SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
just got a reply from Gyathaar, he says permanent alliances are enabled, but that he has never heard of anyone getting one with more than a single civ.
just posting that for everyone's edification
I'll take a look at the save later and post my got it later...I've got both school and work first today.
just posting that for everyone's edification
I'll take a look at the save later and post my got it later...I've got both school and work first today.
A lot of the AI's cities are coastal and a couple frigates will be faster than using ship space for Cats. If we have the money to upgrade the knights in Lodestone to Cossacks, Maos 2 peninsula cities can be quickly crushed. I don't know whether we want to take the risk of losing Montis vote in the initial ballot though. We should start buiding an Eastern fleet to take Fred and Salids 4 Cities. Then instead of getting bogged in the middle with Huanya or someone else (unless vickie does most of it for us), I would start building a fast hitting force to take out as many of Tokus small lightly defended cities as we can. ..This is all AFTER we get him in a UN vote and evaluate whether we can win with him as #2.
Where do you find the info on votes in the stats? 1029? Maybe I am missing a part of the statistics but have only been able to work on % of Pop. How are you converting to votes?
That makes things problematic. Our closest Allies are no longer the strongest and I am not sure we want to attach ourselves to a whithering vine.
Mansa or possibly Hattie would help with the Eastern block and might be worth considering for a PA.
Where do you find the info on votes in the stats? 1029? Maybe I am missing a part of the statistics but have only been able to work on % of Pop. How are you converting to votes?
Go to victory conditions - it's one of the screens under that, tells you what UN votes have passed, and for the ones that haven't it tells you both the total number of votes and the number required to win that vote. I'm assuming the number of votes each civ has is the same as the pop figure you added up, which I think is at least approximately correct (may be exactly correct, seems to be confirmed by the total votes that it gives being very close to the figure you gave - I'd have thought easily within the margins of reasonable error when manually adding up hundreds of cities
).
That's an excellent idea! I'll go for that. So we build some frigates, we don't build cats.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
In terms of bringing city defences down this is true. However it's of no use when you want to weaken the defenders.
Yes, we can do that. Still I would bring 1 or 2 cats promoted with collateral damage. They can weaken the defenders and reduce our losses which the frigates can't do. Anyhow it cannot hurt to build up our navy to make us even more secure against attacks from AIs.
Htadus
A and L's dad
O yes. I can taste the blood already. I am with Markh about having way too many civs for a diplomatic game. By the way the Galleon just got back has a Knight and a cat inside. Add another unit and let them follow the English forces. Who knows we might join in as a favor to our bud. And may be get the opportunity to pick up a weakend city.
BTW what we havenot considered is what would happen if Vickey become our competition. We have a while before the UN is built and any thing can happen in the interim. I think we should definately consolidate all the smaller nations under Russian Banner. Like the bad/good old USSR.
Also the reason I like to take out Toku, is that he has that other forbiden palace built and waiting for us to take over.
BTW what we havenot considered is what would happen if Vickey become our competition. We have a while before the UN is built and any thing can happen in the interim. I think we should definately consolidate all the smaller nations under Russian Banner. Like the bad/good old USSR.
Also the reason I like to take out Toku, is that he has that other forbiden palace built and waiting for us to take over.
That's my kind of man.
I do not think that Vicky will accomplish anything with the forces she is sending. She is just too small to get a shot at the second spot. If she is lucky she gets a city from the weaklings, but that will not be enough to become our opponent.
I would like to have Toku as opponent as we will never get him on our side and I doubt that we can take him out fast enough. We still have a good chance to get Monty on our side.
I would start to take out the smaller ones. This will be quite fast and will not affect our relations considerably.
I do not think that Vicky will accomplish anything with the forces she is sending. She is just too small to get a shot at the second spot. If she is lucky she gets a city from the weaklings, but that will not be enough to become our opponent.
I would like to have Toku as opponent as we will never get him on our side and I doubt that we can take him out fast enough. We still have a good chance to get Monty on our side.
I would start to take out the smaller ones. This will be quite fast and will not affect our relations considerably.
I just had a look at the city spread again. I was trying to find away to predict number 2 in the vote. Even though Toku is number 2 now (He must have just expanded) I don't think he can stay because the majority of his cities are not going to grow much. Monti and Hattie have much better cities-it is just a question of how fast they are growing. I would suggest we do another city count in 10 turns but monitor the victory screen every turn and see when, and who goes in and out of second if Maybe just counting the top 3-4 Civs would be enough. That aside I agree with Htadus that we try and follow Vicki if we can although if she is after the Incan we should just offer to help but sit on the sidelines.
Turn 0(1610AD): Trade Uranium to Mansa for Hit Musicals and 1gpt. Trade Mil. Trad and Mass Media to Mansa for Democracy, Replaceable Parts, WM, and 370 gold. Loaded up troops to take out Frederick. He doesn't even have Longbows yet!
IBT: Nothing
Turn 1(1613AD): Continue moving troops toward Frederick. Take some of the troops in Hittite and start moving toward Louis XIV
IBT: Mao demands Nationalism, I decline
Turn 2(1616AD): I decide that for a 3 turn Anarchy, adopting Emancipation and Univ Suffrage will be able to improve our ability to build the UN faster(we can now rush production with gold)
IBT: Nothing
Turn 3(1619AD): Hittite comes out of revolt, start Theatre
IBT: Nothing
Turn 4(1622AD): Nothing
IBT: Nothing
Turn 5(1625AD): Revolution complete. Cottaged land will now advance at double speed, we get +1 hammer for each town, and we can use gold to rush production
IBT: Nothing
Turn 6(1628AD): Land troops at Berlin. Unfortunately, Frederick discovered Feudalism 2 turns before we arrived...
IBT: Nothing
Turn 7(1631AD): Biology>Steam Power. I put science to 0%, we can trade Biology to Mansa(who has no chance of reaching #2 in pop) for Rifling. I tried to gift it to Toku, but he's backward and we'll have to gift him like 3 techs before we coudl gift him Biology...I'll leave it up to the team to decide what to do there. Also, the reason I moved to Univ. Suffrage...we can put science to 0% for about 15 or 16 turns and that might give us enough cash to rush the UN! Or at least, that's my estimate...is that we can finish in it about half the time it would have taken otherwise.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 8(1634AD): Bombardment of Berlin begins
IBT: Julius offers Marble for Stone, I accept
Turn 9(1637AD): Bombardment of Berlin continues.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 10(1640AD): Bombardment of Berlin finishes. Attacks commence. 3 Longbows die at the loss of a single knight.
Summary: Fairly uneventful turnset. I've got troops surrounding Berlin and Hamburg. We've got Cossacks being built back home we could use to take out Mao. There's some troops in a galleon near Louis XIV. The only friend we have that would mind us declaring war on him is Monty.
Gandhi and Mansa are friendly with us now, Monty is pleased but at +12, Julius, Hatty, and Vicky are all pleased, but all are below +8...I don't know that we can rely on their votes right now.
The UN could perhaps be built during the next turnset if we did some good tech trades for cash and our GNP continues to grow. If we trade Mansa and Vicky Biology, they would both be able to increase in pop quickly, but neither look capable of going to #2, so they'd be more votes for us. At the same time, finishing off Mao, Frederick, and perhaps taking out Louis XIV should give us enough votes to win on the first election as long as we are able to woo Vicky, Julius, and Hatty higher in friendship...perhaps a fake mutual between the 4 of us and Huayna.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 1(1613AD): Continue moving troops toward Frederick. Take some of the troops in Hittite and start moving toward Louis XIV
IBT: Mao demands Nationalism, I decline
Turn 2(1616AD): I decide that for a 3 turn Anarchy, adopting Emancipation and Univ Suffrage will be able to improve our ability to build the UN faster(we can now rush production with gold)
IBT: Nothing
Turn 3(1619AD): Hittite comes out of revolt, start Theatre
IBT: Nothing
Turn 4(1622AD): Nothing
IBT: Nothing
Turn 5(1625AD): Revolution complete. Cottaged land will now advance at double speed, we get +1 hammer for each town, and we can use gold to rush production
IBT: Nothing
Turn 6(1628AD): Land troops at Berlin. Unfortunately, Frederick discovered Feudalism 2 turns before we arrived...
IBT: Nothing
Turn 7(1631AD): Biology>Steam Power. I put science to 0%, we can trade Biology to Mansa(who has no chance of reaching #2 in pop) for Rifling. I tried to gift it to Toku, but he's backward and we'll have to gift him like 3 techs before we coudl gift him Biology...I'll leave it up to the team to decide what to do there. Also, the reason I moved to Univ. Suffrage...we can put science to 0% for about 15 or 16 turns and that might give us enough cash to rush the UN! Or at least, that's my estimate...is that we can finish in it about half the time it would have taken otherwise.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 8(1634AD): Bombardment of Berlin begins
IBT: Julius offers Marble for Stone, I accept
Turn 9(1637AD): Bombardment of Berlin continues.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 10(1640AD): Bombardment of Berlin finishes. Attacks commence. 3 Longbows die at the loss of a single knight.
Summary: Fairly uneventful turnset. I've got troops surrounding Berlin and Hamburg. We've got Cossacks being built back home we could use to take out Mao. There's some troops in a galleon near Louis XIV. The only friend we have that would mind us declaring war on him is Monty.
Gandhi and Mansa are friendly with us now, Monty is pleased but at +12, Julius, Hatty, and Vicky are all pleased, but all are below +8...I don't know that we can rely on their votes right now.
The UN could perhaps be built during the next turnset if we did some good tech trades for cash and our GNP continues to grow. If we trade Mansa and Vicky Biology, they would both be able to increase in pop quickly, but neither look capable of going to #2, so they'd be more votes for us. At the same time, finishing off Mao, Frederick, and perhaps taking out Louis XIV should give us enough votes to win on the first election as long as we are able to woo Vicky, Julius, and Hatty higher in friendship...perhaps a fake mutual between the 4 of us and Huayna.
That sounds excellent!
One point (made without looking at the game so I don't know how much sense this makes...) It sounds like we're still a turnset or two away from conquering enough to get enough votes for a diplo win. If that's the case, then building the UN much faster isn't going to help us (other than telling us about people's voting intentions). If we can get lots of gold, would it be better to use it to buy more units faster, so we can complete the process of upping our population faster (and maybe synchronize that better with completing the UN)?
One point (made without looking at the game so I don't know how much sense this makes...) It sounds like we're still a turnset or two away from conquering enough to get enough votes for a diplo win. If that's the case, then building the UN much faster isn't going to help us (other than telling us about people's voting intentions). If we can get lots of gold, would it be better to use it to buy more units faster, so we can complete the process of upping our population faster (and maybe synchronize that better with completing the UN)?
btw I'm now utterly confused about who's turnset it is 
Mark's?
Mark's?And we are off to the races! Good Job!
I don't think I understand the full use of and results of the civics changes other than the gold rushing. I don't think I have ever been in either in my limited CIV career. 
How are Maintenance costs going to effect us with cities so far away? I also think we will have to keep more troops in Fred's, Louis"s cities than we would if we were closer to home. We will have a huge reaction time with the distances involved if someone wants to take over one of our new cities.
I don't think I understand the full use of and results of the civics changes other than the gold rushing. I don't think I have ever been in either in my limited CIV career. How are Maintenance costs going to effect us with cities so far away? I also think we will have to keep more troops in Fred's, Louis"s cities than we would if we were closer to home. We will have a huge reaction time with the distances involved if someone wants to take over one of our new cities.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Thrallia said:
Weren't we thinking of gifting Hittite to Toku? Or are we just building it up a bit before we gift it?
As I wrote a little earlier, I am a little skeptical that Toku can stay #2. I haven't looked at the new save yet but would wager he has slipped behind Monti or Hattie. The question then is should we hold off gifting the city until we are about to get UN and are certain the pop will get him elected #2. If Thrallia's assertions that we have cut the UN build time to 10 turns or so is correct then there is a greater likelyhood that gifting the city will keep him in #2. I want to do a city/population count as soon as I can down load the save this evening and see how it compares to 10 turns ago.
Better half not home yet so couldn't wait. Here are the city/pop numbers. My guess was right in that Monti is now #2 at 8%(must be a default minimum). We are at 16.94%. Here is the before and present breakdown:
Now: 10Turns Ago: change:
Geezers 15(183) 14(166) 17
Toku 12(91) 12(89) 2
Hattie 9(89) 9(86) 3
Monti 12(95) 12(87) 8
Not scientific but Hittite is at 4? I am not sure we can save Toku for #2
Here are the city/pop numbers. My guess was right in that Monti is now #2 at 8%(must be a default minimum). We are at 16.94%. Here is the before and present breakdown:Now: 10Turns Ago: change:
Geezers 15(183) 14(166) 17
Toku 12(91) 12(89) 2
Hattie 9(89) 9(86) 3
Monti 12(95) 12(87) 8
Not scientific but Hittite is at 4? I am not sure we can save Toku for #2
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