SGOTM 03 - Geezers

We are now into a part of CIV I have very little experience. Someone said +8 gets us votes.

This game settings say 'aggressive AI' so that probably moves the bar up a bit. I think the value you quote may refer more to being certain of the vote rather than being the value you need to reach before they'll vote for you. However I stand to be corrected by those more knowledgeable than myself.
 
Wow, exciting happenings!

It's 1.45 am here so I'll download the save and take a look at it tomorrow.
 
Eventhough I am against giving Hittite to Toku, I can see the advantage of letting him take it for the possibility of him being our competition at least during the first vote after bing elected. This will give us an idea of how civs that are friendly to us vote. We may have to go full on monger. So sooner we know sooner we can start the process.

The other thing is if our non-block friends do not vote for us against Toku, then we turn around and take Toku (since he is the nearest) down because that way at least we get those votes for our victory.

(I have been practicing my mongering skills recently on early GOTM's and find Cav's (Cossaks) are still as good as they were in C3.)

But lets try the bribe method first.
 
I'd suggest Bribing Julius into war with Louis XIV in exchange for Biology ;) if he's willing to, that is.

We should definitely trade/gift Bio to Gandhi and Mansa...neither have a shot at being #2, so any extra pop they get will go towards us.

I agree that we should take down Mao before Louis...Mao is down and out and his cities won't cost too much extra to maintain for us.
 
And another one bites the dust. :D Nicely done mark. :goodjob:

I see both Ghandhi & Mansa are friendly with us as well. :) Ghandhi is willing to trade Communism which enables PAs.

Somehow I feel like the executioner of the team. Both dead AIs died during my sets. :)

BTW we still have a Great Artist in Athens. He would take turns from communism. If we trade for commie I do not know what he would lightbulb next. Fascism ?

As already mentioned please be careful with our troops on our homeland. There has to come something from Toku by sea. If we go for Mao next please don't ship all units over unless we make peace with Toku.
 
I'd suggest Bribing Julius into war with Louis XIV in exchange for Biology ;) if he's willing to, that is.

If we're going to bribe Julius then we may be better waiting until we know whether we need to attack Toku.

OTOH I did suggesting gifting him Biology earlier so if we did that we would need to bribe him with something else. However I originally suggested biology because it seemed the safest tech, from our point of view, for him to have.

I think I'm getting :confused:
 
We are now into a part of CIV I have very little experience. Someone said +8 gets us votes.

+8 is a figure I've seen in the forums a couple of times in this regard. In reality I'm not sure anyone has that much of a precise idea how to guarantee votes, short of that the more pleased they are with you the more likely they are to vote for you.

If we are going to bribe AIs can we do things like cancel a commodity trade and gift the commodity? Will that get us a +1? Also how much $ do we have to gift to get a +1? I was hoping a win by diplo would have more options for manipulating the AI. From what I am learning we still need to Bash most of the CIVs to get a Diplo vote:sad:

That's partly because there's so many civs on this map and hence so many you'd otherwise need to please simultaneously - which is difficult. (Especially as one of the key weapons in pleasing an AI is to change to its favourite civic, but different AI's favourite civics don't coincide...). But even so it is true to some extent that diplo wins are a lot easier with bashing lots of civs. IMO civ still has some design flaws that favour warmongering too much :sad:
 
Somehow I feel like the executioner of the team. Both dead AIs died during my sets. :)

BTW we still have a Great Artist in Athens. He would take turns from communism. If we trade for commie I do not know what he would lightbulb next. Fascism ?

At this stage lightbulbing rarely saves more than a couple of turns, I'd prefer to use the great artist to create a great work somewhere where either it's strategically advantageous to us in terms of helping some war or where we stand a chance of flipping a nearby city or two (EDIT: Or even: Causing an opponent's city to starve coz half its food tiles go into our culture)

As already mentioned please be careful with our troops on our homeland. There has to come something from Toku by sea. If we go for Mao next please don't ship all units over unless we make peace with Toku.

Understood :)
 
Fifth Element has a writup in the Mid-game spoiler. They got religious discovering Judaism and basically avoided war until 500AD
 
In my test games I founded Judaism 100% of all tries IF I founded Moscow on the starting spot. I would have bet that some teams would have gone for a religion with that starting position.:)
 
I expected as much as well...I essentially wrote off religion when we decided to settle Moscow as more production oriented than commerce oriented...I do wish we'd gotten the Pyramids though.

Religion would have been a stronger weapon for Fifth Element if they had managed to found many of the later religions as well...that would have protected them from the conversions of Hatty and Mao.

btw, how's the spoiler coming, Simon? ;)
 
Fifth Element has a writup in the Mid-game spoiler. They got religious discovering Judaism and basically avoided war until 500AD

Mmmm. Looking at the standard of the write ups so far I must say that i'm quite glad that DynamicSpirit 'volunteered' to write ours. :D There's nothing like leaving certain tasks to those more experienced. :)
 
I'm not sure how to best deal with Toku, we want him to be #2 in pop for our votes, as we really don't want Hatty or Monty to be the opponent, but at the same time, it gives us a great chance to vastly improve our population if we were to go after him hard.

I think Gypsy Kings is going to conquering route from the way their score has increased so much...I hope for us to be able to win in truly diplomatic style. With a lot of luck, Simon can get the win for us during his turnset ;)

I think that would require a mutual war modifier with Hatty and with Julius to have any hopes of succeeding...either that or the luck of finding that they both have the same favorite civic that we can change to.
 
If you noticed Fifth element did a good job sanitizing their screenies. Those sneaky devils.:devil: :devil: :lol:
 
Wow, talk about having a turnset with lots of decisions :)

I will play one or two turns soon - just to get the UN secretary general vote so I can post up the voting figures. I'm really undecided on what to do militarily, although the first couple of turns are just going to be healing units anyway. I agree with Sam about building theatres in the ex-German cities. On Hittite, I'd be inclined to keep it until the secretary general vote, and if then we see that Toku is only just short of being our opponent, try and get him to have it. Otherwise take out Toku.

I'm nervous about actively joining the Napoleon war. I just used the preturn to move a caravel to look at Orleans: It has a grenadier and a cavalry in it (along with two longbows, a musketeer and a maceman). My instinct says our forces in Germany, with upgrades, could take that but they'll be sufficiently weakened that we'd struggle to take any other French cities afterwards without reinforcements. And it'll take our Germany ships 4 turns to get there. @Mark: Did you notice whether any other possible opponents have less advanced forces so we can take their cities more easily? We have a fair few forces on our mainland, and I don't like leaving them there doing nothing but as Mark said we don't know what Toku is doing. I could try taking some cavalry to Japan and have them pillage production improvements (but not food improvements) so we stop Toku producing units without making him lose population? (EDIT: Or attack his cities, but always just stop short of taking them once he has only one defender)

Also, thinking about Civics/Religions. These could be crucial in getting us votes:

Of the Civs we are currently courting: Favourite Civics are:
Mansa: Free Market
Julius: Representation
Vicky: Representation
Gandhi: Universal Suffrage
Monty: Police State

Outside Chance (but not much chance probably):
Hatty: Hereditary Rule
Cyrus: Representation
Issy: Police State
Washington: Universal Suffrage

To me that suggests that representation is going to be the most favourable civic change from the POV of maximizing votes. We'll lose +2 on Gandhi by swapping but that'll only take us down to +10 with him, my hunch is he'll still vote for us with +10. My hunch is also that Vicky will vote for us anyway but we'll need representation or some other bonus to get Julius on-side. There may be an argument for trying hereditary rule to see if we can sway Hatty, but we may lose Julius by doing that.

I think getting Hatty on-side may be achievable. Maybe if we joined her war with Huayna (which has the + that we can get our forces there quite quickly), and he should be stretched militarily, but the - that he has grenadiers, and used missionaries to spread Christianity in Egypt than bribed Hatty to convert, then converted ourselves too, helping our relations with Vicky/Julius/Gandhi, perhaps enough that we can afford to adopt hereditary rule without losing any of their votes.

I think Cyrus, Issy and Washington are probably no-hopers.
 
Hatty might be lost to us, unfortunately, she is only +4 with us. We'd need to join her in war, gift her some tech, and change to her favorite civic to hope to gain her vote, most likely. The good news is the + for war would likely be +2, gifting tech would give +1, and her favorite civic would be anywhere from +1 to +4.

On the other hand, if we change to representation, we'll gain points with both Vicky and Julius, and if we gift a tech to Julius(Biology?), and then get a mutual war bonus with him(gift electricity for war on Toku or Louis?), then we'll be assured of both Vicky and Julius's votes.

We should also trade Bio to Mansa for whatever he's willing to offer us...perhaps trade Bio to Gandhi as well to get him some extra population as well. Every extra pop created by Mansa and Gandhi will help us win...and with some careful manuevering, any extra pop gained by Vicky, Julius, (hopefully) Monty, and Hatty may help us as well.

I'd say try to do all we can with hatty except the Civic change, we need that for Vicky and Julius...not to mention, Cyrus is representation as well, so there's an outside chance that doing that and gifting him some tech/bribing him into mutual war, could also get him on our side.
 
My vote is to forget louis for now bring everything to take out Mao -keep 4-5 Frigates North ready if Toku actually comes at us- It may have just been us being too close to him when we took Hittite. Court Hattie and try and keep JC and Vicki happy until we know how the UN vote is going. Once we find where we need to get our votes then work it as fast as possible. In all cases we will most likely be going against 1-2 more AI. That means Frigates, Galleons,Cossacks and Cannons. The more and quicker we have them the sooner we can win the vote:hammer: :D
 
This is quite funny. I was trying to figure out why Vicky sent her invasion fleet practically round the world to attack Louis when he's only 8 tiles from her borders. Realized she doesn't have the open borders she needs to get to him directly. But he does - he could easily launch a counter attack on her territory, if he has the forces to do so.

Stupid AI ;)
 
Hatty's forces in Alexandria are looking decidedly weak (2.9-strength mace, 1.5-strength longbow). I wonder if she's losing the Huayna war (if so she might not be in the running for being our opponent in the diplo vote much longer). That also means if we declare on Huayna, we might be in the running to pick up a recently captured ex-Egypt city without upsetting Hatty! I might user our OB with Hatty to station a couple of troops round there just in case the opportunity arises...
 
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