SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Well it looks like we can get Hatty to join us in war with Napoleon, which'll give us a diplo bonus from her. Julius, Cyrus and Washington all have enough on their hands right now. I agree with Thrallia that war with Napoleon is going to be the best way, but it's going to be difficult since we don't yet have enough artillary there and we're not running any civic that'll allow us to rush any more 
@Thrallia: Is there any reason why you picked Napoleon for the next war rather than Kublai, other than that Napoleon is smaller and therefore presumably easier to take out? Looks to me like none of our friends like either of them, so we can declare on either one or both of them without diplo penalties.
btw while looking round the map to plan my turnset I've just extorted all of Kublai's gold (350) and Napoleon's (1320 I think) which gives us enough in the bank to get industrialization (tanks) in 5 turns
@Thrallia: Is there any reason why you picked Napoleon for the next war rather than Kublai, other than that Napoleon is smaller and therefore presumably easier to take out? Looks to me like none of our friends like either of them, so we can declare on either one or both of them without diplo penalties.
btw while looking round the map to plan my turnset I've just extorted all of Kublai's gold (350) and Napoleon's (1320 I think) which gives us enough in the bank to get industrialization (tanks) in 5 turns
What are people's thoughts on doing this? It'll lose us 3 turns anarchy but looking at the current state I can't see any way we can sustain a war with Napoleon without doing it, both because of the ability to buy units and because of all the hammers we're currently not getting from all our towns. At present we probably have enough units to take one town of his, but I'd guess no more, and we have very little ability to build additional units in any reasonable timeframe. Buying units has the additional advantage that if we declare on Kublai, we can use unit-buying in Yokohama to quickly relieve him of Samarqand (they share an island). And/or we could buy the theatres, lighthouses, granaries and workboats that some of our newer icebound cities need.
In terms of diplo relations we'd lose +3 wisely chosen civics from
Cyrus (currently +11) we'll prob lose his vote
Vicky (+14) she'll probably still vote for us on +11
Julius (+8) it doesn't look too likely he'll vote for us soon anyway
But we'll gain from
Gandhi (currently +12) - umm, so what.
Washinton (+7) could mean we gain his vote
In terms of diplo relations we'd lose +3 wisely chosen civics from
Cyrus (currently +11) we'll prob lose his vote
Vicky (+14) she'll probably still vote for us on +11
Julius (+8) it doesn't look too likely he'll vote for us soon anyway
But we'll gain from
Gandhi (currently +12) - umm, so what.
Washinton (+7) could mean we gain his vote
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
If we intend staying in Universal Sufferage then why not see if we can pass a resolution to that effect? If we do that then we avoid the three turns of anarchy. 
Is it next turn we get to choose or is that for the vote for SecGen?
EDIT: You have noticed the five galleons we have that are packed with units? To use one of them we would probably need to declare war on Kublai just so we can pass through his waters.
Is it next turn we get to choose or is that for the vote for SecGen?
EDIT: You have noticed the five galleons we have that are packed with units? To use one of them we would probably need to declare war on Kublai just so we can pass through his waters.
Htadus
A and L's dad
We can hope to keep Cyrus with some more underhanded gifting
. But on the other hand with tanks just around the corner, univeral sufferage may give us additional and guarenteed 100+ votes rather quickley;french and mongol cities. Lets wait until we get industrialization before doing anything. May be withing those 5 turns we can get that big idiot JC to come around. There should be one more vote left before Gen Sec vote come up.
. But on the other hand with tanks just around the corner, univeral sufferage may give us additional and guarenteed 100+ votes rather quickley;french and mongol cities. Lets wait until we get industrialization before doing anything. May be withing those 5 turns we can get that big idiot JC to come around. There should be one more vote left before Gen Sec vote come up.
If we intend staying in Universal Sufferage then why not see if we can pass a resolution to that effect? If we do that then we avoid the three turns of anarchy.
Oooh, excellent thinking Sam, I didn't realize a UN vote would by-pass the anarchy. The other thing I'd want to know is whether with a UN vote you still get the diplo bonus for wisely choosing civics (that's important as it may sway Washington, to compensate for the almost certain loss of Cyrus if we swap). It doesn't look to me like we're likely to win the next diplo vote (though we'll be pretty close) so we can probably afford to skip one vote in favour of a universal civic vote.
Ummm, no I hadn't noticed
. I counted the units in the 3 galleons that were near Napoleon's territory, but didn't look at the two that were far away from him - I just assumed they weren't part of the invasion force. I'll recheck when I next open the save (currently on the wrong computer) to see how it changes the picture. If the additional units are mainly artillery then I'd say that should suffice to knock out Napoleon, if they're mainly cossacks then it may not be enough. My current instinct is still to get universal suffrage so we can 'do' Kublai. Agree with Htadus about getting tanks first though.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
That, I regret to say, I do not know. However Cyrus will also be running US. Whether that will make any difference is another matter.
Turns out from playing we do still get the diplo bonus
Summary:
Louis has been eliminated. We are now at war with Huayna (troops on their way. I think 1 warrior will be enough to finish him off ) and Arabia (on Hatty's request, troops for Arabia in ex-France waiting to heal). We have the universal suffrage global civic, which has lost us Cyrus vote, although we're bordering on getting it back. Thanks to US, our new cities in the North now have their population infrastructure and are growing.
To win now, we most likely either need to win over Cyrus and Hatty, or take out Arabia, Mongolia and Inca and grow a bit. Arabia and Inca shouldn't be a problem but Kublai has artillery which is going to be tough.
Turn-by-turn:
Preturn: Extorted about 1600 gold from Napoleon and Kublai. Orleans contains: Grenadier, 3 rifles, cavalry. Lyons: 3 rifles, worker
IBT: Select Universal Suffrage global civic as the UN vote. Mansa Musa completes Eiffel Tower.
Turn 421/1811AD: Discover Paris has mass of units in. 3 frigates, 4 galleons, caravel, settler, cannon, 9 rifles, cavalry, scrollbar. Beshbalik: 7 rifles, settler
IBT: Vicky offers industrialization + 180 gold for mass media. I accept - shaves 3 turns off getting it. Universal Suffrage vote passes with 859 votes from us, Mansa, Vicky, Gandhi, Issy, Washington, Monty.
1812AD: Set Research to computers (path to armoured infantry + genetics) but on 0%. So we are making 919 gpt. Start buying things: Give Hatty Electricity to declare on Louis. Declare on Louis ourselves. Make loads of changes to production now we can buy things. Generally, granaries/lighthouses etc. in any cities that don't have them, forges/happy buildings in some of our home cities that have grown into unhappiness, military units in cities near France and Mongolia.
IBT: Huayna demands biology from us. He's visibly shaking. I refuse. Vicky declares on Huayna
1813AD: Lyons falls. Move boats in there to upgrade to transports/destroyers so they can transport excess units to mainland safely. Turfan: 2 frigates, 3 galleons, worker, settler, 2 artillery, 3 rifles, cavalry . Sell Cyrus radio for 1450 gold. Sell Gandhi assembly line for 1180 gold, world map, and him declaring war on Kublai. Gift Caesar radio (he's cautious now we're no longer running his favourite civic, trying to make him pleased)
1814: Samarqand contains 2 rifles, worker
IBT: UN sec gen vote.
1815: Capture Orleans.
IBT: We win sec general, with 987 votes of 1299. For us: Geezers (445), Cyrus (89), Mansa (86), Hatty (94), Julius (85), Vicky (61), Gandhi (69), Washington (58). For Monty: Saladin (25), Louis (14), Huayna (3), Kublai (82), Monty (126). Abstain: Issy (62)
Cski: Drydock
1816: Nothing of interest
IBT: Nothing
1817: I declare on Huayna. (a) to get the diplo bonus from Cyrus and Vicky, both currently at war with him, and (b) if we wipe him out, which neither Cyrus nor Vicky seem to be managing, we might be able to get Cyrus and Vicky to join us in a war with Kublai. Gift Hatty combustion. Sell her marble for 1gpt
IBT. Saladin declares on Hatty. Several cannon damage our stack by Paris - enough to stop us attacking the city this turn.
1818. Ning hsia has artillery, 2 rifles, SAM infantry, 2 workers. Extort 12 gpt tribute from Kublai
IBT: Nothing
1819. Our artillery and a cossack pick off 4 riflemen in Paris.
IBT: BIG DECISION. Hatty asks us to join her war against Arabia. I know this could secure us Hatty's vote but I don't know if any of our other friends like Saladin. So I do something that I hope is legal in the competition (seems in the spirit of it): I left Hatty waiting in the diplo window, and copied an autosave to a different computer so I could open it and look at the diplo relations. Turns out Washington likes Saladin, but I judged Hatty's vote is more likely than Washington's so acceded to Hatty's request and declared war.
Diplo win vote:
We got 677 votes, required 819 of 1316
For Monty:
126 Monty (+4 towards us)
For us:
458 Geezers
87 Mansa (+15)
61 Vicky (+12)
71 Gandhi (+16)
Abstentions
89 Cyrus (+9)
95 Hatty (+8. Oooh I hate you Hatty. After all we've done for you!)
85 Julius (+5)
63 Issy (+3)
25 Saladin (-15)
10 Louis (-22)
60 Washington (+7)
2 Huayna (-18)
84 Kublai (-18)
1820: Paris is liberated and the French are no more. See Louis, that's what you get for not voting for us... I discover that Huayna has only one rifle defending Vitcos - should be easy for us to take.
Louis has been eliminated. We are now at war with Huayna (troops on their way. I think 1 warrior will be enough to finish him off
) and Arabia (on Hatty's request, troops for Arabia in ex-France waiting to heal). We have the universal suffrage global civic, which has lost us Cyrus vote, although we're bordering on getting it back. Thanks to US, our new cities in the North now have their population infrastructure and are growing. To win now, we most likely either need to win over Cyrus and Hatty, or take out Arabia, Mongolia and Inca and grow a bit. Arabia and Inca shouldn't be a problem but Kublai has artillery which is going to be tough.
Turn-by-turn:
Preturn: Extorted about 1600 gold from Napoleon and Kublai. Orleans contains: Grenadier, 3 rifles, cavalry. Lyons: 3 rifles, worker
IBT: Select Universal Suffrage global civic as the UN vote. Mansa Musa completes Eiffel Tower.
Turn 421/1811AD: Discover Paris has mass of units in. 3 frigates, 4 galleons, caravel, settler, cannon, 9 rifles, cavalry, scrollbar. Beshbalik: 7 rifles, settler
IBT: Vicky offers industrialization + 180 gold for mass media. I accept - shaves 3 turns off getting it. Universal Suffrage vote passes with 859 votes from us, Mansa, Vicky, Gandhi, Issy, Washington, Monty.
1812AD: Set Research to computers (path to armoured infantry + genetics) but on 0%. So we are making 919 gpt. Start buying things: Give Hatty Electricity to declare on Louis. Declare on Louis ourselves. Make loads of changes to production now we can buy things. Generally, granaries/lighthouses etc. in any cities that don't have them, forges/happy buildings in some of our home cities that have grown into unhappiness, military units in cities near France and Mongolia.
IBT: Huayna demands biology from us. He's visibly shaking. I refuse. Vicky declares on Huayna
1813AD: Lyons falls. Move boats in there to upgrade to transports/destroyers so they can transport excess units to mainland safely. Turfan: 2 frigates, 3 galleons, worker, settler, 2 artillery, 3 rifles, cavalry . Sell Cyrus radio for 1450 gold. Sell Gandhi assembly line for 1180 gold, world map, and him declaring war on Kublai. Gift Caesar radio (he's cautious now we're no longer running his favourite civic, trying to make him pleased)
1814: Samarqand contains 2 rifles, worker
IBT: UN sec gen vote.
1815: Capture Orleans.
IBT: We win sec general, with 987 votes of 1299. For us: Geezers (445), Cyrus (89), Mansa (86), Hatty (94), Julius (85), Vicky (61), Gandhi (69), Washington (58). For Monty: Saladin (25), Louis (14), Huayna (3), Kublai (82), Monty (126). Abstain: Issy (62)
Cski: Drydock
1816: Nothing of interest
IBT: Nothing
1817: I declare on Huayna. (a) to get the diplo bonus from Cyrus and Vicky, both currently at war with him, and (b) if we wipe him out, which neither Cyrus nor Vicky seem to be managing, we might be able to get Cyrus and Vicky to join us in a war with Kublai. Gift Hatty combustion. Sell her marble for 1gpt
IBT. Saladin declares on Hatty. Several cannon damage our stack by Paris - enough to stop us attacking the city this turn.
1818. Ning hsia has artillery, 2 rifles, SAM infantry, 2 workers. Extort 12 gpt tribute from Kublai
IBT: Nothing
1819. Our artillery and a cossack pick off 4 riflemen in Paris.
IBT: BIG DECISION. Hatty asks us to join her war against Arabia. I know this could secure us Hatty's vote but I don't know if any of our other friends like Saladin. So I do something that I hope is legal in the competition (seems in the spirit of it): I left Hatty waiting in the diplo window, and copied an autosave to a different computer so I could open it and look at the diplo relations. Turns out Washington likes Saladin, but I judged Hatty's vote is more likely than Washington's so acceded to Hatty's request and declared war.
Diplo win vote:
We got 677 votes, required 819 of 1316
For Monty:
126 Monty (+4 towards us)
For us:
458 Geezers
87 Mansa (+15)
61 Vicky (+12)
71 Gandhi (+16)
Abstentions
89 Cyrus (+9)
95 Hatty (+8. Oooh I hate you Hatty. After all we've done for you!)
85 Julius (+5)
63 Issy (+3)
25 Saladin (-15)
10 Louis (-22)
60 Washington (+7)
2 Huayna (-18)
84 Kublai (-18)
1820: Paris is liberated and the French are no more. See Louis, that's what you get for not voting for us... I discover that Huayna has only one rifle defending Vitcos - should be easy for us to take.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
And so DynamicSpirit joins mark as a civ slayer in this SG. 
Plan for this turnset is to finish off Huayna soonest. That WW is something fierce.
Even running @ 100% culture doesn't remove it entirely.
See if I can persuade Cyrus and Vicky to join our war against Saladin. Attack, and hopefully kill, Saladin. However I may need to wait for some extra military.
Plan for this turnset is to finish off Huayna soonest. That WW is something fierce.
Even running @ 100% culture doesn't remove it entirely. See if I can persuade Cyrus and Vicky to join our war against Saladin. Attack, and hopefully kill, Saladin. However I may need to wait for some extra military.
And so DynamicSpirit joins mark as a civ slayer in this SG.
I guess you'll join us next turn. The troops on their way to Huayna should be more than enough to finish off his solitary rifleman. I don't know how many forces Saladin has but he only has two cities so they can't be too many...well...the reason I had figured on Louis is because I thought he'd be easier than Khan.
I'm a tad late, but it looks like we'll have the victory soon enough anyway I would have voted against US because that would lose us Cyrus's vote and by getting a mutual war with Hatty we might have won the game...well hopefully by taking Huayna and Saladin we can finish off this game by gaining Hatty and Cyrus' vote in the next few turns via mutual wars.
I'm a tad late, but it looks like we'll have the victory soon enough anyway
I would have voted against US because that would lose us Cyrus's vote and by getting a mutual war with Hatty we might have won the game...well hopefully by taking Huayna and Saladin we can finish off this game by gaining Hatty and Cyrus' vote in the next few turns via mutual wars.
well...the reason I had figured on Louis is because I thought he'd be easier than Khan.
I'm a tad late, but it looks like we'll have the victory soon enough anyway
Yeah, the switch was a risk, with the potential reward being faster warring to get our population up. I thought the loss of Cyrus would be balanced by gaining Washington, but for some reason Washington only gave us +1 for wisely choosing civics, unlike the +3 that other civs have generally given us. The +1 only brought him up to +8, insufficient to get him to vote for us
Unfortunate that the trick of using a UN vote to achieve the switch means we can't change back now I don't understand why Hatty didn't give us any credit at all for joining a war that she specifically asked us to - I was hoping we'd get a +1 for mutual military struggle and the +1 for agreeing to her request, but she didn't give us either.
We're still getting a lot of -'s including IIRC from Cyrus and Hatty for trading with worst enemies etc. I'm not sure how much longer those will last, but as soon as they go we should get their votes.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Summary
Huayna has gone to reflect the folly of not supporting us. Medina has fallen. Cyrus, Hatty and Washington persist in not seeing the one true way. Relations with Monty have gone downhill.
Turn 430 - 1820 AD
Rush theatre in Lyons.
Turn 431 - 1821 AD
Sparta Bank -> Tank. Rostov Barracks -> Artillery. Lyons Theatre -> Courthouse. Cyrus is up to +10.
Beshbalik - 3 SAM Infantry, 4 Rifles
IBT:
Izzy makes peace with Monty.
Turn 432 - 1822 AD
Edo Artillery -> Tank. Vitcos falls and the Incans are no more. Cyrus falls to +9.
Karakorum - 4 Rifles, 1 SAM Inf, 1 Artillery
Turn 433 - 1823 AD
Satsuma Barracks -> Arillery. Select diplo vote. We currently have 483 votes and require 825. Washington is unhappy about us trading with Kublai.
Turns out we are getting 8gpt as a result of the peace settlement. I can't cancel it for another 5 turns.
Old Sarai - 2 SAM, 2 Rifles, 1 artillery, 1 Cavalry
Medina - 3 Rifles, 2 Camel archers
IBT:
Kublai makes peace with Ghandhi.
Turn 434 - 1824 AD
SP Grocer -> Broadcast Tower. Hittite Barracks -> Artillery. Osaka Artillery -> Tank. We receive the results of the diplo vote:
Trade Mass Media to Cyrus for WM and 130 gold.
Mecca - 7 Rifles, 1 Artillery
Turn 435 - 1825 AD
Moscow Tank -> Tank. Vilcabamba Barracks -> Theatre. Change Yokohama to courthouse.
IBT:
Our caravel is attacked by Sally and dies whilst taking an enemy caravel with it. Kublai demands Electricity. On yer bike!
Turn 436 - 1826 AD
Beijing Tank -> Transport. Guangzhou Cossack -> Tank. Start bombarding Medina. Gift uranium to Washington.
Turfan - 4 Rifles, 2 Artillery, 1 Cavalry
IBT:
Monty cancels the gems deal. Monty demands we cancel deals with Vicky. Ermm, sorry guv.
Turn 437 1827 AD
Coppertownski Transport -> Transport. Lodestone Tank -> Tank. Osaka Tank -> Artillery Kyoto Barracks -> Tank. Lyons Courthouse -> Granary. Orleans Theatre -> Barracks. Select diplo victory. We have 500 votes and require 841. Gift Artillery to Cyrus.
Turn 438 - 1828 AD
Diplo results are below:
Cancel gpt tribute from Kublai.
Turn 439 - 1829 AD
Nanjing Grocer -> Bank. Take Medina without loss after letting Hatty soften it up.
Turn 440 - 1830 AD
Machu Picchu Library -> Barracks. Lyons Granary -> Barracks. Paris Theatre -> Bank.
Somehow I think we've fallen out of favour with Monty.
Hopefully he won't be so misguided as to attack us. Cyrus says he 'has enough on his hands'. Presumably he's going to attack Izzy or Monty eventually. Washington doesn't like us enough to declare war on either Sally or Kublai. I've started moving some transports towards Kublai as it seems certain we're going to have to attack him. The attack on Mecca will have to wait until our troops heal in Medina.
Save
Huayna has gone to reflect the folly of not supporting us. Medina has fallen. Cyrus, Hatty and Washington persist in not seeing the one true way. Relations with Monty have gone downhill.
Turn 430 - 1820 AD
Rush theatre in Lyons.
Turn 431 - 1821 AD
Sparta Bank -> Tank. Rostov Barracks -> Artillery. Lyons Theatre -> Courthouse. Cyrus is up to +10.
Beshbalik - 3 SAM Infantry, 4 Rifles
IBT:
Izzy makes peace with Monty.
Turn 432 - 1822 AD
Edo Artillery -> Tank. Vitcos falls and the Incans are no more. Cyrus falls to +9.
Karakorum - 4 Rifles, 1 SAM Inf, 1 Artillery
Turn 433 - 1823 AD
Satsuma Barracks -> Arillery. Select diplo vote. We currently have 483 votes and require 825. Washington is unhappy about us trading with Kublai.
Turns out we are getting 8gpt as a result of the peace settlement. I can't cancel it for another 5 turns. Old Sarai - 2 SAM, 2 Rifles, 1 artillery, 1 Cavalry
Medina - 3 Rifles, 2 Camel archers
IBT:
Kublai makes peace with Ghandhi.
Turn 434 - 1824 AD
SP Grocer -> Broadcast Tower. Hittite Barracks -> Artillery. Osaka Artillery -> Tank. We receive the results of the diplo vote:
Trade Mass Media to Cyrus for WM and 130 gold.
Mecca - 7 Rifles, 1 Artillery
Turn 435 - 1825 AD
Moscow Tank -> Tank. Vilcabamba Barracks -> Theatre. Change Yokohama to courthouse.
IBT:
Our caravel is attacked by Sally and dies whilst taking an enemy caravel with it. Kublai demands Electricity. On yer bike!
Turn 436 - 1826 AD
Beijing Tank -> Transport. Guangzhou Cossack -> Tank. Start bombarding Medina. Gift uranium to Washington.
Turfan - 4 Rifles, 2 Artillery, 1 Cavalry
IBT:
Monty cancels the gems deal. Monty demands we cancel deals with Vicky. Ermm, sorry guv.
Turn 437 1827 AD
Coppertownski Transport -> Transport. Lodestone Tank -> Tank. Osaka Tank -> Artillery Kyoto Barracks -> Tank. Lyons Courthouse -> Granary. Orleans Theatre -> Barracks. Select diplo victory. We have 500 votes and require 841. Gift Artillery to Cyrus.
Turn 438 - 1828 AD
Diplo results are below:
Cancel gpt tribute from Kublai.
Turn 439 - 1829 AD
Nanjing Grocer -> Bank. Take Medina without loss after letting Hatty soften it up.
Turn 440 - 1830 AD
Machu Picchu Library -> Barracks. Lyons Granary -> Barracks. Paris Theatre -> Bank.
Somehow I think we've fallen out of favour with Monty.
Hopefully he won't be so misguided as to attack us. Cyrus says he 'has enough on his hands'. Presumably he's going to attack Izzy or Monty eventually. Washington doesn't like us enough to declare war on either Sally or Kublai. I've started moving some transports towards Kublai as it seems certain we're going to have to attack him. The attack on Mecca will have to wait until our troops heal in Medina.Save
Spoiler :
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Reserved for later.
Sam is now a Civ Slayer too
Perhaps from now on we should try gifting Cyrus a small amount of gold every turn. If we can just get him to vote for us and take out Saladin, that should just give us enough votes.
Perhaps from now on we should try gifting Cyrus a small amount of gold every turn. If we can just get him to vote for us and take out Saladin, that should just give us enough votes.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
I forgot to mention it in my write up but I put in a turn of 90% research into Computers. Computers is 5 turns at 90%.
I think we need to start researching some stuff soon. Partly so that we have some techs available as bribes and partly so that we can get a feel for how near other civs are to space.
I think we need to start researching some stuff soon. Partly so that we have some techs available as bribes and partly so that we can get a feel for how near other civs are to space.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
I think this is the correct roster.
Thrallia
Simon
Mark
Sam- just played
Dagnabit - UP
Htadus- on deck
Thrallia
Simon
Mark
Sam- just played
Dagnabit - UP
Htadus- on deck
Washington will eventually give us a higher bonus from civics...Cyrus and Julius only gave us +1 for civics at first also, but over about 15 turns it went up to +3.
Once Cyrus declares war on someone we should declare as well, and if we can bribe Hatty and Washington into it we should get the victory soon after
Once Cyrus declares war on someone we should declare as well, and if we can bribe Hatty and Washington into it we should get the victory soon after
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