SGOTM 03 - Gypsy Kings

Conquistador 63 · Jan 22, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
I think we need to take a pause and evaluate some options for the fastest way to victory. It looks to me that Diplomatic Conquest is the way to go. We just need to be careful about who we attack, and possibly try to somehow create dissent towards Toku. I honestly can't even believe this is what we are faced with at this point. In all my games of CivIV, I can't ever remember Toku having this many friends.

@C63, Hope you had a great vacation! We're looking for some words of wisdom from you. Also, my wife wants to know where you go for vacation when you live in Brazil? Especially since Brazil is one locale we are looking forward to visting for our own get away!

Off-topic comment @Ronnie1's request

Spoiler :

Now back to the game.

1.Civics: we've built the Kremlin, haven't we? Then I think we should move from Rep to U.S. While there, no need to sacrifice any more pop, it is just what we need most. Then move from slavery to emancipation or caste system? And if 2 or 3 civic changes has the same 3 turns of anarchy, I'd also go for SP, as it looks we'll have a lot of new cities distant from our capitol. And if we're really commited to military expansion now, then Theology is much better suited than OR. Ok, 4 changes may sound excessive. I'll just wait for your opinions on it. I might settle for three changes then.

2.Diplo options. Reading the last posts and viewing the last ballots, I would have tried to keep friends with Toku and try to give captured cities to the most populous non-hindu civ (can't remember which one now). But since we just stopped trading with him, I guess this option is no longer on the table. Just take over cities until the required pop.

3. PA & Mao: is the joint research the only benefit of this PA? Why don't we declare on Mao's neighbours (which aren't voting for us, like Alex) and ask him to attack the desired cities?

4. Tech: after Aline, RR and Combustion ? Then we can build transports and destroyers, needed for island hopping.

5. About new size 1 cities: isn't already acknowledged that 1 pop is less than 0,1% votes now? But I think the burden to our economy will have a much larger impact, as city upkeep is related to the number of cities. I might admit that adding a lot of last minute cities could help marginally, but we will be acquiring a lot of new cities already from conquest, we don't need those settlers now, maybe only when we're close to required self voting pop, IMO.

I still haven't checked the latest save closely for any relevant input on micromanaging, and I pretty much doubt that it will make much difference. I take as final (and perfectly logic) the decision on going for Izzy next. Might just add another front to keep Mao's troops busy. I'll wait for input before playing. :cool:

Ronnie1 · Jan 22, 2007

I'm all for US and Emancipation. Theocracy is definitely better than OR. Free Speech for a Commerce and Culture boost or Vassalage for lots of experienced troops. Free Speech gives us commerce, and the culture boost is nice when conquering. Vas gives 29 free units, it currently costs us 13G/T for 19 Units, so Vas should save us about 20G/T for the 29. I think the # of free units increases with city count, so we gain more as we expand, it might help offset the maintenance cost for the new cities.

We could call for a vote on Emancipation, and possibly save a turn of anarchy, same for Free Speech, but I might favor Vassalage if we plan on warring straight through to 60% pop.

Would forcing Free Religion on the world help us in any voting behavior?

I like the idea of declaring on Alex. It will give Mao something to do while we go after Izzy. I think after Izzy we turn south on Caesar. We can build FP in London and be really solid financially for a huge empire.

I agree that we don't need to found any more cities at this point.

There is some MM I see is possible in the larger cities and possibly on some Wonder building.

Tech path of RR, Combustion is good.

We should stop selling mil techs if we are going to war for the remainder of the game. We have a Military advantage now, we should try to maintain or grow it.

We might want to slow science and use the gold for buying buildings and troops.

Go for it! Finish Vic and head for Izzy.

da_Vinci · Jan 22, 2007

Civics: I think that we can get 3 for 2 turns and maybe 4 for 3, so bulk switching makes sense. US makes sense, as the +3 science per spec from rep might be pretty marginal on the research at this point. Although we may find that the WW demands police state in this column. I think emancipation will be critical, as WW is already high, don't need another -4 from demanding emancipation. Agree with SP. And maybe theology as well.

Not sure we want to give up bureaucracy. Might lose more cash than vassalage gains, esp if we dial back science. Free speech might be useful if it helps expand cities so pop does not stave away ... I don't have experience running that.

Might look at how civic choices could make freinds out of pleased, and get us more votes. My thought was to go get Izzy, but not others near Mao yet in case there is a diplo play with them based on civic manipulations. Attacking Mao's neighbors will create a lot of ill will IIRC (maybe not Caesar so much). Alex is friendly with a lot IIRC, so attacking him would rule out any more diplomatic plays I think. Might still be the thing to do, but just keep that in mind. I still wonder if after Saladin makes his PA, if he will drag his partner into voting for us.

Diplo: Trying to pump someone over Toku in pop did not occur to me as useful ... is it pop or score that matters (althought the two are correlated pretty well). I suppose that would have been Izzy or maybe Khan. Even if Toku would not vote for us, maybe a different voting rival would garner us more votes? I'm too new to this diplo win stuff. But maybe the idea is not off the table.

But how many cities would we have to gift, and if it fails, have to recapture? Seems like that approach is not without risk.

Techs: I like rails to speed logistics (and rail adds a hammer to mines), and combustion is needed for flight, and I like airports to airlift troops to distant lands. The transports and destroyers don't hurt either, and the destroyers can bombard city defenses.

Cities: My thought on the new cities was that they can grow while we are conquering others, so maybe two less cities to capture before we get the win. I'm not sure the additional maint cost will slow us down ... it is distance to cities to capture that is the time obstacle as I see it. If these could get each to size 10 by the time we win, might have been worth it.

Also, we need to get 60% of pop without getting over 50% of land, so I thought that two addtional cities started now, that add no new land, and could grow to a meaningful size would help the back door diplo.

St. Pete is so hammer poor, that about all it is good for making is settlers. So if this logic is convincing, there is also a site west of Bombay that we could settle for no additional land. Is the added maint that big a deal? Maybe we agree to disagree on this point.

As I don't see cash as a problem, I think that we have little need to sell techs for cash, as we can reduce science for cash and still get research done in good time. After we have airports and tanks, I can see shutting down research and winning with art and armor.

Do we really want to spend hammers on wonders that could be spent on the military? Other than Rushmore, I can't see why we need any more world wonders. FP seems redundant if we run state propery, right? Maybe west point in Thebes to go with iron works, or maybe just make the troops right away (we are so superior even without the promotions).

Added culture needs to be watched at the end, as we don't want the last few cities we take to expand us over the land limit for the dom!

What shall we do with 3 GS? Academies? Bulb computers (do we need it?)

dV

Joemama · Jan 23, 2007

I think we are due for a round of civics changes. I would consider police state because it looks like we will be warring a ton.

As much as I would like to try gifting cities, I think the surest path to victory is bashing our way to the U.N. After we are finished, I think I may take a look at a couple of old saves to see if gifting cities would have worked.

How many more techs do you think it will take to win? After Rails, combustion, and flight I think we could set research to 0 and rush buy units. This would allow us to attack on a couple of fronts. We should have a better idea as to how much more war we need after those techs.

It looks to me like we have a decent tech/unit advantage right now. Based on my rough calculations we would need to invade Izzy, Cyrus, Mansa, J.C., Fred, and Wash in order to gain the necessary votes. This is a TON of island hopping. Buying some units may be the best way to set up our second/third fronts.

Conquistador 63 · Jan 23, 2007

OK, after 4 votes, this is a quick recap on civic choices:

1. Gov't: most voted US, and while police state (dV & Joe) could be more useful later, it forbids rushbuying units. US can also be voted by a UN resolution.
2. Legal: Ron suggested Vassalage but also FS? dV says Bureaucracy is fine. I have no clue, so I tend to keep it as is, but I can change upon request.
3. Labor: we're all for Emancipation, I think. Can be voted by UN too.
4. Economy. I'm for SP. dV agrees. I know Ron favors FM, from earlier posts. I guess we can vote single currency to offset that extra trade route.
5. Religion: Theocracy is a consensus I guess. Free religion would be a zero-sum in diplo as Toku and us share the same religion.

I don't think civics will affect diplo relations, since we are already counting almost solely with our own votes. My plan is then change 3 civics: Emancipation (most urgent), SP & Theocracy for 3 turns of anarchy. Then at next opportunity vote US at the UN. All agreed?

I finally looked at last save. There are a lot of cities with unhappiness. We can alleviate it in 2 ways:
1. Culture slider to 10%. It might harm our cash but makes our largest cities way more productive.
2. Requesting ivory from Mao. And while we're there, request the $59/turn he has available. We should also give him the resources he needs. He's our partner, after all.

I also noticed we can build Wall Street in Delhi. It is the only wonder I can think of right now, besides the ones in progress.

Lightbulbing computers is the way to go for the GS at this moment. Of course, that can wait until we want to research that.

ps. @ dV: for UN candidates, it is the pop that matters, it equals the number of votes in the ballots. About diplo penalties for declaring on Alex or someone else, I'll have the check closely, but (except Sal) nobody else is voting for us anymore. What do we have left to lose?

da_Vinci · Jan 23, 2007

Conquistador 63 said:
ps. @ dV: for UN candidates, it is the pop that matters, it equals the number of votes in the ballots. About diplo penalties for declaring on Alex or someone else, I'll have the check closely, but (except Sal) nobody else is voting for us anymore. What do we have left to lose?

Pop gives # of votes, but what determines who is the voting rival? Is that pop, or score?

Don't we still have pleased relations with Capac, Alex, Monte? I think we have higher diplo scores with them than Toku does, so if we could maneuver one or more to friendly with civic choices, maybe we could get their votes? Might be a long shot, but that is what is left for a diplo play I think.

Might not want to declare on a friend of Sal, if we can help it. Maybe we can keep his vote. And Monte just stopped being freinds with Toku, so I would like to see how he votes next before we aggravate him by declaring on a friend.

But since all of these may be longshots, I don't object to ignoring relations and just declaring on who deserves it most

dV

da_Vinci · Jan 23, 2007

Joemama said:
How many more techs do you think it will take to win? After Rails, combustion, and flight I think we could set research to 0 and rush buy units. This would allow us to attack on a couple of fronts. We should have a better idea as to how much more war we need after those techs.

It looks to me like we have a decent tech/unit advantage right now. Based on my rough calculations we would need to invade Izzy, Cyrus, Mansa, J.C., Fred, and Wash in order to gain the necessary votes. This is a TON of island hopping. Buying some units may be the best way to set up our second/third fronts.

I think that tanks and artillery, airdropped to the fronts, should be enough military tech. Maybe gunships if we have nothing better to research. Or, nukes just in case

We could reduce the island hopping by attacking the largest land masses. Then after one city falls, airlift the troops. Don't need an airport in the destination city, only the takeoff city (unlike civ 3 as I recall). Only issue is whether the large land masses put us over the dom land limit. So we might need to take the cities with the least land.

But if taking the large land masses is faster, that is another reason to pack our existing territory with cities ... the sooner that they are built, the more extra pop they will add at the end with no additional land (west of Bombay, anyone?).

But I know I am a voice crying out in the wilderness on this one :lol:

Addendum ... one way to have a different voting rival than Toku would be to cut him down to size, but I have not calculated the diplo impact of that. I'd like to see if we might own 50% of pop (us and Mao) and get another 10% from friends in the vote. Maybe a long shot, but in the short run we can probably keep that option open, until we have an army for a second front.

dV

Joemama · Jan 23, 2007

When looking at the last vote totals as an approximation, we will need to conquer around 6 other civs for the required population. This seems like a pretty daunting task to me. Could a little subtle diplomacy save us some carnage on the battlefield?

If we were to get one off the outcast civs into the vote, would other civs vote differently? I think Khan was the highest population of those not in the old Hindu block. He had 71 votes last time vs. Toku's 101. If we "transfer" Victoria's 42 votes to Khan, I believe he would be our opponent. That is the easy part.

The hard part is figuring who will vote for us then. I don't have the current diplomacy screen in front of me, but if we assume Toku (101 votes) Alex (34 votes) and Monte (74 votes) that would gain us 209 more votes by sacrificing 42 from Vicki.

If the plan does not work, a backup plan if this fails would be to simply retake our gifted cities. Another way would be to buckle down for the spaceship and hope someone else takes the wooden spoon.

Pros: 1. A quicker diplomatic victory.
2. We are certainly not going to lose too many more votes we already have (only Mao and Sally voted with us).
3. I believe as the AI gets close to a space race, they will abstain from voting. The earlier we get other's votes, the less likely they are from abstaining.
4. It would be fun to try a crazy strategy in a game like this.

Cons: 1. Even in this best case scenario, we would probable still need a couple more conquests.
2. We have been less than stellar in predicting AI votes. A backfired plan sets us back an additional 20 or so turns of conquest.

Either way the path looks like invading Vicki and making the civics changes, so I think the next turnset could progress.

da_Vinci · Jan 23, 2007

Joemama said:
When looking at the last vote totals as an approximation, we will need to conquer around 6 other civs for the required population. This seems like a pretty daunting task to me. Could a little subtle diplomacy save us some carnage on the battlefield?

We currently have 32% of pop between us and Mao. Toku has 9%, so if we conquer 4 more civs with an average of 7% of pop, that is the other 28% of pop that we need, provided we don't go over the land limit for dom. That is not as daunting as needing 200 turns to get a space ship launched, I think. Particularly if we can keep Saladin voting for us, and maybe even get one more.

Montezuma's favorite civic is police state, so why not run that, see if it changes him to friendly? Capac's is hereditary rule, oh well! Same for Alex. Caesar is representation. Toku is mercantilism. Just one civ voting for us might mean one less conquest. And, after we tech to flight, not only dial science to 0 but put all specialists on food tile, and grow pop. I'm guessing we win in less than 100 turns.

dV

Conquistador 63 · Jan 24, 2007

I just played my turnset and uploaded the save.

Here is the upload log.

Spoiler :

Here is the shorter version, the autolog.

Spoiler :

In short, Vicky is gone, and Izzy now has 3 cities, we've liberated 4 of her cities. Next player shall finish her easily.

About the civic turnaround: I looked closer and came to a conclusion: we're building troops in just a few cities so I kept OR & Bureau. Moved to US, Emancipation & State Property.

We're now running at 100% science and not losing money, thanks to Mao's generous donations.

In fact, I noticed he always had free $/turn available. I kept taking it until we reached a balance. I thought the commerce would be better run in our hands, since we have lots of universities and such.

Research on RR just done this turn, (workers back from their long vacations), Combustion due in 5 turns.

Unhappiness is not an issue now. Short wars are the name of the game, WW resets when we start a new war with a new civ. BTW, we just declared on Fred by HC's request.

He has only 1 city left, I doubt we'll reach him before the rest of the dogpile. :lol:

Better part is we now have diplo + with Monte and HC from shared war!

MM the fool cancelled our deals. I just wish we had the troops in REgypt to punish him for that. Almost no diplo penalties to DoW him IIRC, but no troops either! I think we should start producing troops on the IW city instead of Eiffel. It has been too easy to get fat cross in conquered cities. Just rushbuy theaters or even produce culture for 2/3 turns. Eiffel seems like overkill to me.

UN: we were appointed secretary again, and in the other vote I proposed +1 trade route, which got an unanimous vote.

Below are attached screenies.

The best news, though is that Toku is trading with us again. Better yet, he is willing to stop trading with a lot of people, including HC and JC, in exchange for Democracy! I still haven't asked, but I think this could be the shortcut for our victory! :cool:

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but that doesn't get us any penalties from the civs with whom Toku stops trading, but instead he gets the penalty! That alone might tip their votes in our favor!

Final thoughts: we need more troops to open new fronts - Mansa and Louis are my preferred next targets. It was my own fault that on my turnset I kept building buildings instead of troops. :blush:

Ronnie1 · Jan 24, 2007

Logistics First

The current roster order is

Conquistador63 - just played
Joemama -UP NOW
Scout214 - on deck
Ronnie1 - in the hole
da_Vinci -waiting

Igelkott - Temporary leave of absence

Confussion - Injured reserve until further notice

@ C63, I love the idea of getting Toku to cancel as many deals as possible! It is brilliant!

I wish I'd have thought of it. :lol:

da_Vinci · Jan 24, 2007

Conquistador 63 said:
The best news, though is that Toku is trading with us again. Better yet, he is willing to stop trading with a lot of people, including HC and JC, in exchange for Democracy! I still haven't asked, but I think this could be the shortcut for our victory! Please correct me if I am mistaken, but that doesn't get us any penalties from the civs with whom Toku stops trading, but instead he gets the penalty! That alone might tip their votes in our favor!

Good work C63! :goodjob:

Appears that Izzy is a poor manager, or Toku has pillaged her to death. Lots of farms and pastures to rebuild.

Diplomatically, Musa, Cyrus and Washington wars hurt us the least. Louis is liked by Capac, Alex, and Monte, and maybe if we get those +12 and +13 up to +14 they will be friendly (go for the wise civics bonus)?

I like the idea of bribing Toku to stop trading with civs who like us! Brilliant! Even better ... could we tempt Toku into declaring on us, by leaving Spanish cities undefended? We could retake them with ease, and that might change the diplo picture with lots of civs! And if not, then at least we don't waste troops on defense!

I can't imagine how we have so many +12 and up relations that are only pleased. Maybe the PA raises the threshold for being friendly? Maybe the aggressive AI setting does? Maybe there is some averaging of score with us and score with Mao that determines the category? Too much unknown game mechanics here. I hate it when the outcome is based on some covert game mechanics ... makes me long for chess!

War weariness resets with war on new civ? That never seemed to be the case in my game, but looking back, I think you have to kill off the first civ you warred with to reset the WW. I think that I have been involved in wars on second civs before first civ destroyed, and WW was horrific. Wish I had known that for GOTM 14, would have finished off the enemy rather than make peace.

Tactical point: be sure that we use naval bombardment to take down city defenses. Clever naval maneuvers can get city defense to 0 by the time the troops complete the march in some cases. Destroyers will be nice for that in 5 turns.

We are almost at 40% pop us and Mao, the stop loss point in the UN. We might want to look at our smaller cities and see if changing mines to windmills, cottages to farms makes any sense to increase pop in them. Also, putting specialists on food tiles will help.

Let's take Musa, Washington and Cyrus, then see where the world stands. At that point, might try a civics play to get wise civics bonus, and see if that puts us over 60%.

I have to figure that everyone is having the same diplomatic obstacles ... who else got the kind of dream religion situation that we did, and even that is not enough! Unless the PA is the obstacle and the quick diplo requires skipping the PA ... we will know in March, won't we!

So if everyone else is in the same boat as we are, then if we push on towards the back door diplo, I think we still have good chances.

dV

Ronnie1 · Jan 24, 2007

I really like the Diplo play with Toku. I definitely think it's worth a shot, see if whoever we can get him to break diplo relations with will vote for us. It may be possible to win on the next vote.

There are not many other points for discussion, we can roll our military through anyone. We just need to watch for the domination limits.

Go Bolshevists!!

da_Vinci · Jan 24, 2007

After we finish off Izzy, if the Fred war (we are at war with him, right?) is not done, lets finish him. Then move troops to the next target but don't declare until in position to strike, as there might be a diplo play involving civic changes to get wise civics bonus, make a DP if we can after friendly, because there is a DP diplo bonus eventually, of +2 in a previous turn. Then might change civics to do the same with a second AI.

This does mean stopping warring, so maybe not worth doing, but something to think about. Maybe we war to 50% and then try some of these diplo moves?

The get Toku to stop trading is a go right away, in any case!

About Fred ... on second thought, do we get shared war diplo bonus if we let it drag out? Maybe we are not in any hurry to finish him off!

If we could get 15% in votes from friends, we are getting close to 45% between us and Mao.

dV

da_Vinci · Jan 24, 2007

CAUTION: My comments on warring with Musa et al may have forgotten the DP situation ... Saladin has two IIRC, and I think one is with Musa. So before following my advice on enemies, double check the DP among the AI.

dV

Joemama · Jan 24, 2007

I played my turns, save uploaded.

I got Toku to stop trading and I think it got us a couple of votes. We need 145 more for the win!

Izzy is no more. I decided to pause here to pick out a new target.

See most recent vote below.

Ronnie1 · Jan 24, 2007

Logistics First

The current roster order is

Joemama - just played
Scout214 - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - on deck
da_Vinci - in the hole
Conquistador63 - waiting

Igelkott - Temporary leave of absence

Confussion - Injured reserve until further notice

Ronnie1 · Jan 25, 2007

Summary of Diplo election results
Sal and HC voted for us
Sal - 54 Votes +14 and Friendly to us, +13F to Mao
HC - 88 Votes +12 and pleased to us, +7F to Mao

The ones who abstained @ the last election.
Cryus - 73 Votes
Musa - 38
Caesar - 77
Fred - 7
Louis - 32
Wash - 40

The 3 that did not vote for us @ the last election.
Alex - 36 Votes +8 and friendly to Toku, +13 pleased to us, +11F to Mao
Kublai Kahn - 77 Votes +4 and pleased, -4A to us, -5 Caut to Mao
Monty - 96 Votes +6 and pleased, +14P to us, +8P to Mao

Current DP's
Sal with Cyrus and Sal with Caesar

The election #'s are somewhat erratic and very unpredictable. Therefore, I think we attack Kublai Kahn next.

It looks like we need to backfill some defensive units so we can move our Artillery towards the next front.

da_Vinci · Jan 25, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
The election #'s are somewhat erratic and very unpredictable. Therefore, I think we attack Kublai Kahn next.

Right now, Capac votes for us. He is F +10 with Khan, so war on Khan may lose his vote. Let's look at other options.

Monte and Capac are at war with Fred. If we leave that war to run as long as possible, perhaps we get increased shared war points with Monte and Capac, to lock in Capac, maybe get Monte.

Voting logic ... does relation to Mao have an effect? Hard to tell. Sal makes sense if +14 is some kind of threshold ... F+14 us, F+9 Toku and votes for us. Did the F+13 with Mao play a role? Don't know.

Why did Capac vote for us? Maybe F+7 with Mao did it, or maybe he is pleased with us and pleased with Toku, so the tiebreak is points difference, which is now 13 (+12 vs -1).

Why didn't Monte vote for us? P+14 us, P+6 Toku and P+8 with Mao. I could see him abstaining, but voting for Toku? There must be something going on that is behind the scenes. If we could get Monte friendly, I think he would vote for us. Then we would be really close. Monte is running police state, vassalage, slavery, free market, theocracy. If we matched him, would that get his vote (wise civics?) That would be almost 100 votes!

Toku would declare war on Capac for communism, physics, biology. That would lock in Capac's vote, wouldn't it? He would declare on Khan for Communism and Physics. but we would still have to get friendly with Kahn ... maybe then join Khan in war on Toku? But Toku is friends with our voting allies.

Well, Toku declaring on Khan would give him "war on our friend" negative with Capac, Alex, Monte, Musa, Sal, Louis.

Toku declaring on Capac would give him "war on our friend" negative with Khan, Alex, Monte, Musa, Sal, Louis, Caesar. So Toku vs Capac may help us most diplomatically.

Washington might be the next target ... not pleased or better with Capac Monte or Sal, our real or potential voting allies. No diplo fallout. Pick up 40 votes, and if we get the 96 from Monte eventually, we are almost there.

Is it time to start maxing food production in our cities (at least the small ones), and squeeze in extra ones where they fit? Wash plus Monte puts us only about 10% away from victory, so could we grow the difference?

Getting Toku to war on Capac should lock him in, irritate Monte re Toku. Then we could feed tech to Capac to fight off Toku. Change civics to match Monte, and maybe we get his vote. Civic change could wait until we are only 90 votes away from the win.

C63, please double check my diplo logic here, and see if I have missed any trade or declare bribes that might help.

Alternative is to go after folks that give us diplo negatives ... I'd save that as a last resort.

A whole different tack is whether we'd rather have Caesar as voting rival. No so clear that will help, and it appears we can poison Toku's relations if we get him to declare wars. But if Caesar is rival, will Toku vote for us? He is friends with Mao.

So I think that war on Wash, bribe Toku vs Capac, maybe feed techs to our voting allies (if we give up some to Toku, why not same to Sal, Capac, Monte?). Or, if we like Toku as rival after the war, then maybe let him take a Capac city to secure him in that role?

After we take out Wash, match Monte civics and see if we can win a vote. If that fails, then consider options, like kill everyone! (Tanks and airports will be in by then). Might match civics with Monte right away, see what effect ... if that gets his vote, then maybe wait on the Toku-Capac war bribe? Or do we jump on that bribe while we have it available?

Ronnie1 said:
It looks like we need to backfill some defensive units so we can move our Artillery towards the next front.

Or, leave the cities empty ... if Toku declares on us, that would help us diplomatically !!

Mao may be in anarchy ... 72 to indust, and he only knocks 1 turn off flight now. In a turn or 2 might add him to flight. Let's get those airports built!

dV

da_Vinci · Jan 25, 2007

Vladovostok is making a barracks, but it will never be a production city. Its purpose was to populate the sea tiles for added pop without added land, so I think it should switch to lighthouse (even goldrush it), then work the maximum food for growth. Already has granary.

Let's buy the workboat in Coventry for 72 gold, then get a granary and lighthouse there.

In Spain, I would build theatres before libraries to pop fat crosses (Madrid). Also, I'd complete the pastures and farms before the rails.

We could put another sea city on the hill 3S 1E of Madrid. I know everyone else disagrees, but if we can buy the granary and lighthouse, it is extra pop over time, for minimal added land. We will wish we had if if we miss a vote by 1% !

Yakutsk, the other city I founded that everyone hates, could work two additional farms (total 3 ... 2 that are exclusive to it and 1 that St. Pete is not working now). It could easily be size 10 before we are done.

Rostov can cut 2 turns off factory (10 to 8) by changing scientists to priests.

Dehli could take 4 turns off wall street (33 to 29) by moving 3 merchants to priests.

Thebes can make artillery in 4, so if we scrap Eiffel (15 t), that is 4 more art. Could we get too much culture? Must keep land below dom limit, so maybe more culture is not necessary?

Gao seems to have solved its cultual problem, so we might put one of the artists on some food tile for growth. I'd put both artists in Memphis on food now. Heliopolis needs to maintain the culture fight.

Might pick some low production cities to make missionaries (Nottigham for example).

We have 4 citizen specialists in London (high overlap with Hastings). I would move 4 of the Hastings citizens to the sea tiles, to allow the 4 London citizens to work the land tiles vacated in the Hastings overlap.

Cordoba needs theatre stat, then workboats, then granary. It could grow really fast (already has Lhouse). Santiago will need a theatre after the granary and lighthouse.

I'd consider cutting science to 90% to allow us to buy these pop growth buildings faster. Spain has a lot of fast pop growth potential.

dV

SGOTM 03 - Gypsy Kings

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Attachments

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Chieftain

Attachments

Deity

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

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