SGOTM 03 - Team One
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Weren`t we considering trying to grab a more expensive tech with liberalism. If so we would need Philosophy. If we could get it before anyone else with our third great person we could found taoism, which would keep the world more united. If it looks like the vote is close we might want biology later to boost our population.
I would refuse any requests for war right now (except perhaps with Isabella)-espesially with Rome, they have praetorians and we don`t have an effective counter. Our military is currently incapable of defending ourselves against a modest attack now let alone capturing a Roman city- a war would be suicide.
A second GP farm would probably not get us any extra GP`s as Moscow will always overwhelm it. A war with Rome would also ruin relations with one of the AI`s who is most friendly towards us.
The gem mines should give us lots of stuff to trade. When the gem mine outside StP completes, I would farm the grassland to connect the rice, although will will not see the benefit until CS.
Hattie is giving us cows for clams, and we now have our own cows, so we might be able to trade the surplus to someone else.
Moscow will pop its border in <10 turns, which gives us the iron outside of argos.
Hattie is giving us cows for clams, and we now have our own cows, so we might be able to trade the surplus to someone else.
Moscow will pop its border in <10 turns, which gives us the iron outside of argos.
mdy said:
Right. I don't see any reson to spend time researching Philosophy, England will probably found Taoism as well and we can trade it then.
mdy said:
I think you overestimate the AI ability to wage war; is it really that much better in Warlords 2.08? If someone asks us, we will be 2 on 1 for a start. I'm not saying we should do it if we were asked right now, but we should consider it when we get closer to Civil Service.
TDK
1 - Exploring
2 - Victoria asks convert Confucianism - No - She cancels OB
3 - Currency in Start Lit
Math for Monotheism +10Gold Frederick
Currency for Calendar +100 Gold Alex
Metal Casting for CoL + 30 HC
MC for Monarchy + 10 Saladin (he offered Meditation but I ignored it)
Currency for HBR + 220 Gold Hatty
6 Start trireme Novgorod - Hinduism spreads in Yuroslavl
Mao Insists no trades with Gandhi - refuse
7 Literature in - Start Machinery
Great Library built in a far away land
9 Meet Monty
10 Give Math to Monty for Cautious + Open Borders for Exploring
Cyrus asks stop trade with Gandhi - No
HC asks stop with Victoria - yes
Monty demands MC - yes
11 - Whip forge in Moscow
Izzy cancels OB
12 - Lahore built on our island
15 - Mao declares WAR!
MC and CoL to Julius Caeser for War vs Mao
17 - Lose a fishing boats to a naval stack
Take out one of Maos triremes
Mao moves his naval stack into Roman territory. Can't see him now.
the non described turns were basically spent exploring. We seem to have a tech lead atm, but it looks like vicky built the GL... Our GE has been born, but I didn't spend him as Machinery was almost done. We could either lightbulb Engineering once we have construction or use him for the National Epic, which will take a very long time to build. We are at war with Mao, but he isn't very threatening as I built enough triremes to defend most of our seafood, and I have rebuilt what we lost.
We need more land defenses now, I think. We have at least an axe most everywhere. Mao has feudalism, so I don't think we're in any position to consider an offensive.
Edit: In hindsight, I think my only mistake was continuing to trade with Gandhi, but I was keeping open borders so as to get through his territory exploring. That refusal was probably the reason that Mao declared. We're not much closer to circumnavigation as the existing routes had played out.
2 - Victoria asks convert Confucianism - No - She cancels OB
3 - Currency in Start Lit
Math for Monotheism +10Gold Frederick
Currency for Calendar +100 Gold Alex
Metal Casting for CoL + 30 HC
MC for Monarchy + 10 Saladin (he offered Meditation but I ignored it)
Currency for HBR + 220 Gold Hatty
6 Start trireme Novgorod - Hinduism spreads in Yuroslavl
Mao Insists no trades with Gandhi - refuse
7 Literature in - Start Machinery
Great Library built in a far away land
9 Meet Monty
10 Give Math to Monty for Cautious + Open Borders for Exploring
Cyrus asks stop trade with Gandhi - No
HC asks stop with Victoria - yes
Monty demands MC - yes
11 - Whip forge in Moscow
Izzy cancels OB
12 - Lahore built on our island
15 - Mao declares WAR!
MC and CoL to Julius Caeser for War vs Mao
17 - Lose a fishing boats to a naval stack
Take out one of Maos triremes
Mao moves his naval stack into Roman territory. Can't see him now.
the non described turns were basically spent exploring. We seem to have a tech lead atm, but it looks like vicky built the GL... Our GE has been born, but I didn't spend him as Machinery was almost done. We could either lightbulb Engineering once we have construction or use him for the National Epic, which will take a very long time to build. We are at war with Mao, but he isn't very threatening as I built enough triremes to defend most of our seafood, and I have rebuilt what we lost.
We need more land defenses now, I think. We have at least an axe most everywhere. Mao has feudalism, so I don't think we're in any position to consider an offensive.
Edit: In hindsight, I think my only mistake was continuing to trade with Gandhi, but I was keeping open borders so as to get through his territory exploring. That refusal was probably the reason that Mao declared. We're not much closer to circumnavigation as the existing routes had played out.
I think you did pretty well with the trading and all the demands. It is always difficult and I think it was a good idea to stick with our current friends. Too bad on the GL. Not much we can do about it now. I personally wouldn't use the GE on National Epic. Also I don't like that Gandhi settled on our island but it had to be expected.
I would research Civil Service next so we can start building Macemen. If we use the GE on Engineering, we can also start building Trebuchets. Or are Cats good enough?
Otherwise I think it is time to build our Army.
Do we want to send a Trireme towards Mao to scout his area?
I would research Civil Service next so we can start building Macemen. If we use the GE on Engineering, we can also start building Trebuchets. Or are Cats good enough?
Otherwise I think it is time to build our Army.
Do we want to send a Trireme towards Mao to scout his area?
The Great Engineer will only research about half of engineering and macemen are probably more valuable to us than trebuchets, I would therefore research civil service next. The National Epic could be completed reasonably quickly in Moscow if we chopp rushed/whipped. The GE could be settled in Moscow for +4 hammers and +11 beakers, which would shorten the time needed to construct the national epic and boost research. The Collosus can be built in St Pete in only 9 turns, maybe it would be worth building this? Alternativly we could use the GE on it. If we continue to run an engineer in Moscow hopefully we will get another GE for the UN.
Hopefully that Indian city will culture flip to us.
Most of the world seems to be in the buddist block, so we should try to keep in with them as much as possible at the expense of the others. Unfortunatly we are at war with China(who will probably never vote for us now) and are allied with a Hindu (Rome), it would probably be a good idea for us if we bought some Buddist allies into the war, before China gets them to declare war on us(Alexander is the biggest worry here).
We should sign open borders with Egypt now.
We need 2 more triemes to defend our seafood. I agree with amh52 that we should send a trieme to scout Mao`s land. The most efficent way to defend against China is to build a defensive atack of about 8 triemes, though this has the disadvantage of leaving us vulnerable to an attack by another power. A land based defense would need more units and be more costly but could better deal with a war with someone else. Which should we go for?
Hopefully that Indian city will culture flip to us.
Most of the world seems to be in the buddist block, so we should try to keep in with them as much as possible at the expense of the others. Unfortunatly we are at war with China(who will probably never vote for us now) and are allied with a Hindu (Rome), it would probably be a good idea for us if we bought some Buddist allies into the war, before China gets them to declare war on us(Alexander is the biggest worry here).
We should sign open borders with Egypt now.
We need 2 more triemes to defend our seafood. I agree with amh52 that we should send a trieme to scout Mao`s land. The most efficent way to defend against China is to build a defensive atack of about 8 triemes, though this has the disadvantage of leaving us vulnerable to an attack by another power. A land based defense would need more units and be more costly but could better deal with a war with someone else. Which should we go for?
We should definitely research CS before Engineering. I had thought the GE would be able to finish Engineering. If not then it is probably not worth it. We should get another GP in Moscow in 6 turns. 90% Scientists. What do we want to do with him? I believe Optics would be his next tech but we might need Compass first.
I am not sure about Colossus as it is only good until Astronomy. It would also be better to build it in Yaroslav to help flip the indian city. But we need a forge first.
I'll try to play tonight.
I am not sure about Colossus as it is only good until Astronomy. It would also be better to build it in Yaroslav to help flip the indian city. But we need a forge first.
I'll try to play tonight.
At the moment a GS will give us compass, using a GS on this seems like a waste as we could easily trade for it later. If we trade for meditation the GS will give us philosophy instead. This would give us a very tradeable tech and taoism, which will keep the world more united. If we don`t go for philosophy I would settle it in Moscow, along with the GE we already have.
T0-AD185 - GE moves towards Moscow
Open border to Hatty
Trade Gems to Toku and Monty for 2/1 Gold/Turn
T1-AD200 - Finish Construction - Start CS
GE joins city
St Pete finishes Trireme, starts Axeman
Trireme moves towards China
T2-AD215
T3-AD230 - Yaroslav finishes Granary, starts Library
T4-AD245 - StPete finishes Axeman, starts Lighthouse
Novgorod finishes Axeman, starts Barrack
T5-AD260 - Trireme plunders chinese fishing nets
T6-AD275 - GS born in Moscow. Joins the city.
T7-AD290
T8-AD305 - Saladin asks for Litt. Accepted.
Gems to HC for Dye
Machinery to Mansa Musa for declaring war on Mao
T9-AD320 - StPete finishes Lighthouse, starts Cat
T10-AD335 - Rostov finishes Library, starts Forge
IBT - Colossus built in far away land
T11-AD350
T12-AD365 - StPete finishes Cat, starts Galley
T13-AD380 - CS - Start Paper, Revolt to Bureaucracy
Novgorod finishes Barrack, starts Maceman
Meet Louis (Hindu) - Open Border and trade Drama for MC
T14-AD395 - JC makes peace with Mao
Give Drama to Toku hoping he will give us OB
StPete finishes Galley, starts Maceman
T15-AD410 - Alex asks to cancel deals with Gandhi. Refused
Monty declares on Fredrick
T16-AD425 - Meet Kublai Khan (Jewish)
IBT - Taoism founded in distant land (Alexandria)
T17-AD440
T18-AD455 - Whip Library in Yaroslav
T19-AD470 - Yaroslav finishes Library, starts Courthouse
Spices to HC for Banana
T20-AD485 - Paper - Start Education
Moscow finishes Nat Epic, starts Theatre
Hinduism spreads in Moscow
Trade World Map to Saladin
We could switch Educ and Theatre in Moscow. Education is probably ok. Otherwise we could do Engineering or Compass (although we should really trade Compass). Instead of Theatre we could do Market, Courthouse, Temple, Barrack or even University of Sankore. I am not sure what is the best order.
I tried to make peace with Mao but he doesn't want to. I haven't tried to give him a tech. I didn't want to do it, not sure if we should.
We could trade Bureaucracy and Paper. Available is Feudalism and Compass. Do we want to give them away already? If we want to go for Liberalism we also need to trade Meditation and Philo.
Our eastern wb has reached the end of the world and is coming back. The western Galley has been trapped between Japanese cities. I got stuck and when I tried to move back Toku just built a city. The Galley was moved back between the 2. I tried to get OB with Toku but it didn't happened.
The military is coming up slowly. Offensively we now have 1 Galley, 1 Cat and 2 Maces are being produced.
Open border to Hatty
Trade Gems to Toku and Monty for 2/1 Gold/Turn
T1-AD200 - Finish Construction - Start CS
GE joins city
St Pete finishes Trireme, starts Axeman
Trireme moves towards China
T2-AD215
T3-AD230 - Yaroslav finishes Granary, starts Library
T4-AD245 - StPete finishes Axeman, starts Lighthouse
Novgorod finishes Axeman, starts Barrack
T5-AD260 - Trireme plunders chinese fishing nets
T6-AD275 - GS born in Moscow. Joins the city.
T7-AD290
T8-AD305 - Saladin asks for Litt. Accepted.
Gems to HC for Dye
Machinery to Mansa Musa for declaring war on Mao
T9-AD320 - StPete finishes Lighthouse, starts Cat
T10-AD335 - Rostov finishes Library, starts Forge
IBT - Colossus built in far away land
T11-AD350
T12-AD365 - StPete finishes Cat, starts Galley
T13-AD380 - CS - Start Paper, Revolt to Bureaucracy
Novgorod finishes Barrack, starts Maceman
Meet Louis (Hindu) - Open Border and trade Drama for MC
T14-AD395 - JC makes peace with Mao
Give Drama to Toku hoping he will give us OB
StPete finishes Galley, starts Maceman
T15-AD410 - Alex asks to cancel deals with Gandhi. Refused
Monty declares on Fredrick
T16-AD425 - Meet Kublai Khan (Jewish)
IBT - Taoism founded in distant land (Alexandria)
T17-AD440
T18-AD455 - Whip Library in Yaroslav
T19-AD470 - Yaroslav finishes Library, starts Courthouse
Spices to HC for Banana
T20-AD485 - Paper - Start Education
Moscow finishes Nat Epic, starts Theatre
Hinduism spreads in Moscow
Trade World Map to Saladin
We could switch Educ and Theatre in Moscow. Education is probably ok. Otherwise we could do Engineering or Compass (although we should really trade Compass). Instead of Theatre we could do Market, Courthouse, Temple, Barrack or even University of Sankore. I am not sure what is the best order.
I tried to make peace with Mao but he doesn't want to. I haven't tried to give him a tech. I didn't want to do it, not sure if we should.
We could trade Bureaucracy and Paper. Available is Feudalism and Compass. Do we want to give them away already? If we want to go for Liberalism we also need to trade Meditation and Philo.
Our eastern wb has reached the end of the world and is coming back. The western Galley has been trapped between Japanese cities. I got stuck and when I tried to move back Toku just built a city. The Galley was moved back between the 2. I tried to get OB with Toku but it didn't happened.
The military is coming up slowly. Offensively we now have 1 Galley, 1 Cat and 2 Maces are being produced.
A theatre in Moscow is useless to us, as is the university of sankore-we do not have a single religious building. I would either build a market or a barracks and whip out an army. May be the farm next to Moscow should be replaced with a cottage?
It looks like the work boat can continue explorig to the east.
I am a bit concerned with the number of "you have traded with our worst enemy" modifiers we are picking up. I think we are going to have to confine trade to the Buddist block. Of these China is never going to vote for us and Egypt looks like being ouir rival(she will convert to taoism soon anyway). This leaves:
H.C.
Cyrus
Mansa Musa
Montezuma
Saladin
Frederick
Us
Alexander?
This probably will not be enough for us to win the vote, so we are going to have to conquer 1 or 2 AI`s, so I would build/whip an army large enough to conquer China asap.
Research rise I would go for engineering next.
It looks like the work boat can continue explorig to the east.
I am a bit concerned with the number of "you have traded with our worst enemy" modifiers we are picking up. I think we are going to have to confine trade to the Buddist block. Of these China is never going to vote for us and Egypt looks like being ouir rival(she will convert to taoism soon anyway). This leaves:
H.C.
Cyrus
Mansa Musa
Montezuma
Saladin
Frederick
Us
Alexander?
This probably will not be enough for us to win the vote, so we are going to have to conquer 1 or 2 AI`s, so I would build/whip an army large enough to conquer China asap.
Research rise I would go for engineering next.
I don't have much time until the new year so I will need a skip. I haven't gotten into the game but from what I see we are playing way too fast, we don't have a consistent strategy that everyone is following in the diplomatic game.
TDK
p.s.: I would not go for engineering next, I think that everything outside our path to Mass Media is a waste of time and should be traded for instead of researched. Let's try to trade Meditation and Philo and then research Education. Compass should be traded for as a matter of course, it's on the way to Mass Media. We can then research(or trade) Optics, followed by Printing Press and Astronomy(possibly aided by 2 scientists) and grab Scientific Method with Liberalism.
Is it worth switcing to Caste System?
TDK
p.s.: I would not go for engineering next, I think that everything outside our path to Mass Media is a waste of time and should be traded for instead of researched. Let's try to trade Meditation and Philo and then research Education. Compass should be traded for as a matter of course, it's on the way to Mass Media. We can then research(or trade) Optics, followed by Printing Press and Astronomy(possibly aided by 2 scientists) and grab Scientific Method with Liberalism.
Is it worth switcing to Caste System?
India and Japan are in contact with Spain. Can we try buying maps to get the circumnavigation bonus? Is it worth it, or do we not plan an extensive series of wars to gain population.
If Egypt is going to be our chief rival, can we expect to carry the buddhist block, even if Egypt converts to Taoism?
We have no negative modifiers with the hindu block, Can we keep some of them with us, or should we even convert to hinduism and focus on them exclusively, while aiming to conquer buddhists?
Should we aim to make China a vassal, or for total conquest, or just take the good, populus cities?
If Egypt is going to be our chief rival, can we expect to carry the buddhist block, even if Egypt converts to Taoism?
We have no negative modifiers with the hindu block, Can we keep some of them with us, or should we even convert to hinduism and focus on them exclusively, while aiming to conquer buddhists?
Should we aim to make China a vassal, or for total conquest, or just take the good, populus cities?
I think it would definatly be worth trying to get the circumnavigation bonus, we are likely to have to fight at least 1 or 2 more wars. As long as we concentrate on getting + modifiers I don`t think we wiil have much trouble getting the buddist vote (except China and perhaps Greece).
The Hindu block is much smaller than the buddist block so we would have to fight more wars if we went down that path. We can probably keep trading with Rome and France without picking up - modifiers, but India/China are probably too unpopular for us to trade with. Maybe after the war with China we could try flooding Rome/France with buddist missionaries to get them on our side.
Once China knows she`s defeated she will probably become a vassal of someone else, so we should try to take as many cities as we can before this.
We don`t currently have the votes to win so a beeline to mass media does not have much point at the moment. Our immediate priority is to conquer China so I would go for engineering next. I would also stay in slavery so we can whip out our army a.s.a.p.
I agree with TDK that we need to slow down. Perhaps all future turn sets should be 10 turns?
The Hindu block is much smaller than the buddist block so we would have to fight more wars if we went down that path. We can probably keep trading with Rome and France without picking up - modifiers, but India/China are probably too unpopular for us to trade with. Maybe after the war with China we could try flooding Rome/France with buddist missionaries to get them on our side.
Once China knows she`s defeated she will probably become a vassal of someone else, so we should try to take as many cities as we can before this.
We don`t currently have the votes to win so a beeline to mass media does not have much point at the moment. Our immediate priority is to conquer China so I would go for engineering next. I would also stay in slavery so we can whip out our army a.s.a.p.
I agree with TDK that we need to slow down. Perhaps all future turn sets should be 10 turns?
I think our bottleneck is still tech pace rather than conquest so I would beeline to Mass Media -we still have something like 50.000 beakers to the finish line. I don't see how engineering will help us much, maces and catapults should be sufficient. We can trade for engineering later.
A theater won't be bad in Moscow later, we can run 2 artists that will help us research Radio or Mass Media, but I think it's too early to do so. We are still hoping to pop another engineer in St. Pete, right?
We can have peace with China if we want to, he will do it for music or something like that. If we wan't that war with China, we should be building transport capacity -let's not build any more Triremes please.
TDK
A theater won't be bad in Moscow later, we can run 2 artists that will help us research Radio or Mass Media, but I think it's too early to do so. We are still hoping to pop another engineer in St. Pete, right?
We can have peace with China if we want to, he will do it for music or something like that. If we wan't that war with China, we should be building transport capacity -let's not build any more Triremes please.
TDK
I tend to agree with TDK with regard to research. Engineering would give us trebuchet but I don't think they are worth the detour.
We have 1 Galley at the moment. We could use it to ferry troops across to our tile on the other island and then walk them towards China. That would save us time. Or do we want to attack in 2 waves?
Diplomatically I think we should stick with the Hindu block or at least not give them any negative modifiers. But I agree that we should not trade to Gandhi.
I am not sure how many wars we will need to fight. I was expecting more than just 1 or 2. I would think Mao, then Alex and then possibly Cyrus. Then we could tackle the Jewish block if necessary. I also think Victoria would be a better rival than Hattie. Maybe we should keep both in mind and see how it turns out.
We have 1 Galley at the moment. We could use it to ferry troops across to our tile on the other island and then walk them towards China. That would save us time. Or do we want to attack in 2 waves?
Diplomatically I think we should stick with the Hindu block or at least not give them any negative modifiers. But I agree that we should not trade to Gandhi.
I am not sure how many wars we will need to fight. I was expecting more than just 1 or 2. I would think Mao, then Alex and then possibly Cyrus. Then we could tackle the Jewish block if necessary. I also think Victoria would be a better rival than Hattie. Maybe we should keep both in mind and see how it turns out.
Enginering would also give us pikeman to counter China`s war elephants, but I guess we can trade for it soon.
My concern with sticking with the hindu block is that it is considerably smaller than the buddist block, so it could slow us down with more wars. If possible it would be best to keep some of both on our side.
Ferrying across units 2 at a time would leave our units very vulnerable to a counter attack by China. An alternative would be to land on the forest near Guangzhou(see screenshot),and then take this city, which would deny China Copper and split their empire in two. After that whilst the majority of our units defended against China`s counter attack a small expidition could be sent to pillage China`s source of iron. This would deny them the ability to build their unique unit the Cho Ko Nu as well as mellee units. After the counter attack has died down a second stack could then be sent to take the capital, taking China`s source of war elephants as well as the Great Lighthouse- which would be a massive boost to our economy throughout the game. After that it should be possible to finish off the rest of China relativly easily.
I estimate that we would need the following units to take Guangzhou and pillage the iron:
2 maces (1 to take city, 1 to pillage iron)
4 longbows (to defend stack/city) -we can trade for feudalism now
4 trebuchets (remove defensive bonus+take city)
3 pikes (2 to defend against war elephants, 1 to pillage iron)
We would need 7 galleys to transport this stack and maybe an extra trieme to transport it. If we used the whip we could put this together in under 20 turns.
I will be away from the 23rd of December till the 2nd of January, so feel free to skip my next turnset if we continue playing over the holiday.
My concern with sticking with the hindu block is that it is considerably smaller than the buddist block, so it could slow us down with more wars. If possible it would be best to keep some of both on our side.
Ferrying across units 2 at a time would leave our units very vulnerable to a counter attack by China. An alternative would be to land on the forest near Guangzhou(see screenshot),and then take this city, which would deny China Copper and split their empire in two. After that whilst the majority of our units defended against China`s counter attack a small expidition could be sent to pillage China`s source of iron. This would deny them the ability to build their unique unit the Cho Ko Nu as well as mellee units. After the counter attack has died down a second stack could then be sent to take the capital, taking China`s source of war elephants as well as the Great Lighthouse- which would be a massive boost to our economy throughout the game. After that it should be possible to finish off the rest of China relativly easily.
I estimate that we would need the following units to take Guangzhou and pillage the iron:
2 maces (1 to take city, 1 to pillage iron)
4 longbows (to defend stack/city) -we can trade for feudalism now
4 trebuchets (remove defensive bonus+take city)
3 pikes (2 to defend against war elephants, 1 to pillage iron)
We would need 7 galleys to transport this stack and maybe an extra trieme to transport it. If we used the whip we could put this together in under 20 turns.
I will be away from the 23rd of December till the 2nd of January, so feel free to skip my next turnset if we continue playing over the holiday.
Attachments
We have open borders with Alex so why don't we just start ferrying troops now? I think 1 more galley should be enough, let's build maces and catapults everywhere(and a few spears/pikes with Formation and Medic I). I think we should go directly for Beijing, Shanghai and Nanjing in that order, the rest of his lands are... well, crap. When we achieve this goal we can then bring our seasoned army to "lean" on Alex.
TDK
TDK
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