SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[LKendter]

After looking over the game, and summary post I so no reason not to start playing

430 BC
Wake up our GE to head to Iron Island.

I open borders with Rome.

I move the worker above axe in St. Pete. 4 workers and 5 cities is absurd.

I cancel obelisk in Yaroslavl and start a workboat.


415 BC
(IT) The next tech is writing due in 4 turns.


400 BC
I whip the obelisk in Rostov.

This is unbelievable. I just got this message, as I was ready to unload the GE.

I go back to obelisk in Yaroslavl.

I am halting here to hear input on rushing metal casting (about max value from non-scientist) or sit on the GE. Forges would go a long way helping production.

 

[Compromise]

Ouch. What was that 2 turns (the turn the AI built it and the unload turn) we missed it by? Painful.

How many turns away is Metalcasting at our present rate? The GE is worth more for Machinery (after Metalcasting), but Metalcasting sooner can get us a forge and an engineer specialist in Moscow, thus speeding up the next GE by quite a bit.

Do you mind holding off on the rest of your turnset until we get some insight? I might have a chance to think about this more this evening or tomorrow morning.

 

[Kodii]

Lightbulbing Metal Casting is probably a good idea. Though we can't get the bump from the Parthenon, we can get a bump from the Engineer specialist. Plus, we won't have that artist problem. It's definately a shame that we missed by a few turns though.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Pretty incredible.

Newbie would go for the metalcasting light bulb. I am a big fan of forges. There is alot of stuff I don't know about, but forges, factories and power plants are three things I try to get in all production cities.

 

[Compromise]

Metalcasting also opens up the Colossus. And we have copper. We could build the Colossus (by hand) in Yaroslavl' instead of the Parthenon.

 

[LKendter]

Compromise
Greggo
LKendter - Metal Casting
Grangerm
Kodii - Metal Casting
Sir Bugsy - Metal Casting
Iainuki

 

[LKendter]

How many turns away is Metalcasting at our present rate?

19 turns of research. I already wondered the same thing. 19 turns is a nice savings.

I would switch Moscow to forge ASAP if we went this route.

 

[Compromise]

Put me down as in favor of popping Metalcasting. I don't see a better use in the near-term, and running an engineer specialist in Moscow will work toward our goal of making that a productive pure GE generator. If we build the Colossus, it might eventually pop a great merchant which has a reasonable preference for Mass Media (and Banking and Economics, but we can play those as we see them).

 

[LKendter]

Compromise - Metal Casting
Greggo
LKendter - Metal Casting
Grangerm
Kodii - Metal Casting
Sir Bugsy - Metal Casting
Iainuki


Unless I hear strong objections from the last of the players I will rush metal casting, and Moscow to forge, and finish the turn tonight.

 

[Iainuki]

Metal Casting should cost ~1009 beakers at our level, so we're losing a lot of beakers if we invest the engineer in it. (Over 500, by my count.) Do we think that early forges will make up for the loss?

 

[Tatran]

Lurker's comment :

That's very unlucky, but you could have owned the Parthenon if it was
rushed in one of your other cities. Keep looking at the top 5 cties screen
to see who has it. It's a goody you should have. You're playing the vanilla
version and permanent alliances are on, there were some bugs with wonders
(not to go obsolete joining a permanent alliance), so maybe an ally with
the Parthenon or other wonders is an option.
(Must be one of the French leaders who has it. Both are Industrious.)

 

[LKendter]

Metal Casting should cost ~1009 beakers at our level, so we're losing a lot of beakers if we invest the engineer in it. (Over 500, by my count.) Do we think that early forges will make up for the loss?

Early forges AND hopefully early Colosus. How much is the ancient age statue worth?

Does your comment mean you disagree with the team and want to save the GE?

 

[Compromise]

Good reminder about the permanent allilances, Tatran.

Metal Casting should cost ~1009 beakers at our level, so we're losing a lot of beakers if we invest the engineer in it. (Over 500, by my count.) Do we think that early forges will make up for the loss?

I think we can use forges in Moscow, Novgorod and Yaroslavl' at a bare minimum. Then, we can run an engineer in Moscow to really up our GPP. Also, I think we should try for the Colossus in Yaroslavl'. I don't see much of a downside to doing that.

I think the only other good option is to go full speed for Literature and use the engineer for the Great Library. I'm still worried about losing that one. Especially given the early dates for loss of the Oracle and now the Parthenon. To me, that implies an industrious civ (or two) with marble.

EDIT: (I noticed I x-posted with LK.)

Strangely, here's how my Great Library worry breaks down:

Extremely worried: then we should use the GE for Metalcasting because we won't get the GL anyway
Somewhat worried: save the GE for the GL
Not worried: Burn the GE on Metalcasting because there's no hurry to the GL.

Weird.

I'm still leaning toward burning him, then aiming for a forged engineer in Moscow and using another GE for the GL.

 

[grangerm]

I am back from my trip, but I am still catching up on reading. If it's my turn, skip or swap me, I'll let you guys know when I've caught up and ready to play.

 

[Iainuki]

That's very unlucky, but you could have owned the Parthenon if it was rushed in one of your other cities. Keep looking at the top 5 cties screen to see who has it. It's a goody you should have.

We could have had it if we had been more efficient moving the engineer and the boat. C'est la vie.

The Parthenon is not a priority wonder when we're already Philosophical: the marginal benefit is much smaller. The one wonder that I think we should extend ourselves to capture is the Great Lighthouse.

I think we can use forges in Moscow, Novgorod and Yaroslavl' at a bare minimum. Then, we can run an engineer in Moscow to really up our GPP. Also, I think we should try for the Colossus in Yaroslavl'. I don't see much of a downside to doing that.

I think the only other good option is to go full speed for Literature and use the engineer for the Great Library. I'm still worried about losing that one. Especially given the early dates for loss of the Oracle and now the Parthenon. To me, that implies an industrious civ (or two) with marble.

Strangely, here's how my Great Library worry breaks down:

Extremely worried: then we should use the GE for Metalcasting because we won't get the GL anyway
Somewhat worried: save the GE for the GL
Not worried: Burn the GE on Metalcasting because there's no hurry to the GL.

It would take Moscow only 30 turns to generate another engineer assuming the specialist was up all that time. A real estimate would be closer to 40 turns, with 50 turns at the outside. However, even under the most optimistic projections of our future tech rate, I think that a forged engineer will ensure we'll have another engineer to rush the GL as soon as we can build it, so I don't think saving the engineer for GL will be necessary.

Does your comment mean you disagree with the team and want to save the GE?

The Colossus is definitely a wonder that helps more the earlier you get it. (+1 commerce at each of our seafood locations is significant now, but will matter a lot less in another 100 turns or so.) Forges are useful, but expensive if you're not Industrious.

My comment was more of an observation. On further contemplation, I'd probably burn the engineer on Metal Casting: time, as always, is of the essence, and we don't have enough of it to have a GE sitting around however many turns it would take to get something else to use him on.

If we haven't already signed open borders with Gandhi at a minimum, I think we should do that post-haste. There is no reason to lose out on 3-4 commerce income given the state of our economy.

 

[LKendter]

I plan to play in about 4 hours with getting Metal Casting. If anyone really opposes this let me know NOW, and I won't play tonight.

 

[LKendter]

If we haven't already signed open borders with Gandhi at a minimum, I think we should do that post-haste. There is no reason to lose out on 3-4 commerce income given the state of our economy.

I got them with Rome. Once I complete writing I will get OB with Gandhi.

 

[Iainuki]

I got them with Rome. Once I complete writing I will get OB with Gandhi.

Oh, right, my mistake: Gandhi doesn't have Writing yet. Rome should have enough cities to get +2 trade routes in almost all of our cities.

 

[Atlas]

I think we need to prepare for a very fast tech pace. With so many civs out there, religious blocs will form, no doubt with one or two of them being rather large. Once those blocs get Alphabet the tech pace will race along, especially with all the Financial and Philosophical civs out there. Thus, if want the Colossus, we should pop. Metal Casting and build that thing, (I would settle the eventual Merchant in the Copper/Horses city, low food there). Iron City with border expansion) is a good candidate for that and for the Heroic Epic.

 

[Kodii]

I think the majority is for Metal Casting. Lee, you can play whenever you get the chance.