SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[LKendter]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3//The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_BC0250_01.Civ4SavedGame


400 BC
After a really long pause our GE decides against the Parthenon. He offers us the wisdom of metal casting, and it is accepted. I swap Moscow to forge. I will hold off in the other cities for the moment.
(IT) China comes offering open borders. Tough call, but I will decline. I don't want him scouting out our land.
Rostov is a tough call for the next build. I go with forge, as it will be awhile before this town has much production. We should be able to whip out a forge in 15 turns.


370 BC
I get to open borders sooner then expected, as Gandhi just finished writing. We have another eastern friend.


340 BC
I play binary silliness, and turn science down to 0% for one turn.


325 BC
Science is back to 100%, and agriculture is due in three turns.

St. Pete starts our first library. We need some science boosting help.
(IT) Now Greece wants open borders. With being a two city dud, I see no reason to be friendly.


280 BC
I reconfigure Moscow to zero growth.
(IT) Christianity has already been founded! Are we sure this monarch? I am use to this happening in the AD time frame.


=======================

Summary:

Our biggest problem is still military. I didn't get anymore units build even though our infrastructure is a lot more powerful. Moscow completes the forge in 2 turns, with a partially completed barracks after that. I would like to propose we put Moscow in pure military mode with maybe throwing in a couple of exploring ships. Don't forget to hire an engineer in two turns.

We have $94 in the bank. I shut off science for the last couple of turns so that we can debate the tech path again.

Yaroslavl finishes the work boat in one turn, and a forge it queued up. If we want the Colossus we need the forge ASAP. The workboat may want to explore a bit while we wait for the borders to expand.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 430 BC to 250 BC:


Turn 139, 415 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!
Turn 139, 415 BC: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!

Turn 140, 400 BC: You have discovered Metal Casting!

Turn 142, 370 BC: Mahavira has been born in a far away land!

Turn 143, 355 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 143, 355 BC: The Temple of Solomon has been built in a far away land!

Turn 144, 340 BC: You have trained a Worker in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Axeman.

Turn 147, 295 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!
Turn 147, 295 BC: Nabu-rimanni has been born in a far away land!
Turn 147, 295 BC: Zoroaster has been born in a far away land!

Turn 148, 280 BC: You have constructed a Obelisk in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 148, 280 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 149, 265 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ? for Novgorod.
Turn 149, 265 BC: St. Petersburg will grow to size 3 on the next turn
Turn 149, 265 BC: Rostov will grow to size 3 on the next turn

Turn 150, 250 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ? for Yaroslavl'.

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

 

[LKendter]

Look how big the China island is!

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think the number of civs on this map will influence the tech rate.

Edit - And I think that is a target painted on Alexander's chest.

 

[LKendter]

How we are doing. The demographics really prove Moscow needs to go in military mode. Blockading China will be harder then expected.

 

[Kodii]

Theology... already?

I agree, we need to start pumping out the military as soon as we can.

Since grangerm requested a skip, I will go next unless we hear from him during the discussion preceding my turnset.

 

[Kodii]

A note: Caesar has enough on his hands right now...

Checking the top five cities:

Moscow is fourth.

The Oracle and the Parthenon are in the same city: They obviously have marble.
The Kashi Vishwanath and the Temple of Solomon are in the same city: Madrid?

Alex: 2 Cities
Gandhi: 6 Cities
Caesar: 6 Cities
Mao: 7 Cities
Us: 5 Cities

 

[Iainuki]

Theology... already?

Lots of civilizations means lots of great people, which means that all the religions will fall early. There's a good chance someone will lightbulb Philosophy before we can, at this rate, though it has much heavier prereqs.

 

[grangerm]

OK, I'm done catching up. It looks like I am up. I expect to play sometime tomorrow evening if we've decided on a coherent plan by then.

I like that we spent the GE on MC. I doubt that we will have a problem getting our 2nd in time for the GL. Though with the way some things (Christianity, Parthenon) have been falling, maybe that's overconfidence.

I'd like to make a general comment about the way the team has used the in-game notes: I like it! It's very nice to have the in-game reminders of what other people have seen etc. Much, much better than alt-tabbing to see a screenshot with a paint dot on it.

I see a worker (our only unnamed one btw...I might take the liberty of naming him) building a cottage 1 S of Moscow on a tile that's not on a river. I'd like to move him 1 W to the river and start a cottage there instead.

Moscow is at max pop right now, but w/o any whip anger. It also isn't using its fish, instead using a couple forests probably to finish the forge in 2 turns. I would like to whip something soon. 1 turn into the library would get us a 3-pop whip and we'll be getting a +1 happy from the forge.

 

[Kodii]

Thats great

I really don't think theres too much to discuss right now, so playing tomorrow sounds good. We could easily fit in another turnset without any big changes.

 

[Iainuki]

There's one thing that's paramount here: as soon as that forge comes up, we need to get that engineer specialist up. The timing on this is tight enough so we don't want to delay at all.

(Of course, each engineer is +2 production +3 science, which is as good as a good tile, so that's hardly any productivity loss.)

 

[grangerm]

Techwise, have we agreed to do Alphabet -> Literature?

 

[Compromise]

I think we do want to go for Literature and the Great Library with all haste. The civ that built the Oracle and the Parthenon will probably be able to build the Great Library quickly too. Did an AI-forged engineer rush the Parthenon? Very early Oracle usually results in Metalcasting for an AI, so I guess an engineer is possible. Otherwise, this AI could use a forged engineer to rush the GL just like we want to.

Given that, I think we should be working our most commerce-productive tiles all the time. That means prioritizing gem use.

As Iainuki said, we want an engineer running via a forge in Moscow asap.

The other major priority is getting some troops made. Since we're not planning an assault before catapults, axemen are our best defense. They can handle archers and rule against other metal troops. Barracks will help. I'd like an axe in St. Pete and Novgorod and two in Moscow and Yaroslavl'.

Also, I think it's time to send out some workboats to meet the world. When we get Alphabet, it will be valuable to know lots of civs.

I think the Metalcasting move might turn out to be brilliant. With the Colossus, this will convert coasts to villages until Astronomy. That lessens our need to clear jungle.

After Literature, I think we should take the Theology route to Education.

Summary: Muscovite forged engineer; work all gems; build axes, especially in Moscow; explore.

 

[LKendter]

Summary: Muscovite forged engineer; work all gems; build axes; explore.

Add: Moscow troop heavy. We can't keep playing with fire and have carboard cutout defense. I 100% agree with the forged engineer that I mentioned at the end of my post. Maybe I should have put it in bold and underline since it has been mentioned twice since.

I think the Metalcasting move might turn out to be brilliant. With the Colossus, this will convert coasts to villages until Astronomy. That lessens our need to clear jungle.

Well we are just one turn from the forge in Iron City, and still have 1 forest to chop.

 

[Compromise]

Well we are just one turn from the forge in Iron City, and still have 1 forest to chop.

Excellent work!

 

[LKendter]

OOPS, I just realized that was worded wrong. We are one turn from STARTING the forge. We will finish the workboat next turn so that the city can grow after the borders expand.

 

[Kodii]

I don't think theres any need for a summary post before grangerm plays, so I'll hold off on that.

 

[Compromise]

OOPS, I just realized that was worded wrong. We are one turn from STARTING the forge. We will finish the workboat next turn so that the city can grow after the borders expand.

Ah, I was wondering how you got that up so fast. Well, it should be able to whip that forge before too long.

Good luck, grangerm. Try not to make too many troops without a barracks, but protect the empire if needed.

 

[grangerm]

250 BC - 0)
Swap to Alpha, leave science at 0%
IBT: Wealthist civs...screenshot below

235 BC - 1)
Yarslavl: WB->Forge, WB starts to scout Rome's N coast
IBT: Sparta's borders pop, removing our blockade position

220 BC - 2)
Moscow: Forge->Library, add Engineer, GE due in 25 turns.

205 BC - 3)
Adjust science back to 100%, Alpha due in 10
Whip library in Moscow, reassign engineer, growth back due in 3.

190 BC - 4)
Moscow: Library->Rax. due in 1 turn due to overflow/previous work
Whip forge in Novograd
When I check diplo screens, Mao asks me where I think he should put his WAR ELEPHANT. Funny guy.
IBT: Chichen Itza BIFAL.

175 BC - 5)
Novograd: Forge->Rax
Moscow: Rax->Axe
Whip library in St. Pete
IBT: Ananda BIFAL

160 BC - 6)
St Pete: Library->Lighthouse. I decide to let the 6 hammers in the axe decay. It's not worth building it.

145 BC - 7)
WB exploring Northern Rome turns back.

130 BC - 8)
WB sees a Praet on the way back...paddle faster men! What would be the fun in Rome w/o iron anyway?
IBT: Socrates BIFAL

115 BC - 9)
Nada
IBT: Chuang-Tzu BIFAL

100 BC - 10)
Our 2nd axe is finished in Moscow! That probably doubled our power rating.
IBT: Mahabodhi BIFAL

85 BC - 11)
HOF mod politely informs me that Mao has gold and gpt to trade. He must have Currency. I cancelled the fish/crab deal cause I was going to turn it into a fish/3 gpt deal, but he doesn't need fish anymore. Why can't the AI recognize that it doesn't need something anymore and cancel the deal itself? That really shouldn't be hard to program. Anyway, we are +2 with him due to supplying him with fish for a while.
Rostov grows to 5, assigns a citizen for the 1 hammer, 3 sci cause there's no better tiles to work. In a couple turns we'll have 90 hammers in the forge and can whip it. And yes, I did check to see if it would be quicker to grow to 6 and 3-pop whip it or get to 90 hammers and 2-pop whip it. Once forge is finished, our 5th pop point can be a engineer instead of a citizen.
I see an Axe in Sparta. Come on, it'll take more than that to scare us...we've got 2 axes.
IBT: Plato BIFAL

70 BC - 12)
Alphabet finished, start Lit. Due in 4, GE in 15. That means we can sneak another tech in if we so choose.
Ha! Found Plato. He's in Rome, looking 1S at Rome's iron mine.
St Pete grows to 4, assigns a scientist.
Yaroslavl worker finishes chopping forest, so swapped the citizen to work the mined plains hill stagnating the city. In 2 turns when the borders expand, obviously we'll swap to the netted crabs.

--------------------------

There's some pics attached. Wealthiest civs, Rome's cities, tech trading screen.

The grassland 1S of Rome has 3 turns into a cottage. I would have put a note but it overlapped the road note and obstructed the view of Moscow's city growth and build times.

I have been letting Novograd stay stagnant while letting St. Pete use the fish. Once St. Pete grows to 5, we can assign another scientist, work the rice and give the fish back to Novograd. The two workers there are on their way to build a farm on the rice. If we chop the jungle first, we'll have the 3 food square by the time St. Pete grows to 5 and stops working the fish. Of course, that may involve risking a jungle growing while the farm is being built. Don't know what everyone thinks of that, but it'll get us 1 extra food for a couple turns.

EDIT: I only built 1 axe, that's in Moscow. Another is on its way in 3 (though that can be shortened to 2 by swapping from a cottage to a mine. I figured that until we needed the axes badly, we might as well postpone them by a turn or two and mature those cottages). Novograd will finish a barracks in 1 turn and can start pumping out axes. It could also build a library to multiply the effects of its 2 gems, but I decided barracks first, then decide on library or military. Since Mao has at least 1 War Elephant, I'd suggest that we build at least one spear to counter.

The Save

Turn Log

Spoiler :

Turn 150, 250 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Forge.

Turn 151, 235 BC: You have constructed a Forge in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 153, 205 BC: You have constructed a Library in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 154, 190 BC: You have constructed a Barracks in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 154, 190 BC: Chichen Itza has been built in a far away land!

Turn 155, 175 BC: You have constructed a Library in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 155, 175 BC: The borders of Rostov have expanded!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Ananda has been born in a far away land!

Turn 156, 160 BC: Harkuf has been born in a far away land!

Turn 158, 130 BC: Socrates has been born in a far away land!

Turn 159, 115 BC: Rostov will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 159, 115 BC: Chuang-Tzu has been born in a far away land!

Turn 160, 100 BC: Mao Zedong has 220 gold available for trade
Turn 160, 100 BC: Mao Zedong has 3 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 160, 100 BC: St. Petersburg will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 160, 100 BC: Rostov has grown to size 5
Turn 160, 100 BC: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!

Turn 161, 85 BC: Deal Canceled: Fish to Mao Zedong for Crab
Turn 161, 85 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 161, 85 BC: St. Petersburg has grown to size 4
Turn 161, 85 BC: Plato has been born in a far away land!
Turn 161, 85 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Mao Zedong, Julius Caesar, Alexander, Gandhi

Turn 162, 70 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ? for Yaroslavl'.

 

[Kodii]

Looks good! I think we need to keep focusing on building up our military. Mao seems to have started running away on us.

As a quick side note, didn't I say that Gandhi had six cities? He has five now...

I'll add some more notes later, when I get the time.

 

[LKendter]

EDIT: I only built 1 axe, that's in Moscow. Another is on its way in 3 (though that can be shortened to 2 by swapping from a cottage to a mine. I figured that until we needed the axes badly, we might as well postpone them by a turn or two and mature those cottages). Novgorod will finish a barracks in 1 turn and can start pumping out axes.

As long as we don't have a war declaration I can accept slightly slower troops from Moscow. At least we have a second axe. We are number #1 in production, so that should really help get more.



Proposals for the near future
1) Research math so that we can build an aqueduct and Hanging Garden is Moscow. If we go that route Novgorod MUST build military. I keep expecting a war declaration and a self-destruct for our nation. Even a lame 2 axeman landing would be devastating at this point.

2) St. Pete is demanding military protection. Can me move Moscow's warrior to that city?

3) While the library in Novgorod would be nice, we can't keep playing with fire. We need spears and axeman now. With the lay of the Chinese island we can't depend on a galley blockade. In addition, we need Yaroslavl protected better. Building the Colossus is worthless if we lose the city due to just one warrior defending it.

4) We desperately need more workers. The biggest thing stopping us from growing our cities is a lack of useful tiles. I squeezed in a lousy one to get us to 5. That is far too weak with the amount of jungle we have.

5) I can't figure out where, but we really need to get ships out exploring.

6) Besides math, I don't have a real good idea for a tech path. Is our number one goal going to be liberalism first, help the economy with currency, or ASAP military tradition? I don't think Cossacks will matter much if we can't build courts to offset our new conquests.