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I will play tonight. If somebody could put up a *high* level summary of the goals in the next 8 hours I would appreciate it.
SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I will play tonight. If somebody could put up a *high* level summary of the goals in the next 8 hours I would appreciate it.
Compromise
Emperor
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I might be able to post a few high-level thoughts in several hours. Before then, I'd like to reference this post. I assume something like this is the type of thing Iainuki is talking about with respect to respecializing Moscow?
Oh, and I think Hatty is our next target. Starting from her northwest and working toward Huayna. That's open to debate, of course.
Oh, and I think Hatty is our next target. Starting from her northwest and working toward Huayna. That's open to debate, of course.
Compromise
Emperor
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I was wrong. I have no high level thoughts to post. I say prepare to strike Hatty from behind. And I like Ironworks and associated engineers in Moscow working on West Point. Other than that, I think we're just in war mode, skipping from one civ to the next.
Kodii
Ka ICE
Sorry guys, I was writing exams all day today. I would have put something together, but by the time I got home, there wasn't much time for me to throw something together. Good luck on the turnset!
Here's my very high-level summary:
- Prepare for war with Hatty. This is basically positioning and building what's possible.
- Rush the Iron Works with an engineer. Finish West Point the usual way. Finish the Globe with more whipping. Keep work on the Kremlin.
- Make peace with Mao.
- Respecialize China for commerce.
- Start building cash for Physics research.
Kodii
Ka ICE
And use the GS on Physics
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http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_AD1640_01.Civ4SavedGame
1610 AD
As mentioned in the GP plan, I burn our GE to complete Iron Works.
Our GS puts a little over 3000 toward Physics.
Binary science is hitting point of absurdity. I need to get over $1800 in the bank in order to research at 100%.
I am disgusted to find we still have a warrior defending St. Petersburg after all my comments against this.
I whip globe in Athens, and then set the governor to pure food. The whip feast needs only one thing - food.
I see no reason to continue to fight China - both of remaining cities are junk. We will never get much population from them. We get economics in return for letting him live.
I don't recall any comments explaining the settler in Shanghai. It looks like I will have to go back through all the posts again to figure out why. With the sign overload, a sign for the new city would have been nice.
I give Hatty communism for Constitution, $770 and WM. This brings us closer to democracy when emancipation becomes and issue, and a nice chunk of cash toward binary research.
1616 AD
Scientific method goes to Louis for Corporation and $1070. The science machine is back up to 100% again.
1622 AD
Smolensk is formed at the clams and cattle spot.
Our caravel took a look at my planned landing zone. This could get ugly quick, as Pi-Ramesses appears to be Egypt's ship loading city.
1628 AD
I really don't know if we are ready for Egypt, but all the troops are in range. I start our next war.
I try to pick up replaceable parts from Mali, but the price is absurd.
(IT) If I caught correctly all causalities were Egyptian.
I don't remember any notes about the next tech, so I choose Biology to get our cities to grow faster. We need population ASAP.
1631 AD
We got the free scientist for Physics, so I start a GA.
1634 AD
1640AD
ARGGGG - I didn't even realize that Fredrick has a shipping heading to pillage seafood tile. I have no idea why we are still at war with him, so I sign peace for chump change. Beijing orders up a replacement workboat.
=======================
Summary:
The assault on Egypt has begun, and a large block of Hattie's troops is already gone. I left everything fortified in Egypt, so that Compromise can decide how much to send to Elephantine. IMHO that city should go next so that we don't have to guard our rear as much.
Keep whipping Athens to death. We need cannons, and defenders in addition to Cossacks.
1610 AD
As mentioned in the GP plan, I burn our GE to complete Iron Works.
Our GS puts a little over 3000 toward Physics.
Binary science is hitting point of absurdity. I need to get over $1800 in the bank in order to research at 100%.
I am disgusted to find we still have a warrior defending St. Petersburg after all my comments against this.
I whip globe in Athens, and then set the governor to pure food. The whip feast needs only one thing - food.
I see no reason to continue to fight China - both of remaining cities are junk. We will never get much population from them. We get economics in return for letting him live.
I don't recall any comments explaining the settler in Shanghai. It looks like I will have to go back through all the posts again to figure out why. With the sign overload, a sign for the new city would have been nice.
I give Hatty communism for Constitution, $770 and WM. This brings us closer to democracy when emancipation becomes and issue, and a nice chunk of cash toward binary research.
1616 AD
Scientific method goes to Louis for Corporation and $1070. The science machine is back up to 100% again.
1622 AD
Smolensk is formed at the clams and cattle spot.
Our caravel took a look at my planned landing zone. This could get ugly quick, as Pi-Ramesses appears to be Egypt's ship loading city.
1628 AD
I really don't know if we are ready for Egypt, but all the troops are in range. I start our next war.
I try to pick up replaceable parts from Mali, but the price is absurd.
(IT) If I caught correctly all causalities were Egyptian.
I don't remember any notes about the next tech, so I choose Biology to get our cities to grow faster. We need population ASAP.
1631 AD
We got the free scientist for Physics, so I start a GA. 1634 AD
1640AD
ARGGGG - I didn't even realize that Fredrick has a shipping heading to pillage seafood tile. I have no idea why we are still at war with him, so I sign peace for chump change. Beijing orders up a replacement workboat.
=======================
Summary:
The assault on Egypt has begun, and a large block of Hattie's troops is already gone. I left everything fortified in Egypt, so that Compromise can decide how much to send to Elephantine. IMHO that city should go next so that we don't have to guard our rear as much.
Keep whipping Athens to death. We need cannons, and defenders in addition to Cossacks.
Spoiler :
Kodii
Ka ICE
Great work Lee!
Compromise (UP)
LKendter (just played)
grangerm (on deck)
Kodii
Sir Bugsy
Iainuki
Time allowing, I will whip up a summary post tomorrow!
Compromise (UP)
LKendter (just played)
grangerm (on deck)
Kodii
Sir Bugsy
Iainuki
Time allowing, I will whip up a summary post tomorrow!
I don't have a lot of comments.
It looks like Kublai will trade Replaceable Parts for Scientific Method plus, probably, some gold. I think we should do this: Scientific Method has no immediate military applications, and we've gotten all the first-mover advantages there are to get from it. Our next tech, after Biology, should be Electricity, I think. After Electricity is the natural time to turn off research to do upgrades; then, we can start in the final run to Radio and Mass Media.
With Replaceable Parts in the bag, I think it's time we redid our improvements. I think we should globally replace mines with windmills, and stop building more mines. We want to try to make sure every city has bonus food, paving over towns for irrigation chains if necessary. Other than that, it's probably best to focus on workshops, in most places: I don't see us growing cottages in the final phases of the game here enough for them to be a good idea, but maybe we should put some up in a few commerce-specialized cities. Excess resources that aren't good tiles in their own right (silk and ivory come to mind) should get replaced with farms, cottages, workshops, or watermills. Uranium is a good resource, and we really want to get all those mines built ASAP.
I do think it's time to respecialize Moscow as a workshop/watermill/farm/windmill city. We want enough farms to feed our maximum number of engineers, then max out production with the rest. Without Bureaucracy and with all the extra academies we've picked up from our conquests, Moscow enjoys no commerce advantages at all, but it does have a significant production advantage now, so we really want it to run it as a production center for military and, eventually, the UN.
Finally, I think we need to use the whip conservatively, but a little more than we are right now. In particular, small conquered cities that are currently stagnant, but will have appreciable bonus food with border pops, Biology, irrigation chains, or any combination, should be whipped for improvements, since they'll regrow quickly. We also want to whip settlers/workers and essential infrastructure in new fishing villages. Other than that, it seems to me like we want to spare whipping.
Future great scientists will lightbulb Biology and Electricity, in that order, but we shouldn't get another scientist before we start Electricity. Our next engineer should be saved for the UN, probably.
We should continue to put the hurt on Hatty. I'm not sure who our next target is, between Mansa and Huayna. (With Corporation, the Great Lighthouse is no longer of any benefit to us.)
It looks like Kublai will trade Replaceable Parts for Scientific Method plus, probably, some gold. I think we should do this: Scientific Method has no immediate military applications, and we've gotten all the first-mover advantages there are to get from it. Our next tech, after Biology, should be Electricity, I think. After Electricity is the natural time to turn off research to do upgrades; then, we can start in the final run to Radio and Mass Media.
With Replaceable Parts in the bag, I think it's time we redid our improvements. I think we should globally replace mines with windmills, and stop building more mines. We want to try to make sure every city has bonus food, paving over towns for irrigation chains if necessary. Other than that, it's probably best to focus on workshops, in most places: I don't see us growing cottages in the final phases of the game here enough for them to be a good idea, but maybe we should put some up in a few commerce-specialized cities. Excess resources that aren't good tiles in their own right (silk and ivory come to mind) should get replaced with farms, cottages, workshops, or watermills. Uranium is a good resource, and we really want to get all those mines built ASAP.
I do think it's time to respecialize Moscow as a workshop/watermill/farm/windmill city. We want enough farms to feed our maximum number of engineers, then max out production with the rest. Without Bureaucracy and with all the extra academies we've picked up from our conquests, Moscow enjoys no commerce advantages at all, but it does have a significant production advantage now, so we really want it to run it as a production center for military and, eventually, the UN.
Finally, I think we need to use the whip conservatively, but a little more than we are right now. In particular, small conquered cities that are currently stagnant, but will have appreciable bonus food with border pops, Biology, irrigation chains, or any combination, should be whipped for improvements, since they'll regrow quickly. We also want to whip settlers/workers and essential infrastructure in new fishing villages. Other than that, it seems to me like we want to spare whipping.
Future great scientists will lightbulb Biology and Electricity, in that order, but we shouldn't get another scientist before we start Electricity. Our next engineer should be saved for the UN, probably.
We should continue to put the hurt on Hatty. I'm not sure who our next target is, between Mansa and Huayna. (With Corporation, the Great Lighthouse is no longer of any benefit to us.)
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Besides the fact that I personally hate windmills, this is a really bad idea IMHO. The big problem on water maps is lack of SHIELDS, not commerce. I hate killing even a single shield, especially when windmills get no railroad bonus. If we want to keep moving forward with military we need the shields to build troops.
I disagree on this one. Our economy isn't that strong. We really can't afford to kill matured towns just to gain a pop point or two. If we have to kill a cottage I don't mind, but I don't want to kill spaces that have matured to towns.
I really don't understand replacing silk with cottages. The silk is more money, and the cottages will take awhile to beat it.
Please take a look at the game. I already placed one windmill by Moscow, with another on the way despite the fact I hate windmills.
I whipped pretty hard before our GA. Once I hit the GA I stopped the whip outside of Athens. That baby will be whipped every possible time. I really prefer not to whip during a GA. Plus we need to be carefully with excess whipping, as we are in the stage of trying to get our cities large. Some buildings such as granary and lighthouse are well worth the whip. Beyond that, it depends on how large the city will get.
Compromise
Emperor
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I've got the save and have been pondering the previous two posts. I'll have more opinions when I open the game and take a look around. I plan to play tomorrow morning.
Lee, Do you think you wiped out the majority of the Egyptian rear guard?
In case it matters during my turnset--though I doubt it will--is there a clear favorite for the next target after Hatty?
Lee, Do you think you wiped out the majority of the Egyptian rear guard?
In case it matters during my turnset--though I doubt it will--is there a clear favorite for the next target after Hatty?
Kodii
Ka ICE
I think its agreed that its either Huayna or Mansa. Which one, I don't know.
I confess that I really don't understand this. The key advantage of windmills is food. +1 food is one-half a specialist, and if that's an engineer, you've just made up the difference in hammers between a Replaceable Parts windmill and an unrailroaded mine, with a bonus +2.5 net commerce before Electricity and +3.5 after. In cities that can feed multiple specialists, the equation isn't so favorable, but not many of our cities can run an engineer and any more specialists while also maintaining an acceptable growth rate. Replacing two mines with two windmills, you can replace a Biology farm with a workshop, for equal food production and a net gain of +1 hammer and +2 commerce without Electricity, +4 commerce with.
I'm not saying we should replace all our mines. (I'd lean towards keeping the ones in Yaroslavl', for instance, because the city has lots of food.) However, in general, windmills are a much better deal given our tech path and our desire for high populations.
The problem is that it's not just a pop point or two. The difference between 2 bonus food and 4 bonus food is double the growth rate for the rest of the game. As long as we have sea tiles to work, we can keep adding food-neutral population and commerce. We want to avoid bulldozing towns when possible, but if the town is the difference between 4 bonus food and 2 bonus food, I don't think the decision is in doubt. I think in most of the cases, though, it's just hamlets we'd bulldoze, and a few villages.
I meant, more generally, farms and workshops for silk; you're right it may not be worth replacing silk with cottages.
Fair enough. I usually try to avoid whipping during a golden age. I was just commenting for the next player.
Compromise
Emperor
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Perhaps we could set a food surplus goal for each city: Maybe +3F or +4F minimum? That's a pretty good growth rate. If there are mines that can be worked while that food yield remains, then we're good grow.
Tech question: We're going for Biology next. Then it's Electricity, Radio and Mass Media (right?). Is there a compelling reason not to just save up enough cash to run all of those straight through? That might give time for another GS to pop who will be largely useless after Electricity. (Or am I missing something?)
I'm learning from the Iainuki/LK exchange; thanks to both.
Tech question: We're going for Biology next. Then it's Electricity, Radio and Mass Media (right?). Is there a compelling reason not to just save up enough cash to run all of those straight through? That might give time for another GS to pop who will be largely useless after Electricity. (Or am I missing something?)
I'm learning from the Iainuki/LK exchange; thanks to both.
I generally view +4 food as a minimum for each city if I can get it--that's adequate for normal growth, but not really for much whipping. I'm more comfortable with an early food surplus of +6-+8, so I can whip more, but that's not necessary.
I think we want Electricity ASAP for the commerce benefits, which should be considerable. Then, my inclination is to turn off science for awhile until we can upgrade our older units.
I think we want Electricity ASAP for the commerce benefits, which should be considerable. Then, my inclination is to turn off science for awhile until we can upgrade our older units.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
In deciding between Huayna and Mansa I would make the decision really simple: Which one dislikes us more at the time to launch the first wave?
One other thing I forgot to mention: with the Kremlin, whipping is a much more efficient way of building things than doing it with hammers. The price is that the efficiency requires small cities. However, we can whip in infrastructure in a small, fast-growing city by ignoring the unhappiness cooldown, then let it grow to size unmolested and burn off the unhappiness. Likewise, while we have Athens, we can also consider specializing other cities as military depots and whip them, too.
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