SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Compromise]

One other note: I think I neglected to set the governor on all of the Mali cities. IIRC, none of them are out of rebellion yet.

 

[Kodii]

I think we have a basic outline of what our goal is and how we are going to achieve it. Lets continue a smooth playing pattern and only stop if the next player has any questions. Lee, if you're able to play tomorrow, that'd be great. If not, let us know so we can either anticipate a wait or switch with another player. Thanks

 

[LKendter]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_AD1802_01.Civ4SavedGame

1786 AD
I swap research over to combustion.
I used up the GE on the UN, and we have just 3 turns to go.

I forget who said it, but now I agree going for the happy wonders was a mistake. I think I even said yes to it on first reaction. However, with the Tokugawa war coming up I would be much happier with more frigates at sea. Going after the number two civ with no frigates in the queue doesn't make me happy. I am glad when I found Shanghai has a dry dock, so I put the city on infinite frigate duty after the galleon.

I go with the suggestion of peace with China.

I can tell thrashing of the towns my Moscow doesn't sit well with me. I am having a hard time to stop staring at Moscow to decide if it was worth it. I can't get past spending a fortune in time to develop great commerce just to throw it away.

I cancel all missionary builds. We have enough of a lead in tech that the ONLY answer to WW should be up the culture slider - period. Even missionary built is fewer troops.

I don't understand some of the builds such as a market in Hangzhou. I thought the game plan was troops, troops and more troops from any city with shields.
(IT) Tokugawa wants us to declare war on America.
Followed by total dud Frederick demanding a tech. It is the night of the living morons...


1788 AD
(IT) We popped another source of silver.


1790 AD
I would liked to have at several more galleons before landing, but to keep the pace going I declare war on Japan. I have a feeling the first landing will take a beating while I collect a lot of troops from our other land masses.
(IT) Japan only hits us with a couple of cannons.
We complete the UN and Broadway.
Ugg - Monty is emancipated. Everyone on of these notices makes it more painful to stay in slavery.


1792 AD
Resistance is futile...

1794 AD

(IT) I set tentative research on assembly line, but I plan to shut off research for now.
A fishing boat was destroyed somewhere Japan. I only saw the message, but not the unit.

1796 AD
I kill a Japanese settler northwest of Kumbi Saleh. This site would be horrid for food, and I didn't want to have to capture it to kill Japan.
(IT) We are the SG of the UN. The only civs to vote for us were Cyrus, Gandhi and Saladin. This really proves forget getting any AI votes to win. We currently have 580 of the possible 1298 votes.


1800 AD
A secondary objective in the north is captured.

1802 AD


=======================

Summary:
A large stack just landed by Satsuma / Tokyo.

We still have stacks of troops by Walata and Lahore that need to be shuffled to Japan. We now have a few destroyers and transports on the map.


It is late, and I can't play again until at Saturday night, so I am passing off with 8 turns done.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

This sounds more like the Lee I know.

We have 44.7% of the vote. Which means the best our opponent in the election can get is 55.3%. So we can't lose that way. Every time the vote comes up, take a shot, maybe we might get the extra needed votes.

 

[Iainuki]

Quick note: there should be at least four cities with drydocks now, with Beijing and Antium on wonders. It would probably behoove us to add one or two more, probably on the old Egypt/Mali/Inca continent.

 

[grangerm]

OK, I've got the save and I'll think I'll play tonight.

Does our term as SG expire? If so, can we re-run again immediately or do we have to take a term off? Should I try to pass any resolutions?

I think I'll try to start our war to the east. I'm sure we can roll right through Frederick at least.

I haven't looked at the save yet, so I may come back with some more thoughts before I start playing.

 

[Kodii]

I doubt that our SG term will run out during your turnset. If it does, then you can just revote yourself in. From now until the end of the game, we will permanently be the SG.

 

[Kodii]

Quick note: there should be at least four cities with drydocks now, with Beijing and Antium on wonders. It would probably behoove us to add one or two more, probably on the old Egypt/Mali/Inca continent.

If I'm not mistaken, we've decided not to build those wonders.

 

[Compromise]

Nice turns Lee. I'm glad you got us a toehold on the Japanese continent. And that we now have some modern boats.

I wanted to note that I think the best way to use Athens is to let it grow to size 6, then draft, then whip whatever is in the queue.

For the next turnset, it may be a bit early to open up the German front. We'll probably need to build a few boats and some more troops before that assault can begin. I hope we can make more progress in Japan, though. Edo is likely to have many defenders.

 

[Kodii]

On an off-topic note (sorry for my multiple posts): What do you guys think of Murky Waters? Could they be finished too? If they have, they did some mighty fancy diplomatic work, which I'm not surprised at.

 

[LKendter]

If I'm not mistaken, we've decided not to build those wonders.

When I got the game both wonders were already in progress. I didn't have a definitive status on them, so I left them going as to not waste the shields.

 

[Compromise]

When I got the game both wonders were already in progress. I didn't have a definitive status on them, so I left them going as to not waste the shields.

That's what I did too, and with some other buildings such as marketplaces. But I won't mind if we go full bore for troops, especially in non-wonder cities. Judgment call on the part of the turnset player.

 

[Iainuki]

Do we want to go for Assembly Line next? What are the other possibilities? Refrigeration seems to be the other big one. We want to upgrade all our ships before turning science back on, of course.

I'm still inclined to think we should be building marketplaces (for happiness) and forges (for happiness and production). Using the culture slider to suppress unhappiness in the unhappiest cities will be kind of expensive, and it seems like tech can still help us some, but maybe I'm wrong. (It's essentially a trade-off between tech and production here.) It looks like the game may not get around to me again, so do what you feel is best.

I'd probably pass Open Markets as our first resolution, then probe diplomatic victory to see how close we are.

I'm suspicious that Gypsy Kings, Murky Waters, and Geezers have all finished. I'm a little curious how they managed to get diplomacy to work, but it may be something as simple as getting lucky with the religion rolls and picking up early allies.

 

[grangerm]

I guess the only way to know who's finished would be keep checking their save dates. Whether anyone is finished or not really doesn't matter anyway. We are finishing ASAP.

I will check the progress of the wonders/buildings. If they are still too far away, I'll swap them out for some unit.

I think we have all the tech we need to run through the opposition and that our money would be better spent being able to grow our cities while we conquer. But that's an opinion without looking at the game, just a hunch.

For the next turnset, it may be a bit early to open up the German front.

OK, like I said, I haven't looked at the save, I was just going on the fact that he's 2nd to last in score and we were conquering over there earlier. I won't make any rash decisions to go to war if we aren't ready. I promise.

 

[Compromise]

I'm in favor of leaning more toward speed rather than better troops. And like Iainuki said, I'd favor upgrades over tech. So, if we tech at all, I think Refrigeration. After that, I'd probably just run cash and culture. We should have loads of veteran troops after Japan. And with enough artillery, no rifles will pose a challenge.

...
OK, like I said, I haven't looked at the save, I was just going on the fact that he's 2nd to last in score and we were conquering over there earlier. I won't make any rash decisions to go to war if we aren't ready. I promise.

I haven't looked at the save since Lee played either. You may very well find that it's possible to open that German front. If you can get a few destroyers and maybe 3-4 transports full of troops, you could probably start the assault. Note that there were a couple German galleys trapped by our cultural borders at the southwestern corner of the Egypt/etc continent.

I do think we should save Gandhi and perhaps Victoria for last. They are close, so it will be easier to get new troops to them. Cyrus is also a possibility.

 

[grangerm]

Wow, I started playing a little after 8...it's after midnight and I'm only through 8.5 turns. I am going to bed, will finish up the 9th turn in the morning and post the save.

Short summary: I took the rest of Toka's cities on the main island. I took Frederick's 3 cities and eliminated him. Voted twice for victory, no one voted with us of course. 2nd vote is pending the next turn, we have 726 of the 837 out of 1351 that we need. Though that will jump up some cause I took Munich.

We are at 54.16% pop and 42.76% land.

 

[Compromise]

Yeah, these late-game turns take loads of time.

We need to start being careful about our land percentage. Maybe we should track the difference from a turn before and a turn after a city comes out of revolt. That should tell us what percentage 8 tiles (the new ones around the city that become "ours" when the revolt is over) are.

If needed, I think the best thing to do is to give cities (properly whipped to 1 pop if possible) back to Caesar as needed, starting in the south of that island.

I probably won't get much time this weekend to look at saves or do in-depth calculations. But come Monday....

I'm hoping we'll just be able to time some conquests so we get above 62% just as the vote is taken.

It seems to me that I've seen diplo votes where the actual number of votes that I cast is different than the number the voting screen said I had. That implies that the populations that count are the ones at the beginning of the new turn (so maybe cities grow or starve) instead of at the end of the old turn. But maybe I was whipping so that's wrong.

Sounds like you'll take about 6 cities in 9 turns; that's a good pace. We're getting close! Are Isabella and/or Washington next?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If we don't have any troops in a city will the resistance be subdued? Maybe we don't subdue it and allow 1 tile cities to rebel against us.

 

[Compromise]

The cities will come out of resistance regardless of whether or not there are troops in it. And they'll only flip if they are under direct cultural pressure. Because we're removing all nearby AIs, there won't be any pressure, so they'll never flip back.

I'm still impressed that grangerm was able to open an eastern war front.

Looks like our captain is up! Biggest danger is accidentally winning by domination, methinks.

 

[grangerm]

OK, turn log

0) Demand gold from Fred, Monty and Izzy.
Beijing was still 19 turns for R&R, so I swapped to transport.
Decided to keep Antium on Eiffel cause I MM'd down to 9 turns and it would give +1 happy everywhere, +1 happy per 10% lux and give us the ability to run artists for quick border pops, so as not to lose too much pop to starvation.
Swap tech to refrig at 0%.
Current Diplo victory needs 807 of 1302.

IBT) Nets get pillaged by a japanese ship.


1) Call for single currency.
Took Sastuma, lost a cannon.
Up research to 80% cause we are running 20% lux. refrig due in 4.
Took Edo, lost 2 artillery.
Move troops towards Fred. He's backwards and has some high pop islands.
Current Diplo victory needs 814 of 1314. We have 597.

IBT) Single currency passes.


2) Current Diplo victory needs 819 of 1321. We have 629.


3) Took Toyko.
Declare on Fred, land 4 troops next to Berlin.

IBT) Fred impales 10 units on our stack. No russian losses.


4) GS born in St. Pete, settled immediately.
Current Diplo victory needs 824 of 1330.


5) Refrig in, tech to Assembly Line at 0%
Try for Diplo victory. Need 828 of 1336, we have 658.
Took Berlin, Osaka.
Removed some forced specialists in cities (St. Pete and Moscow) cause WW is dragging down growth.


6) Took Hamburg. I've been doing some amphibious attacking Germany to speed us up. Longbows are cake either way.
Diplo victory vote results in no one voting for us. Current Diplo victory needs 827 of 1334. We have 688.


7) Current Diplo victory needs 831 of 1341.


8) Took Kyoto, made peace with Toka for Cordoba and Chicago. Now we have footholds on two other islands.
Ahhh, WW subsides somewhat. Reduce lux to 40%.


9) Eiffel Tower comes in, reduce lux to 20%.
Try Diplo victory again. Current Diplo victory needs 837 of 1351. We have 726.
Took Munich, eliminating Frederick. WW doesn't go away till next turn. Next player can re-adjust lux slider.

---------------

Two bits of bad news. I went to promote a grenadier to a medic, but I didn't realize he was in a group until after I did the promotion, so now we have a pair of medic artillery. Other bad news is more important. KK's borders have sqeezed off Japan's west coast, so we can't go through w/o declaring war. We have a bunch of frigates and galleons N that would like to be S, so that is a problem.

We are at peace with the world (for now). Gandhi has Infantry but he's the only one, Vicky has Rocketry but she's the only one.

I've been prepping for an attack on Egypt's final island. Next turn, there are two transports that will be built and units ready (with signs) to be dropped off on the island in between Hatty's last two cities. Also, I think that Mecca and Medina are tasty cities and should be taken since they are on islands. We have some troops moving up there that can be ferried by the egypt transports after they do their first job.

As for KK, we can take Old Sarai (solo city on an island), which would break up the border problem, but that would leave a couple of our cities to the N, that are on the same landmass as some Mongolian cities, vulnerable. I think we could defend Japan's old continent with a couple destroyers, but its the other cities that worry me.

As for Izzy, we have Cordoba which is right on the edge of her island. We have troops healing on Japan's old isle that can be ferried to Izzy's isle, but the problem is freeing our galleons to get them there.

As for Washington, we have a stack of units near Monty that could be used to attack either Washington or Monty. Only problem is that we only have 1 transport there currently, though a couple are being built and one more is on the way.

Turns switched to 1 year/turn at 1810.

I think it is time to stop whipping and drafting Athens and let it grow to help win the game.

There is a stack of Frigates and Galleons that are at the west coast of our original island. They haven't moved yet this turn and can either be upgraded to destroyers/transports or moved towards Japan's island to help ferry the troops to KK or Izzy.

If we don't have any troops in a city will the resistance be subdued? Maybe we don't subdue it and allow 1 tile cities to rebel against us.

I don't think that matters in Civ 4 anymore.

Biggest danger is accidentally winning by domination, methinks.

Absolutely, that's the only thing that can stop us. I did not experiment with it, but perhaps the "whip/draft cities down to 1 and gift to Caesar" idea should be given a try.

So quick summary is that we are in position to attack Egypt in 2 turns, Saladin in 4-5, Washington/Monty in 4-5 and someone in the E (KK or Izzy or both) in 2-3. Don't give the computer too much credit and be too cautious, let's keep pressing and attacking ASAP. If some fishing nets get pillaged cause we don't have enough boats, too bad, the cities are way more important.

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