SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[greggo]

If nobody objects, I'll play one turn in about an hour and get a screenshot of the rest of iron island.

 

[Compromise]

If nobody objects, I'll play one turn in about an hour and get a screenshot of the rest of iron island.

Sounds good. Don't forget about switching some Moscow tile assignments and moving the St Pete warrior down to Moscow. I think the Moscow warrior will have to move toward the coast next turn, not this (inherited) turn.

Moscow has some turns into a barracks. I'd put one turn into an axe, then finish the barracks. That way, we can whip the axe immediately if needed, of (if not under immediate thread) finish it after the barracks completes.

Longer term: Our GE arrives in just 10T. We're still a ways away from Literature, but I think he should be saved for the GL. In fact, when we get Literature, we might be close to a second GE, in which case we might want to decide whether to build the National Epic with one too.

Is the plan to simply farm everywhere around St Pete? Or just enough farms to support the specialists we can run and cottages above that?

 

[Iainuki]

Sounds good. Don't forget about switching some Moscow tile assignments and moving the St Pete warrior down to Moscow. I think the Moscow warrior will have to move toward the coast next turn, not this (inherited) turn.

Moscow has some turns into a barracks. I'd put one turn into an axe, then finish the barracks. That way, we can whip the axe immediately if needed, of (if not under immediate thread) finish it after the barracks completes.

Longer term: Our GE arrives in just 10T. We're still a ways away from Literature, but I think he should be saved for the GL. In fact, when we get Literature, we might be close to a second GE, in which case we might want to decide whether to build the National Epic with one too.

Is the plan to simply farm everywhere around St Pete? Or just enough farms to support the specialists we can run and cottages above that?

IIRC, the Parthenon is still available? If so, we should look at getting Polytheism first (as soon as after Writing), if it will speed up the next GE enough so we can finish the GL on time. Philosophical dilutes its advantages, but having the GE sitting around for the turns it will take us to research Literature is a waste, and the Parthenon will speed up our later great persons some. We might consider putting it on iron island, if we can get the GE there quickly and safely: the +10 cpt would soon make that entire area ours, helping secure the city from attack and blocking off that part of the map from interlopers.

What else do we do with the GE? A lightbulb at this point in the tech tree wastes a lot of beakers. We could save him for Machinery, but having him sit around for all those turns bothers me.

 

[greggo]

Iron Island is, in fact, an island!


EDIT:

Guys - we're falling behind!

SGOTM 03 - Murky Waters (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page) ... 481
SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page) ... 445

 

[Compromise]

We might consider putting [The Parthenon] on iron island, if we can get the GE there quickly and safely: the +10 cpt would soon make that entire area ours, helping secure the city from attack and blocking off that part of the map from interlopers.

I like this idea a lot. Our strategy is heavily reliant on popping techs, so this is a game-long. It lasts until Chemistry which means we might want to delay frigates, but that's probably okay.

 

[Compromise]

Iron Island is, in fact, an island!

Let's settle that spot. If we can handle its isolation, this would be a great spot for Heroic Epic.

Edit: I guess the decision needs to be made about whether to go around the island on the way back to pick up the to-be-whipped settler.

 

[LKendter]

Guys - we're falling behind!

SGOTM 03 - Murky Waters (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page) ... 481
SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page) ... 445

Let's settle that spot. If we can handle its isolation, this would be a great spot for Heroic Epic.

The debate is over. Let's settle that island even it if it costs us short term in maintenance. This city would be my HE choice.

We might consider putting it (Parthenon) on Iron Island, if we can get the GE there quickly and safely:

If we can put it off, that would be great. This also would slow down the AIs

We could save him (the GE)for Machinery, but having him sit around for all those turns bothers me.

I agree with this. I generally like to use a GP ASAP except when saving toward a GA, or waiting to complete a cheap tech to let him beaker something good. Not to mention waiting for a wonder tech to finish.

 

[Iainuki]

I guess the decision needs to be made about whether to go around the island on the way back to pick up the to-be-whipped settler.

Yeah, we should definitely settle it. This will give us three cities with good production (Moscow, Novgorod, and iron island), three with good commerce (Moscow, Novgorod, and Rostov), and one GP farm (St. Pete.), before we conquer any AI cities. If Mao can handle the maintenance for five non-capital cities at this stage of the game, surely we can handle four, right?

I'd probably go around the island. We want to spot any other seafood before we found, not after.

 

[Iainuki]

A little more about the GE and the Parthenon. Next engineer is due in 75 turns after this one, without the Parthenon, and 60 with. Does anyone have approximate current estimates of the resarch time on Alphabet+Literature? (This should go faster than it claims right now, but we can at least ballpark it.) If we want the Parthenon ASAP, do we want to swap to Polytheism now and then go for Writing? I'd say the extra GPP and the Parthenon denial will be worth some delay in the GL, but I'd like an idea of the magnitude.

 

[LKendter]

I'd say the extra GPP and the Parthenon denial will be worth some delay in the GL, but I'd like an idea of the magnitude.

I agree with Parthenon, but will have to defer to someone else to calculate the difference to GE #2.

 

[Kodii]

Whoa... so many posts

Uuh.. yea. Settle iron island. Maybe build the Parthenon if we can. If I'm missing anything, I'll put it in another post. That would only increase our post count

 

[Kodii]

Theres more purple borders poking out of the fog beside iron island, meaning Julius is pretty close to that island. Settle it anyways, our borders will be far enough away.

 

[Compromise]

I might be able to do some calculating tonight or tomorrow. I guess it will greatly depend on how many gem mines we work. This in turn depends on how desperate our military situation becomes.

I did a quick test at our breakeven point in science right now and came up with 60-some turns to Literature. But, I think we can do *much* better than that if we prioritize gems. Maybe 40 turns?

To be honest, I'm afraid of losing the Great Library if we delay.

I'll try to come up with some real numbers by tomorrow. In the mean time, since we're not near libraries and we need cash for an emergency axe upgrade and polytheism eventually, we may as well research polytheism. Or we can just build up money over this turnset.

 

[Iainuki]

To be honest, I'm afraid of losing the Great Library if we delay.

I'm not, particularly. How much production is even an Industrious AI civ with marble going to have on an archipelago map? I'd expect it will take them at least 10+ turns to complete under ideal conditions. Meanwhile, the AI just doesn't prioritize Alphabet, and doesn't prioritize wonders with prerequisite buildings. I would like some harder numbers on this, but my feeling is that we would have to really delay the GL to risk losing it.

 

[Kodii]

I don't think we're in any rush to build the Great Library. If we tech straight to it, we'll probably go in the following order:

Polytheism (so we might be able to get the Parthenon) - Writing - Alphabet - Literature

Did we ever get Agriculture? If not, we should probably include it somewhere.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I agree with Parthenon, but will have to defer to someone else to calculate the difference to GE #2.

Each subsequent GP costs an additional 100 GPP

 

[Compromise]

If I have it right, the epic great persons cost: 150, 300, 450, 600, etc. with each additional one costing another 150 GPP (100 + 50% epic speed cost).

The multipliers all apply to the base rate, so a philosophical civ with the Parthenon and the Pyramids (+2 GE GPP) earns:

2GPP base + 1GPP Parthenon bonus + 2 philosophical bonus = 5GPP per turn. If we have that for the entire time of generation, that's 150/5=30T for the first great engineer, 60T for the second, 90T for the third, etc.

Note that without addition sources of GPP, our third person would be a great artist (from the Parthenon site) because the Parthenon's GPPs will start building up before the third GE is started.

 

[Kodii]

I don't really mind having an artist as our third GP, although it may be redundant if we decide to go for Music too. We could always save it for lightbulbing near the end. I'm thinking about it in this fashion:

If we don't build the Parthenon, we'll get a GE for the GL, and more GEs, but at a slightly slower rate

If we build the Parthenon, we'll still get a GE for the GL, and more GEs in the future, and more likely at a faster rate than without it.

We're bound to get some GPs that we don't really want and since this is a chance to boost our eventual GE rate, then why not go for it?

 

[LKendter]

I just got a chance to look at the game before heading to sleep. These 10 hour days are killers...

This is what I was looking for when I said the calculations.

2GPP base + 1GPP Parthenon bonus + 2 philosophical bonus = 5GPP per turn. If we have that for the entire time of generation, that's 150/5=30T for the first great engineer, 60T for the second, 90T for the third, etc.

That would make it 70 turns for the second GE. As of the 580 BC we need 10 turns for the first. What date is 70 turns from 580 BC? That will answer the question on the Parthenon or sitting on the GE. I only know the typical Great Library date by years, not turns.

 

[Kodii]

470 AD, if I'm not mistaken.