SGOTM 04 - Murky Waters

LowtherCastle · Apr 7, 2007

Gnejs said:
Perhaps not right now, but it will have to be soon. Remember that the AI is not very competent at offensive wars when there is water involved. Even if we leave GC undefended Gandhi may not capture it for quite some time.

It also won't take many units to keep Gandhi inside GC and not out pillaging. 4-5 units on hills close by should do the trick. Then, when we want to give away other cities we can make a trail of workers right up to them.

If you feel confident about that, then let's go for it. I would keep the triremes around to plug things back up after he takes GC, though, and have the defenders in place in advance.

Maybe you or Erkon could propose a dot map showing what you consider a workable defensive stance?

Erkon · Apr 7, 2007

You are all a bunch of peace-mongers. One longbowmen on a hill next to GC is enough to keep G inside the city walls. Then we put a berserker on the pigs. That's enough. Each turn we delay the gifting of GC is a turn delayed for G to capture our last city on the continent. And that leads to one turn delay on his spaceship you wasters!!!

BTW, do you recall the tune to Handel's Messiah? You can find it here. Don't miss the MIDI-link at the top if you don't recall the lyrics. Now, replace the words with:

I'm a waster!
I'm a waster!
I'm a waster!
I'm a waster!
I'm a whae-hae-hae-hae-ster!

Happy easter to all of you...

LowtherCastle · Apr 7, 2007

Erkon said:
You are all a bunch of peace-mongers. One longbowmen on a hill next to GC is enough to keep G inside the city walls. Then we put a berserker on the pigs. That's enough. Each turn we delay the gifting of GC is a turn delayed for G to capture our last city on the continent. And that leads to one turn delay on his spaceship you wasters!!!

BTW, do you recall the tune to Handel's Messiah? You can find it here. Don't miss the MIDI-link at the top if you don't recall the lyrics. Now, replace the words with:

I'm a waster!
I'm a waster!
I'm a waster!
I'm a waster!
I'm a whae-hae-hae-hae-ster! lol, very good...

Happy easter to all of you...

Happy Waster to you, you Easter.

And Happy Easter to you too!

So get on with it, pop that settler, gift GC, kill our points graph. Doom us.

Do it now!

...and good luck finding Easter eggs with GK waxed on them!

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

Got it.....

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

I'm a bit concerned regarding our cultural borders. It will take a while for Gandhi to push the border of GC to get hold of the gold. Also, Gandhi is building windmills on his mines. So, if we build Brown City for him, he will probably buils windmills instead of mines. And G won't get the sheep until CF is his. Should we still build BC, or is the window closed?

JERFit · Apr 8, 2007

Maybe we should wait until we can afford to give up CC also?

Should we we build BC and take some 10-15 turns growing and mass producing improvements (mines) before we give it to him? Or risk G building some city in some horrible location.

LowtherCastle · Apr 8, 2007

Erkon said:
I'm a bit concerned regarding our cultural borders. It will take a while for Gandhi to push the border of GC to get hold of the gold. Also, Gandhi is building windmills on his mines. So, if we build Brown City for him, he will probably buils windmills instead of mines. And G won't get the sheep until CF is his. Should we still build BC, or is the window closed?

I have envisioned 2 or 3 different patterns of us releasing our cities to G. While we're developing the new homeland, what do we keep for hammers? What do we keep for gold/research?

GK is hammer poor, so I assume we'd want at least BC/CF for ourselves for some time to come.
GK is a great research center and with slavery can produce some units as well.
MW is an interesting case: 1) Its culture is a big problem for G; 2) It's an opportunity for us to palace jump once or even twice (MW>Karak>Bibracte or Isabella-capital?), if we know or can figure out the mechanics of palace jumping.
Palace jumping to Karak gives us an awesome research capability for now.
Palace jumping to Bibracte allows us to ignore CHs for now and build the FP in Isabella-Land later, for example.
CHs in GK Land allows us to maintain two centers for a while.

Your concern may show why CRC has the double hitch--GC now, MW later. Maybe they came to the realization that without giving up MW, GC wasn't going to get any gold.

GC's primary function right now is as a G foothold, not a commerce producer. GC will have fish for growth.
CC will be G's first commerce producer from us, but that also may not free up any of the gold. So G gets the gold when we're ready to abandon MW...big deal. All the more reason to conquer Brennus asap.
G doesn't need BC for the time being, it may be useful to us as a unit producer, and it will never cause G cultural problems.
We don't need to worry about G building windmills--we can always send a wkr/rifle stack to rebuild the mines, right?
BC and CF we can give up at the same time, but later.

We definitely should mull over the big picture a bit, but I don't see any reason to wait on your idea. Poprush the settler, raze Barb City, build BC, give up GC. I think it's a perfect plan. Erkon, you're ~~an idiot~~ a genius! (Aren't they known to possess similar 'symptoms'?

)

LowtherCastle · Apr 8, 2007

JERFit said:
Maybe we should wait until we can afford to give up CC also? That has been my thinking too. But I suppose it doesn't hurt us or G if he gets GC as a foothold, right?

Should we we build BC and take some 10-15 turns growing and mass producing improvements (mines) before we give it to him? Or risk G building some city in some horrible location.

Definitely not. He'll build it on the coast and not have nearly as many hammers. I say we do your first alternative.

BTW, it looks like your choice of putting GC on the coast was a good one for us and for Gandhi. :goodjob:

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

LC - What mechanism about palace jumping? Is there anything else we need to do apart from building the palace where you want it?

We can't build mines (or any other improvement) outside our culture...

BC will give us lots of units, so I prefer if we can hold on to it for a while.

Turn 0 update:

Traded sugar to Brennus for 6 gpt
Whipped a couple of cities
Assembling forces for multiple attacks

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

Do you want me to gift Compass to Brennus?

LowtherCastle · Apr 8, 2007

Erkon said:
LC - What mechanism about palace jumping? I'm talking about losing our capital, so the capital is automatically established in some othercity. In CivIII you could manipulate it to make it happen in the city you wanted.Is there anything else we need to do apart from building the palace where you want it?

We can't build mines (or any other improvement) outside our culture...

BC will give us lots of units, so I prefer if we can hold on to it for a while.

Turn 0 update:

Traded sugar to Brennus for 6 gpt
Whipped a couple of cities
Assembling forces for multiple attacks

Erkon said:
Do you want me to gift Compass to Brennus?

I think it's risky. I'd rather know for certain that he won't have Macemen when we get there.

EDIT: I haven't checked Brennus' land. Ifitwill be easy to cutoff his supply of iron and copper, then we maybecould risk it.

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

Turn 1 update:

Gandhi sends a trireme-galley pair out of his capital. I don't attack, since I predict he has a settler and will settle on the Gandhi peninsula. That would solve a lot of problems for us.

Otherwise, I killed a stray GK longbowman. I'm moving one army east and the other S-W.

Mechmed will trade theology and 20 gold for CoL and Construction. Yes?

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

It's not trivial to block Brennus metals. He has two iron and one copper. And horses and ivory.

LowtherCastle · Apr 8, 2007

Erkon said:
Turn 1 update:

Gandhi sends a trireme-galley pair out of his capital. I don't attack, since I predict he has a settler and will settle on the Gandhi peninsula. That would solve a lot of problems for us. I disagree. He cannot settle where we want him too. I don't like that.

Otherwise, I killed a stray GK longbowman. I'm moving one army east and the other S-W.

Mechmed will trade theology and 20 gold for CoL and Construction. Yes?

Erkon said:
It's not trivial to block Brennus metals. He has two iron and one copper. And horses and ivory.

Right. Keep him backwards.

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

My point was that he will settle NW of CC, isn't that good?

Anyway, we have more important stuff to discuss. Schrodingers Cat has escaped. Why do I always have to stall after two turns???

I will upload the save (Gnejs, perhaps you don't understand this trade diagram

, but it means that Gandhi, Hannibal and GK has optics, and that they have met)

I promise, all I did was to trade me Theology. I'll kill that butterfly.

Turn log

Spoiler :

LowtherCastle · Apr 8, 2007

Erkon said:
My point was that he will settle NW of CC, isn't that good? Sure, that would be fine as far as I can tell.

Anyway, we have more important stuff to discuss. Schrodingers Cat has escaped. Why do I always have to stall after two turns???

I will upload the save (Gnejs, perhaps you don't understand this trade diagram , but it means that Gandhi, Hannibal and GK has optics, and that they have met)

I promise, all I did was to trade me Theology. I'll kill that butterfly.

GK will continue to trade with G, having met Hannibal. Wehn GK meets one more AI, then 2 others will have to know the tech, not just one. No biggie, life goes on.

What are your concerns? We just continue as planned...

LowtherCastle · Apr 8, 2007

Looked at the save. Seems fine to me. Watch CF because the build flipped automatically to settler (we want galleon).

Otherwise, I can see you have every intention of maxing out our WW...enjoy!

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

Tabriz Razed

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

Tiflis Razed

Erkon · Apr 8, 2007

Karakorum Razed

SGOTM 04 - Murky Waters

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