SGOTM 04 - Trash Team

Tested my strat with Remco's save.

By 1900 one worker, one settler, two axes and a trading post. Went sailing -> wheel -> agri -> AH. Otherwise good, bit too slow on the settler, though. Didn't chop, should perhaps have switched building a mine with one.

8 pages and we've played up to BW? Wow, CIV is a bit complex. Never even realised the amount of choices this early in the game.
 
That is very interesting about the pre-requisites affecting the costs- I never knew that. In that case, I too am ok with going for agriculture before animal husbandry.

Also, between the trading post or barracks as our "queue-holder". I had forgotten that we were aggressive, which means that we already get combat 1, so building a barracks just for the promotions is not worth it, especially since we are going to be producing axes soon, which will be against barbarian warriors and archers. Also, we get half-priced barracks', so it shouldn't take long to build one whenever we do wind up needing one. I do agree that there is no need to rush the trading post out there ASAP, maybe not even before our first settler, but I would like to see one relatively soon, especially before a barracks.


Another big issue here is the whole beelining to astronomy for an "independence day" (I read the SG by the way- a very interesting game!) plan. It does seem pretty feasible, but I really don't think we should worry about it too much now, and concentrate on getting the techs we know we'll need.


How do people feel about boardnames being abbreviated? If you've got any views or suggestions for an abbreviation you'd be happy with please post for future reference.
I don't know why but I'm not keen on 'piggy' (lord of the flies reference?).
ps is ok ( cap'n is ok too :lol: )

Definetely fine by me. You can call me Mahk, Mark, or whatever works.
 
Certainly at the moment its getting the basic techs to allow us to expand, explore and get a basic military.

I've been thinking about astronomy beeline. It occured to me that there are actually two quite seperate beelines involved:

Optics needs machinery and compass (IW, MC, Sailing, Pottery, BW).

Calendar needs mathematics (AH/pottery, writing).

It then occured to me that AI tend to be very good at researching the calendar beeline but usually poor with the optics beeline.

I then thought that if we went for optics (using GS for compass and optics) we could build caravels/upgrade triremes and sail around the world ready for massive tech trading to catch up on calendar beeline, construction, alphabet, monarchy, feudalism etc.

If AI are seperated by oceans then they won't be in contact with each other before they get optics and build caravels giving us a potential trade window.
 
So,

Conclusions so far:
-We are going to focus on expansion first. Getting the Settler asap.
-Building Axes asap
-Getting a TP relatively soon after
-Agriculture before AH

-Question remains: Do we want to chop a forest for the Settler?

PLAN FOR MY TURNSET:

Tech: Wheel > Agriculture > AH > Sailing
Build: switch to worker (whip when possible) > warrior > settler (with chop?) > 2/3 Axes > TP
Worker: Mine > Road > Chop? > Farm > Road > Pasture > Road

If I get a few agreements on this plan I'll play tonight.
 
I agree.....

Edit: could you post screenshot(s), small report etc. once settler is built so we can argue about where exactly to build the next city.
 
I agree. Chop if you will, but I don't think it's necessary.
 
Turn 28 (3160 BC)
Rupert (Scout) promoted: Woodsman I
Remconius: Promote Rupert to defend himself by standing behind a tree.

Turn 30 (3100 BC)
Remconius: Sounds like Gyathaar, Same island, no connection ....

Turn 31 (3070 BC)
Remconius: Nice city location!
11Trash.jpg


A Forest has grown a Nidaros!
12Trash.jpg


Turn 34 (2980 BC)
Nidaros finishes: Worker

Turn 35 (2950 BC)
Nidaros begins: Settler
Remconius: Everybody needs good neighbours!
Spoiler :
Contact made: Mongolian Empire
13Trash.jpg


Turn 36 (2920 BC)
Tech learned: The Wheel

Turn 37 (2890 BC)
Research begun: Agriculture

Remconius: Marble-ous!
14Trash.jpg


There he is:

15Trash.jpg


Turn 42 (2740 BC)
Remconius: A hut, but also a lion :(

16Trash.jpg

Scout defeats (0.84/1): Barbarian Lion

Turn 45 (2650 BC)
Tribal village results: a little gold
Remconius: 48 gold from the hut!
Tech learned: Agriculture

Turn 46 (2620 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry

The Capital
17Trash.jpg


And the map
18Trash.jpg


The save

Roster
Pigswill
Remconius - Just played
Cabert - UP
Stuge - On deck
Cam_H
MrMahk
Patagonia
 
Steady as she goes Mr Remconius. Aye aye Captain.

Rupert lives!

Nice to have neighbours. Should be a while before we have to worry about close borders. Gandhi looks pretty safe on his peninsula so we could leave him there for now until he's ready to pinch our cities.

At least tech trading should be an option for Gandhi as well as us.

Any news on religions?

In terms of city placement I'd go for south of the river nabbing three gold and a fish with a piggy overlap. To start with pigs and two gold should be ample until we find a border popping device (BPD).

Can't be too long until barbs show up. Would be nice to get a TP before we start churning out axes.
 
My attempt at a dotmap:
TT dotmap.jpg

Cities 1 and 2 both have 2 food resources which can be used for Great people production.
Cities 3 and 4 had lots' of commerce.
Cities 5 and 6 have a nice number of resources, but we'll probable have to take them from GK.

Btw.... We should settle a coastal town on Gandhi's side to make sure he builds ships to cross over to our side.
 
Good turnset Remco! :goodjob:

I am amazed on Gandhi's lack of a faith. He's got two Gem mines and doesn't have the commerce to pick up a religion? Huh?

Further to Remco's suggestion on getting a coastal town near Gandhi's border, I am wondering if we should try to get a city to flip to him by sticking it near Delhi? He might try to settle in our turf once his section of the island is filled. I'm not sure how to handle this as it was hard enough to get him to attack my cities in my test game where we didn't have this problem :undecide:.

Marble ... what to do? What to do? Is The Great Library now back on the agenda?

Remco's dot map: I thought our second city would be on the River Plains between the Pigs and the Fish to pick up the Golds? As for proposed 1., I also thought that was a good site but leaned towards Stuge's coastal version because of The Colossus / Financial combo.

Re. "Piggy" ... you can call me Cam rather than Cam_H ("Cam" was taken by the time that I registered for these boards).

On the roster; I'm unable to play until Friday (which is Thursday for most of you), so I suspect that the timing will work out well with Cabert and Stuge to play before me. In a fortnight I'll be disappearing to Sydney for four days, but more on that closer to the time.
 
some comments : when I said pop rushing I didn't mean a worker pop for 1 pop.
I thought growing to size 4 and pop him for 2 pop points. Should have expressed more clearly I suppose. Well, still good :
- to see a neighbour
- to see good city sites
- to have a little gold in the bank

I think we cannot afford to grow back to size 4 now, but we need troops anyway before the settler. Noone is near enough to take the city site away from us, so let's play it safe :
- troops first (axeman), then settler
- if we manage to grow near size 4, we may start/finish the WB to grow to size 4 before whipping the settler. It may in fact be the fastest way to the guy!

About me playing the next round :
hum, that game is getting played a lot faster than I thought.
I promised my wife I wouldn't play this week :mischief:.
I can try to play a few turns (10?) tomorrow, if we agree on the path to take.


About dotmap
here is mine.
Trash_dotmap1.jpg


The red dot is probably culture flippable, but it's a good coastal city anyway.
The south most city (pink) is thought to be a production city, but it's a bit weak.
I didn't have the northern part of the map so I didn't dotmap it, but I hope there is room for a better production city.
The only priority is gold fish city. The rest needs Iron.
About teching, I'd say sailing then then pottery>writing (we need culture!) .
 
Certainly goldfish is city #2. Red and blue are encroaching on Gandhi. I'm thinking that we should be aiming to keep away from Gandhi at the moment so he can develop peacefully (and so can we). Red and blue would be good gimme sites for Gandhi but I think we need to be avoiding them for the moment.

We could either expand south towards GK (yellow and purple) or northwards. Purple surely needs IW and plenty of free workers. I'd reckon that we aim to nab yellow before GK gets it then expand north and leave GK or Gandhi to cut the purple jungles.

Techwise I'm wondering about quick detour to mysticism between sailing and pottery so goldfish can build a monument to grab them fishes early. We've also discussed TP for Nidaros and I reckon that should be first building in Nidaros after knocking out a couple of axes.

Cabert:if you want a swop to maintain domestic harmony ;) what about if stuge plays next (if available) then Cam over weekend and you play the set after Cam (so you can whip away the population he's carefully nurtured :lol: ).
 
The previous dotmap plan was before we knew very much of the map. The corn just below the gold feels like a compelling argument to split it into two cities. Corn support for the gold and fish/clams city for Great people production.

Or better yet have the gold city between corn and pig. See below. Then we can still have the cities 1 and 2 (with 2 food resources each) for great scientist production.

dm trash4.jpg


some comments : when I said pop rushing I didn't mean a worker pop for 1 pop.
I thought growing to size 4 and pop him for 2 pop points.

I did consider the idea of growing to 4, but I thought we all agreed to switch to the worker immediately to get copper online asap. Growing first would have taken another 8 turns as there was no food stored. That is what I proposed before playing.

To continue to grow we should wait until the corn farm is ready. Then stop the settler, switch to axe and grow (in 5-6 turns) before completing the settler.

An idea on moving the settler (although a little risky) is to bring Rupert back and use him to scout for wild animals. Once the city is placed it will be save, from animals as they dont enter borders, until the barbarians appear. Rupert is pretty good defense against animals (+130% in forests). Axes will be ready soon after for real defense. City two can immediately use the pig to grow fast and whip more units.
 
The previous dotmap plan was before we knew very much of the map. The corn just below the gold feels like a compelling argument to split it into two cities. Corn support for the gold and fish/clams city for Great people production.
Or better yet have the gold city between corn and pig. See below. Then we can still have the cities 1 and 2 (with 2 food resources each) for great scientist production.
OK, your city n°3 is great.
So I suggest moving my gold fish city 1NW, making it unnecessary to have any culture before working the fish :).
I think your city n°3 is too good to be n°3. It must be number 2!
All the gold mines are within the first ring, making it possible to build "remote gold fish" without any culture :goodjob:.
That would be a huge start!
We're not philo we're financial, so let's focus on commerce.
But when our cities will grow, those 3 will be able to run scientists indeed with all this food!

about the past
I did consider the idea of growing to 4, but I thought we all agreed to switch to the worker immediately to get copper online asap. Growing first would have taken another 8 turns as there was no food stored. That is what I proposed before playing.
It's too late, what is done is done.
We need the wb still for exploration and this could have been done in the 8 growing turns.

To continue to grow we should wait until the corn farm is ready. Then stop the settler, switch to axe and grow (in 5-6 turns) before completing the settler.

I'm unsure. We can start building units now, let's do it. The corn and the pig will allow us to grow fast, and will also allow us to build a settler fast!
At size 4, we would work
- pastured pigs
- clams
- farmed corn
- copper mine
= worker/settler factory.
Of course, if we can have a settler posted at your city n°3 spot early, we could tech a lot faster...
I still think that 1 axe now is needed, then a settler while working high food tiles + whipping it (even for 1 pop) will come out soon enough = before our worker is done pasturing /roading the pigs.

An idea on moving the settler (although a little risky) is to bring Rupert back and use him to scout for wild animals. Once the city is placed it will be save, from animals as they dont enter borders, until the barbarians appear. Rupert is pretty good defense against animals (+130% in forests). Axes will be ready soon after for real defense. City two can immediately use the pig to grow fast and whip more units.
if the team decides on settler first, it's a good move.
Just remember that the guy isn't fogbusting right now = there will be barbs around at the time he comes home.
 
Cabert:if you want a swop to maintain domestic harmony ;) what about if stuge plays next (if available) then Cam over weekend and you play the set after Cam (so you can whip away the population he's carefully nurtured :lol: ).
:D
if noone gets into trouble because of this swap, I'll take it gladly!
Whipping away the population cam hands me over is always very pleasureable
By the way cam, I don't care if there are 1 or 2 unhappies in your cities for me to whip away ;) : a library is costing 3 pops (I don't know the hammers cost, but I know for sure the pop cost :lol:.
 
A library costs 135 hammers (afaik) = 3 pop of 45 each...

City nr.3 wasnt numbered as priority number. It relates to the numbers of my previous dotmap. In the previous dotmap we could have two northern cities (1 and 2) with two food each fish/clams and Corn/sheep. Then there is the cities 3-6 on the second dotmap. Cities 1 can be positioned to have corn and sheep inside borders immediately. City 2 would need border pop to incorporate fish and clams.

I think it's obvious the gold/corn city should be built first. The next city can then be decided by the team. My idea would be city nr.1 (corn/sheep) for GP farm. And with the Capital at full strength producing Worker/Settler, and the gold/corn city to cover maintenance we should be able to build more cities in no time.
 
Having looked at it some more I must agree that corngold is stronger than goldfish. Hopefully its too far from either Gandhi or GK for them to pinch it first so I'd favour caution and get axe before settler.
 
GK is quite a bit away and we can build 1-2 layers of cities between Goldcorn and GK. Gandhi does not (yet) seem to have a land connection to us. There are mountains and water between him and us.

Axe first is the safe option...
 
Will play tomorrow. How many turns should I do?

BTW, regarding saves, we can post them here in the thread? Because I was under the impression that saves have to be uploaded to the GOTM page.
 
Back
Top Bottom