pigswill
fly (one day)
Nothing changes if GK becomes Gandhi's vassal. We ain't going to negotiate peace with GK because we don't want war with Gandhi!
SGOTM 04 - Trash Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
stuge
Emperor
Using the GG for a xp sprinkle sounds good to me.
We should trade astronomy around soonish. The more we trade it, the bigger the chance it'll find its way to Gandhi. Perhaps, with galleons, he'd finally get some troops across.
We should trade astronomy around soonish. The more we trade it, the bigger the chance it'll find its way to Gandhi. Perhaps, with galleons, he'd finally get some troops across.
remconius
Deity
Did you guys read all the stuff about making peace with Gandhi. It was declared "not allowed" by the mods but it is possible 
It involves getting Gandhi to become a vassal of another, then making peace with the Master. If the G then becomes independent again you are no longer at war.
It involves getting Gandhi to become a vassal of another, then making peace with the Master. If the G then becomes independent again you are no longer at war.
remconius
Deity
The decisions left are:
1. Do we sign peace with GK, or push on to grab a few more cities?
2. When do we start trading Astronomy with the world. Do it now to hope G gets it earlier, or wait to get more techs.
1. Do we sign peace with GK, or push on to grab a few more cities?
2. When do we start trading Astronomy with the world. Do it now to hope G gets it earlier, or wait to get more techs.
I'd be inclined to (1.) press on with the war and (2.) make the trades as suggested on the previous page. 'Normally' I'd hang on to the monopoly technology for better deals, but it's not a bad move i.m.h.o. in this game - who knows ... we might get offered Divine Right in later negotiations?! 
pigswill
fly (one day)
Cabert suggested wipe out a few cities e.g. clear out west side or east side and keep fighting until GK offers eg engineering coz we'd probably need a few turns to heal units, reorganise stack(s) and move into position anyway. Sounds a reasonable plan to me.
I'd hold on to astronomy for as long as poss; maybe until its discovered by an AI. Gandhi can certainly send troops over on galleys in the meantime if he discovers aggression.
I'd hold on to astronomy for as long as poss; maybe until its discovered by an AI. Gandhi can certainly send troops over on galleys in the meantime if he discovers aggression.
2 things :
- trading astro all around the place won't give it to gandhi, that's just not true. He will have nothing to offer for it.
That's why I'm, for once, not willing to trade it now.
- getting ripped off is usual in AI trades, but I think we could get a better deal (waiting for paper, for instance?)
- trading astro all around the place won't give it to gandhi, that's just not true. He will have nothing to offer for it.
That's why I'm, for once, not willing to trade it now.
- getting ripped off is usual in AI trades, but I think we could get a better deal (waiting for paper, for instance?)
remconius
Deity
The plan:
1 - I'll clear the east side ( it has the iron) and sign peace. Unless he comes with a great offer and we need to regroup anyway.
2 - Two in favour of trading, two against. I am somewhat in the middle, so I'll wait with astronomy for better deals.
GG used on multi units
1 - I'll clear the east side ( it has the iron) and sign peace. Unless he comes with a great offer and we need to regroup anyway.
2 - Two in favour of trading, two against. I am somewhat in the middle, so I'll wait with astronomy for better deals.
GG used on multi units
pigswill
fly (one day)
Another factor is relations between Gandhi and other AIs. They're not very friendly except for GK and its unlikely we'll be trading with him any time soon.
remconius
Deity
Summary
-Captured: Beshbalik, Kazan
-Ready to capture Bractian, Ning-shia (his iron city).
-Built more beserkers (we now have 14 most are CR3) and 11 catapults.
-Converted Brennus, and cancelled deals with him. He is now set to become friends with G, which will take some time.
-Towards the end of my turns I felt the moment had come to start trading techs. Made a bit of an oops
. Wanted to see what hannibal would offer apart from paper, but clicked "would you accept" instead of "what would you offer" 
Any way that gave us paper.... I dont think it makes a huge difference, because we can get the rest from others, except we should have gotten his gold.-Also got guilds, philosophy, engineering, drama, world maps and gold from Isabelle and Mehmet
Plan
-Capture eastern cities from GK and sue for peace. (Trade GK Astronomy so he can trade with G??)
-See what else the AI has and trade for paper/astronomy.
-Send 4 missionaries (1 nearly there) to Mehmet. Convert Istanbul, Edirne, ankara, and Bursa. Then cancel deals with him and hope he picks up things with G.
-Build forces, finish GK and head for Washington.
Turn 238 (1070 AD)
Birka begins: Berserker
Swordsman promoted: City Raider III
Nidaros finishes: Galleon
Uppsala's borders expand
Uppsala finishes: Catapult
He does have an invasion force:
Turn 239 (1085 AD)
Nidaros begins: Berserker
Uppsala begins: Berserker
Remconius: bah
Avar begins: Jewish Missionary
First missionary fails
Turn 240 (1100 AD)
Haithabu grows: 6
Haithabu finishes: Catapult
Berserker loses to: Mongolian Trebuchet (2.48/4)
Turn 241 (1106 AD)
Haithabu begins: Berserker
Longbowman defeats (5.22/6): Mongolian Catapult
Turn 242 (1112 AD)
Pachacuti (Axeman) promoted: Lead by Warlord
Swordsman promoted: City Raider III
Swordsman promoted: City Raider III
Pachacuti (Axeman) promoted: City Raider III
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
Nidaros finishes: Berserker
Phrygian grows: 6
Samarqand finishes: Catapult
Avar finishes: Jewish Missionary
New Sarai grows: 5
New Sarai's borders expand
Turn 243 (1118 AD)
Nidaros begins: Berserker
Samarqand begins: Longbowman
Avar begins: Jewish Missionary
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
Birka finishes: Berserker
Avar grows: 5
Turn 244 (1124 AD)
Birka begins: Berserker
Catapult loses to: Mongolian Longbowman (6.00/6)
Berserker defeats (5.12/8): Mongolian Longbowman
Berserker defeats (1.20/8): Mongolian Knight
Swordsman defeats (1.68/6): Mongolian Knight
Swordsman defeats (2.76/6): Mongolian Knight
Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Mongolian Longbowman
Islam has spread: Beshbalik
Captured Beshbalik (Genghis Khan)
Beshbalik begins: Crossbowman
Uppsala grows: 7
Avar finishes: Jewish Missionary
Catapult defeats (2.90/5): Mongolian Longbowman
Turn 245 (1130 AD)
Berserker promoted: City Raider III
Berserker promoted: City Raider III
Avar begins: Jewish Missionary
Turn 246 (1136 AD)
Avar finishes: Jewish Missionary
Turn 247 (1142 AD)
Avar begins: Jewish Missionary
Nidaros finishes: Berserker
Uppsala finishes: Berserker
Turn 248 (1148 AD)
Nidaros begins: Berserker
Uppsala begins: Berserker
Berserker defeats (7.04/8): Mongolian Pikeman
Axeman defeats (2.60/5): Mongolian Catapult
Islam has spread: Kazan
Captured Kazan (Genghis Khan)
Kazan begins: Longbowman
Axeman loses to: Mongolian Catapult (2.75/5)
Kazan lost
Islam has spread: Kazan (Mongolian Empire)
Turn 249 (1154 AD)
Berserker promoted: City Raider I
Berserker promoted: City Raider II
Birka finishes: Berserker
Phrygian grows: 7
Phrygian finishes: Berserker
Avar grows: 4
Turn 250 (1160 AD)
Birka begins: Berserker
Phrygian begins: Barracks
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult defeats (1.50/5): Mongolian Crossbowman
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
Catapult defeats (4.30/5): Mongolian Trebuchet
Berserker defeats (8.00/8): Mongolian Catapult
Islam has spread: Kazan
Captured Kazan (Genghis Khan)
Kazan begins: Longbowman
Nidaros begins: Work Boat
Avar begins: Jewish Missionary
Avar begins: Catapult
Tech learned: Paper
Tech learned: Philosophy
Tech learned: Engineering
Tech learned: Guilds
Tech learned: Drama
Research begun: Gunpowder
Current tech status (except paper):
Spoiler :
Roster
Pigswill
Remconius
--------- catch up turns
Cam_H (10 turns)
patagonia (15 turns)
--------
Stuge
Cam_H
Cabert
MrMahk
Patagonia
The save
Nice turns Remco. 
It's too bad about the missionary failing in Istanbul. I feel that we should just let the religion issue die out (or at least not stick to it as rigorously as we have discussed). Gandhi has two religions founded, the holy building built for christianity, and liberalism is right around the corner. My bet is that he will switch to free religion very soon, which would give up any hope of the brothers of the faith bonus. We could be building units and infrastructure instead of missionaries, which I think are more important.
That was good tech trading, it's good to see that we are working our way up to (or near) the top so we can have influence and eventually be able to "police the globe" (as I am studying Teddy Roosevelt's "Big Stick" policy now)
It's too bad about the missionary failing in Istanbul. I feel that we should just let the religion issue die out (or at least not stick to it as rigorously as we have discussed). Gandhi has two religions founded, the holy building built for christianity, and liberalism is right around the corner. My bet is that he will switch to free religion very soon, which would give up any hope of the brothers of the faith bonus. We could be building units and infrastructure instead of missionaries, which I think are more important.
That was good tech trading, it's good to see that we are working our way up to (or near) the top so we can have influence and eventually be able to "police the globe" (as I am studying Teddy Roosevelt's "Big Stick" policy now
)
pigswill
fly (one day)
Good work on invading and converting. Minor detail on trading. If only Gandhi would do his bit 
.
If we're feeling drastic and in no hurry to deal with Brennus we could always declare on him (for mutual military with Gandhi) though we'd have to consider how much trouble we want to make for ourselves.
Cam_H is UP (10 turns)
patagonia is on deck (15 turns).
Edit: Time to leave our northern cities defenceless. With a couple of triremes parked next door Gandhi should notice.
.If we're feeling drastic and in no hurry to deal with Brennus we could always declare on him (for mutual military with Gandhi) though we'd have to consider how much trouble we want to make for ourselves.
Cam_H is UP (10 turns)
patagonia is on deck (15 turns).
Edit: Time to leave our northern cities defenceless. With a couple of triremes parked next door Gandhi should notice.
Yep - I thought a really good turnset too! 
I'm seeking thoughts on technology;
So, before I go and do a
, can I just have confirmation on the diplomacy?
I'll hold off for further thoughts from the rest of the roster.
I'm seeking thoughts on technology;
- Gunpowder > Chemistry > Steel bee-line
- or Education > Liberalism
- or 100%- although I doubt needed for too many upgrades at the moment in light of our existing balance.
So, before I go and do a
, can I just have confirmation on the diplomacy?- Hannibal will be our ally provided he doesn't get too far ahead of the pack, in which case ...
.
- Brennus and Mehmed are destined to be Jewish and will help Gandhi's technology pursuits. If one of them gets concerningly advanced, we can look at ...
.
- Genghis is going, Washington is next in line because of the shared border with Hannibal and the weaker overall position (and the 'loner' status due to him being Confucian and all), Isabella's inclination towards Theocracy makes her useless from a 'help Gandhi' perspective, and therefore has to go once we have Industrial Age units (to avoid problems with Conquistadors).
I'll hold off for further thoughts from the rest of the roster.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I'd go chemistry/steel coz I don't think we'll be winning liberalism and frigates with berserk grenadiers will enable us to follow the Sirian Doctrine.
Concur with diplomacy plan.
Concur with diplomacy plan.
Sounds good.
Let's continue building up bersekers, to have amphibious grenadiers
.IMHO we have enough gold to start researching again. Note I don't say we should be doing deficit research. We need the money for our migration.
If we want gandhi to get teh cities, we should leave them empty = 0 troops.
If we can get something good from GK before that, it'll avoid offering those cities to him
.
remconius
Deity
A few ideas on the next turnset(s):
-Personally I dont know G as a free religion kind of guy. Usually he stays religious in my games.
-I had only one city (Avar) building, chopping and whipping missionaries. It's high food, I built some more mines and workshops and it has a couple of forests left. One missionary is en route to mehmet, let's build 3-4 more to convert his biggest cities. It's not a big a loss to military production.
-I think the mutual military struggle is probably a good way to make friends for G. Only problem might be that Brennus lands harder than G, and we dont want B to take G's cities. But we can take them back before G approaches with units. If ever....
-Cam, what is important to remember is that we are not saving cash for upgrades, but to overcome maintenance costs in the period of transition and building up a new empire. As Cabert wrote, we should not be losing cash anymore, but we can do some light research.
-Personally I dont know G as a free religion kind of guy. Usually he stays religious in my games.
-I had only one city (Avar) building, chopping and whipping missionaries. It's high food, I built some more mines and workshops and it has a couple of forests left. One missionary is en route to mehmet, let's build 3-4 more to convert his biggest cities. It's not a big a loss to military production.
-I think the mutual military struggle is probably a good way to make friends for G. Only problem might be that Brennus lands harder than G, and we dont want B to take G's cities. But we can take them back before G approaches with units. If ever....
-Cam, what is important to remember is that we are not saving cash for upgrades, but to overcome maintenance costs in the period of transition and building up a new empire. As Cabert wrote, we should not be losing cash anymore, but we can do some light research.
pigswill
fly (one day)
We probably don't need to dow Brennus immediately, maybe it could even wait until we've got our american holdings.
We'll need a balance to tide us over the migration; 1000 gold enough? Maybe keep research 0 until we can trade/extort gunpowder, research chemistry then research 0 again until we're settled in a new home. Use excess cash to upgrade cr3 berserks to grens .
We can of course keep building berserks until we get rifling so there's no huge rush for that.
Empty the north. Build missionaries. Mehmet must see the light.
We'll need a balance to tide us over the migration; 1000 gold enough? Maybe keep research 0 until we can trade/extort gunpowder, research chemistry then research 0 again until we're settled in a new home. Use excess cash to upgrade cr3 berserks to grens .
We can of course keep building berserks until we get rifling so there's no huge rush for that.
Empty the north. Build missionaries. Mehmet must see the light.
Agreed on all fronts.
1000 gold IS enough, but if we can trade for gunpowder, it's useless to pay good money to research something we'll get anyways.
More money = faster research later =
stuge
Emperor
Well, everything I'd have said has already been said so I'll just give Cam my royal acceptance.
"Jolly good, dear sir, do proceed."
"Jolly good, dear sir, do proceed."
[Edit] Images removed. [/Edit]
Played my ten turns (1160AD – 1220AD), and best summarised by; continuing to beat up Genghis although lost a few units in the process (including a 97.2% loss of a City Raider III Berserker against a Longbow …
), and ‘two out of three’ with the spread of Judaism in the Ottoman empire.
We are still at war with Mongolia, and should take Turfan next turn - then probably a peace treaty should be negotiated. No technology trades this round, although I asked both Hannibal and Mehmed to gift us Gunpowder, without luck. Mehmed snagged Liberalism.
Preturn: 1160AD
Remco left the game in good shape. Some terrain development will be needed in a few ex-Mongol cities. I decided to upgrade three Spearmen into Pikemen.
Turn 1: 1166AD
Yes, it’s true, we are Glorious!
Brennus wants to reopen trade with us, offering Silk for Corn. Reluctantly no – we don’t want you to have any more negative modifiers with Gandhi. Our catapults took to Ning-Hsia’s defences.
Turn 2: 1172AD
Washington demands Astronomy, which we decline.
Having lost the home of Islam, Genghis flips back to Judaism.
Fantastic news! Gandhi pops a Great Prophet … we can expect The Temple of Solomon in the next few turns!
We attack Ning-Hsia, where the abovementioned 97.2% Berserker R.I.P.s
! But, desite that, the city is now ours.
In a distant land, our Jewish Missionary arrives in Bursa, and lo-et-behold, the faith is spread.
Turn 3: 1178AD
Berserkers line up at the doorstep of Bactrian. The first one confidently goes in at 78% odds …! Thankfully the next two take the city … as scrappy as the city's Fat-X terrain is, we keep it anyway – not wanting another tribe to settle in a culture-free hole on the coast of our landmass.
Turn 4: 1184AD
Brennus and Isabella make peace.
Muster troops to head to Tiflis.
Turns 5-6: 1190-1196 AD
A mini-stack approach Tiflis, and begin the erosion of the city’s defences. Other troops arrive later.
Turn 7: 1202AD
Mehmed offers to exchange maps. No harm in that I guess, and make the exchange, which uncovers about five ocean tiles.
We take Tiflis! Turfan is next along the southern coast, and is protected by three Longbows, a Pike, and a Trebuchet – certainly ‘do able’. A nagging in the back of my mind is pressing me to sue for peace now, but I want “just one more” Mongolian city ... Genghis won’t throw Gunpowder into the peace offering.
I’ve also got an even more nagging voice in the back of my head … it’s English, Berkshire accent maybe? Anyway … its saying something about Freddie Flintoff and a paddle boat … no wait … it’s saying that we should abandon our northern cities of troops, but with war weariness and an ongoing need for city productivity, we should at least keep one defender in to keep the citizens at least semi-content. Hmmm. Gandhi, of course, makes no effort to invade, and this is becoming more than a little concerning.
Waiting patiently for the Temple of Solomon to be built … what’s going on?
In a distant land, our Jewish Missionary arrives in Istanbul, but again the city rejects the faith.
Turn 8: 1208AD
In a distant land, our Jewish Missionary arrives in Edirne, and lo-et-behold x2, the faith is spread. Those clowns in Istanbul could learn a thing or two from the more receptive outer lying Ottoman metropolises.
We spot a Mongol Trebuchet out in the open – the only unit that can reach it is a City Raider II Catapult. At 75% there should be no problems in picking it off …!
Hannibal has a Galleon scouting our coast – it could contain a Settler party, so switch Ning-Hsia to a Settler, which can get whipped when it comes out of revolt (or switched back to something more useful if the roster doesn't think that this is the right build).
Turn 9: 1214AD
With the capture of Tiflis, the bulk of our forces turn to Turfan.
Still waiting, albeit somewhat more despondently, to hear of news of the Temple of Solomon, but no news comes.
Turn 10: 1220AD
Awww … we miss Liberalism that goes to Mehmed.
War weariness is really starting to become noticeable.
We’ve been whipping Avar without a Granary! Rearrange build! #1.
The troops are on the doorstep of Turfan. The defences are being stripped although there’s another turn to go. While I was just looking at attack odds, guess who’s finger slipped off the mouse key prematurely? #2. Sorry, I lost a City Raider II Catapult by mistake.
Temple of Solomon? Anyone want to build the Temple of Solomon?
________________
Played my ten turns (1160AD – 1220AD), and best summarised by; continuing to beat up Genghis although lost a few units in the process (including a 97.2% loss of a City Raider III Berserker against a Longbow …
), and ‘two out of three’ with the spread of Judaism in the Ottoman empire.We are still at war with Mongolia, and should take Turfan next turn - then probably a peace treaty should be negotiated. No technology trades this round, although I asked both Hannibal and Mehmed to gift us Gunpowder, without luck. Mehmed snagged Liberalism.
________________
Preturn: 1160AD
Remco left the game in good shape
. Some terrain development will be needed in a few ex-Mongol cities. I decided to upgrade three Spearmen into Pikemen.Turn 1: 1166AD
Yes, it’s true, we are Glorious!
Brennus wants to reopen trade with us, offering Silk for Corn. Reluctantly no – we don’t want you to have any more negative modifiers with Gandhi. Our catapults took to Ning-Hsia’s defences.
Turn 2: 1172AD
Washington demands Astronomy, which we decline.
Having lost the home of Islam, Genghis flips back to Judaism.
Fantastic news! Gandhi pops a Great Prophet … we can expect The Temple of Solomon in the next few turns!
We attack Ning-Hsia, where the abovementioned 97.2% Berserker R.I.P.s
! But, desite that, the city is now ours.In a distant land, our Jewish Missionary arrives in Bursa, and lo-et-behold, the faith is spread.
Turn 3: 1178AD
Berserkers line up at the doorstep of Bactrian. The first one confidently goes in at 78% odds …
! Thankfully the next two take the city … as scrappy as the city's Fat-X terrain is, we keep it anyway – not wanting another tribe to settle in a culture-free hole on the coast of our landmass.Turn 4: 1184AD
Brennus and Isabella make peace.
Muster troops to head to Tiflis.
Turns 5-6: 1190-1196 AD
A mini-stack approach Tiflis, and begin the erosion of the city’s defences. Other troops arrive later.
Turn 7: 1202AD
Mehmed offers to exchange maps. No harm in that I guess, and make the exchange, which uncovers about five ocean tiles.
We take Tiflis! Turfan is next along the southern coast, and is protected by three Longbows, a Pike, and a Trebuchet – certainly ‘do able’. A nagging in the back of my mind is pressing me to sue for peace now, but I want “just one more” Mongolian city ... Genghis won’t throw Gunpowder into the peace offering.
I’ve also got an even more nagging voice in the back of my head … it’s English, Berkshire accent maybe? Anyway … its saying something about Freddie Flintoff and a paddle boat … no wait … it’s saying that we should abandon our northern cities of troops, but with war weariness and an ongoing need for city productivity, we should at least keep one defender in to keep the citizens at least semi-content. Hmmm. Gandhi, of course, makes no effort to invade, and this is becoming more than a little concerning.
Waiting patiently for the Temple of Solomon to be built … what’s going on?
In a distant land, our Jewish Missionary arrives in Istanbul, but again the city rejects the faith.
Turn 8: 1208AD
In a distant land, our Jewish Missionary arrives in Edirne, and lo-et-behold x2, the faith is spread. Those clowns in Istanbul could learn a thing or two from the more receptive outer lying Ottoman metropolises.
We spot a Mongol Trebuchet out in the open – the only unit that can reach it is a City Raider II Catapult. At 75% there should be no problems in picking it off …
!Hannibal has a Galleon scouting our coast – it could contain a Settler party, so switch Ning-Hsia to a Settler, which can get whipped when it comes out of revolt (or switched back to something more useful if the roster doesn't think that this is the right build).
Turn 9: 1214AD
With the capture of Tiflis, the bulk of our forces turn to Turfan.
Still waiting, albeit somewhat more despondently, to hear of news of the Temple of Solomon, but no news comes.
Turn 10: 1220AD
Awww … we miss Liberalism that goes to Mehmed.
War weariness is really starting to become noticeable.
We’ve been whipping Avar without a Granary! Rearrange build!
#1.The troops are on the doorstep of Turfan. The defences are being stripped although there’s another turn to go. While I was just looking at attack odds, guess who’s finger slipped off the mouse key prematurely?
#2. Sorry, I lost a City Raider II Catapult by mistake.Temple of Solomon? Anyone want to build the Temple of Solomon?
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