SGOTM 04 - Trash Team

[patagonia]

Basic summary of my turns:

I continued the war against Mongolia until we'd got them down to one city and Khan would give up gunpowder for peace (we also got music as part of the deal). We took Old Sarai and Tabriz for the loss of a single rookie Berzerker.

Since our economy was on the verge of collapse once peace had been declared, I set about getting us some courthouses. Research has begun on Chemistry and is down to 35 turns from an initial 81 at the break even point. Unfortunately our Berzerkers don't seem to be able to pick up the pinch promotion so we've now got a couple of Combat2 CR3 ones in our stack. We've also earned our next GG who could again give us 4 CR3 Berzerkers for his trouble (one of which would be entitled to free upgrades).

Baiting Gandhi has proved less successful. I've sunk a couple of triremes and wandering caravels, but have yet to see any aggression from India. A couple of Indian galleys have started to nose around the channel between our shores, but as yet no units have tried to land, even in the expanse of Indian culture to the east of Delhi.

Unfortunately Hannibal beat us to settling on a free spot opened up on our island, and it looks like Mehmed is going to settle a trash city on a single spare desert tile between Tabriz and Old Sarai, which is annoying, but can't be helped.

On the religious front, our missionaries have only succeeded in pushing Mehmed into Free Religion, but Brennus is now a proud follower of Jehovah:



He's warming to Gandhi, but their relations haven't thawed to the point of any dealings yet.

Save

 

[patagonia]

I'm out of ideas on how to encourage Gandhi to invade unless the galley between Delhi and Uppsala picks up a couple of units. Hopefully it will, but if not the only thing we haven't tried is suiciding a couple of units into one of his cities to encourage him.

We can't really afford to expand much more until we can get India to take some of our existing cities, but our main stack and fleet is waiting in Old Sarai to finish off Khan and press on to the next target. In terms of who that should be, Washington is definitely the weakest, but Mehmed seems to be the tech leader and Hannibal could be a long-term problem for India.

 

[remconius]

Good stuff Patagonia, too bad G wont bite yet.

Time to land some units and see what he's got. Maybe piss him off a bit...
[edit] I think if we land he might whip a few units...

Trade ideas:
->Let's not kill off GK. He is friends with G and two techs up on him. Maybe G will discover something that GK wants.
->We could also trade paper and Astronomy to Brennus for 470g and hope he trades them to Gandhi for Gunpowder...

Not the best ideas, but what can we do...

 

[pigswill]

Roster
Stuge ... UP
Cam_H ... on deck (again!)
Cabert
Mr. Mahk
Patagonia
Pigswill
Remconius
Cam_H

Nice bit of warfare; its always nice to own most of a continent (except when you're trying to give it away).

No fresh ideas on enticing Gandhi. Time to land a few troops perhaps.

Don't warm to the idea of sparing GK long-term but could hang on to peace while building courthouses until Gandhi does something adventurous.

Not too keen on astronomy trade but if everyone else has it someone else will benefit from the trade.

 

[Cam_H]

The settling of Hannibal's Thaenae has 'rung a warning bell' with me. We have to patch up all of the cultural holes on our continent with junk cities, or else it will be far too multi-cultural when we're aiming for a pure Indian landmass.

I would like to propose;

• Flip Thaenae with focussing on cultural pressure out of Ning-Hsia. Theatre + Specialist Artists?

• Settle* on the tile south west of the ruins west of Samarqand

• Settle* on the city ruins several tiles to the east of Birka on the coast

• Fill an inland hole by settling* on the plains east of Samarqand

• Fill a prospective inland hole (when our culture goes through city capture) by settling* in the jungle at the tile between Uppsala and Haithabu

• Settle* on the coastal plains tile three north of Uppsala.

* Settling all of these cities will be costly, so perhaps having Settlers reserving these spots and then founding new cities as required at the first sign of an Ottoman / Spanish / Celtic / American / Cathaginian settling party's landing?

 

[cabert]

OTOH we could change targets and attack hannibal!
Do we have a good chance at taking some of his cities?

About trades, trading paper for gold is ok to me.
Trading astronomy for nothing isn't.

I'd get what GK is ready to give for peace, then look around for good trades.
If we can get something good out of astronomy (education for instance), I'm OK with it. Else, I wouldn't trade it.
It's not a cheap tech, we can still get something good out of it.
And it's not going to find a way to gandhi, no matter what you do.

About motivating Gandhi, did we leave our cities void of troops?
Did we start building cottages on the coast with undefended workers?

 

[stuge]

Okay, gotta get Gandhi across the channel. We cannot attack anyone until he takes some cities from us.

How many turns BTW? Are we still going 15 per set?

 

[Cam_H]

It's my impression that we're back to 'regular' 15 turns per set.

Best of luck with it! (or is more contemplation needed?).

 

[pigswill]

Back to 15 turns per set.

Once we've finished this round (i.e. its back to me) may look at length of sets again.

 

[pigswill]

Its gone very quiet here. Guess no-one has any new ideas about motivating Gandhi so keep trying ideas already posted.
Waiting news from stuge.

 

[remconius]

It's a toughie, hoping the "hop over and poke him" tactics help...

 

[Cam_H]

Now that we've settled our differences with Genghis and the war weariness has been dealt with, I'm much happier about the vacating the cities in the north.

Gandhi could easily settle on vacant land on the south west coast - west of Samarqand - but his track record to date hasn't been good.

We have a Chariot trying to lure him on to the peninsula south of Bombay, but maybe if we moved it away he might be more confident about settling there (within his own cultural borders on our side of the landmass?).

Agree with "hop over and poke him" ... nothing to lose.

I can't believe the PowerChart!

So - I'd say a few more Settlers for junk cities at home to stop overseas rivals from setting up on our land, try to flip Thaenae, attempt to frustrate Gandhi into an invasion, and gear up for an attack on Washington. I can't see war with Hannibal at this stage, but I'm easily swayed!

 

[patagonia]

So - I'd say a few more Settlers for junk cities at home to stop overseas rivals from setting up on our land, try to flip Thaenae, attempt to frustrate Gandhi into an invasion, and gear up for an attack on Washington. I can't see war with Hannibal at this stage, but I'm easily swayed!

Consider this a big vote against junk cities on our continent. We can't afford them, which means Gandhi won't be able to either. Better to raze any that belong to Gandhi's enemies if they prove problematic in my opinion.

Right now, Mehmed and Hannibal are the only two I can see beating India into space so we're going to have to take them down a peg or two at some point. Considering how cooperative baldy's being with our strategy though, we've probably got at least a set or two to decide who to target.

 

[cabert]

I too vote against junk cities.
And hannibal must be taken down so that India gets a chance to trade with him
It's not necessarily now but it will be needed before the end of the game anyway.
Since we have a nice UU for coastal rampage, I think the option of doing it now is serious. The bad thing is the lack of frigates to kill cultural defenses.

So my vote goes to kill America first (at least to a point where they are not a threat), then as soon as we have some frigates (4), pick on hannibal.

 

[remconius]

Right, no junk cities, but let's pick on Gandhi.

We might even have to take over a city (for a while). He needs to be forced into war production mode to build units and launch counter attacks.

Another idea is to declare on Hannibal or Washington, so G is not fighting us alone and the balance of power might be better. We could protect our east coast from foreign landings and let G "backstab" us from the west.

 

[Cam_H]

Sorry guys, but you're starting to lose me ...

Diplomacy

In post #433 I wanted very clear direction on our strategy:

• Hannibal = Our friend provided he doesn't get too out of hand.
• Mehmed + Brennus = Gandhi's friend ~ convert to Judaism.
• Genghis = wipe out or extort Gunpowder at least.
• Washington = loner and first off-shore target.
• Isabella = won't budge from Buddhism and therefore medium term target.

The response?

Concur with diplomacy plan.

Sounds good.

So why are we thinking about attacking Hannibal? Do we intend to foster positive relations with any tribe? Are we just going to take over the other continent and pretty well forget diplomacy all together?

Saving 'Old Viking Lands'

Consider this a big vote against junk cities on our continent. We can't afford them

We can afford them ... easily ... but anyway ...

Right, no junk cities

I too vote against junk cities.

(1.) As outlined above;

* Settling all of these cities will be costly, so perhaps having Settlers reserving these spots and then founding new cities as required at the first sign of an Ottoman / Spanish / Celtic / American / Cathaginian settling party's landing?

I am not necessarily saying cities - but I think that there's a good case for Settlers in waiting.

(2.) I have no idea what you intend to do if these tribes do start founding cities in our existing turf. The idea was;

... build a powerful base, and give it away. Basically we land on another island, take cities from whoever is there and gradually let Gandhi take our cities...

... so we've already got one foreigner on our lands in Hannibal, and there are several more spots open for further foreign outposts ... what's the plan? Attack everyone all at once? Or do we secure our own turf, deal with Washington, and do what we can about encouraging India to invade?

 

[remconius]

My reason for suggesting to start a war with Hannibal or Washington, is to give Gandhi the mutual struggle bonus and to feel more confident about launching an attack. The AI tends to backstab if you are fighting on another front.

Leaving Settlers ready to settle is probably a good plan, might even lure G. I am against filling all the gaps with junk cities immediately...

 

[cabert]

Sorry guys, but you're starting to lose me ...

Diplomacy

In post #433 I wanted very clear direction on our strategy:

• Hannibal = Our friend provided he doesn't get too out of hand.
• Mehmed + Brennus = Gandhi's friend ~ convert to Judaism.
• Genghis = wipe out or extort Gunpowder at least.
• Washington = loner and first off-shore target.
• Isabella = won't budge from Buddhism and therefore medium term target.

So why are we thinking about attacking Hannibal? Do we intend to foster positive relations with any tribe? Are we just going to take over the other continent and pretty well forget diplomacy all together?

OK so I'm not consistent.
But this dumb guy settled on Gandhi's island, for this he deserves to die

(1.) As outlined above;I am not necessarily saying cities - but I think that there's a good case for Settlers in waiting.

settler in waiting is good
settling to prevent another foreigner from landing is good too
settling to fill the land isn't

(2.) I have no idea what you intend to do if these tribes do start founding cities in our existing turf. The idea was;... so we've already got one foreigner on our lands in Hannibal, and there are several more spots open for further foreign outposts ... what's the plan? Attack everyone all at once? Or do we secure our own turf, deal with Washington, and do what we can about encouraging India to invade?

IMHO Hannibal is getting out of hand, and will need to be hit.
But not now. For now, we stick with the plan. If G doesn't move to take the cities, our whole strat is .

I thought about another thing : we could spread judaism to all our cities, giving him a line of sight into our empty cities...

 

[stuge]

Okay, I've palyed my set. Will post the report tonight, or tomorrow if you're okay with that.

 

[remconius]

I thought about another thing : we could spread judaism to all our cities, giving him a line of sight into our empty cities...

Excellent idea!! That will show him where our units are! And help him once he gets our cities, if he ever does...


@Stuge I am dying of suspense. Did you attack Gandhi and did he land?

Arrgh!!! Dont leave us hanging here.