SGOTM 04 - Trash Team

Not sure how many I played, but got to a good stopping point.


So, I declared on the first turn (1544 AD), as we had planned.
I bombarded Washington with the frigates we had waiting, and since my troops (nicely promoted veterans who I am grateful were left to me :D) had good odds, I attacked- with only 2 losses.
I also attacked Sicca (where our other seaborne stack was waiting) with good odds, and only suffered 1 loss.

In the IBT, after whipping multiple defenders across ex-America, Hanny counterattacked; consisting of 1 half-health numidian cavalry attacking Atlanta :rolleyes: (needless to say it was defeated).

Next turn, (1547 AD), I again attacked Sicca, reducing it to 1 defender. However, I decided to pull my seaborne troops out of Washington, as they were mostly wounded and Hanny's stack was still rather large. I also moved the seige units waiting in Atlanta towards Washington to prepare for our second attack on the city.

In the IBT, however, Hanny took Atlanta, moving about 4 cavalry, 2 rifles, and a couple assorted troops out of Washington.

So, I took my troops away from Sicca (which had been moderately reinforced) and using them with the seige outside of Atlanta, retook the city 2 turns later; killing a large portion of Hanny's offensive troops in the process.

Also in these next few turns, Hanny landed 3 troops on Tabriz (the ex-Mongol island city). After some whipping, the force was eventually dispatched.

In 1553, I took Washington after more continuous bombarding and a combined assault by land seige units and seaborne troops.

In 1559, I take and raze Thaenae (Hanny's city on our mainland).
razethaenae.jpg


I ended my set in 1565 AD. Replaceable parts will come in next turn, I assume we will be going for rifling, but here is a look at the tech tree:
techtree1565.jpg


A GG was also born in my turnset, he is waiting when we figure out a use for him.

As for the war front, we have a large force outside of Sicca- it will fall easily. I also have 3 frigates bombarding Boston (just south of Sicca) down. Here is a picture:
warfront1565.jpg


As I am one of the few players of this game who truly appreciate and put emphasis on naval supremacy, I have built many frigates in this round, a bunch are on their way towards Hanny's lands to do more bombarding and build up our "pre-emptive warning network".

Lastly, it was suggested that we find Hanny's sources of horses (rhyme :p) to hopefully pillage them. Well, one of them was at Washington (which now belongs to us) and his only other is just south of Thaspus:
hannyshorses.jpg


Here is the save.

Edit: and in case anyone was wondering, Hanny won't talk yet (not that we would want him to)
 
Got it. Had a look at it. If we were going for a domination victory then I'd be fairly happy at this point. However Gandhi is still refusing to budge. Might be time to try annoying him again. Maybe sink all his caravels. Time to start taking and razing cities, that will annoy Hannibal but weaken him as well.

Still no cunning plans. We're now up to 1565ad in the game so no rush. Probably wait a day or so for someone to come up with a brilliant insight.
Probably post some state of the world screenies tomorrow.
 
Cam puts on Devil's Advocate hat ...

My gut feel is that there is little more we can do about Gandhi's invasion ... maybe drop some weak units back on that peninsula south of Bombay (it eventually worked in my test game - he ever so slowly chased 'sitting ducks'), but otherwise we'd just be ... (I've been looking for an excuse to use this smilie!) ...
... :deadhorse:

If there's more we can do, I'm all ears, but I can't see the point in not putting a military unit back into each of our northern cities as all we're doing is maintaining a strategy that is not working - Gandhi has not been lured, and our cities are losing productivity as a consequence. These and other 'Old Viking Land' cities are however ripe for the whip. Whenever we go to war our unhappiness 'goes through the roof' and our cities quickly go
icon8.gif
... we need city defenses back there to help offset some of the war weariness or else our economy is going to be in even worse shape than it is now.

I'd be looking at rebuilding our bank balance - I was under the impression we were going to hover around 1,000:gold: while we got our emmigration sorted out. After we get Replaceable Parts I think that we need to look at running minimal :science: in order to complete some more unit upgrades. We still have 10 Berserkers and 5 Catapults, but I do appreciate that Rifles are the natural counter for Cav's, so it's at least worth a '
icon3.gif
tank'.

Mark,

Some good progress on the Carthaginian front. We're clearly 'taking the wind out of his sails' ...

... Shame that we lost some Great General units this round. :(

Thaenae was razed? Que?

Brennus has switched into Police State and is furious with Isabella, and "Has enough on (his) hands". Fortunately for her she's picked up Rifling. We might be getting an invitation to participate in the war, and I guess we're 'pro-Spain' ... for now ... ;)

Some 'micro' issues:
  • We're running Specialist Engineers in Haithbu and Uppsala ... these cities are unlikely to pop :gp: for a long time (if ever if India invades) and could instead be working on Cottaged tiles.
  • We've got a few unpromoted Frigates that could go to Navigation II and move to the warfront more quickly.
 
Some screenies:

tt4z10000.jpg


tt4z20000.jpg


tt4z40000.jpg


We're a way from rifling at the moment and our economy is basically naff. City maintenance is the obvious extravagence.

Could do some serious razing and pillaging in Carthage (are we not :viking: ).
Could change some cities to money-making (maybe old trick of part building units then switch to money when nearly built). Could even give some cities away (to Hannibal as part of peace treaty and raze/pillage later :evil: ).
 
I vote we keep much of Carthage as it's essentially what we want our new core to be. Forbidden Palace in Old America will help slash mainenance costs and we can finally start on some national wonders in our new cities. Continuing with the war until we can extort Nationalism/Education would be nice - once we've crippled Hannibal we'll be able to finish him off at our leisure should the need arise.

Razing Thaenae was the right move as it was only ever a junk city and if Gandhi won't shift we'd simply be stuck with it. Our culture filled in the gap so nobody else can settle there.

To reduce city maintenance a bit, we should gift Los Angeles to either Isabella or Mehmed (they'll probably both accept it) since that's costing us about 20gpt and will never be able to pay for itself. That's a strategy my team used to good effect in SGOTM3 where no city razing would have otherwise made eliminating rivals problematic.
 
patagonia said:
Razing Thaenae was the right move as it was only ever a junk city and if Gandhi won't shift we'd simply be stuck with it. Our culture filled in the gap so nobody else can settle there.

Thaenae was filling a gap that's now reopened - there are two very 'settleable' tiles there - the western one will fill in about 26 turns by a border pop in Bactrian, but the city ruins site will be vacant for a while without Ning-Hsia running some Specialist Artists. These holes are constant invitations for other AI tribes. If they do take that spot, they will grab the Spice Plantation again. I suspect Mehmed will be the only leader likely to settle there however as the rest of the world is or will be at war. I'm not saying it will be filled, but it's a real possibility, as has been the case twice already.

Once we; get out of war with Carthage, put a military unit back in our unhappy empty northern cities, build some more Courthouses, get The Forbidden Palace up, (State Property), and spend more emphasis on working commercial tiles, etc. etc. we'll be a lot better off. This is very fixable and I'm surprised that there's so much opposition to using small cities to improve our strategic position - tiny cities of some tactical value should not be blamed for our commercial issues.

As for Los Angeles, it's costing 15.2gpt now and it's making 6.3gpt at the current research rate (net loss of 8.9gpt at the current research rate, although is also adding 2.7 flasks). As it grows to population 5 it will be working more coastal tiles, and therefore come close to paying for itself - and there's no Courthouse there yet. I think this city's worth is its tactical position right between the Ottomans and the Spanish. Of the cities that could have been razed lately, this might have been one to go, but now that we've got it we should use it as a launching pad for a future invasion (provided not all of our attacks will be amphibious). I would not gift it for commerce-fixing reasons, but if it is a deal-sweetener for a technology, then I'd certainly see it as trading collateral.

[Edit] Pigswill - could you provide an updated roster now that I think we're back to a more regular format? I think it's ...

Patagonia - Up
Pigswill
Remconius
Stuge
Cam_H
Cabert
Mr. Mahk

... but I'm not sure [/Edit]
 
I vote against gifting Los Angeles to Mehmed.
Gifting to Isabella might be less of a problem, but it's not going to give us any real advantage. Let's build it up.
I'm the one who took it and kept it.
We're in a very peculiar situation and this "remote" city is kind of a life vest if everything goes wrong :).
 
Patagonia played before MrMahk so its my round anyway. I've got it. Will have it played and posted by tomorrow. Keep going as we are and wait for something to happen.
Did anyone notice that Gandhi got Church of the Nativity and we've been busy spreading Judaism? :lol:
Somewhere around Hannibal has built Versailles so that would definitely be worth keeping.
 
Patagonia played before MrMahk so its my round anyway. I've got it. Will have it played and posted by tomorrow. Keep going as we are and wait for something to happen.
Did anyone notice that Gandhi got Church of the Nativity and we've been busy spreading Judaism? :lol:
Somewhere around Hannibal has built Versailles so that would definitely be worth keeping.

Did you notice that although Gandhi built the church of nativity, he is still jew?
I suggested spreading judaism to increase his line of sight. He doesn't need the temple of salomon to see what's in our jewish cities (not units! move your lame a$$ gandhi!)
 
Well, I can't follow the roster!
icon16.gif


"Boo Cabert! Boo! Keep L.A.! Yay! Keep L.A.!" :lol:

Personally I think we should semi-ditch Independence Day and just get some semblance of order back to our Northern Viking cities by putting any sort of defense there ... any old unit will do! If Gandhi dares drop an invasion party, then we'll flee.

In the meantime, wipe out Hannibal a.s.a.p. and end this war weariness! Keep cities ... I don't get all of this damned obsession about upkeep and adding to our city list ... haven't we discovered CoL/Currency yet?

... and build a Settler to fill that hole left at Thaenae.
 
Well, I can't follow the roster!
icon16.gif


"Boo Cabert! Boo! Keep L.A.! Yay! Keep L.A.!" :lol:

Personally I think we should semi-ditch Independence Day and just get some semblance of order back to our Northern Viking cities by putting any sort of defense there ... any old unit will do! If Gandhi dares drop an invasion party, then we'll flee.

In the meantime, wipe out Hannibal a.s.a.p. and end this war weariness! Keep cities ... I don't get all of this damned obsession about upkeep and adding to our city list ... haven't we discovered CoL/Currency yet?

... and build a Settler to fill that hole left at Thaenae.
there is no hole [edit] to fill [/edit] at thaenae
other than that (and the boo Cabert ;)) I agree with this
 
there is no hole at thaenae

If I didn't know you were doing this on purpose, I'd :splat:
I'm referring to the hole that allegedly isn't a hole below!

[Edit] Image removed - spot for settling [/Edit]

Again ... I'm not saying that it will be 100% settled by Mehmed - but it's a real possibility.
 
... and I'm not 100% saying that my syntax was 100% correct in post #553, but it was a real possibility :crazyeye:.

We should plug it a.s.a.p. ... it was agreed i.i.r.c. that we would leave Gandhi with a pristine landmass.

... and it will steal the Spices Plantation until its borders are forced back.
 
... and I'm not 100% saying that my syntax was 100% correct in post #553, but it was a real possibility :crazyeye:.

We should plug it a.s.a.p. ... it was agreed i.i.r.c. that we would leave Gandhi with a pristine landmass.

... and it will steal the Spices Plantation until its borders are forced back.

who's gandhi? The guy who builds up nukes to invade empty cities?

I'm OK to build a "better safe than sorry" settler. But if we're going to hit mehmed anyways, I see no point in preventing him to capture this rocky site.
And no, the city wouldn't steal the spice plantation unless it has a good deal of culture to fight off ours.
 
:lol:

We should be so lucky to think that our Indian friend will make it to Fission at this rate!

I would think that Mehmed (or whoever) will get the nine tiles initially, and then have to fight a cultural war with Ning-Hsia. A.I. foreign cities often get a religion pretty quickly, so while I suspect the Spices will fall back to Ning-Hsia at some point, and indeed the city will flip at some point provided we're not at war, that for a while we'll have that annoying foreign presence on our shores.

I don't like it. I don't want it there. Fix it.
 
What's the problem? After we trash Hannibal we trash Mehmed. If he builds a city in Greater India that's just one more city to add to the list.
 
War. What is it good for? Not for prompting Gandhi into action that's for sure.

Turn 0. Did lots of reassigning of specialists and tiles, some cities producing wealth, bits of whipping, a few courthouses etc. Got research up to 50% with rifling due in 10 turns.

1568 (T1).
Capture Sicca without losses. Kept.

1571 (T2)
Lose a couple of units to cavalry. Pillage horses near Thapsus.

1574 (T3).
Capture Thapsus; razed.
Lose a couple of frigates.

1577(T4) Defence of Sicca: lose grenadier and 3 berserks to cavalry. Kill a cav, lose a cannon attacking.
Brennus asks us to convert:
tt5d40000.jpg

I decline. He declines from friendly to cautious.

1580(T5).
Defence of Sicca:lose cannon, lose grenaider, lose Sicca :blush: .

1583 (T6).
Capture Utica. Kept (Hindu shrine).

1586 (T7)
Lose Tabriz! :blush: :blush:
Hannibal rebuilds Thapsus.
Brennus is back to friendly. Makes us an offer:
tt5d50000.jpg

Refused. Oh, he's cautious again.

1589 (T8).
Retake Tabriz.
The gap is filled:
tt5d60000.jpg


1592 (T9).
Nothing much.

1595 (T10).
Raze New Tabriz. Whip final round of berserkers. Delay rifling by a turn to give the berserks time to pop.

I've also been sinking Gandhi's caravels as I encounter them. Yes, it makes him weaker but I want him to be a land power not an upgraded-frigate-based sea power. Not that it makes any difference of course ;) . He's still resting in his peninsula :lol: .

Lost a couple more frigates in sea-fights. Sundry seafood tiles have been pillaged, some still need replacing.

I've made a start on forbidden palace in Karakoram. Various buildings have been built, units trained etc.

We're losing power chaps:
tt5d70000.jpg


War Weariness is becoming problematic (ranging from -6 to -12). Next time we have a war we should bring some garrison/stack defenders.

Turned last GG into a travelling medic. I think he's still in Old Sarai along with lots of galleons.

We probably should think about peace. Restore economy a bit. Get some rifles. Hope that Gandhi starts to crack etc.

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Trash_Team_SG004_AD1595_01.CivWarlordsSave
 
Roster


Pigswill played

Remconius UP

Cabert On deck

Stuge

Cam_H

MrMahk

Patagonia

10 turns per set is plenty enough at the moment.
 
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