SGOTM 04 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I'll look at the save tonight and be able to play tomorrow mid-morning. All advice will be appreciated and probably needed. If I feel I'm in over my head, I'd like to stop at just five turns. In any event, leif's report will shame mine.
Looks like things improved under your watch, leif. But . . .
That's a concern of mine too. Any idea how the other teams are doing? Might highest score win if G fails everyone?
Did our Indian spy see any useful builds in any of G's cities?
Looks like things improved under your watch, leif. But . . .
That's a concern of mine too. Any idea how the other teams are doing? Might highest score win if G fails everyone?
Did our Indian spy see any useful builds in any of G's cities?
Checked save and, other than razing a few Spanish cities plus pillaging, I don't find much to do. Suggestions?
I am wondering why we are continuing to build units (though, other than perhaps the two available wonders and workers for G, I really haven't a better idea, unless it's time to go for score -- see above).
I am wondering why we are continuing to build units (though, other than perhaps the two available wonders and workers for G, I really haven't a better idea, unless it's time to go for score -- see above).
Frederiksberg
Deity
Maybe we should capture Atlanta to relieve the cultural pressure on Philadelphia?
Otherwise I agree that there isn't much to do. We could raze some of the interior spanish cities without risking that our borders expand.
Are there any marginally useful techs left?
See if you can bait Gandhis cavalry with workers and draw them in the direction of Uppsala, Bjørgvin or New Sarai.
Am I the only one who is starting to get bored with this game?
It seems there is no tie-breaker - only thing that counts in the race for the laurels is the end date except in the race for the wooden spoon, but I think we have lost any chance of getting that thing a long time ago.
Otherwise I agree that there isn't much to do. We could raze some of the interior spanish cities without risking that our borders expand.
Are there any marginally useful techs left?
See if you can bait Gandhis cavalry with workers and draw them in the direction of Uppsala, Bjørgvin or New Sarai.
Am I the only one who is starting to get bored with this game?
It seems there is no tie-breaker - only thing that counts in the race for the laurels is the end date except in the race for the wooden spoon, but I think we have lost any chance of getting that thing a long time ago.
This is becoming a real concern.
Spent all the time in Delhi watching War Weariness. Sorry, should have moved her about. My mistake.
As G takes our home cities, War Weariness continues to creep in.
Perhaps we should gift all cites east of Washington, to reduce our domination limit pressure, and go back and retake and raze them all, leaving the improvements to the terrain. This will provide open land for G to settle on, allow him to expand and, hopefully, pick up the pace on Research. Then he'll have our Old Core cities for productivity?
Trading isn't happening and I had hoped that he would get gifted up in tech by his new mates, but that doesn't seem to be happening either? Unless we keep W around as he is the tech leader?
G will not attack a city unless it is with a Cav unit. Enticing them out is like watch paint dry, but he shifts around Rifles to free up Cavs.
We will need to build Hydro Plants where we can in our southern area now that Three Gorges is gone. Beyond that, there are some Wonders we could build that could hurt, like Eiffel Tower, Rock n' Roll, Ironworks ...
I was a bit pressed at first by the number of units Izzie sent. I think that is over now, but we have to decide where we go from here. The status quo isn't working very well?
I don't think bored is the word. I think frustrated is the word for me.Am I the only one who is starting to get bored with this game?
It seems there is no tie-breaker - only thing that counts in the race for the laurels is the end date except in the race for the wooden spoon, but I think we have lost any chance of getting that thing a long time ago.
It will be interesting to see how the others do. I think some of the teams, based upon the score graphs, gave away more to G early on. I wonder if that made a difference?
We need to try to get in the maximum number of turns we can play per turn set or we'll have trouble finishing. We have 140 turns remaining until 2050 AD. This team has never failed to complete a game, no matter the result. Although I have had to stay up pretty late a couple of nights to do so by the deadline.
What is the wooden spoon given in honor of?
"Perhaps we should gift all cites east of Washington, to reduce our domination limit pressure, and go back and retake and raze them all, leaving the improvements to the terrain."
That seems like a make-work project. To relieve domination pressure and to relieve cultural presssure on G's newly captured cities, what about gifting New Sarai and Bjørgvin to H? That would also free us from land conflict with G, should he ever take Upsalla. I won't do it without team approval, but would like it to be discussed.
"We need to try to get in the maximum number of turns we can play per turn set or we'll have trouble finishing."
Has a deadline been established? Are we behind other teams?
Game plan:
Get workers in front of G's cavalry towards Upsalla.
Find out what G is building.
Take Atlanta.
Begin Forbidden Palace and probably some other wonders somewhere.
Raze interior Spanish cities and complete pillaging of Spain.
Beginning play. Will check in here during the afternoon for feedback and post partial turn log in about five hours.
"Perhaps we should gift all cites east of Washington, to reduce our domination limit pressure, and go back and retake and raze them all, leaving the improvements to the terrain."
That seems like a make-work project. To relieve domination pressure and to relieve cultural presssure on G's newly captured cities, what about gifting New Sarai and Bjørgvin to H? That would also free us from land conflict with G, should he ever take Upsalla. I won't do it without team approval, but would like it to be discussed.
"We need to try to get in the maximum number of turns we can play per turn set or we'll have trouble finishing."
Has a deadline been established? Are we behind other teams?
Game plan:
Get workers in front of G's cavalry towards Upsalla.
Find out what G is building.
Take Atlanta.
Begin Forbidden Palace and probably some other wonders somewhere.
Raze interior Spanish cities and complete pillaging of Spain.
Beginning play. Will check in here during the afternoon for feedback and post partial turn log in about five hours.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Lowest score.
I don't mind trying this. Maybe we should first try to get Gandhi to capture these cities?
No deadline as far as I know. It seems like many teams are struggling to get anywhere with Gandhi.
Makes good sense except that the Forbidden Palace has no effect since we are using the State Property civic that removes distance maintenance.
leif erikson said:
I also think we should finish what we started and if people can manage more than 10 turns it's fine with me - I don't think we need to discuss as often as before because the game is much simpler now and unfortunately also quite time demanding due to the huge number of units.
"Makes good sense except that the Forbidden Palace has no effect since we are using the State Property civic that removes distance maintenance."
Doesn't the Forbidden Pallace also reduce maintenace costs due to number of cities? Also, once completed, we would have the option to get out of State Property civic.
Doesn't the Forbidden Pallace also reduce maintenace costs due to number of cities? Also, once completed, we would have the option to get out of State Property civic.
I agree that G will eventually get to it. The problem seems to be that he wants to send his additional units to Hadrumentum, twice during my set!
He doesn't seem to want to move in our area until he has a Rifle in the city he captures with a Cav. So it seems to take forever!!
I had planned to retake Nidaros once Uppsala was taken, but it never happened. If Uppsala is taken, and we can see that G has some Cavs around, perhaps we can retake Nidaros and see if G will accept our proposal?
Unless something awesome occurs, like God comes down and gives G an Apollo project, I agree. It seems now we only need to contain Izzie, W and H while trying to bait G into taking our old cities...
Yes, perhaps the make-work is born of frustration. In any event, I threw it out to see if anyone would react to it. Guess it wasn't worth it?
If G sends more units to Hadrumentum, then it is clear that the AI is stuck there and gifting those cities would be the best course. Should we allow G to start a new colony "over there"?
No hard deadline. I read somewhere, tried to find it but couldn't, that sometime in late July was suggested.
Yes, good luck.
I see no harm in building it, perhaps in former Carthaginian lands?
Very tedious, will try to do more this evening. Here is the turn log and save .
CACTUS PETE
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 520-522
520 (1910AD): Up culture slider to 20% and change many city builds consistent with pre-turn discussion. Use GG to upgrade ten units in Camulodunum. Launch ground invasions versus Atlanta and inland Spanish cities.
521: Cordoba is razed without losses or change in cultural borders.
Atlanta falls with loss of one modern armored vehicle.
Phily is still bound, so will take or raze Chicago.
W now has Fission.
522: Philadelphia undergoes an American revolt, which will give time to deal with the culture imposed by Chicago and to get workers on hand to improve food production for the city. Also gives time to see how taking Chicago (which I will probably do) affects the domination limit.
Lose units to Izzie's counterattack (the AI does follow through on its attacks now).
Tempt G's cavalry with worker.
Take Chicago down to one defender and wait.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
CACTUS PETE
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 520-522
520 (1910AD): Up culture slider to 20% and change many city builds consistent with pre-turn discussion. Use GG to upgrade ten units in Camulodunum. Launch ground invasions versus Atlanta and inland Spanish cities.
521: Cordoba is razed without losses or change in cultural borders.
Atlanta falls with loss of one modern armored vehicle.
Phily is still bound, so will take or raze Chicago.
W now has Fission.
522: Philadelphia undergoes an American revolt, which will give time to deal with the culture imposed by Chicago and to get workers on hand to improve food production for the city. Also gives time to see how taking Chicago (which I will probably do) affects the domination limit.
Lose units to Izzie's counterattack (the AI does follow through on its attacks now).
Tempt G's cavalry with worker.
Take Chicago down to one defender and wait.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
There is much to keep track of and so it is tedious. 
Looks good, keep up the good work!
Looks good, keep up the good work!
Here are just two more turns -- the log and save:
CACTUS PETE
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 523-524
523 (1913AD): G will not pursue workers.
Madrid razed . . . continue to damage Spain.
Send one of Spanish spies towards India.
Culture to 30% . . . now only loosing citizens in LA
524: Raze Santiago and Murcia.
Lahore is building SAM Infantry.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
I will try to play as many more turns tomorow as I can, then I have some RL matters that will demand most of my time the next several days, so hopefully someone else will be ready to go.
CACTUS PETE
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 523-524
523 (1913AD): G will not pursue workers.
Madrid razed . . . continue to damage Spain.
Send one of Spanish spies towards India.
Culture to 30% . . . now only loosing citizens in LA
524: Raze Santiago and Murcia.
Lahore is building SAM Infantry.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
I will try to play as many more turns tomorow as I can, then I have some RL matters that will demand most of my time the next several days, so hopefully someone else will be ready to go.
RL always take priority. Thanks for doing the best that you can.
I wonder if there is a way we can set things up where we can pretty much keep hitting next turn?
"I wonder if there is a way we can set things up where we can pretty much keep hitting next turn?"
I'm thinking the same way, leif . . . have already written a proposal for that in my turn log, which I'll post at the end of the day.
Playing now, will check in.
I'm thinking the same way, leif . . . have already written a proposal for that in my turn log, which I'll post at the end of the day.
Playing now, will check in.
CACTUS PETE
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 524-530
524: After bomber survey, Military Advisor reports that G commands 14 workers, 5 longbowmen, 21 cavalry, 9 war elephants, 2 swordsmen, 7 catapults, 23 cannons, 8 machine guns, 13 artillery, 31 riflemen, 21 grenadiers, 5 SAM Infantry, 1 caravel, 1 galleon, 5 frigates, 1 ironclad, 7 transports, and 2 destroyers . . . a total of 176 units (plus whatever is in Delhi) . . . most of these useless and costly (anyone know about how many would be getting free support?), especially if upgraded
525: G gets a Great Engineer and H is no longer Izzie’s vassal
Toledo is razed and Chicago is captured.
Make peace with Spain (reject Capitulation and Pamplona), but H will not convert to Free Religion for peace, so wait one more turn
526: H has become G’s vassal. Not sure whether this is good or bad, but at least it’s interesting.
Spy enters Madras . . . Apollo Program under construction – due in 106 turns – in a starving city with little hammer production. NOT GOOD.
527: Fission mastered, begin developing Refrigeration
Reduce culture back to 20%
Domination up to 57% (can still give cities to W and some to Izzie)
Having no success tempting G.
528: Spy enters Delhi to find it starving, because G is trying to produce SAM Infantry and is not using food tiles -- no need, the ww is putting four citizens out of work, so might as well starve the dissidents to death. (Will leave one spy here.)
Other spy enters Calcutta and finds artillery being built
529: Spy enters Karachi to find a destroyer under construction at 1 hammer per turn. (Because G got off to such a good start, I failed to realize what poor city sites he had beyond the first few, and that was a terrible oversight.)
G’s cavalry finally goes after workers (successfully), but remains far from Upsalla.
530 (1920AD): Upsalla remains an Indian taboo city
Try to prepare game for next player
SAVE: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Xteam_SG004_AD1920_01.CivWarlordsSave
FUTURE ACTIONS
I do not think this game can be won from here, but I do agree that we should complete our effort. Very pessimistic that G will get out of his shell now and take any more of our cities any time soon, but I welcome someone’s effort to try to accomplish that. To have any slight chance, G will have to fully utilize Birka and Haithabu, which are presently constrained by culture and may be starving.
If I were on my own, with no sagacious teammates to advise me, then I would proceed tentatively along this line (thinking that within about 10 turns, I would be in a position to end the game fairly quickly -- unless G changes his stripes -- having made every effort):
Move third spy into India to provide ongoing intel
Launch a massive attack on G’s four west coast cities designed to significantly reduce his units – including workers – to approximately the number given free support. This would include:
Using naval units off his coast ready to bombard defenses of coastal cities
Using bombers (from NS for Delhi and from Upsalla for Lahore) along with fighters on carriers to reduce the strength of defending units in those two cities
Using the amphibious units on transports (along with everything else they are carrying, especially modern armor with collateral damage promotions) off G’s west coast to attack from the sea
Wouldn’t be terribly concerned about losing units, as we have little future use for them and, in fact, there are more in transit now (see south of Leptis).
After reducing G’s support costs, then . . .
Give up NS and Bjorgvin (and probably Upsalla as well) to W and Izzie, unless G moves on them
Get set up to re-take them and/or Nidaros, if that looks like it might be helpful sometime in the future
Establish naval early warning system, with all units paired, between G’s territory and ours – especially blocking Hadrumetum
Back well off and START PRESSING THE ENTER BUTTON
Begin Apollo program to spur G
Research all remaining techs needed for Space Race to facilitate trading
Get a non-scientist Great Person for a Golden Age (just because it’s there)
Watch the domination limit. Three American cities will get out of anarchy and expand during the next two turns. I‘ve purposely not had them build culture, perhaps sacrificing citizens to create extra time to evaluate how closely the limit is being approached.
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 524-530
524: After bomber survey, Military Advisor reports that G commands 14 workers, 5 longbowmen, 21 cavalry, 9 war elephants, 2 swordsmen, 7 catapults, 23 cannons, 8 machine guns, 13 artillery, 31 riflemen, 21 grenadiers, 5 SAM Infantry, 1 caravel, 1 galleon, 5 frigates, 1 ironclad, 7 transports, and 2 destroyers . . . a total of 176 units (plus whatever is in Delhi) . . . most of these useless and costly (anyone know about how many would be getting free support?), especially if upgraded
525: G gets a Great Engineer and H is no longer Izzie’s vassal
Toledo is razed and Chicago is captured.
Make peace with Spain (reject Capitulation and Pamplona), but H will not convert to Free Religion for peace, so wait one more turn
526: H has become G’s vassal. Not sure whether this is good or bad, but at least it’s interesting.
Spy enters Madras . . . Apollo Program under construction – due in 106 turns – in a starving city with little hammer production. NOT GOOD.
527: Fission mastered, begin developing Refrigeration
Reduce culture back to 20%
Domination up to 57% (can still give cities to W and some to Izzie)
Having no success tempting G.
528: Spy enters Delhi to find it starving, because G is trying to produce SAM Infantry and is not using food tiles -- no need, the ww is putting four citizens out of work, so might as well starve the dissidents to death. (Will leave one spy here.)
Other spy enters Calcutta and finds artillery being built
529: Spy enters Karachi to find a destroyer under construction at 1 hammer per turn. (Because G got off to such a good start, I failed to realize what poor city sites he had beyond the first few, and that was a terrible oversight.)
G’s cavalry finally goes after workers (successfully), but remains far from Upsalla.
530 (1920AD): Upsalla remains an Indian taboo city
Try to prepare game for next player
SAVE: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Xteam_SG004_AD1920_01.CivWarlordsSave
FUTURE ACTIONS
I do not think this game can be won from here, but I do agree that we should complete our effort. Very pessimistic that G will get out of his shell now and take any more of our cities any time soon, but I welcome someone’s effort to try to accomplish that. To have any slight chance, G will have to fully utilize Birka and Haithabu, which are presently constrained by culture and may be starving.
If I were on my own, with no sagacious teammates to advise me, then I would proceed tentatively along this line (thinking that within about 10 turns, I would be in a position to end the game fairly quickly -- unless G changes his stripes -- having made every effort):
Move third spy into India to provide ongoing intel
Launch a massive attack on G’s four west coast cities designed to significantly reduce his units – including workers – to approximately the number given free support. This would include:
Using naval units off his coast ready to bombard defenses of coastal cities
Using bombers (from NS for Delhi and from Upsalla for Lahore) along with fighters on carriers to reduce the strength of defending units in those two cities
Using the amphibious units on transports (along with everything else they are carrying, especially modern armor with collateral damage promotions) off G’s west coast to attack from the sea
Wouldn’t be terribly concerned about losing units, as we have little future use for them and, in fact, there are more in transit now (see south of Leptis).
After reducing G’s support costs, then . . .
Give up NS and Bjorgvin (and probably Upsalla as well) to W and Izzie, unless G moves on them
Get set up to re-take them and/or Nidaros, if that looks like it might be helpful sometime in the future
Establish naval early warning system, with all units paired, between G’s territory and ours – especially blocking Hadrumetum
Back well off and START PRESSING THE ENTER BUTTON
Begin Apollo program to spur G
Research all remaining techs needed for Space Race to facilitate trading
Get a non-scientist Great Person for a Golden Age (just because it’s there)
Watch the domination limit. Three American cities will get out of anarchy and expand during the next two turns. I‘ve purposely not had them build culture, perhaps sacrificing citizens to create extra time to evaluate how closely the limit is being approached.
Nice work CP. I'm afraid it is looking a bit difficult at this point. 
Roster:
Bede - UP
RRAU - On Deck
Sanabas
Frederiksberg
Leif
Cactus Pete - just played
Gator - haven't heard, so skip.
I am for CP's proposal because I think it is the only chance we have of getting G to do anything. In the Civ III version, it became a race to see if he would build Apollo? So the further along we get, the better.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Let's try CP's suggestion - we have nothing to loose anyway. The risk is, of course, that Gandhi will start building replacement units, but at least he will be able to increase his tech pace for a while.
I don't think we will get over the domination limit. One land tile is around 0.11%.
If Bede can carry out this plan and setup the game so that we can just press enter I suggest we encourage long turn sets. Might as well get this over and done with.
I don't think we will get over the domination limit. One land tile is around 0.11%.
If Bede can carry out this plan and setup the game so that we can just press enter I suggest we encourage long turn sets. Might as well get this over and done with.
Should we then reduce Izzie, H and W to one city sites in order to keep them at bay while we reduce our military? If this is necessary, do we need to gift and raze cities as well?
Have fun with G...
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