SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Ronnie1 · Sep 17, 2007

Good job Thrallia!

The roster order is

Lehm - in the hole
Conquistador 63 - waiting
hellwitch - waiting
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - just played
g_storrow - UP NOW
Scout 214 - waiting
Ronnie1 - on deck

I'll have more input after I see the save tomorrow.

Lehm · Sep 17, 2007

I will be out of town until wednesday and can continue playing on thursday. Skip me if you want to go on. Good luck guys and see (read) you on thursday.

hellwitch · Sep 17, 2007

Toku's town Nagoya and the Marble city are far from his capital and will be easy taken. IMO we must keep only one of them as our economy will collapse. We must raze Qin's city and then he will be more polite in the peace offers. About the research i think it is too high now. - 74gpt not allow us to get Machinary and Eng. IMO ~ 20% less research slider will be good decision.
Our keshik will be best used to cut the roads between the marble city and other Toku's towns. It can be use for pillage too.

IMO now is the time for forges as we can have them just when we got mace and crossbows. CH for the far way cities and foegies for the poruction ones as Turfan,WBridge,Beshbalik and Karak. later in Mecca too after CH.

g_storrow · Sep 17, 2007

Will have a look at the save later today.

only think i am unsure of after reading hw posts regarding pincer movement.

should i set the troop relay up?

hw I agree, I think we should set up the grand plan regarding dom/conq? I am unsure which one will be quickest as move of my victories are back door doms with UN. but I think dom would be quicker as the archipelago would make conquest a pain near the end.

Scout214 · Sep 17, 2007

Lehm said:
coment to our overall strategy:

We could keep almost every city to reach the domination limit what sounds faster then conquest vic to me. But I don´t have experience in conquest victories. It just seems very easy to conquer the big continent city by city. Even Qin will be willing to make peace when we grow beyond a certain limit or after we took his city on the main continent. I don´t think the costs will ruin us as we will have a good income when conquering cities and of course we have to stop researching.

But to reach a fast victory we need units. That´s why I am wondering why we are producing a monastery in Karak and why we are still building that library in Westbridge. As we will shut down our research soon it was the biggest mistake in our play to continue that library.
So if we decide on going for domination (I vote for that) we should keep ALL cities heading to the east.
After a time we will send our troops to the west to follow dV´s pinces strategy as it sounds faster. When we see that we have enough troops on the big continent we we should build settlers on our home island and in Mecca to spawn them on Mecca Island.

If we are going for conquest I think we should keep Sparta as it is a more or less good city with fish and two production tiles and then we should raze Corinth and Delphi (we don´t need too much time for that).

After that we go for Athens.

I agree. During my turn set, since I had been out of town and hadn't read all of the posts since, I relied on dV for consensus info but it doesn't sound like there IS consensus on this. Although I started the monastery and allowed the library to continue, my feeling is likewise that we need to focus on building troops. I got keshiks going in several places. Speed of conquest is paramount, not a leisurely buildup. The longer we wait, the better their troops will be until we encounter a civ who has far better units than we do.

I suggest that we not leave Delphi in our backfield, like we did Sal's city in the south, only to have to waste time and split forces to go back and get it later. Sorry, but that is truly a bad idea! We should be razing or taking over every city in our path, not leaving another battle to fight behind the front lines. My recommendation is to build troops exclusively and sweep away every city we encounter, in whichever direction we go. Take Delphi while we are there, getting rid of Sparta and Corinth.

The choice between Domination or Conquest should be whichever gets us done quicker. We can raze cities to let the Barbs build in their place but if they don't we should consider plunking some cities down later in the areas we take.

What happens when they have caravels, gunboats, cruisers and we don't? What happens when they have riflemen and we have macemen? It's around 1300 AD and we don't even have knights?!

hellwitch · Sep 18, 2007

To S214
First in military we are not so backwards and in the future we wont be as each AI's thech known from 3 or more AIs will come to us free after ~ at most 50 turns.
Second as we will have soon a equal units and counter to the knights - we have enough advanced in tech terms army - so the key is to make quantity and to concentrate our force right.(That is in what all human player have advantage vs AIs ).
Third - IMO our research progress soon or later will go to chemistry - which will give us the last unit type - grenadier.

g_storrow · Sep 18, 2007

sorry having a problem with my civ4 disc not working all the time will try again tonight.

g_storrow · Sep 18, 2007

sorted fine now.

I am gonig to declare on japan and take closest cirt and the 1 next to that.
I agree with hw abotu raising 1 ithink problab kagoshima is the best one to keep ( just a gut feeling) but i dont know which one to keep and which one to raise.
I will take china city and unsure whther to raise it.

Unsure what to do with delphi? i liek teh silver and the whale but are we gonig ot haev enough money. i think wait and see how the mainland is progresing.

I am gonig to raise tax rate also.

any other ideas. I will play tomorrow night.

The only problem with all this raising is that the AI will jsut fill the space when we move on wont it.

da_Vinci · Sep 18, 2007

g_storrow said:
The only problem with all this raising is that the AI will jsut fill the space when we move on wont it.

We can't afford to get our maint costs up too high, so there is a limit to what we can keep.

I think we should perhaps raze the China city first, make peace with Qin, then go for Japan ... just keep the city that gets us the marble, which will speed HE and NE.

Forges in production cities and CH in distant cities ... only one issue: do we stop the troop production to make these buildings?

dV

hellwitch · Sep 19, 2007

IMO japan's cities are very easy to reach now - so we must get them first: raze the first, keep the marble city. Then we go for Qin's town.
Why not as dV said - because we will lose 5-6 turns only to go around Athens island and this in time when we what fast conquering.
If Qin became threat we can make peace fo the techs.

da_Vinci · Sep 19, 2007

hellwitch said:
IMO japan's cities are very easy to reach now - so we must get them first: raze the first, keep the marble city. Then we go for Qin's town.
Why not as dV said - because we will lose 5-6 turns only to go around Athens island and this in time when we what fast conquering.
If Qin became threat we can make peace fo the techs.

As long as we don't feel the need for peace with Qin before war with Toku, I am fine with what hw has proposed above.

Delphi looks like another ice/tundra city, probably not a threat, and something that fresh troops moving to the front can take care of on the way later, rather than delay the veterans in their advance to take it now. Are we agreed on this? And I don't think we keep it ... we have more important cities to keep on the mainland I suspect.

Have we decided if newly built troops go east to Japan, or west at Asoka/Izzy? Same question for the stack of troops in eastbridge? That determines where our ships need to be.

dV

g_storrow · Sep 19, 2007

da_Vinci said:
Have we decided if newly built troops go east to Japan, or west at Asoka/Izzy? Same question for the stack of troops in eastbridge? That determines where our ships need to be.

dV

That sounds like the only question I would be unsure on.

da_Vinci · Sep 19, 2007

g_storrow said:
That sounds like the only question I would be unsure on.

I am tempted to follow whatever hw advises on this ... he seems to have a clear sense of how he thinks we should proceed, compared to the uncertainty that I have ... and perhaps that dedication to one path is what we need most now.

That and his psychic powers continue to prove valid ... :lol:

Hopefully we will get more input today on this ...

dV

g_storrow · Sep 19, 2007

I tend to agree at teh moment cos I dont think we are strong enogh to go in two directions. hopefully there will be a time when that wont be the case. I wont be playing yet for another 6 hrs or so.

Just one more questions. when thrallia enters his results he puts

Turn 0(1274AD): Load troops in East Bridge aboard galleys
IBT: Nothing
Turn 1(1280AD): Sparta captured and kept with zero losses, killed 4 Greek
IBT: Nothing

What is this IBT?

Thrallia · Sep 19, 2007

in between turns...that's where I log any AI related info that pops up before I get to go again. This turnset, the AI did very little except roll over for me to kill it

Also, I agree with everything else that's been said...declare on Toku, keep marble city. Raze Qin's city and try to peace him. Also agree on leaving Delphi for awhile and taking it down with later reinforcements(plus, we can't declare on Alex again for about 8 more turns anyway)

Ronnie1 · Sep 19, 2007

I agree with the plan as stated by hw and approved by dV and Thrallia!

da_Vinci · Sep 19, 2007

If we are not quite sure which way to send new troops this turnset, one solution is to spend this set making the forges and courthouses ... then we can decide later whether to send an army west yet, or keep moving east.

I think the eastbridge troops need to be ferried to the east.

dV

Conquistador 63 · Sep 19, 2007

I haven't been able to open latest save yet :blush:

, but I tend to agree with general plan and with dV's above post.

Ronnie1 · Sep 19, 2007

I think the new troops and the ones in Eastbridge should go west.
We need more galleys.
I would chop the forest on the border of Delphi.
If Cyrus is sending that galley to the south island, we will need to stop him sooner or later.

g_storrow · Sep 20, 2007

turn 0(228) 1340AD: demanded 100 in tribute from japan (he had 270 should have asked for more.)( the only sucessful thing I did!)
Landed troops near city
IBT nothing
turn 1 282 1346 ad

bombard then lost swordsman on 74%) keshik won and raized and lost galley on 68% lost two galleys to destory 1 with settler and longbowman on.
IBT:
turn 2

turn 3 1358AD
IBT persia settled on west island- left them i thoght we cant handle theem at moment. also alexander about to put city where we raised japanese one.
turn 4 1364AD - move tropps to 2nd japanese city - building forges
IBT - QSH caravel near east bridge
turn 5 - 1370AD - bombard 2nd jap city
IBT knossos put where japanese destroyed city was
turn 6 - 1376 AD 2 cats destroyed 1 swrods (68%) lost and took city tokugawa not interested in peace.
IBT -
turn 7 - 1382 AD start to move to QSH ( put two troops on hill outside city and they disappeared next turn and no message about them being destroyed axeman and spearman have had this a few times over my civ 4 years.
IBT -
turn 8 - 1388 few people unhappy not enough pop to rush in mecca and athens whipped forge Kaka
IBT
turn 9 - 1392
IBT asoka cow for dye probably bad idea as ew dont have any unhealthyness.
turn 10 - 1396
IBT - barbar have maceman but only on our island.
1400 - sorry I moved a few troops this turn before I recognised

I concentrated on forges and courthouses. messed up with athens as we were 1 pop short of whip but he was starving 1 pop a turn i failed to notice until too late!
Didnt do much with western troops as not enough to start war with so just moved them back into our territory.

Pretty unsuccessful turn set.
session log

Spoiler :

SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Deity

Gypsy Jester

Prince

Prince

Pawn in the game of Civ

Prince

Prince

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Prince

Prodigal Staffer

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

Prince

Similar threads