SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Ronnie1 · Aug 29, 2007

And for the invasion - at least 2 spears in the first landing group(2 spears,2 Cover+shock axe and the two 6 exp cats go on the first turn). It is better to use the island for troops storage. About the City attack - we must be fast if we land all the troups in 2 turns(using the island) the town must be down on the third. We have 2 cats at 6exp - CR1 +acc for them and the town will have 0% on the second turn.
The biggest problem will be HAs. Sal will have 4-5 at least

If Sal has that many HA's, we'll need more spears I think. How many HA's has he been landing in his attacks on Westbridge?

Are we worried about losing the block on the coast tile?

Attention!!! Toku and Alex already have Alfa in this save!!!
Toku will make peace for teology but we must not make this peace now.(i bet he will even offer this peace soon) I prefer to wait till the other AI got Alfa which will happend very soon and make more peace deals with teo. Also we need peace when our cities are 1 turn from pop so R1 dont make peace just keep watching the tech trade screen closely. We can trade to Qin without problem because he is isolated but the other AI's can trade with each other so we must make all the peace deals in one turn if possible to prevent AI trade.

Are you suggesting that we make peace with as many of the main continent AI's as we can?

da_Vinci · Aug 29, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
If Sal has that many HA's, we'll need more spears I think. How many HA's has he been landing in his attacks on Westbridge?

He landed 2 HA and 2 Arch during my turn, and 3 HA and one Axe in S214's turn.

Ronnie1 said:
Are we worried about losing the block on the coast tile?

His fleet may be stuck circumnavigating our island. But we would need to block both sides of the south peninsula if he has more ships ... maybe that second combat 1 galley is needed?

Ronnie1 said:
Are you suggesting that we make peace with as many of the main continent AI's as we can?

I think yes ... the barbs don't seem to be doing much damage now ... better for us less WW and more city growth. We can always declare again when we need to.

Only reason to stay at war is if we think we are hurting them with WW, which I doubt very much.

The real question is wheter peace is worth giving them theo ... I suppose they will get and trade it themselves anyway, so why not?

But we want to wait until most have alpha, as hw suggests.

dV

hellwitch · Aug 30, 2007

To R1 - Sal have at least 3-4 HA IMO. They could be even up to 6-7 (if more we are doomed you know). Mecca will have 2-3 Archers(CG1) too. I expect that he will not send them on the first turn, maybe on the second or on the third(Thats how all the AIs act if you invade). Thats why i want fast attack - no more than 3 turns or we will fail IMO(2 turns is better). So we need many spears and 3 axes for the city attack. We must have 1 ready spearman on our island but this could be the new builded from Besh i think(2 Sals Galleys are away for now).
The bad thing is that we will get the support fee as the troops are out of uor borders. So the transportation must be very good - with 3 full galleys and the troops must be stored in our own territory before the load. I think a road on our most South tile will be usefull. The whole stack IMO must be around 12 units(4 spears, 4-5 Cats , 3-4 Axes or swords - this will give us the best chances for success with 2 turns attack on the E tile of Mecca). 3-4 turns in preparations are needed because we have a wounded spear and 2Cat+Axe to come near WBridge.

Lehm · Aug 30, 2007

But we will need the spears only to defend our landing troops as they are too weak to attack. In any case it will be the archers which will defend Mecca against our spears. Only the last units will be HA. So 2 - 3 spears should be enough IMO. If we can manage to have more of course is better but mainly we need axes and swords. 5-6 swords/axes should be enough IMO. The rest is cats as many as possible but 4 is the minimum.

Ronnie1 · Aug 30, 2007

I intend to play tomorrow. Please keep the advise coming. As it stands right now, I favor hw's troop breakdown. Since Sal has been landing as many HA's as he has, I'd guess that he has 4-6 running around his home island. I think we will be in trouble if we don't have enough Spears to protect our Axes and Swords. If they take damaged on defense, they will have no shot at taking Mecca in 2-3 turns.

Thrallia · Aug 30, 2007

When I checked out Mecca, he only had 2 archers in Mecca, the rest of the troops there were only being housed in order to send them to attack us.

From the looks of the attacks he sent at us, he is only keeping 2 units in Mecca the turn after he sends out his attacks...so I think we're in good shape if we are able to attack Mecca within the next 5 turns.

hellwitch · Aug 31, 2007

If we attack without enough spears the HA spam will kill us. We nee not more than 3 Axes as the city wont be problem. The problem will be if he send 6-7 HA and if he succeed in 50% of the attack = contest for the wooden spoons as we are already behind.

Anyway i am on a holiday next week. So i wish you success with Sal(IMO it want be easy).

Ronnie1 · Aug 31, 2007

I have played 5 turns.

They did not go so well. Here is a recap.

Inherited turn - moved units south or healed, promoted Spear Medic.
IBT - Toku wants Theology for peace, I say no!
T1 - move south or heal.
IBT - Sal lands settler + archer on south tip. Barbs lose Polynesia to Spain. Qin builds Chichen Itza.
T2 - Kill Sals Archer, Load Galley's, Change to Missionary in Westbridge.
IBT - Nothing
T3 - See Mecca (2) Archers + (1) Axe, Losing 3g/t at 0%Science.
IBT - Great Library built IFAL.
T4 - Land (3) Spears + (1) Axe in Forest next to Mecca, See (3) HA's + (1) Archer + Settler on Horses.
IBT - (3) HA's attack and all lose, but 2 spears are left ~2 health and 1 @ 0.4
T5 - Mecca now has (2) HA's, (1) Axe, (2) Archers, Settler, Galley. (1) Archer on Horses. I land (1) Axe and (1) Cat and heal Spears.
IBT - Attacked hard, lose (2) Spears + (1) Axe, Last Axe damaged (3.3), Last Spear damaged (2.8) Cat is undamaged.
T6 - Saved at beginning of turn to discuss options.

I uploaded the Save

Here is the Upload Log

Spoiler :

The Autolog is here

Spoiler :

I think we should withdraw the Spear and the Cat to the island this turn and the Axe next if he survives. Build more Spears and Axes and Try Again!

da_Vinci · Aug 31, 2007

My first thought, not at the game right now, is that we may need to keep ships on the coast, to withdraw wounded troops to heal as we cycle fresh ones in to the forest square. We could win a war of attrition on that square with that approach, and eventually take Mecca. He did lose 6 units to kill 3 of ours ... he can't keep that up forever, can he?

This would mean we need another promoted galley I think ... Turfan or WestB would have to build it I think.

dV

Lehm · Sep 1, 2007

Doesn´t sound good. I think you´re right with saying we should withdraw to safe our units. I also agree to another galley to land more troops in the first landing.

@ R1

Did you only heal the wounded units or did you fortify them? Or is there no difference between those two options? I mean it would be better to fortify all landed units to give them the fortification bonus instead of just healing them. But I am not sure if there is a difference...

Thrallia · Sep 1, 2007

no difference...healing just fortifies them until they reach full health again, at which point they automatically stop fortifying. Otherwise, you have to keep watch on them to make sure you don't leave them fortified too long.

da_Vinci · Sep 1, 2007

Thrallia said:
no difference...healing just fortifies them until they reach full health again, at which point they automatically stop fortifying. Otherwise, you have to keep watch on them to make sure you don't leave them fortified too long.

Not sure what "fortified too long" is refering to ??? :confused:

Unless you mean fortified longer than needed to heal?

The heal command, as I understand it, keeps them in place healing and fortifying, but once healed they return to the active move cycle (remain fortified but they come up in the move queue the turn healing is done). If you give the fortify command, my understanding is that they heal and fortify just as fast as the heal command, but after healed they are still out of the active move cycle (so you might forget they are there ! :eek:

).

I guess that is what Thrallia is saying? Or am I fuzzy on this?

dV

Lehm · Sep 1, 2007

That is exactly what Thrallia tried to say. My concern was if one only heals a unit will it lose the fortify bonus the turn it awakes again? In this case it could be better to fortify a unit. Of course one has to keep an eye on it not to forget the unit.

Ronnie1 · Sep 1, 2007

I believe it makes no difference, units gain 5% defense bonus every turn they do not move up to a max of 25%. Sal just hit us with at least 7 HA's over 2 turns. We need more Spears. Since it seems a majority is good with the regroup strategy, I'll try to play 5 more turns later today and get a new save up.

Ronnie1 · Sep 1, 2007

I played 5 more. No real news.

The Upload log

Spoiler :

The Autolog

Spoiler :

The roster order is

Lehm - Up Now
Conquistador 63 - on deck
hellwitch - in the hole
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - waiting
g_storrow - waiting
Scout 214 - waiting
Ronnie1 - just played

da_Vinci · Sep 1, 2007

Lehm said:
That is exactly what Thrallia tried to say. My concern was if one only heals a unit will it lose the fortify bonus the turn it awakes again? In this case it could be better to fortify a unit. Of course one has to keep an eye on it not to forget the unit.

I think a unit remains fortified unless it moves ... so you can awaken it, then give it the fortify command and it remains fortified at its previous level, as long as it has not moved. But I will check to be sure.

dV

Lehm · Sep 2, 2007

I got the save and probably will have a look at it tomorrow. Please feel free to give some advise already...

Ronnie1 · Sep 2, 2007

Please feel free to give some advise already...

I would land defensive forces first, just like I did, and hope we get luckier on our combat. I believe our plan was solid, 7 HA's were just too many. We are going to need to pillage those horses sooner or later.

Sal will probably land the settler/archer next to our C2/Cover Axe just like he did before, easy pickings!

We can keep Sal's 2 galleys in limbo if we close the coast after we land the next full party at Mecca. He will sail east when it is closed and return west when it is open. 1 galley moving troops to the island can block it every other turn, causing Sal to sail in circles.

Build troops, we have a missionary building in Westbridge for Beshbalik. We could pop rush it soon if we wanted.

I am chopping the last forest in Turfan to speed troop production.

Good Luck!

da_Vinci · Sep 2, 2007

My only thought is that we might need a 4th galley to land 8 at once ... 4 axe and 4 spear or a 5/3 mix ... swords in forest might not be a bad antidote for HA as well.

So we might want to be making that 4th galley, if six at a time proves not to be enough ...

dV

Ronnie1 · Sep 2, 2007

I think we need to go soon, before the 4th galley can make a difference.

SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

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