SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

[da_Vinci]

Is there a diplomatic play to be had by a brief time at no religion? That would make us 0 with Alex, maybe we could trade? Or will we just get all that from the war anyway, so not necessary? It is NOT on aggressive AI, so this might work? Or is Alex ornery?

He won't give all for peace easily, and Toku has compass (Caravels to get our galleys), so if we get two off Alex in trade, then get 1 or 2 by war ... ? I guess we are not his worst enemy now?

Trade with Alex will sour Qin, but that looks pretty hopeless now anyway.

War with Sal ... all he has is lit, and his research must suck. But why not take the workers, get the sack/pillage cash, by killing off the rest of his cities on the island, then that mop up army can go take out the Greek cities on the Corinth island, or finish off Sal in the NE to end motherland yearning in Mecca. The pillage cash would allow faster research. Sal will never be a source of techs, he is too poor.

If we do that, Mecca will have idle citizen until we revolt back.

So either right away, or after trade with Alex, we should land in the forest near Corinth, raze Corinth or at least pillage his iron, then go for Athens. We can pillage the athens horse and copper while we bombard him down, if necessary.

Westbridge is back making the library ... if it works all hills, can make galley in 8, if lack of transport is an issue. We need one there to take the settler west with some troops. Then that one can ferry workers home from Arabia, as we need them in WestIlse

dV

 

[hellwitch]

War with Sal is not a must but can be done as hi will hook the iron. Lit is small benefit as we will gain it free after some 10-15 turns. Mecca whip mad face will disapear after 4 turns so happiness will be a trouble but not too much.

About the war plan i think that geting athens first is the best war plan as the big bonuses are there. We will loose some turns in razing Corinth but that way we can transport 20 troops in 2 turns from Corinth isle to Athens so both plans will work IMO.

The only thing i want to be done is 1-2 keshiks (in the first group) or we can face the landing problems from Mecca battle.
For WestBridge - it need to grow IMO and we dont need this galley right now.

The diplo - no religion can allow us to trade with some of the AI - the problem is that we dont have tech to sell. The exp boots is good for now and i dont think it worth to try no state rel.

 

[Ronnie1]

Nice work C63! I'll have a look a little later.

The roster order is

Lehm - waiting
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - waiting
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - Up Now
g_storrow - on deck
Scout 214 - in the hole
Ronnie1 - waiting

 

[Thrallia]

I agree that going to no religion will not give us any measurable benefits over what we're getting right now from having religion(especially once you take into account the two turns of anarchy switching to and from no religion would give us)

 

[Conquistador 63]

I also agree with Thrallia's above analysis.
About a galley near Westbridge, it could pick up the idle worker (or more than 1, if we decide to DOW Sal again) then load them with settler for West Island city.

 

[da_Vinci]

I am fine not going to no religion ... just wanted to bring it up for discussion.

How fast do we want to build up WestIsle? How soon is that settler done in Karak? How many workers does it need? The issue of whether to grow Westbridge now or make the galley now is relevant to how fast we can get WestIlse up and running. I think faster to WestIlse is the way to go.

If we don't need the galley on the east coast for troop transport, we can use it for WestIlse and don't need to make one in WestBridge. If we need that one to move east for troop transport, then we should make one in WestBridge IMO. I think that will be warfighter's choice (that's you, Mr. T )

That also influences the war with Sal issue. Two free workers for WestIsle looks good to me, more conquest and pillage cash, and then those troops are free to back up the main attack. I don't see much reason to leave Sal hanging on any longer ...

War on Greece ... we should know what is in Athens soon as the galley swings round. Even if there were no city to raze, i think massing on the intermidiate island to get the whole force to Athens in a few turns is the way to go. Sack of Corinth ensures he does not get iron back up very fast, while we wait for the army to arrive.

dV

 

[hellwitch]

I agree to sack Corinth first because alex wont have troops there and we can make 'fast' attack vs Athens from there. I just would like to have a keshik in the stack because it will be a counter to possible crossbows and can pillage and move - which is good for the future pillage of alex iron.

One other thing - monastery in karak? IMO it will be good to be able to build monks not only in fronter city as it is now WBridge. the 10% research is welcome too.

As the conquest of greece is the obvious next step i would like to give attention on the strategy after that.
I saw Qin's town(old alex town) on the main land near alex. Maybe if we raze this town we can make peace with Qin?
IMO we could go vs Asoka and Izi next on th west afte alex campain.

 

[da_Vinci]

A keshik or two in the stack makes sense to me.

dV

 

[Ronnie1]

I vote declare on Sal, steal the workers, raze that city. I think Sal will give up another tech if he is down to 1 city.

If/When we go for Corinth to open the war on Alex, we should land defensive troops first, those Cats on the galley need to off load in Eastbridge and wait for the second wave of landings.

I think it works to start with Corinth also, but we need to be quick about it. Raze it, pillage the iron, and move to Athens.

 

[da_Vinci]

I vote declare on Sal, steal the workers, raze that city. I think Sal will give up another tech if he is down to 1 city.

Sal has two cities on that island, and a third NE of us IIRC. I think we take out BOTH on that island now, then those troops are free to join the main assault, or to mop up the corinth island, or to take Sal's last city.

If he gives us lit, then I think he will never have a tech that we don't already have, so his usefulness to us will be finished. And we can finish him.

If/When we go for Corinth to open the war on Alex, we should land defensive troops first, those Cats on the galley need to off load in Eastbridge and wait for the second wave of landings.

Sounds right to me.

I think it works to start with Corinth also, but we need to be quick about it. Raze it, pillage the iron, and move to Athens.

Agree here too.

dV

 

[Ronnie1]

Sal has two cities on that island, and a third NE of us IIRC. I think we take out BOTH on that island now, then those troops are free to join the main assault, or to mop up the corinth island, or to take Sal's last city.

If you go into diplomacy with Sal, it says he has 1 city Najran (NE of us), leaving only the capitol in the south.

EDIT: I like the idea of Keshiks also, but I don't think we should wait for them.

 

[da_Vinci]

If you go into diplomacy with Sal, it says he has 1 city Najran (NE of us), leaving only the capitol in the south.

Hmm ... have i been laboring under the misconception that Sal had two more cities on the Mecca island? maybe the shape of the cultural border led me to that without counting cities in diplomacy?

Even better! Doesn't matter if it is one or two, just that we wipe him out on the Mecca island now.

dV

 

[da_Vinci]

As the conquest of greece is the obvious next step i would like to give attention on the strategy after that.
I saw Qin's town(old alex town) on the main land near alex. Maybe if we raze this town we can make peace with Qin?
IMO we could go vs Asoka and Izi next on th west afte alex campain.

What about going for Toku and his marble, research lit and build HE and NE? The army of the Greek campaign will already be there ...

Might be able to do that after your peace with Qin move.

dV

 

[Ronnie1]

What about going for Toku and his marble, research lit and build HE and NE? The army of the Greek campaign will already be there ...

Might be able to do that after your peace with Qin move.

dV

I would have to agree with dV here. It just makes sense to move straight onto the mainland east of Athens. And we will want to try and hurt Japan before they get Samauri.

@ Thrallia, What are your plans for this turnset?

 

[hellwitch]

attack toku after alex with the same troops is no brainer. The problem is that Cyrus will fill the razed town positions fast and will became even stronger than now. IMO there is better situation in the West of the mainland for invasion - We can use Ayran(the barb city) as a base. Asoka is week and and some of his cities will be covered by barb's culture after they are razed. The geographical situation for war vs India is very good.
This war(in the west) must be done with new created troops which will be builded during the war vs Alex. At least we must send some support for the barb city.
The situation in the east is no so good - there are lot of cities to conquer till we reach Toku or Cyrus core cities and the capitals. These two civs are in a good shape now and the progress in a war vs one of them will be slow. Our best chance is to take advantage of a war between our main rivals - Toku, Cyrus and Izzi. The dilo situation is good for a bribe once we go to no religion. We have some positive diplo points with some of them(Toku) this can help too. For a campain is the east we must consider is it worth to keep Qin's town on the main land as a base(than depends on our economy ofcource).
Are we going after Qin in the future? Thats a metter of the victory type we will chase IMO.

All this thougths are just reminder for our future.

 

[hellwitch]

About the keshiks - they will be greate on the mainland with their movement. Too bad that they will be obsolete soon(after Guilds).

 

[Thrallia]

I would have to agree with dV here. It just makes sense to move straight onto the mainland east of Athens. And we will want to try and hurt Japan before they get Samauri.

@ Thrallia, What are your plans for this turnset?

unfortunately, I'll need to swap back 1 turnset...I have my disc, but I won't have the time available to devote to my turnset until Saturday.(my XOTMs are in trouble as well...I haven't even started WOTM 12 or GOTM 22 yet )

 

[Lehm]

@ Thrallia:

GOTM 22 probably will be a fast one. No chance of winning this game without cheating IMO.

 

[g_storrow]

attack toku after alex with the same troops is no brainer. The problem is that Cyrus will fill the razed town positions fast and will became even stronger than now. IMO there is better situation in the West of the mainland for invasion - We can use Ayran(the barb city) as a base. Asoka is week and and some of his cities will be covered by barb's culture after they are razed. The geographical situation for war vs India is very good.
This war(in the west) must be done with new created troops which will be builded during the war vs Alex. At least we must send some support for the barb city.
The situation in the east is no so good - there are lot of cities to conquer till we reach Toku or Cyrus core cities and the capitals. These two civs are in a good shape now and the progress in a war vs one of them will be slow. Our best chance is to take advantage of a war between our main rivals - Toku, Cyrus and Izzi. The dilo situation is good for a bribe once we go to no religion. We have some positive diplo points with some of them(Toku) this can help too. For a campain is the east we must consider is it worth to keep Qin's town on the main land as a base(than depends on our economy ofcource).
Are we going after Qin in the future? Thats a metter of the victory type we will chase IMO.

All this thougths are just reminder for our future.

Sorry about lack of posting. I agree with most of this but the main problem what do we do with the troops that has got rid off alex do we take them by ocean to teh other side of containent, that is risky and tiem consuming or do we land them and pillage and hoep to destroy a few cities but not really bothered. I think the best would be too but them in 1 or 2 stacks and pillage are way accross main island.
I think we leave qin ( i didnt know he was at mainlaand?)at the moment and sort the big island out after the greeks.
Which cities of the Greeks are we gonig to keep? Apart from Athens corinth looks nice.
I think we get rid of Sals city on our tundra and leave him hopefully with 1 city and literature.

I am away this weekend so can i be partially skipped until next early next week.

 

[da_Vinci]

Let's see here ...

Thrallia needs to wait until Saturday to play, g_s would be the one to jump in ahead of Th, but can he? Going away this weekend ... g_s, are you able to play before you leave?

If not, maybe just easier to wait for Thrallia to play on Saturday rather than rush g_s or rush someone else up to the front?

If you are able to play g_s, I think the rest of us are thinking to raze Corinth to avoid escalating our maint costs ... would have to reconsider the idea of keeping it ... what do others think about that?

dV