SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

da_Vinci · Oct 20, 2007

Nice job Lehm! :goodjob:

Asoka is weak ... I say we go and take Bombay, and hold it. It seems far enough away from most other cities to not be too culturally pressured, and might be a good FP site (let's build that sooner rather than later ... I think one of my solo game errors is to wait for a "perfect' spot, rather than build sooner in a good spot). Takle Aryan, give it back to the barbs if possible, or keep it too, then raze the rest of India.

Use the conquest cash to fund research of chemistry, then steel. Might switch distant cites to commerce over hammers if well suited to speed those two techs. Launch a golden age soon to also speed chemistry (or not, see below). Not sure if best timing for that is after we take Bombay, or after it is out of anarchy (to speed CH and FP there). Let's upgrade those CR maces to CR grens! :goodjob:

Stay at peace with Cyrus, then hit Izzy. By then, Toku will have picked a war I suspect, maybe we join him. If lucky, it will be Izzy. If Cyrus, maybe we let them slug it out as we take Izzy.

Only wrinkle is does Izzy attack us while we are in India? With our new troops streaming in (esp during GAge), maybe not a problem, as she must worrry about Toku on her other border.

If we go after Izzy first, Barcelona has to be the target, I think. But I suspect if we hit Asoka the Weak, we lose fewer troops, get some promotions, and are stronger for Izzy next. And we can't get Izzy for 10 turns (just made peace)

There is a research option I suppose ... Printing press gives +1 com from village and town, so it is like a permanent commerce golden age. The G scientist will bulb 2583 of the 2600 or so left, so we get it next turn. Then go to chemistry?

Athens is stuffed with cats now ... let's stop production there and run scientists to get chem/steel faster. Plus another GSci eventually.

Scientists in Karak as well, I think.

Beshbalik is running three 2F 1H farms ... and not the 2F 3C, 2F 2C, 2F 1C cottage series it could run, all of which will be one more commerce after PPress

Meanwhile, Turfan, with HE, is not working a 3H and a 2H tile ... Maybe it is the shifting tile allocation with save transfer thing ...

In eastbridge, I still wonder if giving up the iron and working the sea for growth isn't its best use.

Mecca is working a 1F 2H tile, but not a 2F 4C tile ... I think we can afford to give up one hammer for 3 to 4 commerce where we can. I might work more cottages for growth in Mecca, after growth the hammers can be worked. Especially after PPress, when the cottage series is +1C.

Cordoba and Valencia need granaries IMHO ... whip it in Cordoba, change to it in Valencia.

So I like using GSci to finish PPress, selectively switch to commerce tiles in some cites (see above), to speed chemistry. Run scientists in Karak and Athens. Push commerce and growth in Mecca. Other than Karak, Athens and Mecca, push hammers and troops. Except our colonies in Spain, which need granaries. And I would give up a one hammer tile for 3 or 4 commerce (except in Turfan with HE).

Can't hit Izzy for 10 turns, so go for Asoka. Keep Bombay and Aryan (back to barbs if possible), raze the rest.

dV

Ronnie1 · Oct 20, 2007

Nice Work Lehm!!!

The roster order is

Lehm - just played
Conquistador 63 - UP NOW
hellwitch - on deck
da_Vinci - in the hole
Thrallia - waiting
g_storrow - waiting
Scout 214 - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting

dV is right on the tile use issue, we must use the higher value tiles first. We must not forget that we can convert food to hammers with the whip, but there is no way to convert hammers to commerce. I also like the idea of specializing the cities farther from the front for Science or Commerce. The person grabbing the new save must always check tile use in EVERY CITY as there are known problems with tile switching on loads from downloaded saves. Hammers near the front for troops, Commerce in the rear to support the front!!!

I would come off the Copper mine in Athens and work the plains cottage or a coast tile for faster growth to another specialist.

I agree with keeping the pressure on Asoka now!

I am surprised by the lack of Barb cities going up. It seems like in my solo games the barbs a very quick to settle spots where there are no units fogbusting.

If we MM tile use a bit and run deficit @ 60% SCI, we can have Printing Press in 11 turns without burning the GS on the tech, faster if we were to start a GA with the 2 GP's.

We should consider changing civics to Mercantilism, and Organized Religion if we are going to stay Jewish. Theocracy is doing us no good unless we are Christian.

Unfortunately Izzy must have discovered a hidden stack of conquistadors somewhere in her territory. A big amount of units took back Cordoba 2 times. After 19 turns I decided to make peace with her because we were not able to make any progress in the war.

I believe I warned you about that possibility. We had a similar issue last game when we assaulted the other continentthe first time, ouch!

da_Vinci · Oct 20, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
If we MM tile use a bit and run deficit @ 60% SCI, we can have Printing Press in 11 turns without burning the GS on the tech, faster if we were to start a GA with the 2 GP's.

So what are you saving the GS for? The GAage? Why not get the PPress now, get started on chemistry 11 turns sooner? And we get added commerce right away from the PPress, and there is still the prophet for a GAge with the next GPers?

I can live with your option (I was proposing something like that at the start of my post), but I think the faster to chemisty the better.

Ronnie1 said:
We should consider changing civics to Mercantilism, and Organized Religion if we are going to stay Jewish. Theocracy is doing us no good unless we are Christian.

Does OR do us any good if we are Jewish? Don't all those religious civics only work in cities with state religion? I guess it helps the newly conquered cities

It takes 2 turns of anarchy to change 2 civics ... is OR worth that? But if we go merc to get free specialists, maybe representation for the extra science from each one? Now that we have peace all around, might not need police state. But the 25% troop production rate is nice ... do we prefer fast chemistry or faster troop production?

dV

Lehm · Oct 21, 2007

I had the change to other civics in mind too but I thought that mercantilism won´t give us foreign trade routes and hey... look at Karak for example. It´s getting 12 gold or so from Persian cities. Wouldn´t we lose a lot of money from changing to mercantilism or did I misunderstood something???

And changing to Organized Religion is like dV already said. Only the jewish cities will get the bonus and furthermore it´s more expansive. And we have to stay jewish to keep OB with Cyrus.

Unfortunately I made the mistake to go for Printing Press and not for Chemistry. Sorry about that.

@ R1:

Yes, I had your warning in mind when attacking Izzy. But after I took Cordoba a stack of about 12-15 units approached which I thought to be THAT stack. But it wasn´t! There were a lot more than I expected.
I have to admit that I didn´t know how great those conquistadors are... at least for Izzy.
They even get a defence bonus on wooden and hills tiles.

By the way. If I remember right Toku already has grens....

Conquistador 63 · Oct 21, 2007

I agree with dV's ideas. However I won't be able to play today. Therefore I suggest swapping my turnset with dV so he plays today and I play next one tomorrow, speeding up our team's gameplay. What do you say?

da_Vinci · Oct 21, 2007

Conquistador 63 said:
I agree with dV's ideas. However I won't be able to play today. Therefore I suggest swapping my turnset with dV so he plays today and I play next one tomorrow, speeding up our team's gameplay. What do you say?

That works for me, but that means I have to play now, which is my window today. I think we have a pretty good consensus on general plan ... I will either follow the R1 plan to PPress in 11 or my PPress next turn (bulb), after a closer look. I might just leave the civics where they are given the discussion above, we can revisit that after my turns.

So I am playing now.

dV

da_Vinci · Oct 21, 2007

Prince da Vinci looks out to the north ... the smoke is clearing to reveal the rubble of Bangalore, taken for the loss of one catapult and one mace. The army is healing in the cover of the forest, looking to move to recapture Aryan, which formerly belonged to our barbarian allies.

To the south, the prince can see reinforcements, let by a grenadier, approaching. "The chief of logistics earned his pay this day", da Vinci thinks, "realizing that taking Bombay immediately would likely lose our conduit north for reinforcements."

Still, the prince frets over the fate of Cordoba ... despite a theatre and an artist, still only 13% Mongolian, with 7% revolt risk. One revolt happened already in this campaign.

The diplomats have been successful, keeping peace with Cyrus and Izzy, trading gunpowder to Qin for 1340 gold, which allowed 100% science and chemistry at turn 395. Since Judaism is key to the peace, the priest have been building Jewish monastaries in the colonies in Spain, to go and convert the homeland to use Theocracy.

"King Conq should be well positioned to conclude the war with India", the prince smiles to himself.

Played to turn 400

At the start of the turn, several issues were apparent.

1. Santiago culture does include the Bombay tile. Taking Bombay would allow Izzy to seal us up away from the rest of India. Therefore, bypass Bombay to keep a path for troops to move north.

2. Few cats remain in Spain ... two to be exact. Spam cats and ship them west.

3. If Izzy fills the gap between Cordoba and Valencia with a city, she will cut us off from India. Whipped a settler in WestIlse, founded New Turfan in the gap.

4. Culture pressure on the Spanish colonies is an issue. Build theatres.

5. With several fast builds needed, go for the Golden Age.

Turn 381, MM as discussed, theatres in Spanish colonies, settler Westilse. Launch GA. Ppress in 8 at that time.

381-82 IT: Cyrus has rifles.

382 Whipped settler.

383 Whipped theatre in Cordoba. Cyrus asked for dye for wheat ... gave it.

385 Asoka has galleons

386 Declared on Asoka.

387 Spanish revolt in Cordoba.
Lost 1 Caravel to sink an Asoka Galleon with 2 LB and one settler.
Izzy has Rifles too, so gave Qin GPowder for 1340 gold.

390 Whipped university in Karak.

391 Asoka has grenadiers ! :eek:

394 Nice rng luck no losses defending in forest south of Bangalore. Only two cats, so a slow defense reduction.

395 Whipped theatre in New Turfan
Learned Chemistry :goodjob:

399 Took Bangalore at loss of one cat, one mace. Razed it.

400 Whipped a Jewish miss in Valencia ... destined for Turfan to convert to use Theocracy. Make more miss in Valencia!
Great engineer born in Athens. Izzy adopts Emancipation ... here comes the unhappy

I think we take Aryan, keep it. Maybe keep Karachi as well, or could raze it. Raze the one on Cyrus' border.

The army east of Bombay is planned to join the north force. The group SE of Bombay is massing for a later thrust on Bombay. After we take Bombay, we will need to go get Santiago to take the culture pressure off.

Asoka has one offshore city, so we can't take him totally out.

I am building a university in Athens ... maybe whip it later to speed steel?

dV

Spoiler :

da_Vinci · Oct 21, 2007

the Autolog

Spoiler :

Conquistador 63 · Oct 21, 2007

Since Marshall Da Vinci presented a straightforward and detailed plan, I jumped right in. However I was able to play no more than 10 turns. Small progress was achieved: we own Arian (no way to return them to barbs) and razed Karachi. The northwestern indian city shall fall easily, and Bombay won't take long either. Then Asoka will ask for peace and retire stranded in a far away island (for a while). I ran a deficit to speed up Steel but thanks to lots of cottage pillaging our treasure is stable.

Autolog

Spoiler :

Ronnie1 · Oct 21, 2007

Nice sets guys!

The roster order is

Lehm - waiting
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - UP NOW
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - on deck
g_storrow - in the hole
Scout 214 - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting

hellwitch · Oct 22, 2007

Sorry but i can't afford more then 10 minutes fo civ per day these week. Skip me.

da_Vinci · Oct 22, 2007

hellwitch said:
Sorry but i can't afford more then 10 minutes fo civ per day these week. Skip me.

For that matter, have we heard from Thrallia lately ... on any front in the forum? Maybe RL has him by the throat too ...

g_s and Scout214 should start to limber up!

Good job C63! :goodjob:

It would be nice if Toku and Izzy would go at each other ... :mischief:

As I looked at the sattelite view of the world, culture display, there was not residual barb culture in Aryan, so not surprised that we could not give it back to the barbs.

dV

Conquistador 63 · Oct 22, 2007

Well the city itself is some X% (30?) barb, but I suppose that as they're no real civ, we didn't get the option to gift it when we took it.

I sent a caravel scouting the southern coast (Spain and Japan) and there are some really pretty armies down there. But I don't believe there is much we can actively do to start a war between them (besides praying

).

Lehm · Oct 22, 2007

Conquistador 63 said:
I sent a caravel scouting the southern coast (Spain and Japan) and there are some really pretty armies down there.

I already did the same. We really need to have a huge army to do some damage to Toku... :sad:

Ronnie1 · Oct 22, 2007

The roster order is

Lehm - waiting
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - UP NOW
g_storrow - on deck
Scout 214 - in the hole
Ronnie1 - waiting

Conquistador 63 · Oct 22, 2007

Out of curiosity I searched for Thrallia's last post in CFC forums. 21 Sep, in this very thread. Given we're in a hurry to finish, maybe g_s (or even S214) should be contacted as well?

Ronnie1 · Oct 22, 2007

Out of curiosity I searched for Thrallia's last post in CFC forums. 21 Sep, in this very thread. Given we're in a hurry to finish, maybe g_s (or even S214) should be contacted as well?

I agree 100%!

The roster order is

Lehm - waiting
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - UP NOW
g_storrow - UP NOW Whoever posts a got it first.
Scout 214 - on deck, I was going to put you in the above group, but we need to give gs, a chance to see this in England overnight. So be ready tomorrow if we don't hear back from either one.
Ronnie1 - waiting

As far as strategy, I guess we finish off Asoka and then redeclare on Izzy. Maybe try to get some help in fighting her from Toku, or try to get Cyrus and Toku to battle each other so we don't have to worry about getting back stabbed while we take her on solo!

da_Vinci · Oct 22, 2007

I hope Thrallia is OK ... did he say he would be gone for a while?

I doubt we have any leverage with Cyrus or Toku.

I dropped a voice mail to S214 to be on watch.

I think we whip Univ in Athens, make JMiss in Valencia (not the pike), buld granary after JMiss in New Turfan.

We might hold off on taking Bombay until after we declare on Izzy and send in an attack force at Santiago ... otherwise, we will have a 5 turn march to get there after the Bombay culture dissappears.

We can beat its culture defense down to nothing, but hold the final blow until we move on Izzy, and pray Cyrus does not declare on us to help her.

dV

Scout214 · Oct 23, 2007

Keeping an eye out to keep the game rolling.

da_Vinci · Oct 23, 2007

Do we still have the GEng? Any thoughts on what to do with him? maybe build universities and have him rush oxford in athens? Or rush FP in India?

dV

SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Gypsy Prince

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Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Jester

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Gypsy Jester

Deity

Deity

Deity

Gypsy Prince

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Gypsy Prince

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