SGOTM 06 - Geezers

The-Hawk · Feb 12, 2008

AgedOne said:
Is there any chance of switching my turnset so that I play after Hawk, when I will have more time. At the moment I'm hardly able to even keep up with what's going on.

Oh darn, if we switch, I'm gonna be forced to continue the whupping of Alex after Sam. Tooooo bad... you know how much I hate to beat up on my ol' pal Alex :mischief:

.

Works for me...

AgedOne · Feb 12, 2008

@The-Hawk
That's good.
Ok, so you get to drive the last stake through Alex's heart, but I'll have the fun of chasing Numidians all over the countryside. (Must remember. Hold palm out flat, with sugar lump in the middle)

Sam_Yeager · Feb 12, 2008

Greek invaders by York destroyed. The bulk of Hanny's force by Kumbi is no more. From somewhere to the E of Iron city Alex has rustled up a couple of attack groups. Since I feel a bit brain dead at present I've uploaded the latest save to keep you all in the picture. I'll finish it off tomorrow as well as doing the writeup.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Geezers_SG006_AD1148_01.CivWarlordsSave

erikthecelt · Feb 12, 2008

Awesome job Sam. I love what you've done to the power curves and the others. It would be real kind of Alex to siddle up to Pharsalos and let himself be slaughtered. I am so looking forward to your write up. :thumbsup:

Harbourboy · Feb 13, 2008

Sounds good, Sam. Don't tell me we're actually getting somewhere with this game!

Sam_Yeager · Feb 13, 2008

1055 AD - 1160 AD

Summary
Athens & Pharsalos captured. Various greek and carthaginian invaders routed. More greek attackers near Iron city. Reinforcements on their way. Research has gone to pot.

Turn 237 - 1055 AD
Move stack towards Athens. Move axe on Kumbi towards worker on rice.

IBT: Alex sword appears to NE of stack.

Turn 238 - 1070 AD
We learn MC and start on Machinery. London chariot -> forge, Nottingham axe -> axe, York cat -> cat, Iron city spear -> axe. Move stack to gold hill E of Athens. Take SS and pause to consult with team.
Promote London chariot with Flanking 1 & Sentry and send southwards. Move sword, axe and cats towards elephant city. Axe arrives at Kumbi rice worker. Send worker to mine hill SW if Kumbi.

Turn 239 - 1085 AD
Nottingham sword -> sword. Bombard Athens.

Turn 240 - 1100 AD
Iron city axe -> axe. Complete reducing Athens defence to 0% and move majority of units across river. London forge is :whipped:

for 2 pop. Worker SW Kumbi spies a couple of Hanny stacks (2 numidians,2 cats and 1 numdian, 1 sword, 1 axe, 2 cats) heading towards Kumbi. Spear in Kumbi, cat in York, and sword in Nottingham are all :whipped:

. Move cat to hill SW Kumbi to discourage Hanny. Set research to 0%.

Turn 241 - 1106 AD
London forge -> sword, York cat -> axe, Notts sword -> cat, Kumbi spear -> axe. Promote Iron city spear to combat 2. Hanny seems to have decided to ignore the hill with the cat. Capture Pharsalos for no loss.

Capture Athens, with academy, for the loss of a few cats.

IBT: Alex lands a C3 mace and a C3 phalanx by York. :rolleyes:

Turn 242 - 1112 AD
London sword -> elephant, Kumbi axe -> spear. Attack greek forces with York axe which retreats. Move forces towards York. Leave rice needing one turn so Hanny doesn't pillage it and move worker towards Kumbi. Pause to post save and consult with team. Promote York archer CG2, whip York axe and upgrade the warrior to axe. Promote Kumbi spears to C1 and the archer to CG2. Realise I forgot to pillage Athens copper. :blush. Dispatch cat from Athens to do this.

IBT: Greek phalanx moves towards gold hill whilst the mace pillages the rice.

Turn 243 - 1118 AD
Kill phalanx with axe. Reinforce the axe with another from York. York axe -> axe. Axe & cat by London go to York. Hanny seems to be trying a flanking movement to the north. His forces are now in 4 groups. In total his forces are comprised of 4 numidians, 5 cats,an axe, a sword, a chariot and a crossbow. The Kumbi worker is sent SW. The spear rejoins Kumbi. Pillage SAthens copper. Oops, I forgot to change Kumbi build to WE so I do this now. I also work the horses whilst moving further units towards Kumbui.

IBT: Greek mace attacks the axes by York and perishes.

Turn 244 - 1124 AD
Hanny is now advancing on a broad front towards Kumbi. I see Hanny's first mace. I move further units towards Kumbi. The WE in Kumbi is :whipped:

.

Spoiler :

IBT: One of Hanny's groups attacks Kumbi and loses a cat and a numidian.

Turn 245 - 1130 AD
Hanny has a couple of chariots in the vicinity of Pharsalos. Hanny now has 11 units next to Kumbi (3 numidians, 4 cats, a sword, an axe, a crossbow and a chariot). Kumbi has 10 units defending. Guess where the second front is....

IBT: Hanny attacks with all his force and loses 3 cats, one numidian and the crossbow. Kumbi loses two axes and two spears.

Turn 246 - 1136 AD
Pharsalos sword kills Hanny chariot that ventured too near. Kumbi defence looks a somewhat battered but Hanny's attack force looks in a worse state.

IBT: Angkor Wat is built somewhere. Kumbi defence kills a numidian, a chariot and a sword for no loss.

Turn 247 - 1142 AD
Hanny's attack force has shrunk to a mace, an axe, a cat and an undamaged numidian. Seems like Hanny has a slacker in his military. The Athens force has healed and moved to the eastern most hill ready to head for the greek lands to the east. Research is down to 30%.

IBT: Hanny mace kills defending WE. :mad:

Turn 248 - 1148 AD
Kumbi sword makes a sortie and kills the impudent mace. Our funds are so low I reduce research to 0%. From somewhere Alex has conjured two attack groups (1 mace, 1 WE, 2 HA and a cat with one HA and a cat in the other group) to the east of Iron city. Decide to pause for the night and post the save for the team.

Spoiler :

IBT: Hanny chariot moves to wood by Pharsalos. Hanny xroosbow kills archer in Pharsalos.

Turn 249 - 1154 AD
Greek forces have merged into one group. Unclear whethere they are heading for Iron city or the pass to the north. Kill chariot by Pharsalos with cat. Southern force moves into greek territory and ends next to greek WE.

IBT: Hanny's wretched ~~chariot~~ cat attacks Kumbi and manages to withdraw yet again. :sigh: Hanny crossbow kills cat by Pharsalos. Greek WE in south kills a spear.

Turn 250 - 1160 AD
Notts cat -> cat, Kumbi spear -> cat. I decide I've had enough of Hanny's force by Kumbi. Kill axe with WE. Cat dies against numidian. Sword kills numidian. Sword kills cat and Hanny's forces in the north are no more. It definitely looks like Alex is heading for Iron city. Move forces towards Iron city. Southern forces kill greek WE.

Spoiler :

In retrospect I wonder if I should have handed over last night. I'm not sure that I made the right decisions for the last couple of turns.

Spoiler Turn log :

Game log is too big to post. Just about all of it is in the turnset log anyway.

Harbourboy · Feb 13, 2008

Hmm, looks like action packed stuff. How do you think we are placed now?

Sam_Yeager · Feb 14, 2008

Harbourboy said:
Hmm, looks like action packed stuff. How do you think we are placed now?

I think we need to make swift progress against Alex so that we can concentrate on Hanny & Mansa. Hanny is already a nuisance and Mansa's power is starting to accelerate.

We can expect to see rather more maces soon whilst our own research is stymied until we start taking more cities.

I'm worried about the other two civs that we haven't met yet as well.

markh · Feb 14, 2008

Alex should have just 2 cities left. The one East of Athens and Cherokee in our North, so once we take out his stack he should not be able to give us much more trouble.

For Hanni and Mansa we have to make sure that we have enough cats to weaken their stacks.

BTW I think the victory screen says 6 rivals IIRC, so there should be 3 more AIs out there.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 14, 2008

markh said:
Alex should have just 2 cities left. The one East of Athens and Cherokee in our North, so once we take out his stack he should not be able to give us much more trouble.

That's why I was so surprised to see his forces coming from the east to the north of Hippo. I would have thought Alex would have come from the south.

markh said:
BTW I think the victory screen says 6 rivals IIRC, so there should be 3 more AIs out there.

My mistake, I think I deducted the three AI we know and ourselves when I wrote that.

markh · Feb 14, 2008

Somewhere his units must have been.

Sometimes it is very surprising from where they show up, but where would be the fun if you could predict everything ?

I am not that worried about the other 3 AIs. We have not seen any caravels, so there is still some time until they get to know astronomy and could get to us. If there would have been a passage reachable by galleys we would have known by now.

However we have to get our continent clean soon. Hanni has horses and iron, so knights are just around the corner.

markh · Feb 15, 2008

Roster:

Mark
Harbourboy
Sam - just played
The-Hawk - UP !
AgedOne - on deck
Erik

The-Hawk · Feb 15, 2008

Good timing, I needed to make it to the weekend to find time. I'll post a plan tonight, then play either Sat night or Sun morning (depending on how much discussion we need).

The-Hawk · Feb 15, 2008

OK, took a look, I like what I see. Things are progressing nicely. I think my turnset is pretty straightforward.

Defend iron city versus Alex. I will probably whip a couple of units, partly to be safe, partly so we can go right back on the attack after we deal with Alex's stack.
The stack heading for Alex's southern city will break the FOW. If I can take the city with that stack, I will do so. If not, I'll wait for units from iron city. (I will leave a strong force garrisoned in Pharsalos in case Hanny tries there next.)
If Alex's southern city seems mediocre or lame, I will raze it. If it looks good, I will pause and get input from the team about whether to keep or raze.
If I am able to clear Alex's southern city, then that stack and units from Pharsalos will go after the Hanny city east of Pharsalos. Same thought process on razing... I'll raze unless it looks like a good city, in which case I'll pause for input.
For the moment, I think we should leave Cherokee alone. I would like to raze it to put Alex out completely and stop invasions of York. However, at the moment, I think Mansa's been quiet too long. He may have units heading for Kumbi, we need to keep it well defended. Once we get a couple of more units, I might wander a small stack up to Cherokee to see how strongly it is defended.
Research stays at 0% for a while. Once Athens comes out of anarchy, we might have an income problem until we get the CH whipped. Somewhere along the way, we need to get some more CH's in other cities, but for now... units, units, units.

I will play in tomorrow night, unless more discussion is needed.

erikthecelt · Feb 15, 2008

Defend iron city versus Alex. I will probably whip a couple of units, partly to be safe, partly so we can go right back on the attack after we deal with Alex's stack.

That stack is one square from Pharsalos - it could go either way. You can hit it from both sides. There are enough other units close to Iron City to replace any loses. Iron city will be better if it grows, whipping sets us back 40 or more turns, we need the banana's and the gold mines to be brought online sooner, not later.

The stack heading for Alex's southern city will break the FOW. If I can take the city with that stack, I will do so. If not, I'll wait for units from iron city. (I will leave a strong force garrisoned in Pharsalos in case Hanny tries there next.) If Alex's southern city seems mediocre or lame, I will raze it. If it looks good, I will pause and get input from the team about whether to keep or raze.If I am able to clear Alex's southern city, then that stack and units from Pharsalos will go after the Hanny city east of Pharsalos.

Waiting for reinforcements from Iron City is too slow. If you need more troops (which I doubt - I think no more than 3 defenders) move the stack to link with troops from Pharsalos after dealing with Alex. Hannibal is now more dangerous than Alex or Mansa. Raze the city period, I don't care how good it is, we can't afford it.

Same thought process on razing... I'll raze unless it looks like a good city, in which case I'll pause for input.

No need, we can not afford to keep another city.

For the moment, I think we should leave Cherokee alone. I would like to raze it to put Alex out completely and stop invasions of York. However, at the moment, I think Mansa's been quiet too long. He may have units heading for Kumbi, we need to keep it well defended. Once we get a couple of more units, I might wander a small stack up to Cherokee to see how strongly it is defended.

It's more important to start building an army of the north to take care of Mansa. Take the small stack and recon Timbuktu in force. Might be good to build another sentry chariot to see farther than he can.

Research stays at 0% for a while. Once Athens comes out of anarchy, we might have an income problem until we get the CH whipped. Somewhere along the way, we need to get some more CH's in other cities, but for now... units, units, units.

We have to bring in Machinery, we can MM to 20% research and up it after razing a city. Whip a couple of archers in Athens with the courthouse(the same turn, have them in the queue let the courthouse complete and then start a library or something - have them available but don't pay taxes for them) and try to get our warlord into action so he can get some more xp. I think we have lots of units and lots of hammers coming in, more than the AI so we can let our cities grow back and up our income. The whipping of our cities hurts us more than helps right now. We need more cats and phants now.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 16, 2008

I fully agree with erik that keeping any further cities is out of the question at present.

I can understand erik's concerns about reducing pop in Iron city. He may well turn out to be right that the forces arriving will be enough. OTOH losing Iron city will be a significant setback. As such the use of more forceful methods to produce military , :whipped:

, is something I will leave to your judgement.

I believe I mentioned that Mansa's power rating was accelerating somewhere in my report so I agree that we should keep a decent force up north. Hanny is perfectly capable of sending another force up there. :rolleyes:

Erik's views on building up an attack force to send against Mansa have a lot of merit although it would be nice to see the demise of Alex's city up there.

The-Hawk · Feb 16, 2008

Sam_Yeager said:
I fully agree with erik that keeping any further cities is out of the question at present.

Wow... OK. If there is consensus, I'll raze everything. Not the way I'd go though... in a SP game I would keep good cities without question. Even if the city is slightly net-negative commerce (which may not be the case since we have CoL), I'd trade commerce for extra hammers to build more units. The more units I can build per turn, the faster I finish. I guess it is a play-style difference.

BTW, has anyone been watching the results page to see if all the other teams' lines are still moving? I wonder if several teams are done by now. If this is true, then it means there are enough tiles on our continent to win dom. If that is true, then we may not need to put another beaker into research...

erikthecelt · Feb 16, 2008

I didn't realize that consensus was me agreeing with Sam ... I'll have to think about that concept.

We have 9% of the land required (94/1220). Mansa has 8 %, assume Hanni is close to 8, that's 25% of the required 64. Do really think there is that much open space on our continent to make up the almost 40% still required?

The-Hawk · Feb 16, 2008

erikthecelt said:
I didn't realize that consensus was me agreeing with Sam ... I'll have to think about that concept.

I didn't mean to infer that. Probably would have been more clear if I said "Once the others pipe in, if there is consensus...".

Maybe once I've cleared some fog, we can try to estimate tiles. Also, it would be worthwhile to watch the scores of other teams... if they are not moving forward, they are done.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 16, 2008

The-Hawk said:
Probably would have been more clear if I said "Once the others pipe in, if there is consensus...".

I suspect there's only HB to pipe up. AgedOne is already tied up and mark is often otherwise engaged at weekends.

The-Hawk said:
Also, it would be worthwhile to watch the scores of other teams... if they are not moving forward, they are done.

CRC's score hasn't moved for ages. However whether that means they've finished or that RL has prevented them from moving forward is another matter.

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