SGOTM 06 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Please find a test game attached.

A funny thing happened right at the end of the build in that when I came out of World Builder, all the Civs declared war and you can see who they are and their score, much as happened in SGOTM05.

The save is a 4000 BC save as I am having trouble setting the details in the city screens. I need to do a bit more research on this, but I figured it might be better to have an imperfect product now rather then more detail later in the week, as Fred had suggested.

If you run into problems, please post as I have all the various saves still on my system in case I need to gin something up quick to fix a problem.

Have fun!!

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I'm also inclined to save the axe for a later attack. More so because I think we need the warrior outside Carthage to do some scouting. I suggest we send him along the south and west coast and let our work boat travel north and down along the east coast.

And while the woodsman warrior is scouting along the southern coast, I think he needs to check that SW peninsula to make sure there aren't any strategic resources down there that Alex could hook up (probably not copper or iron, but maybe horses).

Workboat north sounds good.

I have a different proposal for our woodsman warrior. We should keep him on the forest hill as the lock down unit for Carthage and send our cr2 axe along the south coast and then to meet up with our axe outside Athens. Athens already has 4 archers and two fishing grounds so will be much earlier sending out a settler than Carthage. With both axes on the tile that the current axe is on, any units moving from Athens have to expose themselves on open ground to our two axes. Very good chances of success. We don't lose out on anything at Carthage, since one axe wouldn't be able to deal to a settler escort anyway, and a fortified woodsman warrior on a forest hill is still a handful for an attacking archer. The only issue would be if Alex sent his settler to the tundra.

Please find a test game attached

Thanks leif!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Professor
A great Christmas to all. I'll be back in a few days.

Have a great Christmas everyone.

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks leif!

You're welcome.

I thought about trying to change it so that you don't see the AI scores and then decided as a test game, this might actually be better as we can keep a loose track on them...

Please let me know if it plays OK. And if not, what problems you encounter. Thanks.

 

[ShannonCT]

I have a different proposal for our woodsman warrior. We should keep him on the forest hill as the lock down unit for Carthage and send our cr2 axe along the south coast and then to meet up with our axe outside Athens. Athens already has 4 archers and two fishing grounds so will be much earlier sending out a settler than Carthage. With both axes on the tile that the current axe is on, any units moving from Athens have to expose themselves on open ground to our two axes. Very good chances of success. We don't lose out on anything at Carthage, since one axe wouldn't be able to deal to a settler escort anyway, and a fortified woodsman warrior on a forest hill is still a handful for an attacking archer. The only issue would be if Alex sent his settler to the tundra.

Have a great Christmas everyone.

This should probably work. It would probably also work for our CR2 axe to stay near Carthage, and kill one archer of a settler party when it's in the open, heal if needed, and then kill the other one in the city. CR2 axeman vs. archer in the open is 95% (according to the odds calculator you posted). CR2 axeman vs. unfortified archer in city is 93%. CR2 axeman vs. fortified archer in city is 71%. If axeman gets promotion after first battle, CR3 axeman vs. fortified archer in city is 95%.

If axeman near Athens fights alone: unpromoted axe vs. unpromoted archer is 95%. If axeman wins and promotes to CR1, CR1 axeman vs. unfortified archer in city is 71%.

Grouping the two axemen together gives a good chance of capturing a settler. Keeping them apart gives a good chance of preventing either AI from developing a second city and forcing them to build more settlers.

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Here's a test game based on replay of leif's game. It doesn't match exactly in Timbuktu but it might do. Be careful not to confuse it with the real save!!

Test 1810 BC

 

[leif erikson]

Here's a test game based on replay of leif's game. It doesn't match exactly in Timbuktu but it might do. Be careful not to confuse it with the real save!!

Nice work Fred!!

It sure is pretty darn close. Very nice work!!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Appreciate the test set up.

I played my scenario (Settler in London, whip monument in Tim, etc.) until Math researched in 910 BC. Really liked the results:

Have 4 workers, 4 axes, and 4 swords, 4 warriors , and 1 wk boat
Whipped first sword in Tim in 1150, and it has achieved two CR promotions
3 other swords with one CR
Have built road all the way to Carthage and gotten gold mine operating in Iron City
No problem connecting iron to Tim via road to river
No problems with barbs threatening cities; no barb archers seen; but did get careless and allow a barb to use the road to Carthage to sneak attack and kill both my road-construction workers as they were returning to Tim to pre-chop. (Still have one chopping in Tim that I got from converted settler.)
Oracle built by AI in 1060
Accumulated 14 of 30 Great General points, from a combination of barbs and Carthaginian units -- Carthage first sent out two warriors and a settler, later three archers towards Tim, while Athens never moved a unit out of the city. (It would be helpful to know why this difference in AI tactics -- quessing it has to do with a warrior, rather than an axe, within city limits.)
May not be very predictive, but Carthage is down to just three unpromoted defending archers and would probably fall fairly soon
Athens has apparently built barracks and has 7 archers, several promoted, along with both settler and worker (both have remained in city for many turns)

If I were to continue play from here, I'd withdraw units from Athens and hope that would lure units out of city, now that I have swords arriving.

Found that supply costs delayed research more than I anticipated, which convinces me that I was correct to work gold in York immediately -- most of the time with the rice, allowing London to use the cows, which speeds settler several turns.

Christmas is coming -- happy holidays to all -- and it will be a few days before I will have any time to get a screen shot up.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Leaving for home now...

Hope someone will try alternative approaches as well for comparison.

What about turn set length? I was thinking it might be better to go back to the normal 20 turn sets now that all ancient resources are discovered. That would also be right after settling iron city.

 

[leif erikson]

Merry Christmas !

 

[rrau]

Hm......Lots to read.......

 

[Mad Professor]

Merry Christmas to you too, Professor and to the rest of the XTeam crew .

I guess you must be busy stuffing the kangaroo for the Christmas dinner. You do need quite a lot of apples for that...

I will also be away between the 24th and 28th.

I've eaten Kangaroo a few times. I quite like it. Not for Christmas though! Our Christmas traditions I think come from England - probably very similar to the ones practiced in North America. Turkey, ham and lamb are the meats eaten usually...

 

[Mad Professor]

This is proving very entertaining guys, even without taking part or being able to contribute much

 

[leif erikson]

I've eaten Kangaroo a few times. I quite like it. Not for Christmas though!

Thankfully, you didn't say it tasted like Chicken...
That's what many here says about whatever they eat, that most people wouldn't consider eating?

Our Christmas traditions I think come from England - probably very similar to the ones practiced in North America. Turkey, ham and lamb are the meats eaten usually...

I think it is interesting all the different traditions that are observed. Our family tries to live up to our Swedish heritage with Swedish sausage, meatballs, ham and special breads, mostly on Christmas Eve. A lot of work, but more fun to eat...

 

[rrau]

Hope everyone had nice holidays.



OK, I've read and I like getting the settler earlier out of London.

Tentative plan:

RESEARCH: Myst -> writing -> Math

York Workers: Move immediately to mine gold hill, then road towards iron city site. After that, go road to the river to connect Timbuktu.

Timbuktu workers: Road towards Hannibal until border expansion, then improve tiles in fat cross.

London: Finish Axe -> settler -> rax

York: finish WB -> warrior -> ? 2nd wb or rax?

Timbuktu: finish worker -> monument -> rax

In my test games, axes near AIs capitals caused them to go on archer building sprees. Do we want to pull the axe from Athens now (hoping they'll make a settler and send some archer escorts) or wait until closer to attacking?

 

[ShannonCT]

Timbuktu workers: Road towards Hannibal until border expansion, then improve tiles in fat cross.

Using Pete's test game as a model, the Timbuktu workers should start prechopping forests after building the road so the sword army can come as quickly as possible after Math is done. Improvements in Tim wont be too useful as long as Tim is being whipped for units.

In my test games, axes near AIs capitals caused them to go on archer building sprees. Do we want to pull the axe from Athens now (hoping they'll make a settler and send some archer escorts) or wait until closer to attacking?

Pete's test seemed to confirm this. It might be best to leave the axemen outside of enemy borders and in position to prevent the AI from settling on top of the irons. Axemen can attack settler parties if out in the open. The CR2 axeman near Carthage can even attack an archer in a settled second city.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I'll try to post a screen shot soon, including my road network (the layout can make a turn or two difference in travel time). I went SW from Tim first to make access to an ivory city easier in the future by a settler, which I think we should soon build in Tim.

Suggest wkbt, warrior, and then a worker in York, as continue to just use gold and rice there.

Important to move sentry axe to Tim and replace with warrior from London, keeping new axe in neighborhood.

Need to work on road to Iron City and to river concurrently.

Most of the barb warriors appeared the southwest of Tim, but that could have been entirely random. Must protect roading workers from them, so when possible try to find them before they find you.

Would urge rrau to play the 1810 test posted above.

Well, I think I've re-learned how to post a screen shot. Now how do I do the 'show' and 'hide' bit?

 

[rrau]

OK. Playing test.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Well I played the 1810BC save through to Maths following the same details as CP and I think it is the way to go. Got maths at 940BC. This might be one turn too slow cos I didn't micromanage the research slider?

Once I got to maths I continued playing (very sloppily) just to get a feel for when the AI capitals would fall...

Took Carthage with 6 swords from timbuktu around turn 115 (lost one sword). Took Athens with 7 swords and 2 axes on turn 134 (lost 3 swords, 1 axe).

With chops around London and Timbuktu and whipping in Timbuktu we get our army together very quickly. I was slowed down by a lack of roads as I traversed the eastern army from the capture of Carthage over to Athens.

Barbs archers started coming with warriors to enter our territory around turn 90-100.

CP, to use the show/hide you use the "

Spoiler :

" code or click the SPOIL icon at the top of the menu as you type your post.

Spoiler :

What is the road layout we are going for?

What do we build in York after wkbt -> warrior?

 

[rrau]

CP, I have a question: How did you road towards Timbuktu? I didn't get as far with the 2 workers and warrior escort (as your pic - stopped one tile earlier) before I had to send the workers back. They arrived at the turn of border expansion and I whipped the rax same turn, so there wasn't time to do the prechopping. Did you separate the workers and let each one work a tile and leapfrog down, with the warrior sticking with just one of them rather than keeping them stacked? It only takes 3 turns to road, so I was wasting one worker turn by keeping them stacked and with the warrior escort.

In my test I built rax in York after warrior then swords.

I kept playing Leif's game, too and had eliminated both AI by turn 134 also, but in the opposite order - Athens then Timbuktu. I tried pulling out the sentry axes and that let them settle other towns I had to take, too and I lost both sentry axes to counter attacks by archers trying to capture those towns. I have a feeling that by waiting until we're ready to attack with the swords then pulling out it would be better. That way there'd be a stack of units to get the settler and escort and could protect wounded units.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Spoiler :

CP, I have a question: How did you road towards Timbuktu? Not sure exactly what you are asking. Since I captured a settler coming out of Carthage (protected by only two warriors -- interested if you and/or JT had similar experience), I was able to road a bit farther than would have without this fortuitous extra worker.