Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
I think the 4 turn rush works just fine for me. I don't think we get beaten in 3 turns. I wish we could see into his research to know how fast he's going, but it seems pretty fast.
SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
It seems incredibly fast to me. He is moving at a pace like nothing I saw in my test games -- even the one with all his tiles the same as on the real map. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if he got Physics next turn -- a little surprised, maybe, but not shocked. 
The last sentence can't happen. The free GS isn't that valuable for one. More importantly, we want them to tech faster. Regular Deity games finish around 1400 AD. And even with that screaming tech pace, we can be first to electricity, radio, computers, etc. Once Physics is done win or lose, I've never seen the AI go for Electricity. And the AI doesn't pass around Physics that fast, they hang on to tech monopolies somewhat. Who would have something to trade him anyway?
Let me make this point again: The tech that we get from winning the Physics race is LESS than the tech we lose from lightbulbing Physics. So either:
a) 1400 beakers (LB and lose the race -- very unlikely)
b) 3000 beakers (settle and lose the race: estimate 10% chance)
c) 4400 beakers (LB and win the race: 99% chance)
d) 6000 beakers (settle and win the race: estimate 90% chance)
With only 2 cities, I don't think Asoka is teching faster than us. We have Oxford. We started Physics before him. He'll probably at least finish what he was researching when we gave him Astron. I'd be very surprised if this is even the close race we think it is.
One more thing, we can build Research after the Globe and get Physics in 7 easily. Which reminds me, don't finish that cottage! A) the hammers are lost if we're on research, B) we lose another health, it's our sixth forest.
Our newly settled scientists won't give us the birth rate the others did though.
Just checked the log. Asoka had a golden age from 375 AD - 540 AD. All BEFORE we gave him Astronomy, so none of that extra science went into Physics. That was his Great Person. He can't get another one to lightbulb Physics. We won't lose the race. I'm upping my estimate to 95% chance.
Plus he's at war now, so that should distract him from Physics.
Do I need to do more convincing? I'm out of town...no internet for the next 2 days.
Plus he's at war now, so that should distract him from Physics.
Do I need to do more convincing? I'm out of town...no internet for the next 2 days.
Ugh, I have to leave soon so I'm going to 
3 turn GS -- physics in 5 turns: I think we all agree the starvation and chance of getting a GE makes this a bad choice. That reminds me..someone mentioned settling a GA if we get one. I think we're better off lightbulbing Radio with that. We should discuss that.
4 turn GS -- physics in 5: I think this might produce a little waste. The LB might overflow and that overflow is lost.
Physics in 7 -- by working the best tiles and building research after Globe we are only gambling for 2 turns. Easily worth the risk in my book for the extra 1500+ beakers.
And finally, if we go with Physics in 7, it will be a learning experience. With a LB we won't ever know what he was up to. (Except the unlikely event that someone goes back and replays after this whole thing is over.)
3 turn GS -- physics in 5 turns: I think we all agree the starvation and chance of getting a GE makes this a bad choice. That reminds me..someone mentioned settling a GA if we get one. I think we're better off lightbulbing Radio with that. We should discuss that.
4 turn GS -- physics in 5: I think this might produce a little waste. The LB might overflow and that overflow is lost.
Physics in 7 -- by working the best tiles and building research after Globe we are only gambling for 2 turns. Easily worth the risk in my book for the extra 1500+ beakers.
And finally, if we go with Physics in 7, it will be a learning experience. With a LB we won't ever know what he was up to. (Except the unlikely event that someone goes back and replays after this whole thing is over.)
Ah, here's the final nail in the coffin for lightbulbing.A shot of 1500 beakers now doesn't help the AI get apollo built any sooner. The important thing in a space race is that we don't drag down our PA partner once we join them. So we need to get our city to the highest beaker/turn possible when we join them. If we lightbulb physics there is a 0% chance that we get those 2 settled scientists. By holding our breath for 2 extra turns (physics in 7) we can get those 2. Worst case we end up with exactly the same future research rate.
Good Luck!
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Ha! Where were you all day today??? 
The post about Asoka's Golden Age is pretty convincing. We should go for the four-turn rush and settle the GS or hold the Great Artist for Radio. (I'm still afraid the blanking RNG may be reading our posts and laughing its arse off tho. We'll probably pop some sort of mutant Great Slob or something.)
Anyway, have a great trip. Check in on the fun if you can.
The post about Asoka's Golden Age is pretty convincing. We should go for the four-turn rush and settle the GS or hold the Great Artist for Radio. (I'm still afraid the blanking RNG may be reading our posts and laughing its arse off tho. We'll probably pop some sort of mutant Great Slob or something.
)Anyway, have a great trip. Check in on the fun if you can.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Whoa... so much action!
I think the long term plan is looking good, and Asoka is firming as the PA partner, which is good because we can get him to annex Japan to help out
I'm all for settling the GS if we get him, and would have to look closer at the GA options (although I did bulb in my games). If Asoka is the one who wins the GS - do we care that much?
Take care of those trees.
I think the long term plan is looking good, and Asoka is firming as the PA partner, which is good because we can get him to annex Japan to help out
I'm all for settling the GS if we get him, and would have to look closer at the GA options (although I did bulb in my games). If Asoka is the one who wins the GS - do we care that much?
Take care of those trees.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
All this discussion on the GS, i suspect you didn't noticed this.
Please take a look, i don't like to repeat.
Here i just point out what also WT says: probably Asoka was researchin' else, so, if the "else" was Astro we risk to loose the race for 1 turn, or win it for 1 turn. In any other case he must complete the current, then start physics, so we can win.
Remember that settled GPs do NOT give GP points.
If we pop:
1) a GE we can discuss how to use it (settle or wait for the 3GD or for some wonder).
2) a GS, no discussion, settle
3) a GA, settle. Why not radio? if i'm not wrong he can shave 1-2 turns.
if settled we can have 3gpt (we can build a grocer to have some more), culture to press our neighbours, and science, after representation.
Roster
greatbeyond - UP
Merum - on deck
WastinTime
Blubmuz
Sabre
dutchfire
culdeus
Sweetacshon
Balthalion - resting
Please take a look, i don't like to repeat.
Here i just point out what also WT says: probably Asoka was researchin' else, so, if the "else" was Astro we risk to loose the race for 1 turn, or win it for 1 turn. In any other case he must complete the current, then start physics, so we can win.
Remember that settled GPs do NOT give GP points.
If we pop:
1) a GE we can discuss how to use it (settle or wait for the 3GD or for some wonder).
2) a GS, no discussion, settle
3) a GA, settle. Why not radio? if i'm not wrong he can shave 1-2 turns.
if settled we can have 3gpt (we can build a grocer to have some more), culture to press our neighbours, and science, after representation.
Roster
greatbeyond - UP
Merum - on deck
WastinTime
Blubmuz
Sabre
dutchfire
culdeus
Sweetacshon
Balthalion - resting
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
We read it BLub, but there was some discussion about how best to use the great scientist.
Here, you noticed it too:vs.
Your point about settling rather than bulbing a Great Artist makes sense too -- except if we take the four-turn plan to GP, then we should be able to avoid any chance of an Engineer popping up, so no need to worry about #1:
Great argument for settling a GA. (You sound like WT.
)
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Dutch, we gave him Astro, use that time to change your sig 
! and concentrate to beat Romania, we'll do our best with France
Balth, i agree my to posts are "a bit" in contrast.
But following WT arguments, i wrote the second: if Asoka started physics in our same turn he'll win, LB or not. and if we use our GS (if a GS will be) and we lost the race we loose a settled GS. If we win, we'll have 3 GSs settled.
The link on my previous post was for the rest.
No doubt for a GA, settle immediately!
! and concentrate to beat Romania, we'll do our best with FranceBalth, i agree my to posts are "a bit" in contrast.
But following WT arguments, i wrote the second: if Asoka started physics in our same turn he'll win, LB or not. and if we use our GS (if a GS will be) and we lost the race we loose a settled GS. If we win, we'll have 3 GSs settled.
The link on my previous post was for the rest.
No doubt for a GA, settle immediately!
greatbeyond
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 989
I spent the last several minutes reading the last three pages and now my head is spinning. I will grab the save, hopefully tonight, look at it and create a general outline for my TS (I probably won't match Balthalion's organizational expertise)
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
You are very kind. My "organizational expertise" usually gets a far more colorful label...
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
heheh... smells like english teacher to me.
Tech writing, or somebody who writes a lot of requirements docs.
Tech writing, or somebody who writes a lot of requirements docs.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
You are very kind. My "organizational expertise" usually gets a far more colorful label...
Yeah, I haven't seen something that anal since... oops... you're still schoolage, aren't you, dutch? I don't recall how much he bulbs, but you're probably right (and frankly if I want to settle a GS, you think I'd want to settle a GA as well). I suppose we can just see how much he'll bulb in the unlikely
event that we get him.
I found some lame internet access out in the boonies. I think I have one hour free trial. I agree with your argument that settling the GA is better than lightbulbing. (Again LB for sure if we were going Diplo victory). The other use for it is culture bomb. We aren't getting much pressure from Wash, but we could probably steal the cows back. In many of my space games I get a tremendous amount of culture pressure from other AI. I use the bomb all the time. Sometimes I even pray for an Artist. Just 1 will put you over the last border expansion (before legendary). I even build Hermitage to try to hang on to my fat cross. I've had Mansa, with a city 5 tiles away from my capitol consume the tiles directly next to my capitol.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Ehhh... Part right, but WastinTime has been better at correcting BLub's English.heheh... smells like english teacher to me.
Tech writing, or somebody who writes a lot of requirements docs.
D) Mostly it just comes naturally (sorta like Sweetaschon said ). I do generally give more exams than I take, tho... 
(@ dutch: I know... 
...apologies. ) Now, that's about enough on this boring subject. 
culdeus
Emperor
came in to take a break from the sun and watch fra-ita. will comment in a bit, but most looks good so far.
Looks like the math isn't with the physics run. The question to me is whether physics is all that useful to get if we fail in this way. I'll digest it.
All is well here. The beach is fantastic.
Looks like the math isn't with the physics run. The question to me is whether physics is all that useful to get if we fail in this way. I'll digest it.
All is well here. The beach is fantastic.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
totally out of topic
All right, well done Netherlands!
i was sure Van Basten did his best for his former teammate Donadoni
I can bet we'll meet again
All right, well done Netherlands!
i was sure Van Basten did his best for his former teammate Donadoni
I can bet we'll meet again
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