Wow that is a plains/hill. It looked like grass.
@dutchfire: Diplo will not need (or want) a PA.
@dutchfire: Diplo will not need (or want) a PA.
SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
AlanH uses the BlueMarble graphics mod.
Victory conditions
Domination: PA needed, probably terribly hard
Space: PA needed, quite possible, but late
Culture: PA needed, terribly hard
Conquest: PA optional (we'll want to win before Communism/Fascism though), might be the fastest way to win
Diplo: No PA
Time:
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What carrying capacity? Anyway, a PA is also good for dom victory, although it relies on the AI - and we all remember trying to send Gandhi to space, right?
Definitely settle in place. Before we find out what resources we have, it might be hard to settle on a complete game plan. So firstly, do we go for an early wonder, and if so, which? Stone, indust. begs for the mids, imo. So we'll need masonary, but also fishing for the food, and BW for defence/whips/chops. Any other techs need prioritising? Hunting for the fur probably unnecessary early, although happiness is an issue. So ifr we decide to go this way, what's the most efficient path?
Also, another question is about founding a religion. Personally, I think we'll be better off if we just adopt the religion of those nearby, to keep us safe.
So we'll need masonary, but also fishing for the food, and BW for defence/whips/chops. Any other techs need prioritising? Hunting for the fur probably unnecessary early, although happiness is an issue. So ifr we decide to go this way, what's the most efficient path?
Also, another question is about founding a religion. Personally, I think we'll be better off if we just adopt the religion of those nearby, to keep us safe.
I find that on Diety, it's almost always best to go straight to Alphabet and then trade, but that's with gold/gems handy. Naturally, we'll need a side trip to Fishing. Probably have to get masonry too so we can start the pyramids. Hunting/BW may have to wait. Not sure we're gonna want to clear our forests, especially before math. We may need the health they provide. Health is a much bigger problem than happiness in OCC.
I'm not used to having no gold/gems, so we may need that fur(hunting) for the commerce. Otherwise alphabet might come too late.
I think religion is a bad thing. Not just in RL, but this game too
.Even if you get a few neighbors to share it, you're angering everyone else. When it comes time for them to pick someone to attack, you're top on this list. I've been able to get Diety OCC Diplo wins with just 1 warrior all game against Toku/monty/Napolean. etc. I don't recommend we try that since we only get 1 shot, but I'm just sayin', we can prevent most unwanted wars by avoiding religion.
Early Alphabet is probably the best way to prevent wars. You can gift tech to make them Pleased and even open borders with Toku! Only when everyone in the game is Pleased with me would I ever consider a religion.
I find that on Diety, it's almost always best to go straight to Alphabet and then trade, but that's with gold/gems handy. Naturally, we'll need a side trip to Fishing. Probably have to get masonry too so we can start the pyramids. Hunting/BW may have to wait. Not sure we're gonna want to clear our forests, especially before math. We may need the health they provide. Health is a much bigger problem than happiness in OCC.
I'm not used to having no gold/gems, so we may need that fur(hunting) for the commerce. Otherwise alphabet might come too late.
I think religion is a bad thing. Not just in RL, but this game too
Even if you get a few neighbors to share it, you're angering everyone else. When it comes time for them to pick someone to attack, you're top on this list. I've been able to get Diety OCC Diplo wins with just 1 warrior all game against Toku/monty/Napolean. etc. I don't recommend we try that since we only get 1 shot, but I'm just sayin', we can prevent most unwanted wars by avoiding religion.
Early Alphabet is probably the best way to prevent wars. You can gift tech to make them Pleased and even open borders with Toku! Only when everyone in the game is Pleased with me would I ever consider a religion.
Fishing - Wheel - Pottery - Writing - Alphabet
(40) - (60) - (80) - (120) - (300)
or
(Fishing) - Hunting - Animal Husbandry - Writing - Alphabet
(40) - (40) - (100) - (120) - (300)
?
First one gets pottery (Granary means faster growth, which is huge in OCC), the other one gets hunting for the commerce. Both paths are just as expensive.
All beakers as per the techs article, without map size/difficulty level bonusses
Well, we may want Hunting, but we don't need hunting to get AH. We start with Agri.
A granary usually comes late for me. There are too many better things to build, and you'll reach your happiness limit before you have time to build one. You just need to get it built before you trade for monarchy/(heridtary rule).
A granary usually comes late for me. There are too many better things to build, and you'll reach your happiness limit before you have time to build one. You just need to get it built before you trade for monarchy/(heridtary rule).
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
We seem all here but Merum.
@Culdeus
pity you haven't signed for this game, perhaps there's still time to ask Alan to add you.
In any case your opinions are welcome, if you ca actively participate, better.
I'm a bit worried by the lack of happy resources (we can see only furs for now, and the whale with Optics will be reachable) but we need some gold or silver.
I dont' know if we can try the Oracle, perhaps for MC? we also have cheap forges... No GW here, so perhaps Oracle-forge-pyramids is doable.
Some religion will spread to us, no need to have one of our own.
Conquest is very hard, with the AIs ready to fill the space, and with the production rate of the Deity AI.
Diplo seems a good choice, if we can manage to pop 2 GSs for Edu and PP we can try Liberalism for SM or Astro if we manage the Glib.
The only thing that i suppose will be not debated is out first research: fishing.
Settle in place? no other options IMHO, we need the coast also for the benefits of the Harbour, and we need the river, too.
@Culdeus
pity you haven't signed for this game, perhaps there's still time to ask Alan to add you.
In any case your opinions are welcome, if you ca actively participate, better.
I'm a bit worried by the lack of happy resources (we can see only furs for now, and the whale with Optics will be reachable) but we need some gold or silver.
I dont' know if we can try the Oracle, perhaps for MC? we also have cheap forges... No GW here, so perhaps Oracle-forge-pyramids is doable.
Some religion will spread to us, no need to have one of our own.
Conquest is very hard, with the AIs ready to fill the space, and with the production rate of the Deity AI.
Diplo seems a good choice, if we can manage to pop 2 GSs for Edu and PP we can try Liberalism for SM or Astro if we manage the Glib.
The only thing that i suppose will be not debated is out first research: fishing.
Settle in place? no other options IMHO, we need the coast also for the benefits of the Harbour, and we need the river, too.
Building a worker? There will be 34 free workers roaming around the map
. Not usually my strategy, but we should be able to find an early AI to pick on for this game. Someone we know we're gonna have to kill eventually.First build? Warrior? Worker (with fishing first, he'll only be able to build farms)?
edit: worker stealing sounds like a good idea. I don't really have experience with it, how likely is the AI to just walk an archer to your capital and ruin your game?
edit: worker stealing sounds like a good idea. I don't really have experience with it, how likely is the AI to just walk an archer to your capital and ruin your game?
Happy not a problem after monarchy.
Oracle: may be hard to win that race. Worse we corrupt our gene pool with prophets.
First GS MUST go to Academy. Next GS maybe Edu, but bulbing GP's is not nearly as good as it is on lower difficulties. On Diety, you're almost always better settling the GP in the city unless it comes late (for electricity). Especially if we have pyramids/representation.
culdeus
Emperor
I asked. I could have sworn I put in for this already, but guess the post got lost somehow.
Anyways carrying capacity refers to just the population size possible given the resource/tile improvement
Keep in mind there are tiles we can't see that might hold more
. I wouldn't doubt it. If not right there with a couple border pops.
culdeus
Emperor
Building a worker? There will be 34 free workers roaming around the map
This is a tiny map. This could end really, really badly.
I can go either way. Whatever the team wants. But if we choose someone as far away as possible--which won't be very far, it's likely that the AI we steal from can't even reach us (no open borders). By the time they could, it will probably be 1 or 2 archers. And we'll have Alphabet by then, so we can trade for peace.
May not be worth it since we only need 1 worker for a long time. Again, whatever you all think. I usually play peaceful games.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
@culdeus
try again, if you wish
@ team
i posted the roster for the first round of TSs in post #3 (the one reserved for the TS reports links).
As usual for our team the newest player begins the game: since we have 3 new players i picked the first in alphabetical order.
I agree with the research path proposed, only some doubt on the wheel, we must verify the happy cap.
build queue:
1) warrior - WB - warrior - WB - worker
2) warrior - warrior - WB - WB - worker
am i wrong, or no doubt about settle in place?
i don't think it's worth a worker stealing, and i don't think barbs will be a problem in a so crowded map and with all the AIs starting with 2 settlers.
try again, if you wish
@ team
i posted the roster for the first round of TSs in post #3 (the one reserved for the TS reports links).
As usual for our team the newest player begins the game: since we have 3 new players i picked the first in alphabetical order.
I agree with the research path proposed, only some doubt on the wheel, we must verify the happy cap.
build queue:
1) warrior - WB - warrior - WB - worker
2) warrior - warrior - WB - WB - worker
am i wrong, or no doubt about settle in place?
i don't think it's worth a worker stealing, and i don't think barbs will be a problem in a so crowded map and with all the AIs starting with 2 settlers.
Aside: Happy is 4 (5 with fur)
Build order:
If, starting on turn 1 you work a 3 hammer tile, you get 2 warriors in 6 turns. Just in time to research Fishing. If we're not going to need these warriors right away for defense (i.e. no worker steal) then I'd say work the default tile the governer picks.
Either way, on turn 6 you get Fishing and build workboat using a 3 hammer tile so the boat is out on turn 12.
On turn 13, (remember to switch to the crab tile)
Then maybe worker first, then 2nd workboat.
Then writing/Library should be ready.
These are all just suggestions/my opinion. I hope I'm not sounding too bossy.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
WT, don't worry about your suggestions.
We're a team and anyone must give his opinion, and anyone must confute it if disagree.
Lookin' at the SS, there's nothin much we can work but a 2f 1h tile, the remainings are all forested, thus no commerce.
I think that if the 2 warriors come in time to start a fast WB one of them can scout around, while the other defends the city.
The free warrior must scout as far as possible, having care to not be closed by some border expansion or by a new city.
So i guess the goals for the first TS can be:
1) settle: in place
2) build: warrior - warrior - WB - WB - worker
3) research: fishing - hunting - the wheel, to keep the worker busy or AH? also i guess we need the furs hooked before alpha, so perhaps the wheel is better first
4) work a 3h tile 'til the first crabs are hooked, then we can start work that tile until s.2, when we'll add a 3 h tile
remember that as financial 2 food resources+1 fur are equals a riverside gold mine.
If writing will be in after the worker, a library is mandatory, and we can put some scientist at work.
We're a team and anyone must give his opinion, and anyone must confute it if disagree.
Lookin' at the SS, there's nothin much we can work but a 2f 1h tile, the remainings are all forested, thus no commerce.
I think that if the 2 warriors come in time to start a fast WB one of them can scout around, while the other defends the city.
The free warrior must scout as far as possible, having care to not be closed by some border expansion or by a new city.
So i guess the goals for the first TS can be:
1) settle: in place
2) build: warrior - warrior - WB - WB - worker
3) research: fishing - hunting - the wheel, to keep the worker busy or AH? also i guess we need the furs hooked before alpha, so perhaps the wheel is better first
4) work a 3h tile 'til the first crabs are hooked, then we can start work that tile until s.2, when we'll add a 3 h tile
remember that as financial 2 food resources+1 fur are equals a riverside gold mine.
If writing will be in after the worker, a library is mandatory, and we can put some scientist at work.
2 crab + 1 fur = 11 commerce.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Wow, I've got some catching up to do -- and I'm going to be busy tonight, so just a few comments...
(1) I agree that getting to alphabet (for trades) should be top priority.
(2) Why build two warriors before the first workboat? Was that a typo? (or are we just starting warrior #2?)
(3) Do we really need The Wheel before trading after alphabet? I'm not sure we can get a worker out fast enough to use it. On two testgames I was able to beeline Alphabet by turn 45/46, even with hunting thrown in. Then we can use writing to trade for The Wheel? (By the way, thanks for the great testgame GB. It's been very useful!)
(4) Same with pottery. Do we really need it that fast - especially if workers are scarce (or if we're working Crabs all the time), or can we just trade for it after Alphabet? Animal Husbandry would be faster - especially with economizing on beakers through hunting. I've been fairly successful trading for pottery after alphabet using the testgame.
(5) One doubt though: Pyramids usually get built by around turn 57-61. Seems like it is going to be difficult to get them under any circumstances if BW doesnt come until after alphabet.
(6) Every time I've tried a worker steal on the testgame I've gotten clobbered fast. Of course, it may be just that I'm way over my head here on Diety, but I dunno...
Sorry about the brief notes, but I gotta run. More later.
Looks like I'm first.
Should I work up a very explicit plan for us all to pull apart and reconfigure, or does the captain/team do that?Similar threads
