SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

[WastinTime]

I'll try to find time to do a quick PA and then a peaceful finish. It'd be great if someone could run a quick PA with a war. I'd like to have some evidence that we can make a war work. Sadly we can't just take cities and gift them, we have to get our PA partner to attack. Another problem is they like to pillage everything which means the new cities won't be productive soon enough to matter. We need some proof that this is a worthwhile effort before we build a bunch of military.

If we just go peacefully into space, we can focus on building research and maybe IronWorks, factory, power. (speaking of IW, we should keep our eye on steel for that.) Should come naturally after Chemistry.

These should be fun! Try not to think of it as work.

 

[WastinTime]

I started my test game. Here's a tip or two:
Before you get going, adopt free religion and gift Lib to Liz so you can force her to adopt it. Trade for music and Nationalism so you can get MilTrad immediately.

You can build the Taj if you want I was able to get it.

Try to get Constitution/Econ and switch to Rep/FreeMarket before the golden age.

 

[WastinTime]

Ok, I finished my first test. DP on t148, PA on t188. It was a disaster. We finished tech on t273, launched turn 280 (1820 AD). The only tech we traded for was combustion. The rest we had to get ourselves. It was me and Mansa. He had 2 cities.
I let him build all the parts because building is not the problem. It's tech speed. I think the best way to get all the tech we need for launch is to play tech-broker as long as possible. That means we need to watch for other DP's so no one can steal our PA partner. Probably best if we don't trade away MilTrad.

I'm thinking that all the teams that get an early PA and go for Space will be at least 1800. Remember my game was pretty ideal, no wars, and I could reload if I wanted to. The only way to get better is to use a war to make room for a larger, faster teching partner. So we need to figure out if a war is a good idea or not.

If we don't need a PA for war, then there's no hurry signing one. I we do go for a war then we need communism around t195.

 

[BLubmuz]

OK WT your last posts make your suggestions clear.
I'll pick-up the save and try to follow your suggestions and start a nice war.
Let's see how it works.

 

[dutchfire]

In other words, if we win we'll have the glory, if we lose, you'll have the insults

Sounds like what usually happens to soccer coaches

 

[dutchfire]

I vote NO to going for communism now, by the way. There's simply no point in researching it.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm looking for info on PAs now.

It seems a PA makes all techs 50% more expensive
link

So as long as your Ally produces at least 1/2 as many beakers as you do, your tech rate will increase.

Are we producing 1/2 as many beakers as the AI we'll be joining, seems to be the main question.

 

[BLubmuz]

OK, just finished the test game WT posted.
I've tried a war with Wash/Asoka and launched in 1844.
I signed a Dp with Lizzy, she was friendly, but she won't sign a PA 'cause
"we have not shared a DP or a war for enough time" or something like that.

I was researching ways faster than her, but she immediately switched to anything i asked.
She was damn fast to build SS parts, but i completed the engine myself.
Vanilla Ai is totally incompetent in war: they pillage and not much more.

Now i'll try without war.

One thing i noticed: better build a grocer and after computers take the path to refrigeration, to build a supermarket.

EDIT:
a fast try (i saved the turn before i started the war).
Launched in 1828.
In both atttempts i've built the 3GD.
She completed the engine in 7 turns.

 

[BLubmuz]

Sounds like what usually happens to soccer coaches

To all coaches, i think.
Of course i was jockin'.

Let's cry together on our tournament exclusion.

I must admit that after the test game my ideas are clearer about our strategy.

 

[culdeus]

Messed around a bit trying to clear some space and it only resulted in me getting some light pillaging in on the AI. I also have a better idea what's left to do. In fact, it looks to be fairly dull and fast to complete. I don't see a good path to take a city. A pillage fest is all that can be mustered versus Washington perhaps.

10 turns or maybe 12 per player here on out would be fine by me.

I saw the "not war with us long enough" I wonder if that accumulates I mean if we can get Liz in a war with us early does it reduce the 40 turn marker?

 

[BLubmuz]

I saw the "not war with us long enough" I wonder if that accumulates I mean if we can get Liz in a war with us early does it reduce the 40 turn marker?

No. edit: sorry, maybe, dunno.
If we fought a war together in the past it should work, but now we only loose the DP.
But no reason to hurry, don't worry.

So, WT when is better to try the PA? i guess Liz is the best candidate.

 

[WastinTime]

Obviously we need to watch that someone doesn't steal our partner, but other than that I like to wait a long time. I think the best time is before they waste beakers researching Flight, or MassMedia, medicine, etc. They all mostly seem to go for Rocketry, Industrialism and then head to Robotics....maybe pick up satellites along the way.

 

[WastinTime]

Maybe instead of 10 turns, we have each person play until they complete research? that way we can discuss any new research options between TSs. Just a thought, I haven't really thought out if I like that idea.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Checking in with 5 pages to read. Not sure if I can make any sense being so far behind. Umm... happy birthday, Merum, commiserations to soccer (football) teams - although Oz lost to China the other day, so I can't say much.

I found in my tests that I could get my PA (although I didn't try the "wait til last minute for faster research option) to take cities by gifting them the fast units to do so on the same turn I prepared the scene for them (=bomb the crap out of the target city). Otherwise they just pillaged or defended and were relatively useless. I have no idea if the extra cities helped out or not, although I suspect not, with my wins being at around 1900.

It might be nice to get Liz washington, but is it worth it?? Not sure. It would certainly make the endgame more fun, and I'd do it in SP, but for speed, I'm unsure.

10 turns is fine with me - but my computer is 200kms away, so I can't interact right now anyway.

Maybe instead of 10 turns, we have each person play until they complete research? that way we can discuss any new research options between TSs. Just a thought, I haven't really thought out if I like that idea.

Sure, and it would be easy enough to estimate research times for turn lengths, anyway.
*remember to keep an eye on AI-AI DPs every turn or so, so that we know when their 40 turns are near.*

 

[BLubmuz]

Maybe instead of 10 turns, we have each person play until they complete research? that way we can discuss any new research options between TSs. Just a thought, I haven't really thought out if I like that idea.

It's not that different, we can research almost everything in 10 turns after Radio.
We desperately need Chem, if we want to go for the refrigeration path after computers.

BTW Merum, when do you play? I hope the last posts have made the situation clear.

Roster
Merum - UP for ten turns
Sabre - on deck
dutchfire
culdeus
Sweetacshon
Balthalion
greatbeyond
WastinTime
Blubmuz - resting

20 days left.

Sabre, please give a sign you'll be ready for your TS, or to swap with Merum.

 

[culdeus]

I can't see any evidence that anyone is done yet. The Russians posted in their thread which gave me a scare as that usually means they are done but they have just passed the 1AD mark. No other team threads are rotting and most are getting multiple posts a day which to me means activity. I will start monitoring when saves are posted like last time when it became obvious that several teams were done in the early AD.

 

[BLubmuz]

I agree culdeus, nobody has finished yet.
also i don't see any possible victory but SR or the very difficult diplo.
So, if we manage a pre-1800 AD we can probably be on the "Laurels zone".

Still, the finish date is there, and unless many teams will not be asking for a delay, we risk to go out of time at this pace.

As i already said, i was with Merum before to try the test game: now WT's suggestions are clear to me, and our strategy is decided (at least i haven't seen comments on my posts).
The only thing that remains is when we'll sign the PA with Liz.
After the PA we can maybe try a war with Wash to give her a fourth city, but i don't think this will help much, so a peaceful end, probably.
A far option for the PA is Cyrus, but i doubt he will ever sign. In case, we can discuss this when the time will arrive.

 

[Merum]

I think you are all deluded if you think 1750 is good enough to win a laurel. That said, I'll play later and follow what the team wants.

 

[WastinTime]

A war will also make it harder to finish in 20 days.

 

[culdeus]

I've played thru a couple times. The last 50 turns are nothing but hitting enter for the most part. Very dull.