SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

There is no countdown, that's in BTS. We will do Robotics and launch a couple turns later. Should be 12 turns from now maybe. No future tech for us.

I think fascism is not needed, cus robotics would out-rank it once we trade for plastics.
 
12 turns? Heck, maybe you should just take the save now, WastinTime. I haven't looked at it yet, but if we are that close...

Let me know. I'll take it and play 8 if you'd rather...
 
Probaly it's correct, robotics will have precedence over fascism (never understood why a GE has to bulb fascism). Anyway, not a big problem if we can still trade for plastics.

Roster
Balthalion - UP
WastinTime - on deck for the launch
Sabre
Sweetacshon
Merum
greatbeyond
WastinTime
Blubmuz
dutchfire
culdeus - resting

WT, you'll close this game.
Hopefully it will be a win. Please remember to save the turn before the last part completes, so we can grab it and add to our personal HoF.
Balth, go ahead and warm the engines.
 
Balth, How about stopping w/ 2 turns left on Robotics. That way I should have time to make sure Liz gets the dockingbay started in her capitol.

Before you get started:
Immediately trade for plastics. (Cathy does not even have computers/genetics, etc)
use the GE on Robotics.
Put the citizen working the lumbermill into the water for more research/food. It might be a good idea to cancel the fish we're taking from Liz so she gets 2 more food (watch for her starving her cities. The AI likes to do that to rush parts...good for them.) We don't need the fish.
IMPORTANT: Put LifeSupport in our queue (after research). We need York to select Stasis chamber next...culdeus stopped at the perfect time.
While you're at it, put Scotland yard and Mt.Rush in our queue (if that trick even works for NatWonders?).
So continue building research.

Later...
Once stasis is underway, remove Life Support from our queue so when the engine is done, Liz will build it.
IMPORTANT: once Liz starts LifeSupport, give her copper.

If Liz does not select LifeSupport after Engine, we have enough time to build it.
Ideally you can get Liz to finish LifeSupport the exact same turn we get Robotics. So if you see that they are in synch, you can stop the Mine/Quarry game.

or there's Plan B: When there's 1-2 turns left on the Engine, you can check if we build LifeSupport instead of research....does that cause Robotics to be delayed 1 turn? If it does not delay robotics then we could just build Life Support(keeping copper). If you want to do that, I'd suggest finishing the windmill on our lumbermill for the chopped hammers and extra food. I think I like Plan A, let Liz do LifeSupport

Sorry if I'm micro-managing too much, but it'd be nice to have a smooth finish. Let's look professional for all the lurkers. The only really important thing I said was LifeSupport in our queue to get Liz to build stasis in York. Well, that and trading for plastics, but you knew that.
 
Oh yeah, in order to get the GE to bulb towards robotics you will have to get facism first.

Now that I think about it, this was a great idea. Getting Fascism in trade means that Liz will not waste a GE lightbulbing it. Good work! The AI tends to run a lot of engineers late game, so GE's pop up all the time.

Thanks for teaching me a new strategy detail.
 
Okay, sounds good. I've got the save. Will post a plan later tonight that incorporates the ideas from the last few posts and aims to stop two turns before Robotics.
 
Now that I think about it, this was a great idea. Getting Fascism in trade means that Liz will not waste a GE lightbulbing it. Good work! The AI tends to run a lot of engineers late game, so GE's pop up all the time.

Thanks for teaching me a new strategy detail.

Well I didn't know that robots would outrank it down the line. So it was accidental in that regards, but my gut said to go ahead and pull the trigger. :D

I too was wondering in what universe an engineer would be a bulber for facism. Very odd.
 
Well, in reviewing the save I can't see too much that hasn't already been covered. I am wondering if we should just stick out the research on Plastics. Giving Catherine Ecology lets her build another SS part. I realize that will push back our earliest launch date by 5 turns but I don't trust Catherine to let us beat her. In this same vein I was trying to figure out what our launch date would be. The way I figured it (trading for plastics now)

London York Beijing
T-0 SSE SSC Research
T-1 SSE SSL Research
T-5 SSSC SSL Research
T-10 SSSC SSL Research done start Docking Bay
T-15 SSSC Done SSDB
T-30 (1845AD) Done Done Launch

This is based on ~1,493 Research/turn (calculated from current rate, I didn't do the math to figure out what the actual rate per turn is, as there must be a small overflow. According to the city screens we are earning a combined 1,332 beakers/turn) This also presumes the same levels of research.

Production is based on current city output. It doesn't look like there will be much change unless we were to use the GE to complete IW or we allow Liz to start it and we gift the GE to her. But there aren't any guarantees what she will do with it. London will grow by 1 Pop but even assigning that Pop to a Engineer will only contribute 2H/turn and 3B. Liz will probably not get another GP before the end.

Using GE to cut research on Robotics will trim off 1 turn or less.
Using GE to rush IW will increase our Hammers by 50% which will boost research and SSDB when we get Robotics. Taking into account the health penalty, and having to work the coast instead of a PH, it should still cut 2 turns off the completion time for the SSDB.

Finish date was calculated at 5 Years/turn. When does it switch to 2yrs/turn?

Catherine has 7 cities, at least 5 of which are "good" cities. She also has DPs with Cyrus and Saladin. Does anyone remember when they signed their DPs? If Cathy signs a PA with either one, we may be left on Earth. Checking all possibilities, no one can be bribed into DOW Catherine.

I am somewhat worried that LIZ may be attacked, and as a result stop producing SS parts. HC has quite a sizeable force in Athens and is feeling lots of cultural pressure. He is annoyed with Liz and these two factors may be enough to make him DOW. We should consider upgrading our units in case they are needed, we have more than enough gold.

It seems we can still sign a DP with Cyrus. As he has a DP with Cathy, this should keep all enemies at bay. Something to think about? If Cathy has DPs with both Saladin and Cyrus, she isn't likely to attack them.

Now I know I have probably miscalculated, missed important game mechanics, and just plain botched the calculations, so please take a look and let's discuss it.
 
We need a good chunk of gold(+ecology) to get plastics. Cathy doesn't even have computers (no labs). She can't possibly threaten our launch date. Saving 5 turns this late in the game is gigantic. I'm so happy to get plastics partially free.

The plan is to chop those 4 forests into the Docking Bay in Liz's captiol. We won't need IW and won't build the DB.

It goes to 2 years/turn at 1800. We should be done before that. 1770? 1760?

If you want to stir the pot, I'm open to ideas, but I'm thinking peacefull launch right now.
 
No pot stirring just to be pot stirring!
A peaceful launch is definitely preferred. I'm only thinking defense, not offense.
I did forget about chopping the Forests.
We do not need IW, I was just looking at it to speed production of the last part if we build it.

SSDB is 2000 Hammers.

These were just ideas I looked at as things which might need to be discussed. Especially how to avert any chance of a War delaying our Launch. As for the trade for Plastics, I'm also leaning toward completing the trade, that is why I based my figures on it.

Revised Launch Date then 1814AD, I know I'm missing something, how do you plan on launching 14 turns earlier?

York is 11 more hammers/turn than London 87 vs 78 but the 4 Forest chops allow London to complete the SSDB 1 Turn sooner. What I haven't fully explored is what effect the 4 Forest chop will have on London. It will lose Health but I'm guessing it won't lose any Pop. The currently Lumbermilled tiles (3) would have Workshops(?) built for the Hammers, getting us 1 less Food/ same Hammers as there is now. The Plains Hill will probably be Mined or Windmilled for 2 less hammers than it is producing now. The net effect is that we will lose a little production, but that will be more than made up by the Forest chops.

I'm estimating the 4 forest chops will give 360 hammers to London.
London won't be able to build the SSDB until Turn 10 (from now, when Robotics is done) at the earliest, and that is if we don't build the SSSC there, it will be done on Turn 31
If London finishes the SSSC and then starts the SSDB, it will be done around Turn 39.
If Beijing was to build the SSDB we would be done around Turn 30.
 
With the GE, robotics is 9 turns out. The DB can be built in about 4 turns in London(with 4 chops...I wish we had that 5th forest). You can see now that chopping one to finish apollo 1 turn early did not help our launch date. It's all about the final part. Ideally, we'd have 8 forests+. I'd have to check the save to figure out where your math has gone wrong, but I expect to be done in 13 turns.

London does more hammers than York--York is building a casing(aluminum).
Remember the 100% for aluminum (engine doesn't get that) and remember Liz gets a 40% discount (I think) for Deity. So it's 1200 hammers, not 2000.
 
I knew I was missing something, like the Scarecrow, I wish I had a brain..:blush:
I don't have the time right now to refigure the production times, but I would guess our finish will be close to your estimate.
 
Here is a draft plan (I'm proposing to go with WastinTime's "Plan A"). I'll check for feedback and play tomorrow night unless questions surface.

Plan for the Next Turnset:
  1. Turns to Play: Finish 249, play until 2 turns to go on Robotics.
  2. Research Path: Trade immediately for Plastics, begin Robotics (& bulb the Great Engineer on Robotics).
  3. Build Order: Research all the way.
  4. City Priority = Research: Population = 18
    • Tiles to Work: All except the lumbermill 1W of Beijing (move to work coast tile). Growing at +2 food per turn; population growth in 28. ;)
  5. Inherited Turn: Immediately trade Cathy Ecology + 640 gold for her Plastics. (They look good on her, no? ;)) Put Life Support, Scotland Yard, and Mt. Rushmore in our build queue. (Remove Life Support once York is a turn into the Stasis Chamber.) Cancel the fish import from Liz -- leaving us at -3 :health: but still +1 :food: overall.
  6. QUESTION: Liz is still giving us her uranium, but it looks like she has a nuke plant in London. Can she still run it without the resource? Should we give her back her uranium now, or are we still holding on to it for some reason?
  7. Workers: Continue playing worker-tag with Liz over the mine/quarry until LifeSupport gets synced with turns to go on Robotics. No chopping yet.
  8. Military: No changes.
  9. Technology Trading: Looks like the Ecology for Plastics deal will be our last one this game.
  10. Resource Trading: Cancel fish import from Liz. Maybe cancel uranium import from Liz?
  11. Civics Changes: None this turnset.
  12. Political Demands: Screw 'em all.
  13. Final Play Notes: overkill. Charge! :devil:

EDIT: What about GB's idea about trying for an additional defense pact or two? I don't really think we'll need more DPs, but maybe it couldn't hurt... unless someone we have a DP with gets attacked? Even then we could just renounce the pact, right? Just curious about this idea, really. :confused:
 
Liz has coal plants in all cities, so uranium is not needed and she might build a battleship if we give it to her, so let's not mess with the uranium situation. This may prevent meltdown...who knows.

A DP could suck us into a war. That would be bad if Liz starts building military. In fact, maybe we should cancel any DPs we have so this doesn't happen.

Maybe you can find some fish somewhere else?
 
Thanks for the Uranium explanation. I'd forgotten about the naval ship-building and meltdown things. I don't think we have any existing DPs right now, but I won't go after any new ones either.

I'll look for more fish. I wonder if anyone will take one of our two uraniums for a fish??? THAT would be an interesting trade -- kind of like giving someone a bomber for a bake-sale. (Go peacemongers! ;))
 
The plan seems carefully drawn.
Let's launch before the week end, so we can go to see what others did.
 
Aye, lead on, McBalth.
Ha! I love it! Maybe I should change my forum name? :lol:

I'll play in about 3 or 4 hours if nothing else comes up (or gets in the way).
 
The save is posted here.

Played to the beginning of turn 256. All went as planned. Robotics is due in 2 turns. London will complete Life Support in 2 turns. York has 4 turns to go on the Stasis Chamber.

Made the plastics trade and canceled the fish import from Liz on turn 249. Got Fish + 4 gold per turn from HC in exchange for one of our two uraniums on the same turn. Gave Mansa Electricity when he asked for it. Denied Louis when he wanted me to cancel deals with somebody. Nothing else much to note.

Take it away, WastinTime! :thumbsup:

The Autolog:
Spoiler :
Beijing begins: Scotland Yard (6 turns)
Beijing begins: Mt. Rushmore (6 turns)
Tech learned: Plastics
Civics Change: Louis XIV(France) from 'Theocracy' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 250/460 (1700 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:25:13]

Turn 251/460 (1705 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:27:45]

Turn 252/460 (1710 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:29:51]

Turn 253/460 (1715 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:32:47]
User comment: Gifted Liz Copper - London will complete Life Support in 4
User comment: York will complete Stasis Chamber in 6
User comment: Forgot to mention - Got Fish + 4gpt from HC for Uranium on turn 249
User comment: Also, cancelled the Fish import from Liz on turn 249.
Attitude Change: Catherine(Russia) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Turn 254/460 (1720 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:36:46]
User comment: Robotics in 4, Life Support in 4 --> will now leave the quarry alone.

Turn 255/460 (1725 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:38:46]
Attitude Change: Louis XIV(France) towards SGOTM07(China), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Louis XIV(France) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 256/460 (1730 AD) [22-Jul-2008 15:39:31]

Session Turn Log:
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1695 AD to 1730 AD:

Turn 249, 1695 AD: You have discovered Plastics!
Turn 249, 1695 AD: SGOTM07/Elizabeth has completed SS Casing!
Turn 249, 1695 AD: Catherine's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 249, 1695 AD: Louis XIV adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 250, 1700 AD: Beijing can no longer work on SS Casing. The lost ? is converted into 144?!
Turn 250, 1700 AD: Great Artist has been born in Rome!

Turn 251, 1705 AD: Julius Caesar's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 251, 1705 AD: Norbert Rillieux has been born in Bombay!

Turn 252, 1710 AD: SGOTM07/Elizabeth has completed SS Engine!
Turn 252, 1710 AD: Catherine has completed SS Life Support!

Turn 253, 1715 AD: Gifted Liz Copper - London will complete Life Support in 4
Turn 253, 1715 AD: York will complete Stasis Chamber in 6
Turn 253, 1715 AD: Forgot to mention - Got Fish + 4gpt from HC for Uranium on turn 249
Turn 253, 1715 AD: Also, cancelled the Fish import from Liz on turn 249.

Turn 254, 1720 AD: Robotics in 4, Life Support in 4 --> will now leave the quarry alone.
Turn 254, 1720 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Thrusters!
Turn 254, 1720 AD: Great Prophet has been born in Moscow!
Turn 254, 1720 AD: Huayna Capac has completed Apollo Program!
 
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