SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

[culdeus]

I suppose he was lazy

No, I counted it but did not include the peaks. I knew I easily could have been off one or two or not known exactly the tile count needed to trigger. That and I was too lazy to do it again. I think without the peaks counting it would have been just one tile enough to do it someone said.

 

[MacBalt]

I've only managed to read the first 20 pages of Murky's thread so far, but I'm already konvinced that luck had very little to do with their impressive results. My 2 cents: we should have been more careful (and earlier) with counting the tiles and we should have tried more test games with a domination theme. I can't really be upset about this though, having come into this game with so little knowledge about how to approach a Deity level game and now having gained so much -- especially about running a space race. It was a blast and I can't wait to try another SG.

I think I've come a little closer to agreeing with the Murky Team's acknowledged master of courtly manners and the diplomatic arts though:

Learning is only A HELL OF A LOT MORE fun when you win. I'm going to learn and have fun no matter what. The only question is whether we'll win.

Oh, and if Murky really does have anything that maybe ought to be konsidered an unfair advantage, it's not luck -- it's Klarius. Who IS that guy???

 

[ShannonCT]

Oh, and if Murky really does have anything that maybe ought to be konsidered an unfair advantage, it's not luck -- it's Klarius. Who IS that guy???

He's either:

A) a Jedi Master

or

B) someone who can read C++ code.

I'd vote for B. I had one quarter of programming in college about 10 years ago and even I can make pretty good guesses about what the C++ code means.

 

[BLubmuz]

Anyway i saw that some "domination" team achieved it fighting in the other continent, mainly for the pop limit.
Since we was very careful in signing OB, it was very late when we can have counted the tiles.
In addition i saw that many teams went for pyramids, and we avoided them.
That was probably a mistake: look at CRC's thread.
Pobably a detour on Masonry after Writing could have opened the mids.

Anyway, it was a good game, and a victory on deity is always a nice achievement.

 

[culdeus]

The big miscalculation I had was in the fact that utilizing diety AI vs. Diety AI would be so effective. I kept assuming that any wars would have to be fought mainly with our own troops and thus reduce sci % to an unmanageable case. Murky certainly utilized a ton of troops and kept the pressure on with many DoWs and used techs to bribe for wars. Most of my test games centered around a typical "breakout" strategy and not an attempt to get another AI the best position.

That and knowing that KK was the best AI to partner with helped a ton. There would have been 0 chance we would have picked him given his city count as well as location.

And yes, certainly the pop limit would have been an issue if one AI got a big jump on the others. MW was lucky in that way, but not so much luck as their sheer speed kept such a thing from happening.

 

[MacBalt]

He's either:

A) a Jedi Master

or

B) someone who can read C++ code.

I'd vote for B. I had one quarter of programming in college about 10 years ago and even I can make pretty good guesses about what the C++ code means.

I had some programming in college too, but in more ancient tongues than C++. Where does one go to open the magic file? I doubt I'd be able to make much of it, but it might be fun to try. (Anyway, it sounds a lot more do-able than the Jedi Master path! )

 

[ShannonCT]

I had some programming in college too, but in more ancient tongues than C++. Where does one go to open the magic file? I doubt I'd be able to make much of it, but it might be fun to try. (Anyway, it sounds a lot more do-able than the Jedi Master path! )

There are many files, each dealing with a different aspect of the game. They are in the folder called "CvGameCoreDLL". Each version of the game has this folder. In these folders, the C++ files have a .cpp extension.

 

[MacBalt]

Great. I'll check them out. Thanks ShannonCT!

@ WastinTime (below): Thanks for the guidance. Hope you won't mind if I come back to you with a few questions from time to time...

 

[WastinTime]

There are many files, each dealing with a different aspect of the game. They are in the folder called "CvGameCoreDLL". Each version of the game has this folder. In these folders, the C++ files have a .cpp extension.

There are a lot of files. If you're interesting in the AI behavior, there are files like PlayerAI, GameAI, CityAI, etc. that seem to deliver the most info.

 

[culdeus]

Great. I'll check them out. Thanks ShannonCT!

@ WastinTime (below): Thanks for the guidance. Hope you won't mind if I come back to you with a few questions from time to time...

Been messing around with GOTM31. I patched my BTS and can't play any of the BOTMs. I missed 31 the first time thru and I just went ahead and read your article.

I'm wondering if utilizing some of the stuff here can work meaning use KK as a PA partner and go for a partner domination victory.

I think that could at least be somewhat fruitful to get an AI with that mindset which Klarius identified.

 

[MacBalt]

I missed 31 the first time thru and I just went ahead and read your article.

I'm wondering if utilizing some of the stuff here can work meaning use KK as a PA partner and go for a partner domination victory.

I think Klarius' (& Murky's) read on KK was right on, but I don't think Permanent Alliances were enabled on GOTM 31.

The PA option isn't used much in GOTM (at least from my experience). I'd say the players who spend a lot of time in the HOF threads know a lot more about it than those of us who spend most of our time here at GOTM -- which is another thing that made Klarius' (and Murky's) insights on how to play the condition with Kublai so impressive. I was still trying to figure out exactly what a PA was at about the same time they were discussing which leaders might raise too many cities, etc. Kind of makes one want to try it out for oneself, no? Maybe Dynamic Spirit will put a PA condition into one of the "modified" BOTMs he's thinking about designing.

 

[culdeus]

I think Klarius' (& Murky's) read on KK was right on, but I don't think Permanent Alliances were enabled on GOTM 31.

The PA option isn't used much in GOTM (at least from my experience).

Oooof, well that's that then. Wonder why they aren't.

 

[Sweetacshon]

I've been hanging out for a SG, but can't seem to catch a new one in the SG forum, so does anyone here want to do a BTS conquest or dom target, say emperor level, standard size - or maybe small - random civs should be good practice for the nest sgotm?

 

[greatbeyond]

I've been waiting myself for the signups to be announced so I could have some idea what kind of map/difficulty level/civ to practice with. For now I guess I'll have to just keep trying practice games with BTS. To me it's almost like a whole new game with some of the changes made.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Hmmm... so that's a no?

I had a crack at botm9, it's an immortal inland sea with 7ish AI, and it shows that I need to do some work on dom/conquest in bts. Sure, civ/level/map make a difference, but in essence it's build army and crush.

 

[MacBalt]

I'm interested, but work is keeping me pretty busy again. I'm also having a go at BOTM 09 and just trying to find time to do that is a challenge. Still, a SG would be a lot of fun and as long as we take it slow enough I'm game to give it a try. I assume the format would be somewhat different than SGOTM?

 

[Sweetacshon]

I was just thinking of practice for the next sgotm. I just haven't warred enough in bts, and only once using 3.17. Considering (intelligent) aggression is rewarded in sgotms, maybe we could use the practice.

 

[MacBalt]

Yeah, I'm sure I could. So how would it work? Do we use this thread or communicate someplace else? (What/where is the "SG forum?")

On second thought, it looks like Gyathaar is going to post a new SG signup thread soon, so maybe we'd better just wait.

Sorry for taking so long to get another game going.. but the game setup I was originally planning to make requires a bit more map preparation and testing than i have time for at the current time, so I will push that idea to the next game...

Instead I will make a game based on another idea I have... so expect a signup thread for SGOTM08 soon (within a few days...)

 

[Sweetacshon]

There is a SG forum, a subset of stories and tales.

re: new game - well, that kind of scuppers that. I suppose we could get 100-150 turns in a few days, but we may as well wait for the settings and practice that. It also begs the question: Who is returning for the next s(b)gotm?? I'm certainly in.

 

[MacBalt]

I'll be back too, if y'all aren't sick of me yet!