SGOTM 07 - Murky Waters

[LowtherCastle]

LC Turnset

Turn 20, 3200bc, end-of-turn
WarW E
WarSE E to hill, preparing to scout down the Eastern side of the continent
Wkr1 SE
Work both crabs
Build scout

Turn 21, 3160bc
WarW NE to capital
WarSE NE to position next to Asoka's road
Wkr1 E to furs
No other status changes

Turn 22, 3120bc
WarW fortifies
WarSE fortifies
Wkr1 E camping furs
Lizzy in slavery
Asoka now pleased with LIzzy at +0 (can't remember if that's a change or not)
No other status changes

Turn 23, 3080bc
Wkr1 E camping furs
Asoka in slavery
Asoka toggles back to cautious with LIzzy at +0
HC toggles to pleased with Toku at +0
Bombay has an Oblelisk, but not sure when it appeared
Lizzy jumps into to first place in score (3rd city or border expansion or what?)
NY at pop2 (but forgot to check its pop last turn)
No other status changes

Turn 24, 3040bc
Wkr1 E camping furs
HC toggles back to cautious with Toku at +0
Asoka skyrockets into first place in score
Washington The B@$t@rd building a farm on one of 'our' forests
No other status changes

Turn 25, 3000bc
furs camped
Switch citizen from unimproved crabs to furs
Asoka toggles back to pleased with Lizzy at +0
No other status changes

Turn 26, 2960bc
Wkr1 W to marble
pop3
Citizens work both crabs, furs
switch build to wb
NY has built a barracks!, but farm/chop 2 turns from completion
Asoka toggles to pleased with HC at +3
HC finally in slavery
No other status changes

Turn 27, 2920bc
NY still has no obelisk and no religion so:
Wkr1 W to stone
NY South farm/chop that I didn't even notice is completed, one more next turn.
Bombay has built a barracks
HC to +2 with Asoka but still cautious
No other status changes

Turn 28, 2880bc
Wkr1 mining stone
NY 2nd farm/chop completed
HC toggles to pleased with Toku at +0
No other status changes

IT: I refuse OBs with HC

Turn 29, 2840bc -- incomplete
Writing complete
Wkr1 mining stone
Switch build to Library
HC at +2 with Washington and Asoka but still cautious

Note: New York still has no culture. That's New York for you. Elizabeth and Toku still haven't declared any religion. I assume we want OBs, but I'm stopping now for discussion. I'll upload the save if anyone thinks he needs to see it.

Turn 29, 2840bc -- continuing
OBs with Asoka, Washington, Lizzy, and HC
Move Scout SE
Move WarSE SE, who sees Delhi, which is Buddhist and
Meets Izzy, who founded Buddhism and evidently has the Mahabodhi already (or what?)
Izzy knows everyone but Lizzy
Izzy also has no current war plans
Izzy isn't in slavery yet
No other status changes

Note: I pause again, according to Gnejs' request.

Turn 30, 2800bc
Move Scout S
Move WarSE E S
Washington now pleased with Asoka at +2, up to +2 with HC but still cautious
No other status changes

Turn 31, 2760bc
Stone mine completed
Move Scout S SE
Move WarSE S SW SPies Toku's land. I decide not to go 4-turn detour to see Toku's coast. Rather make sure we meet everyone by Alpha. Hope we don't regret it.
No other status changes

Turn 32, 2720bc
Wkr1 S to Deer
Move Scout SW SW S W, Spies N tip of IncaLand
Move WarSE SW SW
New York still no religion or obelisk. We should keep our deers till T41!!!
No other status changes

Turn 33, 2680bc
Wkr1 camping Deer
Move Scout SW N NW W
Move WarSE SW, spies Freddie, a Buddhist who is annoyed with HC. WarSE signs OBs and moves SW.
Asoka has mined copper on grass to far south, but no horse pasture. Washington has neither horse pasture nor copper mine.
New York finally completes an Obelisk.
No other status changes

Turn 34, 2640bc
Wkr1 camping Deer
Move Scout SW Meets Buddhist ALex who can be bribed to war against everyone except his worst enemy, Washington (go figure ). Then NW NW NW to London.
Move WarSE SE SE, spies Izzy's land. I unwittingly missed a chance to spy Toku's capital across a lake tile.
Lizzy doesn't have a copper mine or a horse pasture.
No other status changes

We now know 8 AIs.

End of turnset.

Turnset log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3200 BC to 2640 BC:


Turn 21, 3160 BC: Elizabeth adopts Slavery!

Turn 22, 3120 BC: Asoka adopts Slavery!

Turn 25, 3000 BC: Huayna Capac adopts Slavery!

Turn 28, 2880 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 28, 2880 BC: You have trained a Scout in Murkyopolis. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.

Turn 33, 2680 BC: Murkyopolis will grow to size 4 on the next turn

Autolog:

Spoiler :

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 21/460 (3160 BC) [01-May-2008 12:19:47]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Elizabeth(England), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Elizabeth(England) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 22/460 (3120 BC) [01-May-2008 12:32:29]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Elizabeth(England), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 23/460 (3080 BC) [01-May-2008 12:38:59]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 24/460 (3040 BC) [01-May-2008 12:49:03]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Elizabeth(England), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 25/460 (3000 BC) [01-May-2008 12:54:48]
Murkyopolis grows: 3

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Elizabeth(England), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 26/460 (2960 BC) [01-May-2008 13:00:44]
Murkyopolis begins: Work Boat (5 turns)

IBT:

Turn 27/460 (2920 BC) [01-May-2008 13:09:50]

IBT:

Turn 28/460 (2880 BC) [01-May-2008 13:16:48]
Murkyopolis begins: Scout (1 turns)
Tech learned: Writing
Murkyopolis finishes: Scout

IBT:
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 29/460 (2840 BC) [01-May-2008 13:22:52]
Research begun: Alphabet (17 Turns)
Murkyopolis begins: Library (23 turns)
Contact made: Spanish Empire

IBT:
Attitude Change: Washington(America) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 30/460 (2800 BC) [01-May-2008 22:47:54]

IBT:

Turn 31/460 (2760 BC) [01-May-2008 22:53:51]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Washington(America) towards Asoka(India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 32/460 (2720 BC) [01-May-2008 23:06:31]

IBT:

Turn 33/460 (2680 BC) [01-May-2008 23:37:27]
Contact made: German Empire

IBT:

Turn 34/460 (2640 BC) [01-May-2008 23:49:49]
Contact made: Greek Empire

Here is the current state of affairs:

 

[klarius]

No. The critical point is really culture expansion by about T36-37.

Edit: crosspost

 

[LowtherCastle]

Comments:
The turnset has gone exactly as we planned. Nothing bad has happened. I have the SE warrior ready to enter Asoka's territory onto a road north of his capital. The warrior will quickly make headway down to where we think TOku is. I think the best route for the scout is SE past NY to the closest roads and then SW through Washington and over to explore Lizzy and further south.

 

[FiveAces]

Good turnset so far. Looks like we will be lucky with the furs. Hopefully that will continue to hold.

I have no objection to OB's with everyone.

Note: New York still has no culture. That's New York for you.

EDIT: What tile is the scout on now? It's missing from your report?

 

[klarius]

Ok, I think OB with everybody (except Toku obviously) is OK. That may mean we get a settlement to our west earlier, but we cannot avoid it anyway in the long run. And maybe somebody helps us then building roads through our territory .
Scouting should be no problem now that we have a scout . So I would recommend to do it thoroughly already also defogging as much coast as possible.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Btw, I think I might as well play the rest of the turnset tonight, unless any discussion requires more time. That should give everyone a chance to comment.

We don't want to move too slowly, I don't think, especially when we pretty much know what we want to do. Keep the flow going.

 

[FiveAces]

Ok, I think OB with everybody (except Toku obviously) is OK.

Yes that's what I meant, I just forgot to clarify except Toku. Thanks klarius.

NY was built with Wash's second starting settler, so that means there's an unkown AI directly below him. Suggest you drop the scount low enough if it swings through there on the way to Liz.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Good turnset so far. Looks like we will be lucky with the furs. Hopefully that will continue to hold.

I have no objection to OB's with everyone.



EDIT: What tile is the scout on now? It's missing from your report?

I haven't moved the scout yet.

Ok, I think OB with everybody (except Toku obviously) is OK. That may mean we get a settlement to our west earlier, but we cannot avoid it anyway in the long run. And maybe somebody helps us then building roads through our territory .
Scouting should be no problem now that we have a scout . So I would recommend to do it thoroughly already also defogging as much coast as possible.

Okay, OBs as much as possible. I'm hoping Lizzy settles up north asap so maybe we get a trade connection a bit earlier. Maybe even Hinduism spread sooner.

EDIT: And thorough scouting.

 

[LowtherCastle]

NY was built with Wash's second starting settler, so that means there's an unkown AI directly below him. Suggest you drop the scount low enough if it swings through there on the way to Liz.

Right. That's a good point. We'll see what the warrior can do. I'm guessing the top part of the continent looks kind of like Illinois-- coasts straight down to the east and bulging out to the west.

 

[FiveAces]

Right. That's a good point. We'll see what the warrior can do. I'm guessing the top part of the continent looks kind of like Illinois-- coasts straight down to the east and bulging out to the west.

Unless Gyanthaar heavily modified the map and made the continents run E-W.

 

[klarius]

Ok LC, I would like to have a look on the save.
Want to look a bit at score and power graphs.

 

[Gnejs]

Looking good LC. Nothing to add from me.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Ok LC, I would like to have a look on the save.
Want to look a bit at score and power graphs.

Here you go. EDIT: Planning to play around 10-11 pm tonight, but I'll wait for any further comments from you.

 

[Gnejs]

Here you go. EDIT: Planning to play around 10-11 pm tonight, but I'll wait for any further comments from you.

Go ahead. On diplomacy, give in to any demands from Hindu AIs, especially Asoka. Don't give in to any demands to stop trading with hindu AIs. Don't be afraid to antagonize AIs on the lower half of the score ladder. These are the targets that we will set our friends on anyway.

If it turns out that we have Buddhism on our continent then stop and let us reassess the situation.

 

[Erkon]

Why not open borders with Toku?

 

[klarius]

Why not open borders with Toku?

Because he will not do it, before pleased (IOW probably never).

 

[LowtherCastle]

Well, that didn't take long. Before finishing Turn 29 I met Izzy by sighting Delhi. She founded Buddhism, so I paused again, according to Gnejs' request.

Izzy is second to last in score, slightly ahead of Toku.

EDIT: I assume I should just continue, but hold off on OBs with Izzy until I sight her land and then we decide. Feedback, anyone?

EDIT1: Izzy knows everyone but LIzzy.

 

[klarius]

Well, that didn't take long. Before finishing Turn 29 I met Izzy by sighting Delhi. She founded Buddhism, so I paused again, according to Gnejs' request.

Izzy is second to last in score, slightly ahead of Toku.

Well, it doesn't help much to pause.

We know now that we have a little bit a complex situation, that's all.

I would still follow the path to OB everybody. Izzy herself shouldn't be much of a problem with our peaceful neighbors. Other civs with her religion more so.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, I'll continue. Is it better to OB with Izzy now, or does it matter?

 

[klarius]

You can wait until you are on her borders. OTOH that shouldn't take long .