SGOTM 07 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Jabah
Emperor
I am at work , so can't check the game, so forgive the 'silly' questions than could be quickly answer with the save open.
1. Since Asoka has plenty of gold.
Do we need to be within our border to upgrade troops , or being inside Asoka's is fine?
(we should upgrade these muskets, grenadiers and maces, in that order).
2. Who has Open Border with Khan ?
3. Fred 2nd city will be a pain culturally (for Madrid mainly). What is Fred tech level (artillery/infantry) ?
4. I can't remember if the 4th coal is within Caesar or Khan border.
But I think, they both will be our next victims (after Isa of course)
Jabah
PS: OMG, Kodii, you engage our only medic at 85% odds !!! . lucky that you won that one otherwise
(medic 1, so no big deal, we could have had another one anytime)
1. Since Asoka has plenty of gold.
Do we need to be within our border to upgrade troops , or being inside Asoka's is fine?
(we should upgrade these muskets, grenadiers and maces, in that order).
2. Who has Open Border with Khan ?
3. Fred 2nd city will be a pain culturally (for Madrid mainly). What is Fred tech level (artillery/infantry) ?
4. I can't remember if the 4th coal is within Caesar or Khan border.
But I think, they both will be our next victims (after Isa of course)
Jabah
PS: OMG, Kodii, you engage our only medic at 85% odds !!! . lucky that you won that one otherwise
(medic 1, so no big deal, we could have had another one anytime)Jabah
Emperor
Another thing regarding worker job.
I would be tempted (now that we have electricity) to build watermills on the 2 river tiles instead of farm (and maybe workshop in the last farm if enough food). Since we have (or will have soon) health problem, no point having extra pop, and we can revolt to caste/state prop (need to check the diff between vanilla and BtS on that as well) later.
I would keep the cottage (alsmost town) that we inherited from GW.
I would be tempted (now that we have electricity) to build watermills on the 2 river tiles instead of farm (and maybe workshop in the last farm if enough food). Since we have (or will have soon) health problem, no point having extra pop, and we can revolt to caste/state prop (need to check the diff between vanilla and BtS on that as well) later.
I would keep the cottage (alsmost town) that we inherited from GW.
Kodii
Ka ICE
I'm actually going to have to pass it off, if I can't get to it by tonight. I'm having troubles organizing my time this week 
Kodii
Ka ICE
Ignore that. I found some time and will play shortly.
Kodii
Ka ICE
T0 1560AD - I take Jabah's advice and ask for gold from Asoka to upgrade our muskets and maces (not the medic); I notice Asoka is planning to send some units down to Mongolia, which would be a waste of his time, so I declare on Izzy immediately in hopes of averting his plans
T1 1565AD - It works, except now he lands four Infantry beside Madrid, which are likely to be destroyed anyways. I hold troops in Kyoto as Izzy is sending an assault party.
T2 1570AD - Some Spanish and Mongolian troops are sneaking into our lands, so I ask Fred to close borders with both Izzy and Kublai, as well as some other small tidbits in exchange for Biology (which is of little to no use to him)
T4 1580AD - I almost missed a nasty stack of units that Kublai shipped to us, which I attempt to slowly whittle down
IBT - Lizzy declares war on HC and captures Athens
T5 1585AD - I upgrade our lone Galleon to a transport in hopes of preventing Kublai from entering our water space.
T6 1590AD - Our transport successfully defends, but cannot stop the massive fleet from pillaging all our nets outside of the city
IBT - Lizzy asks us to join the war against HC... so I'm pausing here to hopefully get some feedback.
I personally say YES, especially since we plan to keep Lizzy for a while, and she'll take care of most of the work. Plus, we want HC's coal and he shouldn't be able to pose much of a threat against us.
A triple war
What do you think?
T1 1565AD - It works, except now he lands four Infantry beside Madrid, which are likely to be destroyed anyways. I hold troops in Kyoto as Izzy is sending an assault party.
T2 1570AD - Some Spanish and Mongolian troops are sneaking into our lands, so I ask Fred to close borders with both Izzy and Kublai, as well as some other small tidbits in exchange for Biology (which is of little to no use to him)
T4 1580AD - I almost missed a nasty stack of units that Kublai shipped to us, which I attempt to slowly whittle down
IBT - Lizzy declares war on HC and captures Athens
T5 1585AD - I upgrade our lone Galleon to a transport in hopes of preventing Kublai from entering our water space.
T6 1590AD - Our transport successfully defends, but cannot stop the massive fleet from pillaging all our nets outside of the city
IBT - Lizzy asks us to join the war against HC... so I'm pausing here to hopefully get some feedback.
I personally say YES, especially since we plan to keep Lizzy for a while, and she'll take care of most of the work. Plus, we want HC's coal and he shouldn't be able to pose much of a threat against us.
A triple war
What do you think?
Kodii
Ka ICE
Well I knew I wouldn't get my hopes up to hear a reply within the next couple hours, so instead of letting it sit on my computer, I decided we needed to move ahead, and I plan to take Lizzy's request to attack HC.
Reasoning:
- HC's power is taken a drastic downturn
- The majority is his army is situated in his capital (Cuzco) which we can attack from Asoka's land (I don't expect him to launch an attack, but remain on the offensive)
- Spain will be eliminated next turn
- HC is a prime next target
- HC has coal
- We don't want to anger Lizzy any further (she's Cautious)
Reasoning:
- HC's power is taken a drastic downturn
- The majority is his army is situated in his capital (Cuzco) which we can attack from Asoka's land (I don't expect him to launch an attack, but remain on the offensive)
- Spain will be eliminated next turn
- HC is a prime next target
- HC has coal
- We don't want to anger Lizzy any further (she's Cautious)
Kodii
Ka ICE
T7 1595AD - Clean up the Mongolian troops around Malabar
IBT - Saladin completes Apollo Program
T8 1600AD - Like clockwork:
IBT - LIzzy completes Apollo Program
T9 1605AD - Industrialism in. We have Aluminum! (Asoka has 2) Where?
Ok...
And here I stop, as tempting as it is to continue.
Our army is healing in Hamburg and Madrid is entrenched in Roman and German culture, so we may need to help with the garrison there (will it make any difference?)
Future Plans:
Tech: Plastics?
Worker Orders: Reconnect oil (for tanks), mine aluminum, watermill farms (?)
**Note: New York is stealing our tiles again
War Path: Cuzco -> Sparta -> Tiwanaku
**Note: HC has little to no army left, so we may need to skip the healing phase and make an immediate assault.
Builds: Workboats until oil is connected (?) - we need the health back
Civics: Do we need/want to change?
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_AD1605_01.Civ4SavedGame
IBT - Saladin completes Apollo Program
T8 1600AD - Like clockwork:
IBT - LIzzy completes Apollo Program
T9 1605AD - Industrialism in. We have Aluminum! (Asoka has 2) Where?
Ok...
And here I stop, as tempting as it is to continue.
Our army is healing in Hamburg and Madrid is entrenched in Roman and German culture, so we may need to help with the garrison there (will it make any difference?)
Future Plans:
Tech: Plastics?
Worker Orders: Reconnect oil (for tanks), mine aluminum, watermill farms (?)
**Note: New York is stealing our tiles again
War Path: Cuzco -> Sparta -> Tiwanaku
**Note: HC has little to no army left, so we may need to skip the healing phase and make an immediate assault.
Builds: Workboats until oil is connected (?) - we need the health back
Civics: Do we need/want to change?
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_AD1605_01.Civ4SavedGame
Spoiler :
Jabah
Emperor
Capac
I would have voted for the War with Capac as well
We have always wanted (part of) his lands that at some point.
The only problem will be to manage to convince Asoka to capture Capac cities (city?) before Lisa does it. (one -Cuzco- seems to be on Asoka border, so it could be a good possibility IF Asoka has some free troops to send there)
Our top priority should be getting access to Coal (or is there anything more important right now).
Build order
Before getting Oil for tanks we could build a few marines if we have enough artillery.
Maybe we could sneak a destroyer (or any modern boat) at some point to defend our fish.
Research
Plastics would be my suggestion, to be able to build a factory and hydro plant.
Fred and culture
On one of the picture, it seems that Hamburg is defended by rifle only. Shouldn't we declare on Fred to capture (raze?) Hamburg to free Madrid and Kyoto.
edit : there is a coal 3W of Madrid (and 3S of Hamburg) as well. (not sure it will be inside our border without capturing Berlin as well)
Jabah
I would have voted for the War with Capac as well
We have always wanted (part of) his lands that at some point.
The only problem will be to manage to convince Asoka to capture Capac cities (city?) before Lisa does it. (one -Cuzco- seems to be on Asoka border, so it could be a good possibility IF Asoka has some free troops to send there)
Our top priority should be getting access to Coal (or is there anything more important right now).
Build order
Before getting Oil for tanks we could build a few marines if we have enough artillery.
Maybe we could sneak a destroyer (or any modern boat) at some point to defend our fish.
Research
Plastics would be my suggestion, to be able to build a factory and hydro plant.
Fred and culture
On one of the picture, it seems that Hamburg is defended by rifle only. Shouldn't we declare on Fred to capture (raze?) Hamburg to free Madrid and Kyoto.
edit : there is a coal 3W of Madrid (and 3S of Hamburg) as well. (not sure it will be inside our border without capturing Berlin as well)
Jabah
Kodii
Ka ICE
We have one Destroyer. I upgraded our Caravel when Kublai came looking for trouble.
It's probably just my graphic settings. There are a lot more troops in Hamburg. In fact, he has Infantry.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Looking at save...
How do we want to win ... conquest? domination? space? I think our best option at the moment is space. We need to tech rocketry to open up the apollo program but plastics is ok as that will open up the Hoover Dam.
Plan for my set (can play either tonight or tomorrow):
- Liz is not open for any more wars
- Fred is open to war against Mongolia or Inca at the cost of Electricity
- JC isn't open to war
How do we want to win ... conquest? domination? space? I think our best option at the moment is space. We need to tech rocketry to open up the apollo program but plastics is ok as that will open up the Hoover Dam.
Plan for my set (can play either tonight or tomorrow):
- keep waring against Inca
- sign for peace with Mongolia (too far away at present)
- Bribe Fred against Mongolia
- Finish when Inca are dead
Kodii
Ka ICE
Sounds good. I don't think theres much need for discussion, especially since we need to get this game finished on time, so go ahead and continue!
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
I've stopped after a few turns. India is very slow pushing the war with their units but it should speed up now that they have tanks. I even gifted them an infantry right next to an Inca city (1 heavily wondered rifle defending) to try and speed them up.
The English captured one of the Incan cities, India the other and I am down at the 3rd waiting for Indian units to turn up (I have asked for support).
The reason I stopped ... I think we should declare on Rome next (very backwards) and we will need some time to build some tanks and battle ships to take out Germany (their forces are being depleted by Mongolia after I bribed him into war - cost me electricity but I got world map and 120 gold for it too) and England (we will need very good ship protection when we attach England). I built Artillery and a Dry Dock - started on a Battleship.
4 Civs have Rocketry: England, Russia, Persia and Arabia. I didn't see any ship parts built but I might have missed that.
Russia also has plastics - we are 9 turns away from it. Why are we teching this and not rocketry? Do we want to land Hoover Dam?
Why attack Rome ...
I hate it when they destroy my town for no reason!
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_AD1630_01.Civ4SavedGame
The English captured one of the Incan cities, India the other and I am down at the 3rd waiting for Indian units to turn up (I have asked for support).
The reason I stopped ... I think we should declare on Rome next (very backwards) and we will need some time to build some tanks and battle ships to take out Germany (their forces are being depleted by Mongolia after I bribed him into war - cost me electricity but I got world map and 120 gold for it too) and England (we will need very good ship protection when we attach England). I built Artillery and a Dry Dock - started on a Battleship.
4 Civs have Rocketry: England, Russia, Persia and Arabia. I didn't see any ship parts built but I might have missed that.
Russia also has plastics - we are 9 turns away from it. Why are we teching this and not rocketry? Do we want to land Hoover Dam?
Why attack Rome ...
I hate it when they destroy my town for no reason!
Spoiler log :
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_AD1630_01.Civ4SavedGame
Kodii
Ka ICE
I agree with the analysis, and Rome should probably be next to go. Plus, it'll be on the way to Mongolia. (We are going to have an ugly front against Fred)
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
will declare on Rome later tonight - report after that or tomorrow morning. I actually like the front against Germany - will detail in my report. I also scouted England - will detail that too.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
I demanded 170 gold from JC and then declared war. Oh the joys of playing vanilla instead of BtS. Unfortunately, I missed that JC had a defensive pact with Saladin - he has sent 7 or 8 destroyers at Asoka (who lost his nets) but nothing else. He will still not speak to us.
News!
Turn 237, 1635 AD: Tiwanaku has been captured by the English Empire!!!
Turn 237, 1635 AD: The Incan Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Turn 244, 1670 AD: Rome has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 244, 1670 AD: The Roman Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Also, look thru the log above for spaceship parts - lots of people are starting to get into the fun.
We finished plastics - forgot to check on the hoover dam - and started Rocketry.
Germany
Fred has 2 cities - Hamburg is within 1 tile (northern red dot below - a nice mountain!) of India's border and should fall fairly quickly when hostilities break out. It is poorly defended (3 infantry and 2 machine gun). Berlin is currently heavily defended and the closest non-river crossing tile is a grassland (but it is only 2 tiles away.
England
England will be a much tougher nut to crack. Her lands are spread North / South over a wide area, mostly coastal (hmm - naval attacks maybe) and she has a fair sized navy. Most of her forces are in the South, so a quick attack could net us London and York pretty quickly.
Note: the Sparta information in the screenshot is a little (2 to 3 turns) out of date.
England also have another city further South that might hold some units too.
News!
Turn 237, 1635 AD: Tiwanaku has been captured by the English Empire!!!
Turn 237, 1635 AD: The Incan Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Turn 244, 1670 AD: Rome has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 244, 1670 AD: The Roman Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Also, look thru the log above for spaceship parts - lots of people are starting to get into the fun.
We finished plastics - forgot to check on the hoover dam - and started Rocketry.
Germany
Fred has 2 cities - Hamburg is within 1 tile (northern red dot below - a nice mountain!) of India's border and should fall fairly quickly when hostilities break out. It is poorly defended (3 infantry and 2 machine gun). Berlin is currently heavily defended and the closest non-river crossing tile is a grassland (but it is only 2 tiles away.
England
England will be a much tougher nut to crack. Her lands are spread North / South over a wide area, mostly coastal (hmm - naval attacks maybe) and she has a fair sized navy. Most of her forces are in the South, so a quick attack could net us London and York pretty quickly.
Note: the Sparta information in the screenshot is a little (2 to 3 turns) out of date.
England also have another city further South that might hold some units too.
Kodii
Ka ICE
Great work ruff! I guess our rush to get this finished proved to be a blunder despite our already made failure to check for DPs before declaring on Tokugawa. A war with Saladin? 
I am personally rather unsure of what direction to head next. My gut says take out Fred or Lizzy next, but that might require quite the preparation. We also need to prepare for any sort of campaign led by Saladin. The Vanilla AI sucks at oversea wars, so we should probably do fine.
ruff, it seems like you have quite a few ideas following your turnset, so perhaps you may be able to provide the insight we need.
EDIT: X-Posted. You already did
I am personally rather unsure of what direction to head next. My gut says take out Fred or Lizzy next, but that might require quite the preparation. We also need to prepare for any sort of campaign led by Saladin. The Vanilla AI sucks at oversea wars, so we should probably do fine.
ruff, it seems like you have quite a few ideas following your turnset, so perhaps you may be able to provide the insight we need.
EDIT: X-Posted. You already did
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Roster
ruff_hi [just played]
sooooo [up]
Swiss Pauli [on deck]
chmoosi [in the hole]
Compromise
Jabah
Kodii
Oh ... Turn 242, 1660 AD: You have made peace with Kublai Khan! He had sent a galleon North with troops and I didn't want Asoka to take his eyes of Rome. Mongolia has 2 cities, capital size 17 and the other size 2 (so basically 1 city and a camp). We can roll over him when ever we want to ... unless Fred takes him out first.
We took a bit of a beating killing off Rome and most of our units are injured and in Rome - a Medic II unit would be nice. We have 2 battleships, 1 destroyer and 1 transport blocking approach our city (that should be enough). We have 3 (or maybe 4) tanks - all of them in India, 1 South of Germany and the others North. Asoka gave us Aluminium during my set.
ruff_hi [just played]
sooooo [up]
Swiss Pauli [on deck]
chmoosi [in the hole]
Compromise
Jabah
Kodii
Oh ... Turn 242, 1660 AD: You have made peace with Kublai Khan! He had sent a galleon North with troops and I didn't want Asoka to take his eyes of Rome. Mongolia has 2 cities, capital size 17 and the other size 2 (so basically 1 city and a camp). We can roll over him when ever we want to ... unless Fred takes him out first.
We took a bit of a beating killing off Rome and most of our units are injured and in Rome - a Medic II unit would be nice. We have 2 battleships, 1 destroyer and 1 transport blocking approach our city (that should be enough). We have 3 (or maybe 4) tanks - all of them in India, 1 South of Germany and the others North. Asoka gave us Aluminium during my set.
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