I was reading that thread about "WFYABTA", which is old, and discover (maybe everyone knows that) that you won't have this problem if:
* we are friendly with the trading AI (not too easy right now)
* we are both (us + trading AI) are at the bottom half in the score (easy for us, possible for the AI)
Once in a PA, relations are the team average (round down), so usually not friendly (need both friendly exclusively)
If this is really true (no reason to doubt that), it really show that getting 'friendly' with as many AIs as possible (especially low score ones) is very good for anextra reason.
I like Jabah's plan of keeping the city configuration until the WB is built, then hiring 2 scientists and working 2 crabs and starting an archer at low production.
We need to get some trade routes going, both for an extra gold and the ability to trade resources, so that means roading the marble and opening borders with Washington. I also think we should open borders with HC. When we can, we should trade resources with HC, hopefully for a happy resource to allow us to grow.
After alphabet I think self-research mysticism, and after that trade around for poly, BW, sailing, masonry etc.
Sooooo, I am not that sue about OB with GW, he is not very popular (to say it gently) because of his own religion.
If we road the silver (which we want), and Lisa road the forrest behind, we could have trade through her. (Also at alphabet, we could (should?) pick sailing for sea trading route.
I would do some trading the turn we have alphabet (for masonry, BW and possibly math the 1st turn, and IW and some other the next turn) to avoid having to give it to a demand before we can get anything.
Anyway, I suggest the next player play up to alphabet and stop at the beginning of trun so we have all the data to discuss.
Turnset Plans - Let me know if I have something wrong
Tech: Alphabet (end turnset immediately after learning)
Builds: WB -> Archer
Tiles: Current configuration (deer, crab, stone, hill) until WB INCLUDING the turn it takes for it to move; switch to 2 crabs 2 scientists
OR
Micro to get WB done in 2 (ie Option 1)
Exploring/OB: OB with Asoka, HC, send warrior through to Cuzco; send GuerillaI archer towards India? (must take a long route b/c of America)
Turnset Plans - Let me know if I have something wrong
Tech: Alphabet (end turnset immediately after learning)
Builds: WB -> Archer
Tiles: Current configuration (deer, crab, stone, hill) until WB INCLUDING the turn it takes for it to move; switch to 2 crabs 2 scientists
OR
Micro to get WB done in 3 (ie Option 1)
Exploring/OB: OB with Asoka, HC, send warrior through to Cuzco; send GuerillaI archer towards India? (must take a long route b/c of America)
I think you look good to go, Kodii. If you happen to get a demand for Alphabet in the interturn as you discover it, think carefully before giving it away. Maybe only to Capac?
Actually... I don't have the time to get to it tonight as I want to get enough rest for my exams, so this will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon. In the meantime, continue the discussion on who to pair with
(I am unsure about HC... as I predict he is currently an OCC as well, but we'll find out soon enough)
Turnset Plans - Let me know if I have something wrong
Tech: Alphabet (end turnset immediately after learning)
Builds: WB -> Archer
Tiles: Current configuration (deer, crab, stone, hill) until WB INCLUDING the turn it takes for it to move; switch to 2 crabs 2 scientists
OR
Micro to get WB done in 2 (ie Option 1)
Exploring/OB: OB with Asoka, HC, send warrior through to Cuzco; send GuerillaI archer towards India? (must take a long route b/c of America)
I would only OB with Asoka the turn we reach his land, just to be on the safe side if we discover something really bad (ie GW declares on him or he changes religion)
Roading : we could consider roading the marble just after the deer (so before silver -it doesn't change the total time-, so if we (or more likely another AI - since we don't really want that) have OB with GW, we already all trading opportunity (or do we both need OB with GW for ressources to go through GW lands?)
Road to England : the worker will be too busy for a while (we should have at least masonry for marble, and hopefully metal to mine)
Jabah
PS - I don't think I have ever see the AI making an (arrogant) demand for a tech jsut discovered in the IBT.
After some computer problems and crashing, here we go:
T0 2000BC - Cancel camp, start road; OB with HC; Meet Freddy who appears to be the aggressor in the war against HC (-3 You declare war on us); He is Buddhist, third on the score list below GW and Asoka, and he has the greatest land area; I send out a Guerilla I archer to explore as well
T1 1960BC - We don't make the Most Advanced list... surprising ; micro Malabar to finish WB in 1
IBT - Pyramids BIADL
T2 1920BC - Hire 2 scientists, send WB to crabs; Begin archer (due in 13)
IBT - Izzy completes the Oracle but Lizzy founds Confucianism in York...
T3 1880BC - Uhh... the silver tile goes from 81% Chinese to 75% ; Worker roads marble; We cannot make any trades with the Crab (Toku won't trade clams)
T4 1840BC - Silver is down to 71%
IBT - Freddy asks for OB, I politely decline for now
T5 1800BC - Silver is down to 70%, it should be safe
IBT - Izzy asks for OB, I politely decline for now; Judaism spread to Malabar; Great Lighthouse is BIADL
T6 1760BC - Silver is down to 68%; I begin to mine
T7 1720BC - I discover an English settler party heading into Indian lands; Silver stays at 68% ; I bump research up to 100% to finish Alphabet 1T early
IBT - The settler party is dancing between India and Inca
T8 1680BC - I OB with Asoka
T9 1640BC - I notice we now have the +1 peace bonus with all AIs; Asoka is already Pleased
T10 1600BC - Malabar grows to size 5 and unhappy; Silver mine complete
T11 1560BC - Worker begins to road silver and We are the FIRST to Alphabet!
Glance:
Here is the tech screen:
Washington won't trade anything for Writing
Izzy won't trade anything for Pottery
Asoka will only trade Mysticism for Pottery (take it?)
Only Asoka has Math and won't trade it. I guess we were too fast even for ourselves.
Asoka will declare war on Washington ; but neither Pottery nor Alphabet nor both will bribe him into it
I would maybe hold off trading Alphabet until we research Mysticism, but with each extra turn, there is a greater chance that an AI will research it...
Turn 51, 1960 BC: The Pyramids has been built in a far away land!
Turn 52, 1920 BC: Confucianism has been founded in York!
Turn 52, 1920 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!
Turn 55, 1800 BC: Judaism has spread in Malabar Front.
Turn 55, 1800 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!
Turn 58, 1680 BC: Malabar Front will become unhappy on the next turn
Turn 58, 1680 BC: Washington adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 59, 1640 BC: Malabar Front has grown to size 5
Turn 59, 1640 BC: Malabar Front has become unhappy
Turn 60, 1600 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 60, 1600 BC: Elizabeth adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 60, 1600 BC: Merit Ptah has been born in a far away land!
Turn 61, 1560 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Frederick, Washington, Asoka, Elizabeth, Alexander, Huayna Capac, Isabella
- Control of Marble has stabilised: 64% now, was 65% 11 turns ago, so it's worth pursuing GLib.
- We can shave a turn off Myst by building research.
- Maybe we should start a second worker once the silver is mined: he'll take 15 turns now, but the extra citizen will bring that down. Might be worth running the numbers at least.
- I have to revise my position on Asoka/GW: Asoka has metal and GW not (as far as we can see).
- GW has OBs w Fred and Liz. None of these in WHEOOH.
- Fred has a base WFYABTA of 10 (which is better than Bismarck). USUF is his civic.
- Asoka has Calendar (he's building a plantation).
- We should move a couple of archers to the marble tile, and bring the explorer back (he really didn't achieve much).
- We could risk Judaism, but I'm not convinced by it.
- It was HC who declared on Fred, not vice versa.
EDIT: maybe we should OBs with Fred. He's not getting on with Capac, but is otherwise well liked, and he has two cities so it would be handy to see what his land is like, and what lies to his south.
Good turns, Kodii. It looks to me like we won't be trading Alphabet until we get Mysticism. But checking every turn to see if our monopoly is over is probably a must.
maybe we should OBs with Fred. He's not getting on with Capac, but is otherwise well liked, and he has two cities so it would be handy to see what his land is like, and what lies to his south.
I think exploring through Germany is a good idea. I'd like to see more of the lay of the land. We could even close the borders as soon as we're given that option and hope that Capac doesn't ask us to do it earlier (can he even ask us if we can't do on our own?)
Game update: We're back to the top of the order with Ruff_hi up and sooooo on deck. I don't feel a need to rush here, and I'd like to look over the game and get some more input about tech trades. At a first pass, I agree with what Swiss has written.
Ruff: why don't you write up a quick list of proposed turnset goals. I think we might even have you run another micro-turn where we learn Mysticism before continuing on.
Firstly, I think that there is some land under the yellow circle ...
Why? Because of the tree shadow shown here ...
Observations ...
change built to science, get mysticism in 2
current city config (2x netted crabs, 2x scientist) brings in 28 beakers and 2 hammers (30 beakers if we convert production to science)
Great Scientist in (100-54)/6 = 8 turns - building Academy(?)
tech options:
mysticism (2)
Drama (12)
Sailing (4)
Maths (10)
Masonry (3)
Bronze (5)
teching mysticism will also open up meditation and polytheism and (maybe) shorten the time for masonry
max hammers (sans silver) is 10 hammers
max hammers (+ silver) is 13 hammers
quarry on the marble will give +1H, +2C
max hammers to GLib (350H) if marble quarried (assuming silver) = 14 x 2 = 28 or 13 turns
we have OB with Huayna (can cancel), Liz (can cancel) and Asoka (can cancel in 7)
Initial Plans
not sure what next break point is
move scouting archer (India) East to shore, return to capital after revealing ocean
move scouting warrior W around Japan towards Greece, sign OB with Alex when required to explore Greece
research mysticism in 3, leave production into archer, put beaker overflow into literature
finish roading silver (3)
move to deer, finish camp (that will change that tile to 4F2H for 2 extra hammers when we build the GLib bring the (13) above to (11) - however, this can wait as we are prob 10+ turns from literature
what else do we want to do with the worker in the mean time ... pre chop? road to sheep (pasture on sheep will yield +2 food, +1 commerce, +1 health)
I forgot to mention in my report that I tested with all the AIs what they would give me for Alphabet, and it was all generally the same (some variations if the AI didn't have a tech that all the others did), which would indicate that no AIs have considerable beakers invested into Alphabet yet, so we should be safe when Mysticism comes in 2.
Regarding GLib.. Can someone offer some E.T.As about its completion? I still can't CIV until next weekas I'm getting a new monitor, so I'm not able to check the save..
Pre-chop sound very sensible to me. I'd want to chop 2 forests for it to be sure, and whip as many as possible, so would it be feasible to grow to at least size 6? If we're going to aim for Glib, we should be as quick as possible because losing it would suck big time.
I prefer mysticism in 2 turns to get to trading tech as fast as possible.
Judaism should be considered, but maybe leave it after Glib so that we minimize our chances getting declared by George W (actually, how big negative bonuses do we get from being heathens in his eyes?).
Shouldn't worker build the marble quarry before the deer for the increased commerce (+3 yea?)? This is of course if we trade masonry, but I'm kinda assuming that.
Hats off for ruff for the spotting of land. That's a new trick for me . Keep up the good work everyone.
Ruff, how about if you run another partial turn. Get Mysticism in 2T and we'll evaluate the tech trade opportunities.
I know that back in Vanilla, the tech overflow calculation gave you the bonus beakers for "prerequisites known" based on the tech you'd just finished researching rather than the new one you chose. Is that still true? If it is, then it would mean we'd want minimum overflow out of a no-prereq tech like Mysticism.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
; micro Malabar to finish WB in 1
; Worker roads marble; We cannot make any trades with the Crab (Toku won't trade clams)
; I bump research up to 100% to finish Alphabet 1T early
; but neither Pottery nor Alphabet nor both will bribe him into it
