SGOTM 07 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[chmoosi]

Oh RNG, why do you treat me so wrong:

Boys and girls, meet Homer. He tells good stories.

Last turn GW killed two of his longbows to our archers. The warrior met his doom in the hands of a longbow. City is safe, but pillaging has commenced, sit back and marvel.

We're going to lose 1pt happiness next turn as our silver is taken away. I switched the deer-incense deal to sheep-incense so we won't be losing that at least yet.

The absence of Philo makes things queasy. I'm finding hard to figure out how to catch that forward momentum again.. Homer would give us drama but bulbing that is a bit of a waste. We should just settle him I guess.

 

[chmoosi]

The save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_BC0650_01.Civ4SavedGame

If the next person wishes to take over I don't mind. Here's the detailed turn log

Spoiler :

Turn 87, 700 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Malabar Front!
Turn 87, 700 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Malabar Front!
Turn 87, 700 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Washington
Turn 87, 700 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Frederick, Washington, Julius Caesar, Asoka, Elizabeth, Kublai Khan, Alexander, Isabella
Turn 87, 700 BC: Can Trade Open Borders with: Kublai Khan, Alexander, Isabella
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Archer (8.55)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 23.3%
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Hills: +45%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer has defeated Washington's Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a American Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Archer (8.55)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 23.3%
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Hills: +45%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer has defeated Washington's Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a American Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Archer (8.55)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 23.3%
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Hills: +45%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer has defeated Washington's Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a American Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Archer (7.95)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 27.0%
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer has defeated Washington's Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a American Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Archer (7.95)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 27.0%
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 87, 700 BC: Washington's Longbowman has defeated SGOTM07's Archer!
Turn 87, 700 BC: While defending, your Archer was destroyed by a American Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: A Quarry has been destroyed by a marauding American Longbowman!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Harkuf has been born in Rome!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Malabar Front's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 88, 675 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Malabar Front!
Turn 88, 675 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Malabar Front!
Turn 88, 675 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Kublai Khan, Alexander
Turn 88, 675 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Frederick, Washington, Julius Caesar, Asoka, Elizabeth, Kublai Khan, Alexander, Isabella
Turn 88, 675 BC: Can Trade Open Borders with: Kublai Khan, Alexander, Isabella
Turn 88, 675 BC: The borders of Malabar Front have expanded!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Homer has been born in Malabar Front!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Warrior (3.00)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Warrior is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Warrior is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Warrior is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Warrior is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman has defeated SGOTM07's Warrior!
Turn 88, 675 BC: While defending, your Warrior was destroyed by a American Longbowman!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.60) vs SGOTM07's Archer (9.34)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Combat Odds: 19.2%
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Plot Defense: +85%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Hills: +75%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 16 (77/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 16 (61/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 16 (45/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 16 (29/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 16 (13/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer has defeated Washington's Longbowman!
Turn 88, 675 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a American Longbowman!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman (6.00) vs SGOTM07's Archer (9.34)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Combat Odds: 4.9%
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Plot Defense: +85%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Hills: +75%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 15 (78/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer is hit for 15 (63/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Washington's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 88, 675 BC: SGOTM07's Archer has defeated Washington's Longbowman!
Turn 88, 675 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a American Longbowman!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Thespis has been born in Delhi!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Angkor Wat has been built in a far away land!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Zu Chongzhi has been born in a far away land!
Turn 88, 675 BC: Al-Kindi has been born in a far away land!

Turn 89, 650 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Malabar Front!
Turn 89, 650 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Malabar Front!

 

[Jabah]

Delete, hit wrong keyboard at wrong time

 

[Jabah]

Arrrggh this time the RNG really hates us... (and make me feel really bad to have convinced everyone to take the little% of GA risk)

We will lose all our (not seafood) ressource, either from straight pillage or road disconnection.

We probably should revolt to slavery and whip a temple to save what could be saved (and then a granry to regrow as fast as possible once GW will talk about peace).

To be honnest, I would rather have GW more annoyed at us for having brought another Ai to war than being pillage to death and stay nice to him (and take risk for him to get construction to soon).

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Ack! Nothing else to do but settle the bugger.

I think a while in Slavery to get a temple, then build a Lighthouse to support the pop...try to get peace (whip a granary) then go to Caste/HR. Try to keep Scientists hired as much as possible even during Slaving phase.

 

[Compromise]

...
- The RNG is a [expletive deleted]; I'm glad we planned for the worst because we certainly got it!

No <insert expletive of choice> kidding!


Okay, I think I'm up, so I'll take it from here chmoosi.

I agree the plans suggested so far: Slave, temple, lighthouse, granary. Settle Homer (Rename Malabar to Springfield ). Keep eyes peeled for peace opportunity. Keep scientists hired. Caste+HR civic change. Weep at what might have been....

 

[Jabah]

I had a (quite long) look at the save and have several remarks/ideas.
(some are pretty descriptive so people could get an idea without opening the save)

Military situation
GW: still doesn't want to talk and has 6 lgbow visible (in 5 different tiles) but only 1 next to us (2 slightly injured). So he will pillage us to stone age.
Us: Axe + 4archer (3guerillaII, 1guerillaI - 1 badly injured, 1slightly injured). Cultural 60%.
Archer possibly finishing next turn (15/25)

other AIs
No one is ready to help, and GW has 'minus' for declaring on us only from Asoka.
Alex : danger - WHEOOH !! (but no OB with Lisa or GW, can't reach us).

Civics
Slavery seems to be a safer option now (I would revolt asap)

building
1. I would not finish the archer (10h needed), we have enough, just let it ready to be completed if turns too hot (if more than 4lgbow could attack the same turn for ex).
2. On the urgent things, we could has writing previously whip a temple, and soon a granary and lighhouse for faster regrowing at peace.
We should also build WBx2 to connected the new fish+clam for trading material (possibly getting us happy lux).
I would suggested whipping temple (after 1t), put overflow into WB, finish it, whip lighthouse (after 1t), overflow to another WB then granary. Of course add military if necessary.

Homer the silly GA
Drama is 429 research, ven at monopoly it is probably not the wisest idea.
Settling would accelerate our cultural battle and solve our financal problem thks to the 3gpt.
But what about Culture Bombing Homer We just lose the 3gpt but gain most of the culture immediatly (NY and Malabar have only 500 culture, so he would be a major impact - if someone rememeber how to calculate and optimise culture bomb). We will get very lickely our furs back, + cow + 2cottages, so GW will be hard pressurised and losing a lots (of course he will pillage everything, but that we disctract him)
edit : as a super bonus, we will bethe 1st team on the cultural graph for a very long while and will make everyone realise how lucky we are

Trade
Nothing after I would seriously consider (except selling Alpha to Lisa possibly)
- Lisa is not even accepting Alpha+103g for Mono, so she is closed to discover it, I suggest selling alpha for her 90g.
- Capac : WFYABTA already
- Fred : could get Mono+Calendar+gold for Lite+CoL or Calender+50g for Currency+Lite
- Caesar : could trade Mono+Calender+gold for Lite+CoL
- Khan : could trade Mono+Calender(+no gold) for Lite+CoL
- Isa : could get Mono+20g for Math
- Alex : could trade Calendar+Horse+40g for CoL+Alpha+Currency
- Toku : nothing to declare

Jabah

 

[Kodii]

HOLY <capitalized expletive here>!

I have officially lost faith in the SGOTM RNG

Homer the silly GA
Drama is 429 research, ven at monopoly it is probably not the wisest idea.
Settling would accelerate our cultural battle and solve our financal problem thks to the 3gpt.
But what about Culture Bombing Homer We just lose the 3gpt but gain most of the culture immediatly (NY and Malabar have only 500 culture, so he would be a major impact - if someone rememeber how to calculate and optimise culture bomb). We will get very lickely our furs back, + cow + 2cottages, so GW will be hard pressurised and losing a lots (of course he will pillage everything, but that we disctract him)
edit : as a super bonus, we will bethe 1st team on the cultural graph for a very long while and will make everyone realise how lucky we are

I'm tempted to bomb as well, but I think we're better off settling.

The other plans sound good... let's switch to survival mode!

 

[Swiss Pauli]

The other option with Homer is to research Drama and bulb Music. Probably only worthwhile if we can grab the Music Artist, but I have the feeling Asoka or Liz (or someone overseas) might beat us to the punch. I don't see the value of the bomb, but 3gpt will be useful for the rest of the game.

Keep an eye out for the backward Civs learning Monarchy; aside from shooting Liz Alpha for cash, I don't see the need to trade any other techs in atm.

 

[Jabah]

Yes, settle GA is probably the only real option even if not very creative. (it will solve our finance for a while even if we decide to build a few extra units)

Compromise, any idea when you could play (or are we waiting for more options), so we could try to be several more or less online at that time if you ever want to have a quick pause for input if something special arise?.

Also, if nothing special happens, do we stop at CS (14t) ?

 

[Compromise]

...Compromise, any idea when you could play (or are we waiting for more options), so we could try to be several more or less online at that time if you ever want to have a quick pause for input if something special arise?.

Also, if nothing special happens, do we stop at CS (14t) ?

I have a rather short playtime window this round. I'll either be playing in the next hour or so, or I'll need a skip this round. I should be able to post one way or the other within about two hours....

 

[Compromise]

Ack. I can't play this round and need a skip.

I did get a chance to review the advice offered so far, and I can pass this summary to...<checks reference post>...Jabah:

Repeated: Slave, temple, lighthouse, granary. Settle Homer (Rename Malabar to Springfield ). Keep eyes peeled for peace opportunity. Keep scientists hired. Caste+HR civic change. (from various posts)

Added: Keep an eye out for the backward Civs learning Monarchy; aside from shooting Liz Alpha for cash, I don't see the need to trade any other techs in atm. (from Swiss Pauli)

Also, see Jabah's detailed post. (Oh wait, I don't need to remind Jabah about that.)

 

[ruff_hi]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the fact that Homer turned up indicate that the GA from music is still available ... homer is the first on the list right? If so, what is the burn on Drama? If it is small (2 or so turns), what about teching drama, bulbing music with Homer, settling that GA and then trading music. This way, we would be in the same situation (settled artist) but with 2 techs (one monopoly) to trade. The risk is that someone beats us to music while we tech drama but then we just settle Homer and we've only wasted a few turns of tech on drama (which unlocks Globe so might not be a complete waste).

Edit: looked at the save, drama will take 7 turns ... a bit of a risk in losing the race to music and delaying CS for 7 turns. Probably not worth it. Checked the bulb order, Lit is #1, Drama is #2, Music is #3 ... so he would be up to bulb music if we did research drama.

 

[Jabah]

We could check, but Drama is not that cheap (around 400 lb iirc), so we probably need around 10t to research it.

I could play probably tonight (in 9h). but need a 'limit' if nothing turns wrong.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Completion of CS seems like a good natural stopping point, as would peace with GW, or if GW gets Construction, as all three would make us want to re-examine our position.

Enjoy.....and may the RNGod be kind!

 

[Jabah]

Drama is 429lb, we could have it in 6t at max research (but we can't maintain size7), except that Asoka has already Music (Thepis born last turn in Dehli means he had it last turn).

So playing in 1h, with slavery, temple, settling Homer etc... and stopping whenever the situation asks for it or at any of the points SP listed.

 

[sooooo]

A temple is wasted hammers IMO when we are just about to trade for monarchy. Can we hold off revolting to slavery until we can go to HR too?

 

[Jabah]

Unfortunatly, we have no idea how long it would take to get an AI willing to trade Monarchy.
I would rather revolt to Slavery now and hope to revolt again later but only once for HR+Bureaucracy. (According to Chmoosi, changing 3civics should take 2t of revolt, so we are not loosing anything. I will just check if I have a chance).

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Two civic change for one turn of anarchy would be ideal, but our situation is far from ideal (no monarchy trade possible, about to lose happy resources) so I think we need slavery and a temple.

 

[Jabah]

T89 - 650BC
Settle Homer.
Sell Alphabet for 90g to Lisa
(We don't even get '+' for fair trade)

Change prod to temple and revolt to slavery

T90 - 625BC
GW would not talk.
The worker start road (and later farming on the plain opposite GW).
We have 2 unhappy from losing incense+silver.

T91 - 600BC
GW would not talk.
In the not brightest move, I whip temple for 3 pop (otherwise we would lose pop as soon as Washington walk on our sheep)
and then realise that Lisa and Khan now have Monarchy ready to trade. (even if we trade for it, it would not have been enough to stop the pop lose, but I should have checked before whipping)
Khan wants CoL+70g for Monarchy
Lisa says we don't have enough for that.

Pb : Khan is very unpopular.
I would trade it anyway, but need other team members opinions.

Saved uploaded

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_BC0600_01.Civ4SavedGame

Jabah