SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Conquest/Domination
I just wanted to mention that my suggestions for this don't affect our game plan for a while yet and we can play exactly as though we are acheiving spaceship. And I'd only say go for it under the right circumstances and we are confident.
I've just tried some new test games and the results are varying (everything was going perfectly until a +4 Bismarck attacked us!).
I just wanted to mention that my suggestions for this don't affect our game plan for a while yet and we can play exactly as though we are acheiving spaceship. And I'd only say go for it under the right circumstances and we are confident.
I've just tried some new test games and the results are varying (everything was going perfectly until a +4 Bismarck attacked us!).
marconos
Prince
Any updates on this?
Yamps
Deity
Let's try to avoid confusion. 
One of the last things I did as a captain was to ask Melior to play the next round. He only played 2 turns and claimed immortal skills on the signup thread so he seemed like a good player for war preparation. This is what he had wrote before all discussions:
Well, it is your responsibility now Vra to clean up the mess.
One of the last things I did as a captain was to ask Melior to play the next round. He only played 2 turns and claimed immortal skills on the signup thread so he seemed like a good player for war preparation. This is what he had wrote before all discussions:Well, it is your responsibility now Vra to clean up the mess.
*gets out dustpan*
*sighs*
Alright. In that case we'll stick with that Yamps and have Shikhee play after. These should be two fairly quick turnsets. I'm going to ask Melior to play 10 turns and Shikhee to do the same after we have examined our new postion.
*sighs*
Alright. In that case we'll stick with that Yamps and have Shikhee play after. These should be two fairly quick turnsets. I'm going to ask Melior to play 10 turns and Shikhee to do the same after we have examined our new postion.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
Alright team, I'll report back before the weekend's out. I will also keep an eye out to see if I can't bribe Washington into closing his borders with Alex, if Alex declares war, but that's probably a longshot.
Yamps
Deity
I have some questions:
Are we researching archery ourselves and building archers?
What forests do you intend to pre-chop?
Are we researching archery ourselves and building archers?
What forests do you intend to pre-chop?
marconos
Prince
IMO, we should trade for it and not waste our research turns on it.
Melior: I don't think the Iron has been worked yet either (better before pre-chopping?)
I think the general consesus was to tech Archery + Priesthood because they only take 1-2 turns each... In some test games I had to trade really hard to get much of the branches were didn't have (especially to get to machinery for mace's, and optics to go exploring) not sure how much of an effect trading for more needless techs earlier had on that.
Also found Elizabeth in my test games was heading straight for Liberalism and if I got distracted (by war or other techs) she usually beat me to it. Which I suppose makes a stronger argument for trading
I think the general consesus was to tech Archery + Priesthood because they only take 1-2 turns each... In some test games I had to trade really hard to get much of the branches were didn't have (especially to get to machinery for mace's, and optics to go exploring) not sure how much of an effect trading for more needless techs earlier had on that.
Also found Elizabeth in my test games was heading straight for Liberalism and if I got distracted (by war or other techs) she usually beat me to it. Which I suppose makes a stronger argument for trading
Yamps
Deity
@Tech trading
Too much risk for small benefits if we trade for Archery and Priesthood, IMO. We can expect that some civs will stop trading very soon, after a few more trades. We are vulnerable at this point, we don't know all the civs and Alex might attack us. We might need every trading partner out there. I would rather have that someone stops trading with us after we get Monarchy and Feudalism than after Archery and Priesthood. Besides, we do have an Academy, we can afford to research Archery and Pristhood on our own.
Archers as future Longbows, that's the idea.
@Iron
I think that pre-chopping and sheep are more important. We don't need the iron now because we have copper and I don't think we should trade iron for only incense from Asoka. That could give negative points with Alex.
Too much risk for small benefits if we trade for Archery and Priesthood, IMO. We can expect that some civs will stop trading very soon, after a few more trades. We are vulnerable at this point, we don't know all the civs and Alex might attack us. We might need every trading partner out there. I would rather have that someone stops trading with us after we get Monarchy and Feudalism than after Archery and Priesthood. Besides, we do have an Academy, we can afford to research Archery and Pristhood on our own.
Archers as future Longbows, that's the idea.
@Iron
I think that pre-chopping and sheep are more important. We don't need the iron now because we have copper and I don't think we should trade iron for only incense from Asoka. That could give negative points with Alex.
marconos
Prince
I believe that we are being way to worried about trading for a couple of techs. Losing 3 - 4 turns to research techs that we can easily trade for seems to be a bad idea IMO. I would rather get Archery, get and archer out ASAP and research on our main path.
I believe that we are being way to worried about trading for a couple of techs. Losing 3 -4 turns to research techs that we can easily trade for seems to be a bad idea IMO. I would rather get Archery, get and archer out ASAP and research on our main path.
Agreed. Espcially as we are about to choose a religion, that's 3 turns we can be doing something else.
Agreed. Espcially as we are about to choose a religion, that's 3 turns we can be doing something else.
As for whether to tech arch/priesthood or trade, I abstain.
But if I had to choose, I'd trade since I never see WFYABTA unless I am ahead of that civ in tech. But if it was my game alone, I'd probably decide it doesn't matter so much and just randomly pick one.
But if I had to choose, I'd trade since I never see WFYABTA unless I am ahead of that civ in tech. But if it was my game alone, I'd probably decide it doesn't matter so much and just randomly pick one.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
Okay, here we go.
Turn 75 (inherited): Move Worker to finish Sheep Pasture. Hit <enter>.
Turn 76: Alex declares war on Isabella!
Immediately assign two Scientists to bag Drama in two turns. I decide to finish the Axe so we can use the Warrior to map out the land.
Turn 77: Nothing happens.
Turn 78: Asoka offers his Incense for our Silver. I'm not sure this does anything for our cap in vanilla, so I accept to see. Turns out it does. Drama done, start on Priesthood to get to CoL.
Turn 79: Priesthood done, start on CoL. Axe is done, send Warrior to explore. Start Theatre. City grows to 7 pop.
Turn 80: Prechop the hill west of the city.
Turn 81: Isabella asks us to declare war on Alex. As we have no army to speak of, I refuse. She drops to Cautious.
Turn 82: Alex asks for Poly. Not wanting to antagonize Isabella any more, I refuse. A possible -4 trading with worst enemy won't be easy to expunge. HG BIFAL. The Chinese Cartography Corps meets this guy:
He looks to be both Washington & Liz's worst enemy, so no OB for him. Immediately afterward, meet another guy:
JC is teching on par with Asoka.
Turn 83: JC isn't anyone's worst enemy, so OB with him. Freddo is JC's worst enemy, BTW.
Turn 84: Some more exploring, prechopping. Asoka has a stack of metal units in Bombay, Washington has only Archers.
Turn 85: CoL done. City grows to size 8. Screenies:
Our fair city:
Diplomatic overview:
Religious blocs:
Diplomatic modifiers:
Tech screen:
Area mapped by Cartography Corps:
We caught a break with Alex fighting Isabella so quickly, freeing us up to get the Globe built quickly.
We have an apparent CoL monopoly to play with, unless someone we haven't met founded Confucianism first on our continent. This seems unlikely, as we have met 9 rivals already. There are trade possibilities, but neither Washington nor Asoka are willing to trade Monarchy.
Well, that's all folks.
Turn 75 (inherited): Move Worker to finish Sheep Pasture. Hit <enter>.
Turn 76: Alex declares war on Isabella!
Immediately assign two Scientists to bag Drama in two turns. I decide to finish the Axe so we can use the Warrior to map out the land.Turn 77: Nothing happens.
Turn 78: Asoka offers his Incense for our Silver. I'm not sure this does anything for our
cap in vanilla, so I accept to see. Turns out it does. Drama done, start on Priesthood to get to CoL.Turn 79: Priesthood done, start on CoL. Axe is done, send Warrior to explore. Start Theatre. City grows to 7 pop.
Turn 80: Prechop the hill west of the city.
Turn 81: Isabella asks us to declare war on Alex. As we have no army to speak of, I refuse. She drops to Cautious.
Turn 82: Alex asks for Poly. Not wanting to antagonize Isabella any more, I refuse. A possible -4 trading with worst enemy won't be easy to expunge. HG BIFAL. The Chinese Cartography Corps meets this guy:
He looks to be both Washington & Liz's worst enemy, so no OB for him. Immediately afterward, meet another guy:
JC is teching on par with Asoka.
Turn 83: JC isn't anyone's worst enemy, so OB with him. Freddo is JC's worst enemy, BTW.
Turn 84: Some more exploring, prechopping. Asoka has a stack of metal units in Bombay, Washington has only Archers.
Turn 85: CoL done. City grows to size 8. Screenies:
Our fair city:
Diplomatic overview:
Religious blocs:
Diplomatic modifiers:
Tech screen:
Area mapped by Cartography Corps:
We caught a break with Alex fighting Isabella so quickly, freeing us up to get the Globe built quickly.
We have an apparent CoL monopoly to play with, unless someone we haven't met founded Confucianism first on our continent. This seems unlikely, as we have met 9 rivals already. There are trade possibilities, but neither Washington nor Asoka are willing to trade Monarchy.
Well, that's all folks.
ok - I believe I'm up next, and if our course is plain I don't think theres much to do...
* 10 turns from Globe Theatre - although I am a bit nervous about just having 1 Axe and 1 War, but I am also a bit nervous about Liz's + Washi's impinging Culture.
* 12 turns for Civil Service - this has been our goal, might be able to shorten it with scientists
* about 5 turns from another Great Person, regardless of the type he should settle unless anyone wants to enjoy some Golden Ages (I rarely go for these, are they worthwhile? I'm sure certainly not this early).
Current options:
a)I'm tempted to maximise growth (slow down Globe) so we can get to our current happy limit - go back to using 2 scientists for GP and getting Civil Service + Beurocracy sooner.
b) But I don't want to delay the Globe because I think we should get back onto some military production ASAP. But maximise Globe will delay Civil Service + city growth.
Suggestions ? Will map out turns in the next day, I'm trying to get a test game to similar standards but it is getting really tricky now.
* 10 turns from Globe Theatre - although I am a bit nervous about just having 1 Axe and 1 War, but I am also a bit nervous about Liz's + Washi's impinging Culture.
* 12 turns for Civil Service - this has been our goal, might be able to shorten it with scientists
* about 5 turns from another Great Person, regardless of the type he should settle unless anyone wants to enjoy some Golden Ages (I rarely go for these, are they worthwhile? I'm sure certainly not this early).
Current options:
a)I'm tempted to maximise growth (slow down Globe) so we can get to our current happy limit - go back to using 2 scientists for GP and getting Civil Service + Beurocracy sooner.
b) But I don't want to delay the Globe because I think we should get back onto some military production ASAP. But maximise Globe will delay Civil Service + city growth.
Suggestions ? Will map out turns in the next day, I'm trying to get a test game to similar standards but it is getting really tricky now.
marconos
Prince
Umm did I miss something? We were going to build some military ASAP. If we don't get something else in our capital we are going to get attacked and wiped out. 1 Axeman isn't going to cut.
Please no more researching of techs that we can already trade for. We are so far behind tech wise that nobody is going to think we are too advanced.
My thoughts for the next set.
Immediately trade for Archery and see what we can get for COL. Let's discuss that before the move goes and make some more tech trades.
Build 2 - 3 archers and get them place into our city.
Continue exploring to find anyone else.
Alex/Liz War
We really need to set our sites on our PA partner. Everyone is cautions with us and the only person that wasn't we now have a -1 with them with not helping them during the war. (not that I think we could really have done much). So who are we targeting and let's start working towards them ASAP.
Globe Theatre
We are not at our happiness cap yet. Can't we wait on this for a bit and built things that are more critical, military etc. When we get to our happiness cap we can just higher more specialist while we build it. Again I'm coming back to military, right now we are just begging to get attacked.
We have our long range research plan, we just don't have a long range military or PA strat. We need to set those to make sure that we stay focused on getting a solid victory.
Please no more researching of techs that we can already trade for. We are so far behind tech wise that nobody is going to think we are too advanced.
My thoughts for the next set.
Immediately trade for Archery and see what we can get for COL. Let's discuss that before the move goes and make some more tech trades.
Build 2 - 3 archers and get them place into our city.
Continue exploring to find anyone else.
Alex/Liz War
We really need to set our sites on our PA partner. Everyone is cautions with us and the only person that wasn't we now have a -1 with them with not helping them during the war. (not that I think we could really have done much). So who are we targeting and let's start working towards them ASAP.
Globe Theatre
We are not at our happiness cap yet. Can't we wait on this for a bit and built things that are more critical, military etc. When we get to our happiness cap we can just higher more specialist while we build it. Again I'm coming back to military, right now we are just begging to get attacked.
We have our long range research plan, we just don't have a long range military or PA strat. We need to set those to make sure that we stay focused on getting a solid victory.
Yeah, Globe is premature, we should build things we need and can use now before we build things that will be good in future. If we had a bit more military maybe we'd be more confident joining wars (not fighting, just joining) to please our friends. I think that is really key since more wars are inevitable with so many civs around and so little room. I also think WFYABTA won't be a factor since nobody can fear that WE are too advanced, so archery is OK by me if you guys want the trade. How does the power-graph look? Who is the most advanced we know? These are what I would look for in deciding who to PA with. That said, Izzy is usually the one you can get earliest if she is friendly, but we maybe set that back some turns (due to fear from no military?).
In long run, maybe even in short run, we can't keep both sides of a conflict happy. We will have to choose a side. Which side I will leave to greater minds than mine.
A note on WFYABTA:
I'm fairly sure this comes as a consequence of the number of trades you make, not the tech board postiton.
As for other comments:
We need to go around and see if anyone will simply feel sorry for us Unusual Suspects and GIVE us Archery/Priesthood. We should be able to gert arch this way at least.
MILITARY! We need troops. Please. Anything. The Globe can wait till we get a few troops in.
Culture wise, if we really are worried about cultural problems, we might consider pulling in the Sistine Chapel. But, I don't think it will be a problem.
I'm fairly sure this comes as a consequence of the number of trades you make, not the tech board postiton.
As for other comments:
We need to go around and see if anyone will simply feel sorry for us Unusual Suspects and GIVE us Archery/Priesthood. We should be able to gert arch this way at least.
MILITARY! We need troops. Please. Anything. The Globe can wait till we get a few troops in.
Culture wise, if we really are worried about cultural problems, we might consider pulling in the Sistine Chapel. But, I don't think it will be a problem.
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