SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects

[marconos]

I generally don't like to post my detailed thoughts after every turn set. I want to see what the person who is up is going to do and then post my thoughts in response to that. That way the person who is up is really coming up with their own thoughts and the team is giving them input on how we think it should be adjusted etc.

 

[Yamps]

Wining

Plans are the same, some conquering and then Domination or Space.

Diplomacy

Ain't easy to be a diplomat in this game. Ok, here are some thoughts:

Cathy - Saladin

They are a constant threat to us. WHEOOHRN we have to check regularly, as usual. Luckily, they won't be able to sign a mutual PA! They are barely Pleased, they do need Friendly.

Cyrus

Our important ally. It has to be noted that relations to JC matter now. He is Pleased at both of us, he signs DP at Pleased so we should be able to get him back after wars. For example, note that we can't sign a DP with Washington atm. He signs at Friendly, we are Friendly, but he is only Pleased at JC.

If we want Cyrus to attack someone, he needs to be Friendly at us but he also has to be Annoyed at the third party. He is Cautious at Cathy and Pleased at Saladin. Look at the "Leader trades summary" file, I posted the link before. Those are necessary conditions, he could decline for other reasons, "Nothing to gain" for example. According to the file, Cyrus is willing to stop trading with Cathy, only Cautious is enough, but we need Friendly.

Missionaries could bring him to Friendly. However, that takes time, effort and hammers. He could also convert to Free religion and then we've done nothing. He still doesn't have Liberalism, btw. Relations with JC are only at +4, it would take a lot of time to get Cyrus to Friendly with JC.

We have another important problem regarding Cyrus, Izzy is trying to convert him! When I started playing, he only had one Buddhist city. Chance? I've checked my save-games, around turn 180 second city got the religion. Izzy has 2 missionaries now in Madrid and 2 caravels standing by for the last two Persian cities. She will need ~10 turns to reach him. Luckily, she doesn't have techs to bribe him, but he is Pleased at her, she could ask and he might say yes! Adopting Buddhism won't change relations towards us immediately, we have different religion anyway. However, Cyrus is annoyed at Toku and Alex atm. We will get -1 with Cyrus for war with Izzy, we don't want him Pleased at Toku and Alex and more negative points! Of course, Monty and Louis won't like Cyrus so much if he changes religion, that would leave Cathy with free hands... There is a completely different danger too, if we do bring Cyrus to Judaism, he could start signing DPs with the civs on our continent. Difficult situation.

Therefore, I suggest we just keep producing military units. We can't beat Izzy with our missionaries anyway, let's just eliminate her ASAP!

Louis - Mansa war

There were some suggestions to help Louis, but that's tricky too. Louis is only Cautious at us and Annoyed at JC. We need Pleased with him to get him to war. Louis could attack someone he is Pleased at if we ask! Sadly, giving techs to him won't bring more bonuses, we need the same religion. However, we won't be able to ask him to convert! We would have to relay on Kublai or Capac, he is Pleased at them. Besides, Asoka and Liz are annoyed at Louis and Asoka is only Cautious towards us. Because of that, I avoided OB with Louis. However, we have OB with him although you won't see OB on the "active trades" screen! We inherited OB from JC.

Helping Louis could just create another problematic civ, but we should keep the doors open. We are busy with military production now, missionaries should wait. I'm against helping Mansa, in that case we can forget about Louis. However, we should decline a possible war invitation from Louis, Mansa has friends, you know. Asoka, Liz, Cyrus and Cath are pleased at him.

I think we should stay out of that conflict for now. We can't cancel OB with Louis (JC signed them!), we might as well do some resource trading with him. Asoka and Liz could mind that now but we can't stop trading, JC won't let us. We should send missionaries to Louis later, not now. Louis doesn't need so much help against Mansa anyway, he is winning the war.

There is a final option to consider, we could stop the war if we pay Louis some techs. Would that be of some use for us? What do you think? Cathy could dog-pile on Mansa, that's the danger. If she takes his cities, our troubles are increasing! She is Pleased at Louis and Mansa, it is very probable that she'll dog-pile on Mansa if he gets to weak.

Actually, I'm not sure here what to do. Opinions?


Izzy, Toku, Alex

Izzy is the first to go! Toku next! Probably Alex after that.

Backups

Washington is Friendly at us, almost Friendly with JC. That's a potential temporary DP, just before Cathy attacks, for example. . Fred is almost Friendly with JC and us, Capac is already Friendly with JC and he will get Friendly with us too. They are for backup DP too. Or should I say bodyguards to take the Cathy-Saladin bullets

Monty

We could trade with him, he has some gold. However, Liz doesn't like him, he is our enemy and there are other people to trade with.

Asoka&Liz

Let's keep Asoka at least Cautious at us for now, we don't want trouble from him while we are busy elsewhere. Same politics towards Liz, let's keep her Pleased for now. That could be for the rest of the game, if we go for Space.

Kublai-Capac

We should consider braking the pact, we could bribe Kublai to war wit with Izzy. However, we are planning for a short war, he could sign the pact again. Maybe we should attack both of them later or bribe them to attack someone else if possible and if not too expensive. This is not clear yet, at least not to me.

More to come...

 

[Yamps]

I generally don't like to post my detailed thoughts after every turn set. I want to see what the person who is up is going to do and then post my thoughts in response to that. That way the person who is up is really coming up with their own thoughts and the team is giving them input on how we think it should be adjusted etc.

Yes, that's the preferred way! Every player should first think for himself and active player should post first.

Classical and Melior didn't check in, Kcd_Swede became an active player and did post some plans. We do have a deadline, one month left. Let's try to keep the schedule, 2 turn-sets a weak. I posted my opinions to hurry things up, although that's not the preferred way of operations.

Ok, let's try to make some plans. Kcd_Swede posted more questions that have to be answered, I believe we should say our opinions now.

 

[kcd_swede]

OK, I'm taking Yamps at face value. I will prepare to do the next turnset. I can do them any time between now and Sunday nite. I won't go until you guys think I am ready.

Here is what I would do over the next 10 turns or so:
General plan: quick takeover of Madrid.

I want a stack of 16 units to attack. I think Madrid falls with fewer, but want to leave option for quick Toku destruction if things go as planned. Say if overkill... count on help from JC we could start marching now instead. Attack stack will consist of 9 Cannon, 3 Gren, 2 Rifle. Will build accordingly, only units in queue. I will not leave Beijing with less than 4 units, and it will continue building units for defense all the while.

We attack from NW, and JC attack from SW or SE. Five turns to approach, can declare and be next to Madrid on turn 6. JC has many units, (11 good units in Rome, 8 in Antium) but I am wondering how reliable they will be -- also he needs home defense too. We could benefit by smaller own stack and let JC do some of the heavy lifting, but I am proposing more conservative plan. Just say if you see problems.

Tech: JC is making 382 bpt. We are making 585 bpt. Physics we have in 1 turn, then with JC on Med, we have Med in 7 more turns. Logically, I would want steam next... but I think we should trade for Demo (to help JC) and research Elec which is better trade value. This assumes we will plan to keep trading. If we are planning to be misers (I think this is not a good idea... we will still get out-teched by ai if we don't make favorable trades) then Steam first giving option to Ass Line or Rail/Comb whatever looks best. But if you say nothing I go for Elec first. We want windmill and watermill to be really good.

Diplo: I think Mansa is a nice guy... but nice guys finish last. Louis is a creep... but we should make him OUR creep. He will destroy Mansa anyhow, and border Cathy. I do not think we need give Louis any mil tech (rifle, mil trad, steel). I think liberalism is about right... maybe he goes FR and leaves the Hindu block. Maybe I just like giving away that tech? Also, he will defeat Mansa w/o any unit upgrades. A risk option... if you are bold (I wouldn't do this on my own, but put it out there for thought stimulation), when we DOW Spain, we DOW Mansa as well (assuming that war is still going on 6 turns from now... not at all a sure thing). Louis will love us after that. Must think whether others hate us, though. I am risking that Louis will win quick and Mansa will be no more, thus all wars over and diplo restoration begins. But my plan is not to take this risk, just be friends with Louis and let Mansa die.

Improvements: Finish watermill. Consider windmill replace mine on plains hill-but on my own I out that after.... Make lumbermills on forest tiles that have no improvements. Correct previous misview: we have 6 forest, so no more chopping.

"Lets discuss something else" (thx Yamps): When we DOW, JC can reach Madrid walls same time we do from Antium, +1 turn from Rome. This is good, we no kill Madrid in 1 turn. 2 or 3 max, tho. Want to weaken walls and soften them up for JC, preserve&promote his units too.

Promos: OK... optimist thinking. But I would say a healer Gren is a priority, and city raider/combat promos for the rest, though most promos can wait until next war we see what will fit best.

Did I leave anything out, or do you guys understand my aims and agree with them and my plan for carrying them out? In my estimation, we have 6 turns building units (cannon, rifle, rifle) and the we march 5 turns, and then we DOW +1 turn. Bombard 1 turn (9 cannons makes quick work, I agree), then attack bext turn (cannons first for collateral). Lv one weak unit for JC to eliminate. 15 turns we have Madrid, and pass on turnset to next player.

Criticisms welcome.

Edit to add: I see that you guys were posting while I was devising my plan. I hadn't thought about the HC/Capac thing. I would vote for bribing one to go to war against Izzy at the moment we expect JC to eliminate her. Nip that DP in the bud.

 

[Yamps]

I want a stack of 16 units to attack. I think Madrid falls with fewer, but want to leave option for quick Toku destruction if things go as planned. Say if overkill... count on help from JC we could start marching now instead. Attack stack will consist of 9 Cannon, 3 Gren, 2 Rifle. Will build accordingly, only units in queue. I will not leave Beijing with less than 4 units, and it will continue building units for defense all the while.

We attack from NW, and JC attack from SW or SE. Five turns to approach, can declare and be next to Madrid on turn 6. JC has many units, (11 good units in Rome, 8 in Antium) but I am wondering how reliable they will be -- also he needs home defense too. We could benefit by smaller own stack and let JC do some of the heavy lifting, but I am proposing more conservative plan. Just say if you see problems.

9 Cannons, 3 Grens and 2 Rifles, that's 14 units. I don't think that we should rely on JC. Izzy has 13 units, we should bring 18 IMO. We have 8 Cannons, 3 Rifles and 4 Grens atm. Rifles have defensive promotions, they should stay at home. I think that one cannon and 2 grens should stay too. Of course, WHEOOHRN from Caty or Sal will change that. That's 7 cannons and 2 grens ready now. Let's build 6 more rifles, 2 cannons and a gren. At the current production rate, we'll need 15 turns for that, but Izzy and Toku are really backward, they won't go anywhere. JC should bring garrison troops, we should attack. We can continue directly on Toku with few reinforcements. We'll soon have infantry, too.

Btw, put the Kremlin in the queue. Don't ever put a hammer in it, that's just to prevent JC from building it. We don't need that, let's use hammers for units. Another note, remember that it is possible to control the wonders JC build. If he completes the research on a requiring tech first, we can start the wonder, not him! We can put the wonder to a queue and never build it or finish it. Yes, it sounds crazy. I've only read about it, haven't tried it (yet) myself.

Tech: JC is making 382 bpt. We are making 585 bpt. Physics we have in 1 turn, then with JC on Med, we have Med in 7 more turns. Logically, I would want steam next... but I think we should trade for Demo (to help JC) and research Elec which is better trade value. This assumes we will plan to keep trading. If we are planning to be misers (I think this is not a good idea... we will still get out-teched by ai if we don't make favorable trades) then Steam first giving option to Ass Line or Rail/Comb whatever looks best. But if you say nothing I go for Elec first. We want windmill and watermill to be really good.

It is difficult to assess things. JC has deity bonuses, I think we can effectively double his beaker output. There are some modifiers to the techs cost I think, everything is 1.5x more expensive if I remember right. I'm not really sure about that.

Ask JC to start researching Medicine. You will see that he'll finish that in one turn! Ask him to finish anything else, you'll see the same! He doesn't have that many This could mean that the from Physics gets converted to Medicine for him. Strange. This makes planning rather difficult.

Anyway, ask him to research Medicine first. Electricity can wait, watermill can wait. I don't think we should build windmills at all, we need every hammer we can get now. Steam power next for the Assembly line. We will give some resources to JC to prevent unhappiness. I don't think that we'll get good trades for Democracy, let's research that manually. We don't need that right away, we'll see. Nobody should be able to out-tech us and JC! If we really do get Medicine in one turn, we should convert to Environmentalism and Theocracy right away. Pacifistic ways are over, we won't be able to sustain it much longer. We'll need money for upgrades. We could take money from JC, but that would slow him down. That's deity AI, we have to make him use his bonuses. Check to see how many turns are needed for Physics after Medicine, this is really strange, everything in one turn! If JC converts to Environmentalism too, we'll need Democracy sooner, look at his caps. He has health problems, Env. would solve that.

@Diplo

I posted what I think. Don't go to war against Mansa, that would cause diplomatic problems. Use the Caravel to spy Cathy- Mansa border. We don't want her joining against Mansa. Don't give Liberalism to Louis. Converting to Free religion would be wrong for us. Cathy is Confucian, we don't want a Monty(Hindu) - Louis war for example. We want somebody to attack Cathy really hard! I'm also considering giving techs to Louis to stop the war, but it is probably best to let them fight.

Paying Kublai sth to attack Izzy is a good idea, but a bit risky. We are planing to leave only one defender in the city, we don't want Kublai to take the city! War should be over very fast, Kublai could sign the pact again. Are we really gaining anything? Let's try to find another option, he should be busy for some time.

Improvements: Finish watermill. Consider windmill replace mine on plains hill-but on my own I out that after.... Make lumbermills on forest tiles that have no improvements. Correct previous misview: we have 6 forest, so no more chopping.

Watermill can wait for Electricity, that's not urgent. Lumbermills are needed now, hill tile first.

"Lets discuss something else" (thx Yamps): When we DOW, JC can reach Madrid walls same time we do from Antium, +1 turn from Rome. This is good, we no kill Madrid in 1 turn. 2 or 3 max, tho. Want to weaken walls and soften them up for JC, preserve&promote his units too.

Make sure you reach the city before JC does, at least try that. He would just lose a lot of units. I've seen Izzy lose many infantries to rifles in a test game.

Promos: OK... optimist thinking. But I would say a healer Gren is a priority, and city raider/combat promos for the rest, though most promos can wait until next war we see what will fit best.

Don't promote just yet. We'll need the Medic promotion, CR probably for Cannons, combat+CR for rifles and grens. Maybe a rifle and a gren with more defensive promotions. Collateral vs CR? Cr should be better here, what do you think? Let's make some beta testings with WB.

To summarize, I think we need more units for the attack. 14 against 13 and relying on JC is not the right way, IMO. We have some time for more units, Izzy and Toku are really weak.

Resources

Get Gold from JC, he has two. Cancel the Stone to Clam deal, we gained that Calm. Fur for 2 gold with JC we should keep, JC needs the Fur. Keep the deals with Cyrus and Saladin, re-negotiating could be risky. Remember Melior's experience, gold dropped to zero. Cancel the Whales deal with Capac, give Whales to JC. You can sell the Gold to Capac, it would be good to get Capac to Friendly. Resource trading bonuses do accumulate with time. Sell the Stone to Louis for some cash.

 

[kcd_swede]

OK, more units, an dmake sure JC doesn't enter before its ripe. BTW: I don't think its a bad thing if my turnset ends before we do anything drastic like war. If we say 15 turns of building and 5 turns of marching, that sets up the next player. Your other ideas ok by me. I am baffled by the tech of a deity ai, but I take your say-so and re-direct JC's research. Of course we watch WHEOORHN, and pause for advice if something strategically important happens. No unauthorized trading, no matter what the wife wants. (Don't worry, she is out of town on business this week.)

 

[Yamps]

OK, more units, an dmake sure JC doesn't enter before its ripe. BTW: I don't think its a bad thing if my turnset ends before we do anything drastic like war. If we say 15 turns of building and 5 turns of marching, that sets up the next player. Your other ideas ok by me. I am baffled by the tech of a deity ai, but I take your say-so and re-direct JC's research. Of course we watch WHEOORHN, and pause for advice if something strategically important happens. No unauthorized trading, no matter what the wife wants. (Don't worry, she is out of town on business this week.)

Well, try it yourself, I don't understand how we are getting everything in one turn. We'll know better when we research sth. Post the trading times then, it's hard to plan things now. I've done some testings before, it looks like deity AI only needs ~55% of our beakers to complete the techs. I've also read about team cost modifiers, techs are more expensive when teamed up. It probably works the same with PA, more info on that would be helpful.

You can play now, right? I feel we should wait till tomorrow. Maybe we get more input from the rest of the team. Let's check everything, it's easy to miss sth.

~15 turns is a reasonable time frame for play. Maybe even few turns more, let's stay flexible. Post sooner if necessary, of course.


Btw, are you watching Germany-Turkey ? 1:1 currently.

 

[marconos]

Let's go with just keeping 4 units at home for the time being. IMO 4 rifles is fine, upgrade the units we have and go from there. I would also put 2 units out (warrior + 1 other one) farther out to "scout" and watch what is coming. Our scout should be used to figure out who our next target is.

For attacking Izzy we don't need to have more units then them, we need to get this started being cautious isn't going to win it, it will just keep up from losing to conquest. Get the units there and take him out asap. Remember, the time that you spend building units is more time for them to build units. Our units are stronger and with good siege we will take down there stack immensely and you'll find that we destroy them quickly. Keeping building more units sending them right to the front. There should be a continuous stream of units going in after her. Remember, the computer is HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE at war, let's use that.

Attacking with fewer unit just equates to 2 turns to wipe out -vs- 1. That is much better then 10 more turns of building military. The sonner we get those lands added to JC the quicker we go up in power.

Stay out of war with Mansa / Louis we don't want any part of that.
I don't really care about anyone on our continent -- they will ALL be wiped out, none of them should be left alive. As for the penalty of attacking my friend. Don't worry about that. When they are wiped out those problems go away. So, does trading with worst enemy and all those things when you kill off the civ that gave those to you.

Research: Get medicine fast so we can grow our city. I would try to keep pacifism until we get 1 - 2 more great people. The increase to our city from them is immense and we are going to need that extra boost as we go.

Windmills are generally useless. The only type of city they are good for is a money city, we are now going a production city and our money/research comes from out great people not tiles. Lumbermills are top priority. Just make sure to do ones closest to us 1st so it's easier to defend them.

 

[Melior Traiano]

I haven't got the free time to examine the situation carefully, but I do want to say a couple of things about the military situation: we need enough units to wear down Madrid's defenders so that Caesar can walk his troops into the city with minimal losses. If he loses a stack of troops because we didn't soften up the defenders enough and he then suicides his stack, that's definitely not optimal. So bring enough troops and avoid putting Caesar in a position where he might suicide his army onto strong defenders, meaning don't declare war and sit around while Caesar marches his stack to the city. And let's not be stingy about committing our troops to the fight. If anything, our own units are more the cannon fodder and Caesar's occupying forces are what must be kept intact. And for the love of god, make sure you don't capture (and autoraze) the city. I'd hate for anyone to accidentally autoraze because the would-be last 'defender' is a Worker.

 

[kcd_swede]

OK, if I understand everybody so far... MT and Yamps and I see building more units as prereq to war with Izzy, and Marconos would opt for a quicker DOW with leaner stack.


I think that as close to consensus as we will get, so I will plan for building rifle>rifle>rifle>cannon>rifle>gren>cannon (Kremlin always at end of queue). At this point I will start moving the stack which takes 5 turns of peaceful maneuvers, leaving 4 rifle 1gren and 1 cannon for defense. During those movement turns I continue building rifle>cannon>rifle>cannon etc, and send by twos towards the front as they come online.

Thus, ending my turnset in about 18 turns while still in peace with Izzy, but can DOW and be at her walls in same turn. Next player should get at least 1-2 turns attacking Madrid before JC can even be in position to attack. That should be enough.

The other stuff we have talked about - resource trades, lumbermills first, set JC on Medicine, tech Steam next then AssLine. Revolt to Enviromentalism asap to grow city, and same time to Theocr for unit bonus and avoid huge unit upkeep costs of pacifism during war. (We can go back to Pacifism later if anybody wants- but we revolting anyway and building for war so Theo is best at atm). Don't ask anyone (HC)to join our war, and don't join anyone else's. Loius and Mansa are on their own and get no assistance from us. Watch what Cathy is planning.
If JC is suffering from Emanc, then I consider research Democr after AssLine.

I expect some minor adjustments will be unavoidable along the way, but if anything important happens along the way I save and we discuss.

Unless someone is against it, I will start these turns at about 20:00 (GMT+2). If there is anything to add that hasn't been brought up, let me know. Or if you absolutely are against something in the plans posted to date... speak now or forever hold your pizza.

Troops summary:
Now: 8can/3rif/4gren
Home def: 1can/4rif/1gren
Build queue: 2can/4rif/1gren

Stack when it starts moving: 9can/3rif/4gren = 16units
Should have one rif which joins stack on turn after next player DOW's, and more rif/can on the way.

 

[Yamps]

For attacking Izzy we don't need to have more units then them, we need to get this started being cautious isn't going to win it, it will just keep up from losing to conquest. Get the units there and take him out asap. Remember, the time that you spend building units is more time for them to build units. Our units are stronger and with good siege we will take down there stack immensely and you'll find that we destroy them quickly. Keeping building more units sending them right to the front. There should be a continuous stream of units going in after her. Remember, the computer is HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE at war, let's use that.

Attacking with fewer unit just equates to 2 turns to wipe out -vs- 1. That is much better then 10 more turns of building military. The sonner we get those lands added to JC the quicker we go up in power.

I don't recommend such an approach. It is always better to take the city on the first attack if possible. We don't want surviving LB to upgrade. LB will have strength ~12 effectively. Besides, it is important to keep as many soldiers alive as possible to attack Toku fast. This approach would bring many unnecessary casualties and delay the attack on Toku and other civs. Izzy won't increase the garrison, I've been checking the garrison from time to time. One blow approach is better than continuous stream tactic.

Kcd_swede, please scout Izzy again with the caravel before we attack.

Stay out of war with Mansa / Louis we don't want any part of that.
I don't really care about anyone on our continent -- they will ALL be wiped out, none of them should be left alive. As for the penalty of attacking my friend. Don't worry about that. When they are wiped out those problems go away. So, does trading with worst enemy and all those things when you kill off the civ that gave those to you.

As usual, I will advocate care and caution. We will yet see what will happen with our continent, this is not clear at all now. AI isn't that horrible at war, look at the Cathy vs Hatty screen-shots. We are always underestimating the AI, but getting your cities trashed on Immortal or Deity with loads of units changes views.

Research: Get medicine fast so we can grow our city. I would try to keep pacifism until we get 1 - 2 more great people. The increase to our city from them is immense and we are going to need that extra boost as we go.

Health won't come on its own, we need Environmentalism. We could build a hospital, but that would delay military production. We are losing considerable amounts of money now because of Pacifism, we'll need that cash for upgrades.

@Kcd_Swede

Ok, we can re-evaluate the numbers before we declare war. Use the caravel to scout. Of course, WHEOOHRN from Cathy changes the caravel priorities... I have a theory regarding OB, but that needs to be tested yet. We could ask Izzy for OB before we attack. We can't brake the deal on its own for 10 turns (but we can declare war), no one should ask us to stop trading with Izzy in that period. Like I said, this is not tested yet, caravel scouting is safer.

See how much turns we need for Physics on the next turn. Please post the joined research times to understand things better. Sth very strange is going on atm.

I think we covered everything. Godspeed!

 

[classical_hero]

Apologies fro not showing up but we have had some problems with our telephone line, so we could not connect to the internet while it was down. As a result I have not had time to prepare for my turnset, so kcd swede can play and I wil go next.

 

[Yamps]

Apologies fro not showing up but we have had some problems with our telephone line, so we could not connect to the internet while it was down. As a result I have not had time to prepare for my turnset, so kcd swede can play and I wil go next.

Ok, so you are going to fight the first war! Watch closely what's going on.

@Kcd_Swede

City management summary:

We want maximum production of course, overflow is a good thing. Make sure that the overflow doesn't go to Kremlin. Put that in the queue now, JC would probably start that on the next turn, he doesn't have anything else to build. Like I said before, we won't build that, that's to prevent JC to waste hammers. We will want growth after Environmentalism too. Of course, we should keep some scientists and the Fur tile worked to speed up research.


EDIT: (just to make sure)

If you've made a new Civ install after comp problems, make sure you've set autosave interval to 1 turn in the .ini file.

 

[classical_hero]

There is an option for that in game also.

 

[marconos]

War council --- fun term
If we know the computer has 12 - 15 units in the city and we have 6/7 cannons. Those cannons will weaken the entire stack. This allows our grenadiers / rifleman to kill off let's say 5 units. Next turn we knock off 5 more as they get weaker. I have done this tons of times. I have actually taken a city with longbows with a stack of 2 infrantry and 1 siege unit.

The actual damage that we will have to heal will be less in this model as units would end up winning 2 battles not one thus getting promotions quicker which when taken heal a unti up 50% of it's current damage.

I believe if we are trying to win a laurel that we have to push this phase of the game hard. Our entire continent MUST become ours IMO to secure a fast space race victory.

Of course .... I could be wrong

 

[kcd_swede]

Update: I am in play, 2 turns in, nothing out of plan. Med we got in 1. Then could get Phys in 2 turns, but went for Steam... we get in 2. At this rate the attack will be with Inf. !
We are in Envr and Theo if you wondering. I'll let you know if anything develops.

 

[Yamps]

War council --- fun term
If we know the computer has 12 - 15 units in the city and we have 6/7 cannons. Those cannons will weaken the entire stack. This allows our grenadiers / rifleman to kill off let's say 5 units. Next turn we knock off 5 more as they get weaker. I have done this tons of times. I have actually taken a city with longbows with a stack of 2 infrantry and 1 siege unit.

The actual damage that we will have to heal will be less in this model as units would end up winning 2 battles not one thus getting promotions quicker which when taken heal a unti up 50% of it's current damage.

I believe if we are trying to win a laurel that we have to push this phase of the game hard. Our entire continent MUST become ours IMO to secure a fast space race victory.

Of course .... I could be wrong

Our riflemen will be damaged, LB heal fast in the city. Well, I'll use an old testgame and WB to try that. War council, nice term.

Update: I am in play, 2 turns in, nothing out of plan. Med we got in 1. Then could get Phys in 2 turns, but went for Steam... we get in 2. At this rate the attack will be with Inf. !
We are in Envr and Theo if you wondering. I'll let you know if anything develops.

That's unreal! We should revise plans if we get infantry so fast. What about factory, power-plant and Ironworks? What about Pentagon, too?

My starting opinions:

Building troops for the first war, then production buildings. We should let JC build the Pentagon, that's simply too much hammers for us to spare.

We will also need cash for the upgrades, at some point we should probably build the Wall Street, say after the Factory for example.

EDIT: we could also hire some merchants instead of scientists, there is a Market and Grocer possibility.

What do you think? We want those hammers for units, but upgrading is important too.

Kcd_swede, how much till infantry? Post a save please when we get infantry to re-evaluate.

We could also start building Arties soon at this rate! AFAIK, you might be building them while I type!

Marconos is right, we have to push really hard if we want to win anything. We need to find the right plan in the War council.

 

[kcd_swede]

1370ad we have 1 turn to assline - this took 9 turns. In meantime, Cathy has turns cats into artillery, and Cyrus has made Destroyers. Our continent is still ********. If we max out prod we can get Ironworks in 7-8 turns. I pushed 2 rif to back of planned queue so they be Inf instead. I'll get assline and save. OK, now ass-line. I upload save right away. See saladin has Destroyers too. Have set to Phys toward artillery next, with JC takes 6 turns. Very hard to judge how long research takes here! Have a look at the save. If I no hear in an hour, I upgrade to inf and continue as planned with Inf replacing rif. We have 600+ gold should upgrade many.

 

[kcd_swede]

Sorry... forgot that uploading from this computer is not possible. I must e-mail save to other computer and upload from there. That would be tomorrow morning. I try to describe situation instead. Saladin and Cathy getting very advanced... destroyer and artillery. No Wheoohrn, and fleets staying at home. Izzy and Toku still backwards. Cathy demanded Biology and got rejected that is -1. Theo made Saladin +1(now -4). Louis and Mansa still at war, but like "phony war" they no combat. I have 5 turns to get to pre-planned stack, tho 2 rif will be inf instead. I shall upgrade as much as reasonable with cash on hand. Still surplus +9 cash at 100% research. Start marching as planned and then save and e-mail file. Will see if screenshots upload, but I doubt it. Sorry, bit of a handicap but we don't really expect interaction in realtime anyhow, so we make do as normal.

 

[Yamps]

Can you upload the save or do you have troubles with that?

Things are moving really fast. How many units do we have? I'll check upgrade prices. 600 gold is enough for only 2-3 units. (I remember paying 200 gold for LB to upgrade to rifle.)

Maybe we should take a break here? Can't wait to see the save!

EDIT:

Can you send me the email? Hmm, is it okay by the rules for me to upload? If we have infantry we don't need so many troops.