see if this worksView attachment 181260
SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Yamps
Deity
Works! 
That deity AI really techs fast.
Well, let's have a look-see! 
That deity AI really techs fast.
Well, let's have a look-see!
Yamps
Deity
Kcd_Swede, I know that you are eager to play now, but the situation has changed drastically. We can use infantry now for the attack! Let's take a break for 24h. You are still up for play.
Some questions to answer:
How many troops for the attack?
What about upgrades and money buildings?
Should we hire merchants?
What about production
buildings?
How big a city do we want? (Btw, it looks to me that those mines should be worked, not forests, but I could be wrong there.)
At the current rate, how much till Space?
Please post a short summary on the past turns. I see that GA is near Nottingham again. We could lose iron and oil!
Hope you don't mind this request for a break, Kcd_Swede. I believe that it's in the best interest for our team to re-evaluate at this point. Things are going better than planned, we have to use that for our advantage. Other teams are doing well too, we must give our best.
Some questions to answer:
How many troops for the attack?
What about upgrades and money buildings?
Should we hire merchants?
What about production
buildings?How big a city do we want? (Btw, it looks to me that those mines should be worked, not forests, but I could be wrong there.)
At the current rate, how much till Space?
Please post a short summary on the past turns. I see that GA is near Nottingham again. We could lose iron and oil!
Hope you don't mind this request for a break, Kcd_Swede.
I believe that it's in the best interest for our team to re-evaluate at this point. Things are going better than planned, we have to use that for our advantage. Other teams are doing well too, we must give our best.
No probs, Yamps. I want to see Spain defeat those Commie bastards anyhow. I will feel more confident playing the continued turns after I get some input from the team. I shall e-mail the save to my work computer and upload tomorrow morning. It will be the same as what you see in my attachment, so you all may use that for your inspiration.
I've been micromanaging the tiles, and the ones you see saved are not the ones that have been worked. After Enviro I maxed growth for a while. I am confused by the overflow, since I don't see any overflow on the screen, at least not the way I am used to seeing it in BTS. Weird. Previously I was maxing prod, but still 2 turns per unit seems to be all we can do, and overflow doesn't do anything to help. I tried scientists and commerce and whatever, but tech turns and prod don't seem affected. Growth rate and cash changes, tho. That's probably why its sitting on a 2f tile now, tho I can't promise it was there when I last hit enter. Here is the autolog.
View attachment 181267
My notes:
1260, start lumbermill on ph. JC to MED in 1. Cancel stone/clam deal. Cancel whale to HC. Give whale to JC. Sell stone to Louis for 4gpt. Afraid to damand gold from JC to sell gold because JC only has 1 and is in red, so pass on that. JC has no gpt to trade.
1270: Medicine. JC building hospital in Rome. Physics available in 2 turns, but Steam is chosen and is done in 2 turns incl JC (9 turns only us). Revolt to Enviro and Theo. Put sci spec on farm, doesn't change tech turns.
1280: Alex puts swords in Madrid. Mansa asks for help in war we say no. JC has -1 health in Rome and is building Drydock. ???
1290: Cathy has frig+galeon 2s1w from Baghdad. Steam Power! Start on Ass Line, with JC ready in 9. 554beaks, +60gpt, 100% sci. (I think my notes are wrong, +10, maybe... bad handwriting?). Cyrus will trade Demo for lib, but Rome is happy after slaving or starving down to pop 18. No deal. Rome switches production to research. Antium to build Scotland yard in 13.
1300: Alex' sword leaves Madrid. Cathy has 4 more rif in Thebes, now 14. No fighting in Mansa's war.
1320: Cathy has 6 artillery in Thebes.
1330: All ships still in port at Heliopolis. 4r.2art.1gren in St. Pete.
1340: English grens sighted in Spain. Cyrus Destroyers x5 seen about Pascagardee. Cathy Carvel t oSpain. In S. cities she has 5 Frigs but only 1 galleon. No WHEOOHRN anywhere yet.
1360: Izzy still only 13 def units in Madrid. Maybe 3-4 units outside. 4cats, 2 mace, rest LB's.
2 Galleons in Moscow now, that is increase. Machine guns in Pascagardee. Cathy demands bio... Go to hell Russia. -1 more with Cathy. Ass line, Physics in going towards artillery.
No more notes... nor screenshots. Sorry. I didn't really encounter anything out of the expected, other than the blazing tech rate of ai.
Will upload save to scoreboard tomorrow morning (about 11 hrs from now). But you can see the save from the previous post, if you can't wait.
If anybody other than me can understand those notes, you win a prize!
Cheers!
Absolutely. And stack is only 2 units away from what we planned with rifles. Why wait 4 turns before marching? (Remember it takes 5 turns to get there). Also, the tech rate by Saladin and Cathy is truly frightening. We might take our continent easily only to find a long hard grind ahead of us. No medals that way.
I've been micromanaging the tiles, and the ones you see saved are not the ones that have been worked. After Enviro I maxed growth for a while. I am confused by the overflow, since I don't see any overflow on the screen, at least not the way I am used to seeing it in BTS. Weird. Previously I was maxing prod, but still 2 turns per unit seems to be all we can do, and overflow doesn't do anything to help. I tried scientists and commerce and whatever, but tech turns and prod don't seem affected. Growth rate and cash changes, tho. That's probably why its sitting on a 2f tile now, tho I can't promise it was there when I last hit enter. Here is the autolog.
View attachment 181267
My notes:
1260, start lumbermill on ph. JC to MED in 1. Cancel stone/clam deal. Cancel whale to HC. Give whale to JC. Sell stone to Louis for 4gpt. Afraid to damand gold from JC to sell gold because JC only has 1 and is in red, so pass on that. JC has no gpt to trade.
1270: Medicine. JC building hospital in Rome. Physics available in 2 turns, but Steam is chosen and is done in 2 turns incl JC (9 turns only us). Revolt to Enviro and Theo. Put sci spec on farm, doesn't change tech turns.
1280: Alex puts swords in Madrid. Mansa asks for help in war we say no. JC has -1 health in Rome and is building Drydock. ???
1290: Cathy has frig+galeon 2s1w from Baghdad. Steam Power! Start on Ass Line, with JC ready in 9. 554beaks, +60gpt, 100% sci. (I think my notes are wrong, +10, maybe... bad handwriting?). Cyrus will trade Demo for lib, but Rome is happy after slaving or starving down to pop 18. No deal. Rome switches production to research. Antium to build Scotland yard in 13.
1300: Alex' sword leaves Madrid. Cathy has 4 more rif in Thebes, now 14. No fighting in Mansa's war.
1320: Cathy has 6 artillery in Thebes.
1330: All ships still in port at Heliopolis. 4r.2art.1gren in St. Pete.
1340: English grens sighted in Spain. Cyrus Destroyers x5 seen about Pascagardee. Cathy Carvel t oSpain. In S. cities she has 5 Frigs but only 1 galleon. No WHEOOHRN anywhere yet.
1360: Izzy still only 13 def units in Madrid. Maybe 3-4 units outside. 4cats, 2 mace, rest LB's.
2 Galleons in Moscow now, that is increase. Machine guns in Pascagardee. Cathy demands bio... Go to hell Russia. -1 more with Cathy. Ass line, Physics in going towards artillery.
No more notes... nor screenshots. Sorry. I didn't really encounter anything out of the expected, other than the blazing tech rate of ai.
Will upload save to scoreboard tomorrow morning (about 11 hrs from now). But you can see the save from the previous post, if you can't wait.
If anybody other than me can understand those notes, you win a prize!
Cheers!
Yamps
Deity
Still having the grudge against Russia?
Kcd_Swede, as an active player you have the privilege to post the plans first for the next few turns.
Regarding production, hammer overflow does exist, don't worry about it. We need a lot of
to build anything, it's not easy to see it, but it is there.
Btw, 2:0 for Spain atm. EDIT: 3:0. 
@ Marconos, Melior
Because of the timezone difference it would be good for the team if you Americans posted the plans even if Kcd_Swede doesn't post today. It is late now in Stockholm and Zagreb (we are both at +2 GMT) and we are watching EURO 2008 too, btw!
Kcd_Swede, as an active player you have the privilege to post the plans first for the next few turns.
Regarding production, hammer overflow does exist, don't worry about it. We need a lot of
to build anything, it's not easy to see it, but it is there.Btw, 2:0 for Spain atm.
EDIT: 3:0. @ Marconos, Melior
Because of the timezone difference it would be good for the team if you Americans posted the plans even if Kcd_Swede doesn't post today. It is late now in Stockholm and Zagreb (we are both at +2 GMT) and we are watching EURO 2008 too, btw!
Yamps
Deity
There is another problem to solve: Liz has WHEOOHRN.
She should *cough* attack Alex. She is annoyed at him and he is weak. Kcd_swede, how many soldiers does Alex have? Please make new signs when you play for easier planning.
What are we going to do about that?
We are ready for movement by my assessments on the next turn. Upgrading now, one more infantry soldier and we can move.
We could attack Alex, but Liz is so near, she would probably dogpile on him and take the cities before JC arrives! We could raze the cities, but that's not optimal. We could also give military techs to Alex to help him out. We could just wait too, maybe Liz won't attack soon. What do you think we should do?
We have problems with Kublai - Capac. Monarchists stick together, they like Cathy too for example. We can bribe Kublai to attack Izzy, but the war will be over soon and Capac could sign the pact with Cathy, or even Cyrus. I think we have 20 turns before they sign PA, I'll check. We should do sth about that. Maybe we should bribe Kublai to attack Izzy and backstab him while he is not protected by Capac? That's the best idea that I have for now. Of course, we have to deal with Toku, Izzy and Alex too.
She should *cough* attack Alex. She is annoyed at him and he is weak. Kcd_swede, how many soldiers does Alex have? Please make new signs when you play for easier planning.
What are we going to do about that?
We are ready for movement by my assessments on the next turn. Upgrading now, one more infantry soldier and we can move.
We could attack Alex, but Liz is so near, she would probably dogpile on him and take the cities before JC arrives! We could raze the cities, but that's not optimal. We could also give military techs to Alex to help him out. We could just wait too, maybe Liz won't attack soon. What do you think we should do?
We have problems with Kublai - Capac. Monarchists stick together, they like Cathy too for example. We can bribe Kublai to attack Izzy, but the war will be over soon and Capac could sign the pact with Cathy, or even Cyrus. I think we have 20 turns before they sign PA, I'll check. We should do sth about that. Maybe we should bribe Kublai to attack Izzy and backstab him while he is not protected by Capac? That's the best idea that I have for now. Of course, we have to deal with Toku, Izzy and Alex too.
Must have hapenned this last turn. I've been checking and there was no WHEOOHRN before. As long as we are not the target, and it is hard to imagine we are, I don't see an urgent problem.
I do not remember exact numbers of units in Atens, but recall seeing that it hadn't increased from before, except maybe by a catapult and naval unit or so. What is the keystrokes used for making/removing/editting those flags/labels? I have forgotten how.
Agree. mm city to finish inf in 1; upgrade as many rifle to inf as possible. I would plan even to lower research to about 50-60% (the lowest level that does not cause more turns to Physics) and make money for more upgrades.
All inf march next turn. With All but 1 cannon and all but 1 gren, and all but 2-3 rifle. Keep building inf, at 2 turns per unit, and send towards front as they become available. Upgrade home garrison units as soon as cash allows. After x number (x=6?) of more inf are built we should build Ironworks.
Please notice that in about 15 turns we have artillery, unless we choose another path. Units start costing more we will need production bonus.
Can we upgrade our rif while they are in JC's territory? If we make quick work of Izzy (no doubts) and are able to reorganize and take out Toku also quickly (good chance), any surviving rif would need upgrade. I think we can do that in JC's territory, but someone else know for sure? If so, we will have probably a fairly overwhelming force in about the right place to take out Alex before Liz is even done thinking about it. By the time we are ready to go to Atens, we will travel with inf + artillery.
That's getting ahead of ourselves, though.
The plan for the rest of my turnset is pretty much as before, except marching a little bit earlier with a fewer but stronger units(no more than 3-4 turns earlier than originally planned). This stack will be 1 turn from Madrid's wall, ready to DOW when I end my turn. There should be 1 more inf that is 2 turns marching to go, and 1 inf that has 4 turns marching to go, and 1 inf half built. We are counting on nobody closing their borders, btw, which is a pretty good bet but nothing is 100%.
I think we should wait and watch. The WHEOOHRN is recent. When our garrison is inf we have no fears of Liz backstab. If Alex is target, we can probably carry out our original plan and still get to Atens before her. But if she DOW's him right away, then gunpowder maybe will keep him alive long enough for us. Unless she actually DOW's someone, we don't have a reason to address this in my turnset (6 more turns). If she does, I end my turnset. So next player keep track please... this issue is mostly going to fall to you to handle. Next player will get to select promos on at least some of the stack, declare war, bombard, get JC to show up at Madrid (timing critical), kill kill kill x 12, heal/promote DOW Toku, kill kill killl.... well you get the picture. But keep track of all the other aspects as well.
I favor this idea. I don't agree we should backstab him, though. Could we also get him to attack Alex later? Or maybe HC could be bribed. Just make sure we get or raze the cities.
Is there a turn limit after breaking a DP before a new DP can be signed with the same civ?
My biggest strategic worry is Saladin (or anyone else)/Cathy PA. That would be a giant blow to our chances.
Maybe we should stop that Louis/Mansa war (they aren't fighting anyhow) and start working on geopolitics on the far continent soon. Continued stalemate phony war is only helping Cryus and Cathy to an insurmountable dominance of that continent. Too late to help Louis win it, imo, it would take him so long it would be phyrrus victory. I think Louis will end war for 20 cents and a cup of coffe. Mansa wants it over, but you have to talk to Luois. If I hear no advice, though, I will continue with original plan and just let them be for the next 6 turns.
Yamps
Deity
@Kcd_Swede
labels: zoom out, strategy layer button will become available
upgrading: it is possible to upgrade soldiers in JC's lands
Athens: we can reach Athens in time, but that's not the problem, JC's pace is the problem. We would bust the city and Liz would take it, not JC! There are culture problems as well, we have to take out our opponents in the right order.
Money If you reduce science to 0%, you'll only get 130
, that's nothing. We have just enough money for the upgrades now anyway. However, we will need a lot of cash to upgrade cannons to Artillery after the war with Toku.
Kublai and Capac: they could sign DP with Cathy.
Cathy-Saladin: PA is not going to happen, they won't get friendly
....
I have more comments, but I have to go now!
labels: zoom out, strategy layer button will become available
upgrading: it is possible to upgrade soldiers in JC's lands
Athens: we can reach Athens in time, but that's not the problem, JC's pace is the problem. We would bust the city and Liz would take it, not JC! There are culture problems as well, we have to take out our opponents in the right order.
Money If you reduce science to 0%, you'll only get 130
, that's nothing. We have just enough money for the upgrades now anyway. However, we will need a lot of cash to upgrade cannons to Artillery after the war with Toku.Kublai and Capac: they could sign DP with Cathy.
Cathy-Saladin: PA is not going to happen, they won't get friendly
....
I have more comments, but I have to go now!
Izzy first, then Toku. After that who? Are we trying to bring JC's borders towards us to reduce cultural pressures on conquested cities? What order do you see? I had thought we were taking out the most troublesome first, so Alex would be next. But the diplo situation is changing fast, so maybe your suggestion to backstab Kub has more merit than I first considered. But I am focussing on tactical right now, next 6 turns.
Is there anything we could/should do in these turns to thwart Liz warplans? We think she is after Alex, but not sure. Others maybe see Toku and Izzy the same way we do... easy marks. Maybe there is the problem. If we are very sure its Alex, selling him mil tech (gunpowder, I think) for cash could get Liz to rethink. However, it increases risks that we face muskets in Japan or elswhere instead of LB's. I am still leaning toward wait and see.
JC should earn much cash from the conquest of Madrid (and Kyoto). We can ask for it and he will give it. He doesn't need much cash to upgrade. So with this in mind, I agree we don't need to turn down research from 100%.
I eagerly await them.
Yamps
Deity
Ok, I don't have all the answers but here are my suggestions:
It is clear that we need more land, JC isn't exactly the fastest researcher out there. We need good lands, culture from other civs will be a problem. We have enough to attack Izzy and Toku. Kcd_swede, please use the Caravel to scout Toku too.
Tactics:
MM to build the infantry in 1 turn and keep using the mines and the lumbermill. You'll see the overflow on the next turn, hover with the mouse over the hammers dispalyed. When the city grows, an engineer specialist too is an option to consider.
We have the money to upgrade 3 rifles and 2 grens to infantry. Make sure you upgrade the newer units first, keep the old defenders home. The units with more experience should be upgraded first. Our stack of 6 infantry and 9 cannons will be ready for movement on next turn. That leaves a rifle on a hill, 2 grens, a cannon and 2 rifles home.
War engagement:
Izzy first like we agreed on. I've used an old test game and made some testing with WB. I recommend CR promotions to cannons to reduce cannon casualties. It is quite possible that we won't lose a single unit! However, I do expect to lose a cannon or two. Our cannons will reduce the city bonus to 0% with bombardments on the first turn. We will have more cannons and infantry for the attack on the same turn, you'll be tempted to do so. However, I don't recommend that. Infantry will have odds around 98%, but let's reduce the time needed for healing. Izzy won't improve the city defense in Vanilla. Wait for another turn, use more cannons as needed and mop things up with infantry. Of course, "stack attack" option should be turned off, we have to be careful and leave a defender! Infantry should have combat I and combat II promotions. We should get a level 3 unit after this, we need the Heroic Epic ASAP.
These plans are for the next player to execute, but we have to know this now.
We should build the Factory after the first infantry, then the remaining soldiers to avoid hammer lost. We can bring some reinforcements for the attack on Toku, but I don't think we'll need them.
Regarding the production, things get tricky at that point. Power Plant won't work without coal. Ironworks needs coal/iron for the bonus. If we lose the iron we should borrow it from JC for a while. He needs that too, we should get our own iron. Liz will culture bomb on the next turn. Btw, look at the culture at the victory screen. You'll see Nottingham there!
If we do get huge amounts of cash from the war, we'll ask JC to give us that. If we don't we'll need the Wall Street/Grocer/Market.
Fred is the next target. He has great land and he has Coal too, we need that.
Attacking Alex now is to soon, we won't get any good lands there even if JC manages to get there before Liz. Everything depends on the timing, Liz could wait for infantry for example. She already has artillery, btw.
We'll probably have two options for that war:
1) Helping Alex with techs - this won't work if Liz attacks with lot's of artillery/infantry
2) Razing the cities before Liz captures them
.... to be continued, more RL obligations...
It is clear that we need more land, JC isn't exactly the fastest researcher out there. We need good lands, culture from other civs will be a problem. We have enough to attack Izzy and Toku. Kcd_swede, please use the Caravel to scout Toku too.
Tactics:
MM to build the infantry in 1 turn and keep using the mines and the lumbermill. You'll see the overflow on the next turn, hover with the mouse over the hammers dispalyed. When the city grows, an engineer specialist too is an option to consider.
We have the money to upgrade 3 rifles and 2 grens to infantry. Make sure you upgrade the newer units first, keep the old defenders home. The units with more experience should be upgraded first. Our stack of 6 infantry and 9 cannons will be ready for movement on next turn. That leaves a rifle on a hill, 2 grens, a cannon and 2 rifles home.
War engagement:
Izzy first like we agreed on. I've used an old test game and made some testing with WB. I recommend CR promotions to cannons to reduce cannon casualties. It is quite possible that we won't lose a single unit! However, I do expect to lose a cannon or two. Our cannons will reduce the city bonus to 0% with bombardments on the first turn. We will have more cannons and infantry for the attack on the same turn, you'll be tempted to do so. However, I don't recommend that. Infantry will have odds around 98%, but let's reduce the time needed for healing. Izzy won't improve the city defense in Vanilla. Wait for another turn, use more cannons as needed and mop things up with infantry. Of course, "stack attack" option should be turned off, we have to be careful and leave a defender! Infantry should have combat I and combat II promotions. We should get a level 3 unit after this, we need the Heroic Epic ASAP.
These plans are for the next player to execute, but we have to know this now.
We should build the Factory after the first infantry, then the remaining soldiers to avoid hammer lost. We can bring some reinforcements for the attack on Toku, but I don't think we'll need them.
Regarding the production, things get tricky at that point. Power Plant won't work without coal. Ironworks needs coal/iron for the bonus. If we lose the iron we should borrow it from JC for a while. He needs that too, we should get our own iron. Liz will culture bomb on the next turn. Btw, look at the culture at the victory screen. You'll see Nottingham there!
If we do get huge amounts of cash from the war, we'll ask JC to give us that. If we don't we'll need the Wall Street/Grocer/Market.
Fred is the next target. He has great land and he has Coal too, we need that.
Attacking Alex now is to soon, we won't get any good lands there even if JC manages to get there before Liz. Everything depends on the timing, Liz could wait for infantry for example. She already has artillery, btw.
We'll probably have two options for that war:
1) Helping Alex with techs - this won't work if Liz attacks with lot's of artillery/infantry
2) Razing the cities before Liz captures them
.... to be continued, more RL obligations...
Yamps
Deity
Ok, to continue with the planning:
Alex
Let's wait a bit with that. We don't know for sure who is Liz going to attack. It is extremely unlikely that she'll attack us, btw. We should use the warrior to scout her, caravel can watch Alex.
We will probably join the war against Alex. We'll take the cities if possible or raze them down if Liz is closer than JC.
Other continent
I think we should keep Louis and Mansa fighting. We can't really do anything important there without missionaries. We have to convert Cyrus or Louis to Judaism to start a war against Cathy and it would take some time for the bonuses to accumulate even with the same religion. It is important to get as much land as possible to secure the Space victory, that's our first priority. Those missionaries have to wait.
Fred
Seems like the best target after Toku. Great land, low culture problems and coal. We should have our stack practically intact after the wars with Izzy and Toku. At that point cannons should be upgraded and stack reinforced with more infantry.
Time frame
I expect to see Madrid and Kyoto in JC's hands in ~12 turns from now. War should be fast and effective. Attack on Fred should happen very soon after that, but we'll see then what's the situation.
Kublai-Capac
I've just realized that it is possible to bribe Kublai to attack Frederick! That's a better option than bribing him to attack Izzy. War with Izzy will last for 3-4 turns, that's not much. The problem is that they both like Cathy, Capac could be more willing to get protection from her if we cancel the pact with Kublai. We can't bribe Capac to attack anybody, we need Friendly. He is Pleased at +9, a tech would flip him. Resources would work with time, but we don't have any! We can't take the Gold from JC, he needs it. He had a surplus, but he is trading one Gold to Sal for Dye. We can't give him Marble, we need that for the Heroic Epic.
Anyway, they would both be willing to sign a PA later on with Cathy, we can't have that! Maybe it is just better to leave them be. They are almost Friendly at us and JC, they are potential trading partners and DP partners. Of course, if they start out-teching us, you know what we have to do...
Technology trading
It will be hard to get a good trade. Giving 2 techs for one to the technology leaders is not recommended. Helping civs we are about to attack is not a good option too. We don't have much options. Maybe some trading when/if we bribe Kublai/Capac? Kcd_Swede, keep looking for opportunities, maybe we get a relatively fair offer from somebody. You said Cyrus wanted to trade Democracy for Liberalism? I'm usually recommending a mean attitude towards the AI, but that trade sounds good now. Sadly, that's not on the table anymore...
Alex
Let's wait a bit with that. We don't know for sure who is Liz going to attack. It is extremely unlikely that she'll attack us, btw. We should use the warrior to scout her, caravel can watch Alex.
We will probably join the war against Alex. We'll take the cities if possible or raze them down if Liz is closer than JC.
Other continent
I think we should keep Louis and Mansa fighting. We can't really do anything important there without missionaries. We have to convert Cyrus or Louis to Judaism to start a war against Cathy and it would take some time for the bonuses to accumulate even with the same religion. It is important to get as much land as possible to secure the Space victory, that's our first priority. Those missionaries have to wait.
Fred
Seems like the best target after Toku. Great land, low culture problems and coal. We should have our stack practically intact after the wars with Izzy and Toku. At that point cannons should be upgraded and stack reinforced with more infantry.
Time frame
I expect to see Madrid and Kyoto in JC's hands in ~12 turns from now. War should be fast and effective. Attack on Fred should happen very soon after that, but we'll see then what's the situation.
Kublai-Capac
I've just realized that it is possible to bribe Kublai to attack Frederick! That's a better option than bribing him to attack Izzy. War with Izzy will last for 3-4 turns, that's not much. The problem is that they both like Cathy, Capac could be more willing to get protection from her if we cancel the pact with Kublai. We can't bribe Capac to attack anybody, we need Friendly. He is Pleased at +9, a tech would flip him. Resources would work with time, but we don't have any! We can't take the Gold from JC, he needs it. He had a surplus, but he is trading one Gold to Sal for Dye. We can't give him Marble, we need that for the Heroic Epic.
Anyway, they would both be willing to sign a PA later on with Cathy, we can't have that! Maybe it is just better to leave them be. They are almost Friendly at us and JC, they are potential trading partners and DP partners. Of course, if they start out-teching us, you know what we have to do...
Technology trading
It will be hard to get a good trade. Giving 2 techs for one to the technology leaders is not recommended. Helping civs we are about to attack is not a good option too. We don't have much options. Maybe some trading when/if we bribe Kublai/Capac? Kcd_Swede, keep looking for opportunities, maybe we get a relatively fair offer from somebody. You said Cyrus wanted to trade Democracy for Liberalism? I'm usually recommending a mean attitude towards the AI, but that trade sounds good now. Sadly, that's not on the table anymore...
marconos
Prince
I will get the save and review tonight and post my thoughts. Can't wait to see the progress.
Yamps
Deity
Hmm, Kcd_Swede is scheduled to finish his turnset very soon. That's a few more turns, moving the stack to Izzy's borders, war declaration will wait for the next player.
We are not getting enough input from the rest of the team. What do you think, should we wait till tomorrow? I believe Kcd_swede should play now, we have to keep the pace. If you think we should wait, please say.
Btw, there is an outgoing discussion on the maintenance thread regarding the final deadline, our pace depends on that. What do you people think about that?
I'd like to finish my turns tonight, in about an hour. I know that isn't a lot of time, but I think the next 6 turns is pretty straightforward. If Cyrus will offer trade Demo-Lib again I will accept. I will put factory in queue. Other than that, the marching starts next turn and according to plan nothing significant happens before my turnset is over. If something happens and it looks worth considering, I will end my turnset there. I should not that I am starting vacation as of today. That means I cannot do as before and e-mail the save to my work computer. I will instead attach it here in this thread - that seems to work. I will charge Yamps with downloading from this thread and uploading it to the results page. I have discussed this option with AlanH by PM and it is perfectly ok to upload from any computer. Technically, the next player could just play the save from the thread, even, but I think best if Yamps upload first in case some problem appears it is easier to rectify sooner than later.
If nobody says stop in the next hour or two, I will play 6 turns as planned. There is only so much planning that can be done, after all. I promise to be very careful.
As for the deadline, it is under discussion, but so far July 24 seems to be the official date, though it might get extended to August 1 or even later depending on what others teams say. We are ahead of most teams in turns played, but things slow down as it gets more complicated, maybe. No point wasting another day on the next 6 turns, imo.
If nobody says stop in the next hour or two, I will play 6 turns as planned. There is only so much planning that can be done, after all. I promise to be very careful.
As for the deadline, it is under discussion, but so far July 24 seems to be the official date, though it might get extended to August 1 or even later depending on what others teams say. We are ahead of most teams in turns played, but things slow down as it gets more complicated, maybe. No point wasting another day on the next 6 turns, imo.
Yamps
Deity
Well, let's play. Things should be straightforward, but we'll see.
Ok, I'll upload the save for you. I should use your name in the upload form, right? What ever happens with the deadline, 2 turnsets per week is a reasonable pace. We are going to war now, there will be more details to consider and more braking points probably.
Liberalism is researched, deity AI is ramping up...
Btw, have you seen the power Xteam have? Impressive! Let's give our best here!
Ok, I'll upload the save for you. I should use your name in the upload form, right? What ever happens with the deadline, 2 turnsets per week is a reasonable pace. We are going to war now, there will be more details to consider and more braking points probably.
Liberalism is researched, deity AI is ramping up...
Btw, have you seen the power Xteam have? Impressive! Let's give our best here!
marconos
Prince
Finish your turns, just get it uploaded so we can all take a look at it tonight
Hi, my turnset went without much excitement. We just got a factory. Liz still in WHEOOHRN. 1380ad Timbuktu captured. 1420ad Toku declares war on Mansa. But 1420ad Cathy has WHEOOHRN!!!
The year is 1430ad, stack is 6 inf + 9 can (not promoted but 6/2 XP... remember promos will heal Izzy's cat damage) and is 1NW Hamburg, can get to Spain walls in 1 with DOW.
Not much time now. Look at the save and see for yourselves. Remember Yamps to upload it to SGOTM results page.
My turnset is over for this round. Next up!
here it is...
View attachment 181399
The year is 1430ad, stack is 6 inf + 9 can (not promoted but 6/2 XP... remember promos will heal Izzy's cat damage) and is 1NW Hamburg, can get to Spain walls in 1 with DOW.
Not much time now. Look at the save and see for yourselves. Remember Yamps to upload it to SGOTM results page.
My turnset is over for this round. Next up!
here it is...
View attachment 181399
Yamps
Deity
Here is the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/Unusual_Suspects_SG007_AD1430_01.Civ4SavedGame
Logs:
Toku dogpiling on Mansa!
Well, Mansa is finished. Cathy should be going after him too. I haven't looked at the save yet. Time for some sleep for me now. 
Roster: Classical - UP!
I have to find the previous post for the complete list...
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/Unusual_Suspects_SG007_AD1430_01.Civ4SavedGame
Logs:
Spoiler :
Toku dogpiling on Mansa!
Well, Mansa is finished. Cathy should be going after him too. I haven't looked at the save yet. Time for some sleep for me now. Roster: Classical - UP!
I have to find the previous post for the complete list...
marconos
Prince
Well my review isn't that pretty.
IMO we are in horrible shape and we have to move VERY fast to fix some issues in our empire.
1. Way, way too many cannons. 5 - 6 would have been plenty. They can't kill troops just weaken them. Our infantry can kill units and we only have 6 of those?? The numbers of those units should have been reversed. This is going to drastically slow down our ability to conquer cities.
2. Tech race. We are falling way too far behind too fast. The biggest reason for this is we only have 2 computer cities + us -vs- the juggernauts on the other coast.
3. Our military target order doesn't seem correct. Who cares about Tokugawa, he's not a threat and we can kill him at our convience.
My approach to try and fix things.
First, my general war strategy is to take out my strongest competitor 1st. There is no way we can fight the computer on the other continent so that is out. That bring me to our continent. My standard strategy is further modified by the fact that we can't take cities only Ceasar can. So with that said this leads me to my destruction approach.
War Order
1. Isabella --- must die ASAP. Ceasar needs that city as fast as we can get it for him.
2. Fredrick, Berlin -- He is close to us in power. He must die before he get's infantry and it expands Ceasars empire nice and close.
3. Fredrick, Hamburg -- Finish him off expands Ceasar.
4. Huayna Capac, Tiwanaku -- Close to Ceasar and will allow Berlin to have usable tiles.
5. Huayna Capac, Cuzco -- Finish off this enemy.
Now at this point we would have solid borders with Asoka, Elizabeth, Washington and Tokugawa. I could care less about Toku. He will never progress much farther and will never become a true threat. Asoka & Elizabeth need to die as soon as we can attack them. They are too powerful and too close to us. Washington is a distraction and not worth our time till after Asoka and Elizabeth is dead.
The whole strategy for me is based on a fast Fredrick & Isabella wars. We have to move on them quickly. IMO Isabella should already be dead we were way to cautious here and it's costing us in the tech race. Huayne brings in the Kublai issue but we can address that when the time comes. We really need to break up their DP. IMO get at least on of them into war with Alexander. Might as well tie them up.
City wise our production and stuff looks fine, I just think our unit production order was messed up. Hopefully we can build enough infantry to make up for it.
Just my thoughts, and as always .... I could be wrong
IMO we are in horrible shape and we have to move VERY fast to fix some issues in our empire.
1. Way, way too many cannons. 5 - 6 would have been plenty. They can't kill troops just weaken them. Our infantry can kill units and we only have 6 of those?? The numbers of those units should have been reversed. This is going to drastically slow down our ability to conquer cities.
2. Tech race. We are falling way too far behind too fast. The biggest reason for this is we only have 2 computer cities + us -vs- the juggernauts on the other coast.
3. Our military target order doesn't seem correct. Who cares about Tokugawa, he's not a threat and we can kill him at our convience.
My approach to try and fix things.
First, my general war strategy is to take out my strongest competitor 1st. There is no way we can fight the computer on the other continent so that is out. That bring me to our continent. My standard strategy is further modified by the fact that we can't take cities only Ceasar can. So with that said this leads me to my destruction approach.
War Order
1. Isabella --- must die ASAP. Ceasar needs that city as fast as we can get it for him.
2. Fredrick, Berlin -- He is close to us in power. He must die before he get's infantry and it expands Ceasars empire nice and close.
3. Fredrick, Hamburg -- Finish him off expands Ceasar.
4. Huayna Capac, Tiwanaku -- Close to Ceasar and will allow Berlin to have usable tiles.
5. Huayna Capac, Cuzco -- Finish off this enemy.
Now at this point we would have solid borders with Asoka, Elizabeth, Washington and Tokugawa. I could care less about Toku. He will never progress much farther and will never become a true threat. Asoka & Elizabeth need to die as soon as we can attack them. They are too powerful and too close to us. Washington is a distraction and not worth our time till after Asoka and Elizabeth is dead.
The whole strategy for me is based on a fast Fredrick & Isabella wars. We have to move on them quickly. IMO Isabella should already be dead we were way to cautious here and it's costing us in the tech race. Huayne brings in the Kublai issue but we can address that when the time comes. We really need to break up their DP. IMO get at least on of them into war with Alexander. Might as well tie them up.
City wise our production and stuff looks fine, I just think our unit production order was messed up. Hopefully we can build enough infantry to make up for it.
Just my thoughts, and as always .... I could be wrong
Yamps
Deity
Ok, here it is:
Roster:
1 - marconos
2 - classical_hero - (swapped) - UP!
3 - kcd_swede - just played!
4 - Melior Traiano - on deck!
6 - shikhee - expected back soon
7 - Yamps
8 - Ankka (unofficially resigned)
9 - vra379971 - save opening problems
5 - Morganknight - save opening problems
Classical, please say as soon as possible if you are playing or not. As usual, 24h is the deadline. Melior, you are probably scheduled for Monday or Tuesday, will you have some time for play then?
Time for war, gentlemen!
Roster:
1 - marconos
2 - classical_hero - (swapped) - UP!
3 - kcd_swede - just played!
4 - Melior Traiano - on deck!
6 - shikhee - expected back soon
7 - Yamps
8 - Ankka (unofficially resigned)
9 - vra379971 - save opening problems
5 - Morganknight - save opening problems
Classical, please say as soon as possible if you are playing or not. As usual, 24h is the deadline. Melior, you are probably scheduled for Monday or Tuesday, will you have some time for play then?
Time for war, gentlemen!
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