SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects

IMO no.

Reasons for not attacking Alex ... it makes our position weaker not stronger. By taking him out it give Ceasar 2 more cities that he has to defend. We need to be able to take out Liz very fast and have even more points that we potentially have to defend isn't a good idea to me.

I say build up then begin the mark to final victory
Liz
Asoka
Alex
Capac
Kublai

And then if we don't quite have enough ( population wise ) we send some troops to the other continent and start razing cities ;)
 
I have to agree about leaving Alex alone for now. But I think we need to take over his cities before turning on Hu/Ku because Caesar has no cultural influence on Alex's lands. So to pick up Alex's lands for Domination, we need border pops. On the other hand, Caesar has very good cultural coverage of Hu/Ku's lands, so we get credit for the large majority of those tiles right after the cities fall. Clearly, leaving Alex for last & waiting around for border pops won't be optimal. The downside is Hu/Ku would have some more time to tech to Tanks & possibly Gunships. But even if they tech to Gunships, it's not a big deal because they don't have any mounted units that can be upgraded to Gunships. And their production isn't huge, so even if they do field some Gunships, it's not gonna be such a big problem that a stack of Flanking 2 Tanks can't deal with.
 
A SAM inf or better yet, a Mech Inf will protect stacks from gunships quite well. My biggest problem with gunships has always been their ability to pillage the crap out of my infrastructure in a very short time. Pesky little gnats. This is another reason all wars should be planned on the blitzkrig principle. So far, I like what I hear, and the "Option 2" is the one I prefer. Re-evaluate situation after build is done, of course. A lot can happen in 12 turns.
 
Let's prepare for Liz, attacking Alex now would stretch us and foreign culture would crush those cities anyway. Right order of capturing is very important.

I believe we have a consensus for play, let's do it!
 
I have a long report, but as I sprained my right thumb, its going to have to wait till tomorrow evening.

What it sums up to is this.

Cathy decideds she has too much time on her hands, and fixes her need by attacking (savaging mabye) Monty. He asked for help, and that gave me a smile. I declined of course...

Alot of casings were built...

Medicine seems to have great trade value these days. Cathy put a decent deal on the table at the end of facism plus 630 for Med. I decline at the time. Good deal to rethink though.

Plastics is in, and JC goes crazy. I made a mistake and didnt cue up the WW, as JC thinks he needs to build it now. Baaaah.

I started in on flight, not Radio btw, as Bombers will be of much use. The calculation is that with Rock and Roll built, 9 turns from now Radio will be tradeable.

Oh, here was the kicker. Our oil got cultur-ed by Liz, so I was forced to take JCs Oil.
-----

So, my reccomendations here:

Use Wash Garrison and BShips to knock out Nottingham immediately. We need our oil back, so JC can have his, and build tanks. I railroaded, so it works.

You will see I only did 3 Bships. It is because I stopped a turn early. NOW is the time to declare vs Liz, as she put all her troops in the old Jap city. So CR tank attacks FTW. Btw, we have NO LV 4 troops. We have two infantry candidates, who could be our LV 4 troops, so we can unlock WP, which would take 2 turns and be of great benefit.

So yup, thats all. PS Yamps, didnt kill the signs, not sure what I was supposed to delete.

PS - No Great Person yet, next turn, next turn. I would have declared and attacked, but as I, like Moses was madated to see the Promised Land but not cross into it, I dutifully wrapped up.

=====

Wow, how useful!

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1640 AD to 1695 AD:

Turn 238, 1640 AD: Elizabeth has completed SS Casing!
Turn 238, 1640 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!
Turn 238, 1640 AD: Saladin has completed SS Casing!

Turn 239, 1645 AD: Great Prophet has been born in Rome!
Turn 239, 1645 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!
Turn 239, 1645 AD: Catherine adopts Theocracy!

Turn 240, 1650 AD: Leif Erickson has been born in Tenochtitlan!
Turn 240, 1650 AD: Saladin has completed SS Casing!
Turn 240, 1650 AD: Kublai Khan/Huayna Capac has completed SS Casing!

Turn 241, 1655 AD: Asoka has completed Apollo Program!
Turn 241, 1655 AD: Elizabeth has completed SS Casing!

Turn 242, 1660 AD: Kublai Khan/Huayna Capac has completed SS Casing!
Turn 242, 1660 AD: Great Engineer has been born in Mecca!

Turn 243, 1665 AD: Saladin has completed Rock N Roll!
Turn 243, 1665 AD: Kublai Khan/Huayna Capac has completed SS Casing!
Turn 243, 1665 AD: Great Artist has been born in Paris!

Turn 244, 1670 AD: Great Prophet has been born in York!
Turn 244, 1670 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!

Turn 245, 1675 AD: Catherine has declared war on Montezuma!
Turn 245, 1675 AD: Memphis has been captured by the Russian Empire!!!
Turn 245, 1675 AD: Louis XIV converts to Confucianism!

Turn 246, 1680 AD: Montezuma adopts Theocracy!
Turn 246, 1680 AD: Buddhism has spread in Beijing.
Turn 246, 1680 AD: Great Engineer has been born in Moscow!

Turn 247, 1685 AD: You have discovered Plastics!
Turn 247, 1685 AD: Deal Canceled: Fur to Julius Caesar (Plastics auto-result)
Turn 247, 1685 AD: Asoka has completed SS Casing!
Turn 247, 1685 AD: Asoka has completed SS Casing!
Turn 247, 1685 AD: Catherine has completed SS Casing!

Turn 248, 1690 AD: Elizabeth has completed SS Casing!
Turn 248, 1690 AD: Saladin has completed SS Casing!
Turn 248, 1690 AD: Teotihuacan has been captured by the Russian Empire!!!
Turn 248, 1690 AD: Kublai Khan/Huayna Capac has completed SS Casing!
 
Cathy decideds she has too much time on her hands, and fixes her need by attacking (savaging mabye) Monty. He asked for help, and that gave me a smile. I declined of course...

This leaves Hu/Ku unprotected! :) However, we don't want Cathy to steamroll Monty! Louis will be next btw! I'm seriously considering gifting Monty Assembly line and all needed techs for that. We can't let her grow so strong, Monty has lost a city already. Luckily, he has a city on another continent, that should delay Cathy's conquest.

Medicine seems to have great trade value these days. Cathy put a decent deal on the table at the end of facism plus 630 for Med. I decline at the time. Good deal to rethink though.

Good thing that you didn't accept! We don't need Fascism at all and Medicine is a monopoly tech. JC won't accumulate WW, we'll kill everybody too fast for that. ;)

Plastics is in, and JC goes crazy. I made a mistake and didnt cue up the WW, as JC thinks he needs to build it now. Baaaah.

This could be good for us if JC builds it. However, Sal will beat him to it. We would get the bonus from the wonder too. Why did you want to queue it? Anyway, JC will probably stop building it when we declare war, he did the same thing with the Pentagon.

Btw, to prevent JC from queuing wonders for sure he has to research the technology first. There was a post explaining how to do that most effectively, I'll dig up the link again.

Techs:

I started in on flight, not Radio btw, as Bombers will be of much use. The calculation is that with Rock and Roll built, 9 turns from now Radio will be tradeable.

We wont be able to get Radio by trade. The only people willing to trade with us are Liz and Cyrus and sometimes Cathy on fresh reloads, that's a bug. We don't have anything to give for Radio anyway, we should protect the Medicine monopoly do delay the AI space race.

The plan was to beeline to mech infantry to get them ready in time for the final war. Sure, bombers would be nice, but that also means a lot of suicide planes for JC. We want him to build ground troops, we can live without bombers, we have artillery and tanks. I think we should go for flight only if we have to protect our skies. You've only researched Flight for one turn, we can still switch to Radio.

Strategy

We should rethink our strategy at this point. We have a great opportunity to attack Hu/Ku sooner! My initial ideas:

  • Conquering Liz as planned with some modifications due to Oil problems
  • Giving bunch of techs to Monty to prolong the war with Cathy for as long as possible. We could get penalties from Liz and Asoka and certainly from Cathy, but do we really care about that?
  • Skipping Asoka, Hu/Cu after Liz! We have to evaluate this now, are we going to have enough soldiers when we finish the war with Liz?


So, my reccomendations here:

Use Wash Garrison and BShips to knock out Nottingham immediately. We need our oil back, so JC can have his, and build tanks. I railroaded, so it works.

You will see I only did 3 Bships. It is because I stopped a turn early. NOW is the time to declare vs Liz, as she put all her troops in the old Jap city. So CR tank attacks FTW. Btw, we have NO LV 4 troops. We have two infantry candidates, who could be our LV 4 troops, so we can unlock WP, which would take 2 turns and be of great benefit.

Nottingham ASAP, that makes sense. However, we have to protect Washington. Rails are useful, but we can't attack and move back in Washington on the same turn, Nottingham will have to wait for few turns. We need some adjustments in the plans.

So yup, thats all. PS Yamps, didnt kill the signs, not sure what I was supposed to delete.

Signs like "culture bomb please", "not for this hill", etc.


Ok guys, let's examine the situation again. :)


EDIT:


Montezuma must be helped with techs, this is a great opportunity to keep Cathy busy and isolate Hu/Ku, we must seize the day!

Actually that was a good place to make a pause Vra, let's hope it's not to late for Monty. Cathy will most likely take him out eventually, but let's prolong that. Machine guns, infantry, artillery, everything for Monty!

I looked at the save a bit and I agree that we can take Nottingham immediately. JC has some forces there, let's tell him to attack Kyoto and Nottingham immediately when we declare war. Battleships can bombard defense, we could also use an artillery or 2 for the job. We have 3 inf on that forest tile, we could use 2 to protect artillery and 1 for Washington. This is just a draft, we have to be careful there. We don't want to lose Washington to Liz!

Liz has many soldiers in Kyoto, that really looks like CR fest for us. :) We should bombard defenses to 0% and strike immediately with 4 remaining arties and CR tanks.
 
Roster

Roster needs some changes due to swapping and we have Vra in action now! :thumbsup:

Vra379971 - just played!
Classical_hero - UP!
Kcd_swede - on deck!
Marconos
Yamps
Melior Traiano

Classical, you were swapped a lot so you are up for play now. Do you have the time?

We have some deadline issues, but the game should be over in 40 turns. I think it's time for shorter turnsets, around 10 turns each. Of course, we should pause for discussions even sooner like before if the situation calls for it.
 
I'll have to take a look at the game later, but at first glance, it seems that leaving either Alex or Asoka as the last target results in the same sub-optimality: waiting for border pops to claim enough land. But I'll have a look later & see if I can't come up with some projections for different endgame scenarios.

I also think we should give Monty tech freebies so he can field MGs & Infantry. He might still lose the war, but at least with modern units, he can inflict more damage on Cathy's army.
 
So I'm taking a look at the game.

We're going to be okay with regard to population. ATM, our continent has 45% of global pop. Once Caesar takes over more cities, pop should be somewhat higher still because culture won't be blocking border cities from working tiles (since there won't be borders).

There's much less margin for error with regard to land, though. We need 283 land to win. The continent has 293 total. The problem is that there are tiles that barring GA bombs, would be impossible to claim without a second border pop from a city. I've marked these with red X's:

2ndpopLiz.jpg


2ndpopAsoka.jpg


2ndpopAlexHuayna.jpg


Other tiles that look like they would need 2nd border pops too are already currently controlled by our PA's culture. So by my count, there are 11 tiles that would need 2nd border pops to be claimed by Caesar. Asoka's Marble & the peak SW of it actually need a 3rd pop from Delhi. Also, every one of Kublai's tiles, except the southernmost one, is already covered by Caesar. Someone should double check my analysis, if possible.

So what we would want to do is claim 4 of those 11 tiles by the time Kublai's cities fall, because if we do that, we should have claimed enough land to win the game once we end turn & Caesar's culture claims Kublai's land on the new turn. So ideally, what we'd want to do is GA bomb Delhi, kill Alex, then kill off Hu/Ku marching right down the map from north to south. Unfortunately, our chances of popping a GA are only 34% now. Delhi might have to develop culture the old-fashioned way. But regardless, the bottom line is we definitely don't want to delay capturing Delhi because if we do, we will end up waiting for a border pop once the fighting is all over. Cathy's attacking Monty has presented us an interesting possibility, but I think we'd be hurting ourselves in the long run if we attack Hu/Ku first.

With regard to other aspects of the game:

Battleships need to be deployed right on top of the seafood tiles north of Nottingham. I would promote to either Drill or Combat 2.

Agreed that we should switch teching toward Robotics.

We should gift techs each turn to Monty until he has what's needed to field Infantry, Machine Guns, and Artillery. Monty has taken a big hit in Power while Cathy has taken very little. We should prop Monty up so he can slow her advance down, at least.

I agree we should shred Liz's army in Kyoto this turn. I think I'd bomb down with some rookie Artillery & send in the CR3 guy followed by all the other available CR2's. Then CR Tanks to kill the Infantry & some SAMs, followed by Infantry vs SAMs, and then use the Tanks a second time to kill off the units wounded by collateral. I'm not sure we've got quite the firepower to completely wipe out that stack, but it'll be weakened enough that Caesar should win easily. Make sure to tell Caesar to attack Kyoto so that he won't do something stupid, like step out of Washington. Then split off the Tanks to heal at Washington (we'll need a Medic unit there), pick up reinforcements, head for York, etc. as described.

I think we need to use the Three Musketeers fortified on the Fur to kill the SAM defending Nottingham's Well & pillage it to make sure Liz can't build Tanks. We'll just rebuild the Well afterwards. Caesar doesn't need Tanks that badly that he can't make do without Oil for the next little while.

I would also go with max Artists the next turn to see if we can't pop that GA for Delhi. If we do get a GA, our land issues should be taken care of.
 
We can't culture bomb with our Great Artist. We would have to gift them to Ceasar and hope that he uses them to culture bomb in that city. The chances of that happening are pretty slim IMO.

Beyond that I like the plan laid out. I agree that Hu/Ku can wait ATM. Great job on looking at the exact tiles that are needed to grow.
 
Great effort there Melior! :thumbsup:

I'll look at the tiles too for double checking.

With regard to other aspects of the game:

Battleships need to be deployed right on top of the seafood tiles north of Nottingham. I would promote to either Drill or Combat 2.

Agreed that we should switch teching toward Robotics.

We should gift techs each turn to Monty until he has what's needed to field Infantry, Machine Guns, and Artillery. Monty has taken a big hit in Power while Cathy has taken very little. We should prop Monty up so he can slow her advance down, at least.

Agreed! Btw, Monty has oil and uranium, let's give him Combustion too for destroyers. Actually, let's also give him Industrialism for tanks! This is a bad time to be mean to Monty, let's give Cathy some trouble.

I agree we should shred Liz's army in Kyoto this turn. I think I'd bomb down with some rookie Artillery & send in the CR3 guy followed by all the other available CR2's. Then CR Tanks to kill the Infantry & some SAMs, followed by Infantry vs SAMs, and then use the Tanks a second time to kill off the units wounded by collateral. I'm not sure we've got quite the firepower to completely wipe out that stack, but it'll be weakened enough that Caesar should win easily. Make sure to tell Caesar to attack Kyoto so that he won't do something stupid, like step out of Washington. Then split off the Tanks to heal at Washington (we'll need a Medic unit there), pick up reinforcements, head for York, etc. as described.

Agreed on almost everything. JC will most certainly move a lot of soldiers from Washington, that could be problematic.

I think we need to use the Three Musketeers fortified on the Fur to kill the SAM defending Nottingham's Well & pillage it to make sure Liz can't build Tanks. We'll just rebuild the Well afterwards. Caesar doesn't need Tanks that badly that he can't make do without Oil for the next little while.

I don't think we have to pillage it. If we have soldiers on that tile Nottingham can't work the tile. However, does that remove Oil from Liz? We should check this.

Anyway, I think we should use JC's stack in Washington. If we only tell him to attack Kyoto he will most probably suicide that stack on York. I suggest we tell him to attack Kyoto and Nottingham when we declare war. Now, will he understand what to do? AI has its moments sometimes.

Here is the plan:

Battleships for bombardment, 2 musketeers ;) to iron tile and 1 to Washington. 1 artillery to iron for bombardment. That should drop defenses in Nottingham to 0%. We would ignore the SAM on the first turn, she can't build a tank in one turn. The iron tile is well connected to Washington, we could move those soldiers to Washington on the next turn if we have too. This plan is flexible, we have more options. If JC captures Nottingham on the next turn, great! If he doesn't, we can attack the SAM soldier.

I would also go with max Artists the next turn to see if we can't pop that GA for Delhi. If we do get a GA, our land issues should be taken care of.

What has to be done, has to be done. :)
 
We can't culture bomb with our Great Artist. We would have to gift them to Ceasar and hope that he uses them to culture bomb in that city. The chances of that happening are pretty slim IMO.

Beyond that I like the plan laid out. I agree that Hu/Ku can wait ATM. Great job on looking at the exact tiles that are needed to grow.


JC did culture bomb in Washington when we gifted the GA, but you are right, we can't be sure that he'll bomb in the right city. We have a possible solution for this problem: we don't have to gift the GA for settling. That would be slow, but probably good enough if we do it early. Delhi certainly has a lot of culture buildings, I believe we'll manage.

I think we have a great situation here! We can take Liz, Asoka and Alex very fast. We'll help Monty to keep Cathy occupied and with some luck Hu/Ku will stay unprotected.

Of course, now is the time to push even harder, no relaxing till the end. ;)


EDIT 1

It looks like some teams have finished! JerichoHill plays for Misfits and he posted in the XTeam thread. Well, that's impressive! How did they manage to finish so fast?!

EDIT 2

Murky Waters have finished too! LowtherCastle is posting in the Misfits thread. Oh well, let's try to avoid wooden spoons. :blush:
 
The week end is really my only opportunity to play, so i can have a look and see what is available.

It looks like more swapping is necessary.

Kcd_swede, Marconos, do you feel ready to play? We have the plans, there are some minor details left to work out.

Next session is the attack on Liz, Classical could take out Asoka for the weekend.
 
Thats a stupid mistake, not a victory, or would not have the submissions page displayed it....

No, they won't show the results while other teams are playing. :(
 
Hold on here, let's not jump to conclusions. Are entire teams posting in other teams' threads? If individual players have dropped out from their teams, can they post in other teams' threads? Maybe what you're seeing is individual players who have dropped out posting in other threads. If you look at Murky Waters' Power, it just took a big dive. Are you sure this player of theirs didn't throw in the towel and quit in the face of imminent defeat?
 
Back
Top Bottom