SGOTM 07 - Xteam

[Mad Professor]

Yes, you're right too.

I'm feeling the pain of 10 turns in front of the monitor pleading with Asoka to please take a city. Those ten turns will cost us, I fear...

Maybe, maybe not - I don't think you can nail it dows to something so specific. Actually I think we did very well - I was very impressed anyhow! Even among the other teams I think only CRC has matched our tech pace to communism - that was very well done. Maybe some "klarifications" on the code would have sped us up a little

Anyhow, I'll be watching the other teams with interest from now on to see how they go. Unfortunately watching MW play is a bit like watching grass grow, but the results are undoubtedly good in the end.

 

[rrau]

Are we still trying to keep up the illusion of not finishing? Or since a couple teams have seen through it, can we browse their threads without logging out now?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Curious to know if other teams' games had JC less successful early against the Mongols or if they intervened to assure this.

 

[leif erikson]

Are we still trying to keep up the illusion of not finishing? Or since a couple teams have seen through it, can we browse their threads without logging out now?

Please feel free to browse as you wish. It was fun while we thought it lasted...

 

[daniel smith]

First of all, well played Xteam.

Anyhow, I'll be watching the other teams with interest from now on to see how they go. Unfortunately watching MW play is a bit like watching grass grow, but the results are undoubtedly good in the end.

Yeah, they plan for 300 posts, play one turn and bang there it goes down the water. But it's very interesting to follow, even for me - someone who doesn't really play the game.

I think the best part was when I stumbeled upon SGOTM. I started reading MW thread and there is a link on the first page that bring you to the previous SGOTM - little did I know about it, I thought it was a reference to some post in 07. I kept reading the 06 and thought - wierd, wasn't it supposed to be a OCC. I think I got to 1000+ post when I realised what was going on. I was reading the wrong thread.

 

[leif erikson]

Maybe, maybe not - I don't think you can nail it dows to something so specific. Actually I think we did very well - I was very impressed anyhow! Even among the other teams I think only CRC has matched our tech pace to communism - that was very well done. Maybe some "klarifications" on the code would have sped us up a little

Anyhow, I'll be watching the other teams with interest from now on to see how they go. Unfortunately watching MW play is a bit like watching grass grow, but the results are undoubtedly good in the end.

Yes, I suppose you're right. I'm trying to find some time to replay it and see if I can do any better with different strategy or with JC as a partner. It has been so hot and humid here that running civ causes some heating problems with my system, so I might get a chance in a couple of days. This 100 degree (38 celsius) heat is for the birds...

First of all, well played Xteam.

 

[Mad Professor]

Yes, I suppose you're right. I'm trying to find some time to replay it and see if I can do any better with different strategy or with JC as a partner. It has been so hot and humid here that running civ causes some heating problems with my system, so I might get a chance in a couple of days. This 100 degree (38 celsius) heat is for the birds...

I haven't looked at all threads, but I haven't found one where there's a PA with JC yet. It doesn't seem a popular choice!

Heat? Sounds like you're having a good summer there Leif. Having dragged my laptop around Chad (check a map of north/central Africa if you're not sure where that is) I know about getting computers to work in the heat! I had a motherboard on the way out at one stage - probably thanks to the heat rather than the motherboard causing these problems, but the computer would simply shut down after about 30 minutes. Too hot. I got an extra 30 minutes out of it each time by putting the laptop up on books leaving a gap underneath for some ice trays which I slipped underneath. Worked a treat until the ice melted. Needless to say I was madly trying to obtain another commputer at the time...

 

[Mad Professor]

Misfits have posted a 1240AD save. I haven't been able to look at it yet, but from a quick scan of their thread, it seems they still have 3 cities left to take. Liz is just about dead (still has 2 cities lightly defended) but Asoka (their PA partner) is being rather slow about moving in (sound familiar?) They suffered a bit from Liz's Redcoats, but not a whole lot really. The other city they have left to take is Tiwanaku, and they have a wounded stack about 3 turns move from there. To say more, I'd have to look at the save itself which I haven't done yet.

 

[leif erikson]

Misfits have posted a 1240AD save. I haven't been able to look at it yet, but from a quick scan of their thread, it seems they still have 3 cities left to take. Liz is just about dead (still has 2 cities lightly defended) but Asoka (their PA partner) is being rather slow about moving in (sound familiar?) They suffered a bit from Liz's Redcoats, but not a whole lot really. The other city they have left to take is Tiwanaku, and they have a wounded stack about 3 turns move from there. To say more, I'd have to look at the save itself which I haven't done yet.

They have a population problem. Just did a quick count and, once they capture all of the continent, they will have 38.1% of pop with a requirement of 44%. Cathy has 19% of pop while Cyrus has 15% and Salad comes in next with 14%. Looking at the save, so many tiles have been pillaged that it will take a while to get some rapid pop built, I think. They need to either add 20 pop points or take Cathy down 20 points while gaining 5 themselves, or some combination like that, to get within the pop limit.

I think they can do it and are building Galleons. It will take time though as their units are on the west side of the continent, along with their newly built galleons while Cathy sits off to their east. A lot of sailing to do! It will be an interesting race...

Heat? Sounds like you're having a good summer there Leif. Having dragged my laptop around Chad (check a map of north/central Africa if you're not sure where that is) I know about getting computers to work in the heat! I had a motherboard on the way out at one stage - probably thanks to the heat rather than the motherboard causing these problems, but the computer would simply shut down after about 30 minutes. Too hot. I got an extra 30 minutes out of it each time by putting the laptop up on books leaving a gap underneath for some ice trays which I slipped underneath. Worked a treat until the ice melted. Needless to say I was madly trying to obtain another computer at the time...

Well, you had more problems that me. I'm just creeping out of the safe zone a bit, good cpu cooler but 90 degree F air doesn't do much to cool the inner case.

Hope none of that melt water found its way into the system case.

Glad you survived it.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Reading some of klarius's posts (see the klarius korner on the first page) in the Murky thread is very eye opening.

The kind of information that can be learned by looking into the game code is cetainly useful. Full credit to klarius and Murky Waters for doing that, but it does create a gap between the "haves and have-nots". At least they are very good about documenting it so that it is available for all to read.

I'll have to try to remember the more usefull stuff and incorporate it into my own games - the gotms at deity level are tough and I need all the help I can get!

It seems such a world away from the game I was playing 18 months ago when I won on Prince difficulty for the first time and felt unstoppable!!!!

 

[ShannonCT]

The kind of information that can be learned by looking into the game code is cetainly useful. Full credit to klarius and Murky Waters for doing that, but it does create a gap between the "haves and have-nots". At least they are very good about documenting it so that it is available for all to read.

I think we should have spent more time ourselves looking into the code when we were having trouble getting Asoka to go where we wanted. Next game, if we come to a point where understanding the AI will be of significant benefit, we can slow down and dig into the code ourselves.

Misfits looks like they are being slowed down as well by Asoka's lack of cooperation. And they are trying to plan an overseas invasion to capture a Russian city. It'll be interesting to see if they can get Asoka to cooperate with that. And they're planning to culture bomb that captured city with a GA. I guess they don't know that you can't culture bomb a PA's city.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I think Murky had a good strategy and domination plan right from the start. Kublai was their top choice for PA partner and somehow, due to the AI war declarations and their own manipulation, he had captured 5 cities before the PA was signed!

 

[rrau]

Well, we just won't let them in on that!

 

[rrau]

I thought that somewhere, someone said if the AI's number one they wouldn't sign a PA? I was surprised when they were able to form the PA

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I thought that somewhere, someone said if the AI's number one they wouldn't sign a PA? I was surprised when they were able to form the PA

No, you can sign a PA with the #1 in power. I found the truth in the Murky Thread. If the two target PA partners have >50% of the total world power between them then they won't sign a PA.

There are a few civ folklore fables that are mythbusted in the Murky Thread.

Other ones were that :

• open borders doesn't actually affect religion spread.
• keeping your borders closed at the beginning of a game so that enemy AI can't see your weak city defenders is a myth. AI will declare war based on a RNG roll, their diplo relationship with you, your power rating and your distance from their borders.

 

[Mad Professor]

Misfits looks like they are being slowed down as well by Asoka's lack of cooperation. And they are trying to plan an overseas invasion to capture a Russian city. It'll be interesting to see if they can get Asoka to cooperate with that. And they're planning to culture bomb that captured city with a GA. I guess they don't know that you can't culture bomb a PA's city.

If their successful finish is dependent on them capturinga Russian city then there's hope for us to finish before them. If they can get Asoka to rush over to the other continent with enough to capture then KEEP a Russian city then I want to know how it's done!!

As for the GA, the best you can do isn't it, is give the GA to the PA partner, and hope he does the culture bomb...?

I think Murky had a good strategy and domination plan right from the start. Kublai was their top choice for PA partner and somehow, due to the AI war declarations and their own manipulation, he had captured 5 cities before the PA was signed!

The MW game is looking like a very nice domination game indeed. The CRC game will prove to be a supurb non-PA diplo game if they get what they're obviously aiming for. That reamins to be seen. Both Misfits and us have also done very well IMHO.

 

[daniel smith]

Reading some of klarius's posts (see the klarius korner on the first page) in the Murky thread is very eye opening.

I would like to point out that at one point Erkon went on vacation/was absent and stopped updating klarius's corner. So it is not complete.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Thanks for the myth busting, JT. Interesting that in our game JC got the best of Kublai . . . be interesting to know what made the difference.

 

[ShannonCT]

I have been playing some of the current saves of other teams to see when they should finish.

Misfits: Can win on turn 198, unless they do something stupid. They just need to capture two more cities on their continent and raze a Russian city. As long as they declare war on Russia and raze the city on the same turn, they shouldn't have a problem.

CRC: Can win on turn 180-190 if everything goes right. But a lot can go wrong. They're going for diplo victory by building a Jewish bloc. Besides the regular problems of AI demanding wars and trades and getting upset for trading with their worst enemy, there's also the problem of AI switching to Free Religion. In playing their game, Jewish Lizzy and Louis both switched to FR and couldn't be bribed back. Julius kept switching to Buddhism because he had captured Madrid, the Buddhist holy city. CRC has been heavily dependent on a specialist economy, which has gotten them to Physics very quickly, but Radio and Mass Media will come slowly, especially with Scientists unable to bulb those techs. They can run artists instead of scientists and get a couple GAs to help bulb, but they're only good for about 15% of Radio/MM. So they can't keep their entire Jewish bloc from Free Religion before building the UN. From their last turn report, it looks like things are starting to turn messy, and they're going to have to play better to get a diplo win.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Thanks for the myth busting, JT. Interesting that in our game JC got the best of Kublai . . . be interesting to know what made the difference.

They managed the home AI through bribing and war declarations. If they were worried about JC going after Kublai they would have bribed JC to attack someone else.

When Alphabet came in Murky started manipulating their first inter-continent wars. This was a lot earlier than us. Although I'm not sure if it was luck or really good planning that let Kublai grow into a formidable power. Like if you set two AI's into war against a third AI you can't know which one will end up capturing the cities and which one will only be suiciding their units. I'm sure Murky had an effective way of influencing this, but there may have been an element of good fortune too.