SGOTM 07 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sounds good. A couple of points:
1. It will require 2,040 Gold to upgrade all 12 Cannons. I don't see us being able to do that without Asoka getting Athens, Cuzco and Sparta; prolly Tiawanaku too!
2. I think we should kick off the wars with Fred versus HC and Julius versus Fred asap, as long as having Fred declare on HC will not affect whether Julius will declare on Fred?
3. Not sure we have enough Infantry type units (Grenadiers) to accompany two groups of Artillery. If we can get one group up and running, heading for Sparta, we should be able to take Cuzco with Cannons.
Certainly should change to State Property and convert the Towns to Workshops asap. WW should disappear when Lizzie goes away!
I'm not sure about the Railroad path. If we need to take down a few cities on the other continent, SAM Inf would be needed I think. Perhaps we should stick with it for the moment.
How about a Galleon or two in the build order, after the Work Boats?
Frederiksberg
Deity
leif erikson said:
I don't expect JC to be less likely to attack Fred if Fred is already at war with HC. If we did it the other way around Fred would say no to attack HC because he would already be at war with JC.
leif erikson said:
How many do we have? It would be nice to have one gren in the Cuzco stack for stack defense. The stack headed for Cuzco could move via Indian land so that one of the cannons could be upgraded to artillery (use the method of moving 2 steps and then upgrading before the last movement point is gone). Cuzco is on a hill and has a longbow with multiple promotions so it would be nice to have an artillery unit to take him out.
leif erikson said:Certainly should change to State Property and convert the Towns to Workshops asap. WW should disappear when Lizzie goes away!
Yes, please do this now!
leif erikson said:
Going for RR is an interesting idea. I think the railroads will come too late to really matter in this game. When we convert Beijing to a production city the total science rate (including Asoka) will drop to around 2/3 of what it is now so RR would be around 30 turns away and adding the turns it takes to lay the rails we should be very close to the finish of the game.
leif erikson said:
Yes, we need those to ferry our troops to Sparta and Tiwanaku. One of them can be built before the work boats because there is still 6 turns until London comes out of anarchy. So maybe build galleon - wb - wb - galleon - artillery - artillery - ....
We currently have three Grenadiers, all located near Athens. There are 2 LB's and 5 Archers in Beijing. The only other consideration is whether we give some of these to Asoka for his use in going south? This may be more efficient as it will ensure he can defend what he takes and keeps units moving with us.
There is 1385 Gold available amongst the other civs, including 505 with Asoka. In some cases, like HC, perhaps we should simply demand his as tribute given our superior power rating and then declare anyway? I think we can get most, if not all, of this gold for upgrades.
Actually not too worried about Artillery stacks versus HC and Alex, they don't have much that could dent them. Fred and, perhaps JC, are another story but they are a ways off. I am trying to think ahead to what we should have ready before we go there. Given the number of cities they have and the rapid increases in WW we have experienced, perhaps we should work in Globe before we go? This would free up all those Archer and LB units that we can upgrade to Grens and Rifles Once upgraded, those units would cost 720 hammers (actually 360 due to 100% with Heroic Epic) while Globe costs us 300 hammers, so it is close on whether to build new units or Globe? It is starting to look to me as though this may be a good investment to guarantee a solid flow of replacement units to the "front".
At 150 hammers each (75 really), perhaps we should just keep building Artillery and accept whatever losses occur and simply replace them. Only problem here being distances and movement times.
EDIT - Just checked and found Asoka has only two workers!
Should we plan to invest in any and gift them to him or do we think he will capture enough?
Frederiksberg
Deity
leif erikson said:
Demanding tribute is a good idea. And we may also be able to sell a few techs allthough some care must be taken not to strenghten other civs too much in case we need to raze an overseas city.
leif erikson said:
Only thing is that we don't have the money for upgrading rigth now. I think we can wait a while with this decision and use the culture slider to counter WW. Globe takes 3 turns to complete and we do get 50% production bonus for building a wonder so it can easily be slipped in somewhere.
leif erikson said:EDIT - Just checked and found Asoka has only two workers!
Should we plan to invest in any and gift them to him or do we think he will capture enough?
We may need to build some workers later and since we can improve Asokas lands ourselves it's only an advantage that he only has few workers because you never know if he will go and undo what we have done.
ShannonCT
Deity
I think demanding tribute prevents a war declaration for 10 turns, right? In that case, we can't demand tribute from HC.
Frederiksberg
Deity
ShannonCT said:
Never heard of this. Could it be a new BtS feature only?
Just went back to a test game save and tried it. Demanded tribute of Izzie, received 140 Gold and then turned around and declared in the same turn.
Is it a BtS feature? I'd better pay attention to that!!
ShannonCT
Deity
Just went back to a test game save and tried it. Demanded tribute of Izzie, received 140 Gold and then turned around and declared in the same turn.
Is it a BtS feature? I'd better pay attention to that!!
OK, I guess it's not a Vanilla feature. It's definitely in BtS.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I've heard of it or something close to it. I think it was added in the Warlords version.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Updated the Gameplan to include the new comments:
Eliminating Lizzy is an important milestone and it probably means that we won't be fighting any units that are stronger than rifles and grens.
I'm in favor of revolting to State Property now as suggested by CP. This should be accompanied by a conversion of our towns and villages to work shops. Switch now.
Bribing Fred and Julius to war sounds good too. We can get 180 Gold from Louis for Liberalism, that is a Cannon upgrade. Mansa and Hattie both have 60 Gold and we have a few obsolete techs that they could get.
2. I think we should kick off the wars with Fred versus HC and Julius versus Fred asap, as long as having Fred declare on HC will not affect whether Julius will declare on Fred?
I think we should consider building 1-2 work boats for London to prevent starvation here when it comes out of anarchy. We have 42% of pop on our continent right now, but this percentage will most likely go down during the war if nothing is done to prevent it.
build galleon - wb - wb - galleon - artillery - artillery - . (worker or 2 at some point to help improve Asoka lands)
How about splitting our stack at Athens? In order to increase the speed of capture we need to attack in multiple places simultaneously. We already have a plan for attacking Sparta using galleons so maybe we should leave some of our wounded units in Athens for later pick up and move the healed ones in a stack headed for Cuzco (via Indian land so that some units can be upgraded).
Sparta Plan: We can start moving part of our stack toward Cuzco and declare next turn. I wonder if we can also send about half of our big stack to Sparta. Greece should be quite weak right now. Alex doesn't have Gunpowder yet so a few artillery with escort should be able to kill the defenders. Frigates can move toward Sparta next turn after Lizzy is gone. The stack headed for Cuzco could move via Indian land so that one of the cannons could be upgraded to artillery (use the method of moving 2 steps and then upgrading before the last movement point is gone). Cuzco is on a hill and has a longbow with multiple promotions so it would be nice to have an artillery unit to take him out.
Sparta Plan by Sea: I think we should send a couple of our archers to London now. Gift them to Asoka, and he's likely to put three units on his galleon and sail them toward Sparta if we declare on Alex. We can declare on Alex as soon as our frigates are ready to bombard. Follow the frigates with a couple galleons full of our artillery/grens picked up in Athens. If we can get there one turn before Asoka's galleon, we can kill the defenders and let Asoka take the city. Rinse and repeat on Tiwanaku.
Techs: We can get Constitution from Cathy right now. Then onto Biology. (Saving the GS for now.) Astronomy is already known by some on the other continent, so we should sell it to Cyrus for 190 gold and/or use to start some wars over there again.
Gold: There is 1385 Gold available amongst the other civs, including 505 with Asoka. In some cases, like HC, perhaps we should simply demand his as tribute given our superior power rating and then declare anyway? I think we can get most, if not all, of this gold for upgrades.
Only thing is that we don't have the money for upgrading rigth now. I think we can wait a while with this decision and use the culture slider to counter WW. Globe takes 3 turns to complete and we do get 50% production bonus for building a wonder so it can easily be slipped in somewhere.
(Still plan on playing tomorrow night, had some time before leaving for the softball game.)
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I'm not sure there is enough time for it either. To even have a chance of getting any benefits from RR we'd need to research it now. A few well placed galleons and if the German vrs Roman war is a stalemate on cities but a troop killer we might be able to loop through Roman lands first and then finish up with a closer to home Germany. But that is just a little too far ahead to predict.
An alternative may be to build several more Galleons and use them along Asoka's east coast to ferry units south to JC's land area. Not sure that will all work out. In testing, I can recall losing few units, perhaps one Artillery for every two cities, and so it wasn't much of a problem. Keeping units flowing south should keep replacements available.
Frederiksberg
Deity
DJMGator13 said:
It could also be zero workers. Only build one if you feel that there are too few to make the improvements we (Asoka) need. Useful worker tasks could be improving resources (wine, corn, etc.), chopping forests (if health cap allows), and building work shops (I notice that Asoka has adopted State Property as well so work shops on grassland or plains will be VERY good and the same goes for water mills e.g. on the plains around York, Washington and Delhi).
DJMGator13 said:
Note, that we need also to convert one plains hill mine to a wind mill in order to reach a food equilibrium at size 17 with 15 health.
Like the plan. Do have concerns about this aspect . . .
"Techs: We can get Constitution from Cathy right now. Then onto Biology. Have we decided not to research Rocketry? I thought testing showed population likely to be a minor issue. (Saving the GS for now.) Astronomy is already known by some on the other continent, so we should sell it to Cyrus for 190 gold and/or use to start some wars over there again." If we get Constitution, will we be able to start wars with that the following turn (thus allowing Astronomy-for-gold trade)?
"Techs: We can get Constitution from Cathy right now. Then onto Biology. Have we decided not to research Rocketry? I thought testing showed population likely to be a minor issue. (Saving the GS for now.) Astronomy is already known by some on the other continent, so we should sell it to Cyrus for 190 gold and/or use to start some wars over there again." If we get Constitution, will we be able to start wars with that the following turn (thus allowing Astronomy-for-gold trade)?
Mad Professor
Deity
I too thought we decided population was a minor issue, though my reading the last few days has been rather quick and occasional. I do remember a comment someone made about the possibility of population shrinkage on our continent as a result of war. Perhaps that was it.
Anyhow, generally, the plan looks good to me too.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Cactus Pete said:
I think I have a slight preference for Rocketry also now that it seems that we can handle the pop limit with ordinary means like helping Asoka improve the land around his cities to stop starvation and start growth.
Cactus Pete said:
Astronomy is also a military tech and from that perspective it would be better to sell/bribe with Constitution whenever possible.
Concur that Rocketry is the way to go. Once it is discovered, we should be able to tell if we'll need Biology.
Let's hold Astronomy where we can.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Okay, I've updated my playing notes for the plain hill, caution on the worker build, and staying with Rocketry as research goal (holding Astro).
I'm going to start playing. Should be able to get a few turns in tonight.
I'm going to start playing. Should be able to get a few turns in tonight.
Good luck!
Mad Professor
Deity
Similar threads
