BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
This begins to sound good.
Is it worth to revolt to caste? i can run surely 9 specs, maybe 10 while stayin' in Emanc. or revolt to slavery.
What about slavery? just for 1 turn.
SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Is it worth to revolt to caste? i can run surely 9 specs, maybe 10 while stayin' in Emanc. or revolt to slavery.
What about slavery? just for 1 turn.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
double post, sorry
I think we'll keep every city.
A GP can be useful only for Rhodes, which is far away from the main fights.
IMHO we can stop with GP after Ulundi's one.
Remember that the UN will be ready in 9 turns, less with a GA.
The SG vote will come after 1 turn, the first resolution after 4 or 5.
Our opponent will be Pericles and we'll have all the votes of our Vassals. meaning all the AIs but Pericles.
So we can win there or next election if our wonders have to complete.
Better discuss it deeply after my TS.
We can start the Roman war in 4 turns, max 5 from now.
7 turns to vassallize and take the 3 wonder cities, we can take also Thebes with the SM before then.
I think we'll keep every city.
A GP can be useful only for Rhodes, which is far away from the main fights.
IMHO we can stop with GP after Ulundi's one.
Remember that the UN will be ready in 9 turns, less with a GA.
The SG vote will come after 1 turn, the first resolution after 4 or 5.
Our opponent will be Pericles and we'll have all the votes of our Vassals. meaning all the AIs but Pericles.
So we can win there or next election if our wonders have to complete.
Better discuss it deeply after my TS.
We can start the Roman war in 4 turns, max 5 from now.
7 turns to vassallize and take the 3 wonder cities, we can take also Thebes with the SM before then.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
We need to decide:
- Civics (NH, draft, back to Bureau in 1-2 turns)
- Civics 2: Caste for 2-4 turns then back to Emanc.
- Civics 3: FR after the Gman from Ulundi?
- Stay on Rail or switch to Fascism then back to Rail
- OK vassal Charlie
- OK let him Vienne
- OK Roman war ASAP? (4-5 turns) of course if Charlie capitulates now
- GA with our 3rd GE+the Gman from Ulundi?
- Forget Plastics? (this can be delayed)
For MM and war, let me alone, you know my skills
.
With those decisions clear, possibly not only me and WT, i can play tomorrow morning (9-10 hours from now).
If i can't gather enough opinions, i'll wait 'til night (21-22 h from now).
Goood night
- Civics (NH, draft, back to Bureau in 1-2 turns)
- Civics 2: Caste for 2-4 turns then back to Emanc.
- Civics 3: FR after the Gman from Ulundi?
- Stay on Rail or switch to Fascism then back to Rail
- OK vassal Charlie
- OK let him Vienne
- OK Roman war ASAP? (4-5 turns) of course if Charlie capitulates now
- GA with our 3rd GE+the Gman from Ulundi?
- Forget Plastics? (this can be delayed)
For MM and war, let me alone, you know my skills
.With those decisions clear, possibly not only me and WT, i can play tomorrow morning (9-10 hours from now).
If i can't gather enough opinions, i'll wait 'til night (21-22 h from now).
Goood night
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
When you start the GA, make sure it's the 2 that you selected and not some random Gpeople the AI picks. I don't know the mechanics of GA with more than 2 GPeople.
I'm for switching to NH and/or Slavery for some draft/whip. Just remember to check that the GPeople alotted aren't changed when you switch between them to keep the pool as we wanted them to be.
Vassal Charlie, we have no need of his other cities.
I'm on the fence about the Roman war now. If our troops are healthy and we have 4-5 turns to kill before we can upgrade to infantries, why not spend them and see if we can capitulate Greece? and ask Rome to join in?
I'm for switching to NH and/or Slavery for some draft/whip. Just remember to check that the GPeople alotted aren't changed when you switch between them to keep the pool as we wanted them to be.
Vassal Charlie, we have no need of his other cities.
I'm on the fence about the Roman war now. If our troops are healthy and we have 4-5 turns to kill before we can upgrade to infantries, why not spend them and see if we can capitulate Greece? and ask Rome to join in?
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Sorry I haven't been much help - I'm looking for somewhere to live.
I've always been leaning toward fascism first for wonder purposes, but honestly, a rail highway and a rushed MG are also great. Then again paratroopers would rock..oh, no flight. Disregard. So i go to the CiV wonders page, and it doesn't have Mt Rushmore? WTH? I just wanted to check the
required to estimate the time it'd take, but it's not there. It's still a wonder, right?
Vassalise Charlie now - and who cares about Vienne. We can't really hit Greece now, as we have to know if we need his holy city, ie we get a GP. On that point, how are we going to take it if we do get a GP? By land or sea?
A GA should speed things up nicely.Are we all sure that the GA uses up the GMen in the same city first. I've never actually tested it. As you say, the plastics thing can wait.
Whip/draft for sure. Pop won't be our problem. As for FR, is it worth it? Do you want it for the 10%? 20ish turns with 10% saves 2 turnsish, which is good, but again perhaps it all depends on which GMan pops.
I've always been leaning toward fascism first for wonder purposes, but honestly, a rail highway and a rushed MG are also great. Then again paratroopers would rock..oh, no flight. Disregard. So i go to the CiV wonders page, and it doesn't have Mt Rushmore? WTH? I just wanted to check the
required to estimate the time it'd take, but it's not there. It's still a wonder, right?Vassalise Charlie now - and who cares about Vienne. We can't really hit Greece now, as we have to know if we need his holy city, ie we get a GP. On that point, how are we going to take it if we do get a GP? By land or sea?
A GA should speed things up nicely.Are we all sure that the GA uses up the GMen in the same city first. I've never actually tested it. As you say, the plastics thing can wait.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Away from home and can't check the save. The quick victory plan sounds good to me though. Agree with Berserks that we should be very careful to burn only the right Gmen on the golden age. I don't know how the game chooses... someone should test this if possible IMHO. We've got the cash and tech to upgrade to infantry right away though, so the war should go as speedily as possible. Vassal Charlie now -- with or without Vienne (we don't need it). Be careful of Bibracte and Aachen though, as Bibracte still appears to be getting some culture pressure from Camulodunum and Aachen will get culture pressure from Prague. (Station some cavalry in each city to bring chances of revolt down.) I'd be ready to take Rhodes by sea in case we get a prophet (there should be two galleons over there near Navajo somewhere). The cities we need are as follows:
ROME:
- Rome (Pyramids, Chichen Itza)
- Cumae (Statue of Liberty)
- Antium (Swedagon Paya, Great Library)
GREECE:
- Thebes (Spiral Minaret)
- Rhodes? (?Islamic Holy City but needs Shrine)
Good Luck BLub!
ROME:
- Rome (Pyramids, Chichen Itza)
- Cumae (Statue of Liberty)
- Antium (Swedagon Paya, Great Library)
GREECE:
- Thebes (Spiral Minaret)
- Rhodes? (?Islamic Holy City but needs Shrine)
Good Luck BLub!
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
Please do not waste 2 great people on a golden age. The 3rd GE is to build a wonder. If we pop a 4th, then we will have 2 for corps and 2 for 3GD. He is not an idle GMan picking his noes waiting for a buddy.
Here is what we can use potential great people for:
GE: Rush 3GD
GS: Found another corp
GP: Build shrine in Rhodes
If we pop a GA or a GM out of Ulundi, then we can talk about how to burn him with the most benefit.
Here is what we can use potential great people for:
GE: Rush 3GD
GS: Found another corp
GP: Build shrine in Rhodes
If we pop a GA or a GM out of Ulundi, then we can talk about how to burn him with the most benefit.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
If we follow the Industrialism > Plastics path we can have Engineering build an Industrial Park after Industrialism to run more engineers.
Engineering should switch to 3 engineers right now. A Factory (3 turns) should be added to the front of the production queue in Engineering as it will pay for itself. With the factory, the Pentagon will finish 7 turns later (no loss of time). The only other thing that Engineering needs to build is a hospital which could be done before or after the Pentagon depending on the timing of the Red Cross.
After it is finished building, Engineering only needs to run specialists. At this point, we should get some workers up there to build a few farms to run more engineers.
Engineering should switch to 3 engineers right now. A Factory (3 turns) should be added to the front of the production queue in Engineering as it will pay for itself. With the factory, the Pentagon will finish 7 turns later (no loss of time). The only other thing that Engineering needs to build is a hospital which could be done before or after the Pentagon depending on the timing of the Red Cross.
After it is finished building, Engineering only needs to run specialists. At this point, we should get some workers up there to build a few farms to run more engineers.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Mesix, the path to plastics is too long and we're not guaranteed to have 1 more GE.
If we launch a GAge everything will be accelerated and we can win right after Rocketry, maybe before if it's worth.
Plastics is a gamble: we need 1 more GE and even with him the 3GD will need some turn to be completed.
As i already explained, the 2 more wonders (3GD + SE) are a gamble, we need also 1 more GS.
The path to Rocketry is ways shorter, and we're guaranteed to found Aluminum.
Don't worry for the Gmen which will start the GA: i'll move the GE from 5th to Ulundi and he arrives there in time to be stacked with our next Gman.
If you stack 2 (or more) Gmen, you're sure they will launch the GA, no other Gmen.
I already and often used this trick.
The 4-5 turns to begin the Roman war are needed to heal upgrade and move troops, not else.
If we launch a GAge everything will be accelerated and we can win right after Rocketry, maybe before if it's worth.
Plastics is a gamble: we need 1 more GE and even with him the 3GD will need some turn to be completed.
As i already explained, the 2 more wonders (3GD + SE) are a gamble, we need also 1 more GS.
The path to Rocketry is ways shorter, and we're guaranteed to found Aluminum.
Don't worry for the Gmen which will start the GA: i'll move the GE from 5th to Ulundi and he arrives there in time to be stacked with our next Gman.
If you stack 2 (or more) Gmen, you're sure they will launch the GA, no other Gmen.
I already and often used this trick.
The 4-5 turns to begin the Roman war are needed to heal upgrade and move troops, not else.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
Plastics INSTEAD of Rocketry = 1 more wonder for 3 more turns!!!
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
We need 2 GEs for that wonder, and they're not enough: at least 2 or 3 turns more to complete, trust me, i build in all my games (SR, SC or time). Those 5-6 turns make the wonder useless.
Please take a look to my post where i show the ratios.
Goin' to play now, sorry, but the other members are on my side.
I hope we're right.
Wish me good luck!
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Short report:
First i apologize, but i extended to 7 full turns instead of 6. Sorry
edit: no, i played 6 full turns and only some shoot of the 7th
I followed the plan, spent over an hour in the inherited turn to MM and better evaluate our decisions.
You can see them in the autolog
- Cumae (with SoL) will fall next turn
- Rome is bombarded almost to 0, it will fall in 2 turns
- We can build all our corps HQs next turn, with combustion, refrigeration is already in.
I razed a Roman city North of Lahore in a successful amphibious attack.
The Secretary General vote is already happened.
Red Cross is 9 turns away.
MtRushmore is built
Npark is 2 turns away
Wall Street is 1 turn away, thanks to my forge
All the self-built World Wonders are in.
The GAge rocks!
the save
First i apologize, but i extended to 7 full turns instead of 6. Sorry
edit: no, i played 6 full turns and only some shoot of the 7th
I followed the plan, spent over an hour in the inherited turn to MM and better evaluate our decisions.
You can see them in the autolog
Spoiler :
- Rome is bombarded almost to 0, it will fall in 2 turns
- We can build all our corps HQs next turn, with combustion, refrigeration is already in.
I razed a Roman city North of Lahore in a successful amphibious attack.
The Secretary General vote is already happened.
Red Cross is 9 turns away.
MtRushmore is built
Npark is 2 turns away
Wall Street is 1 turn away, thanks to my forge
All the self-built World Wonders are in.
The GAge rocks!
the save
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I made large use of Airships, but they are not listed in the autolog.
Some stats:
units lost attacking: 3
units killed attacking: 29
units killed defending: 2
units lost defending: 0
I spare you the in-game log.
This should be new from BtS: MGs can intercept aircrafts
Be aware of the "Xcity is rightfully asking to join..." they come 2-4 times every turn
Keep attention also on the UN votes... we already lose one SG for a wrong vote... maybe someone remember that?
I well defended Agra, and was lucky that AC launched his (poor) SoD after it.
After softened with airships, i destroyed it! The flanck attack is deadly!
If we're lucky enough, the vote can come right after the conquest of Antium and AC's capitulation.
I suppose we can win even without the RC in.
Our Wonder score is now 210, but with the 5 corps and WS it will raise to 240 next turn, 245 in 2t.
If we can win on turn 263 with 5 Roman wonders, we'll go at 270.
But let's discuss this later.
Some expert on the Diplo timing, to better discuss the possibilities?
Some stats:
units lost attacking: 3
units killed attacking: 29
units killed defending: 2
units lost defending: 0
I spare you the in-game log.
This should be new from BtS: MGs can intercept aircrafts
Be aware of the "Xcity is rightfully asking to join..." they come 2-4 times every turn
Keep attention also on the UN votes... we already lose one SG for a wrong vote... maybe someone remember that?
I well defended Agra, and was lucky that AC launched his (poor) SoD after it.
After softened with airships, i destroyed it! The flanck attack is deadly!
If we're lucky enough, the vote can come right after the conquest of Antium and AC's capitulation.
I suppose we can win even without the RC in.
Our Wonder score is now 210, but with the 5 corps and WS it will raise to 240 next turn, 245 in 2t.
If we can win on turn 263 with 5 Roman wonders, we'll go at 270.
But let's discuss this later.
Some expert on the Diplo timing, to better discuss the possibilities?
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Sounds good, Blubmuz. Can't wait to have a look at your work. Only 1 GMan popped, right, the GS? What's the status of future GMen?
Looks like the goal is to end the game in exactly 8 turns. If properly managed, RedCross can be out in 8. This city is cutting it close so we can't afford to work the wrong tiles for even 1 turn. Currently, the worked tiles are wrong.
Rocketry should be done in 7 turns which allows us to do the corporations on turn 7.
Can we finish conquest in 7? Then press enter to win in 8 turns, the turn RC finishes.
Rocketry should be done in 7 turns which allows us to do the corporations on turn 7.
Can we finish conquest in 7? Then press enter to win in 8 turns, the turn RC finishes.
Maybe we should plan attacks on other Greek cities. What if he won't capitulate after taking only Thebes? What about an attack on Rhodes. I see we've made no effort to plan this attack. Delhi is somewhat likely to get a GProphet in 2 turns. (if properly managed...again, run more priests). We could still get that shrine.
I notice Caesar is already interested in talking, tho not capitulate of course; We didn't take any cities yet. What's the rule on that? Are we sure Perc will not "refuse to talk" when we want him to capitulate? Maybe we need to start the Perc war now.
Seems like everyone else would talk pretty quickly.
Once again we've rushed a bit from posting a plan to playing the TS. Balth kindly posted the final cities we need to capture, and I was still working out our attack plan. I try to check this board a couple times a day, but for the past few TS, I've not been able to make one comment between the final plan and the play. Hospitals could've been built faster so RC is not so late. No plan for specialists was laid out either. Delhi should have popped one by now.
And plan didn't include length. I thought a shorter TS, like 3-4 turns instead of 6...instead it was 8 turns! This is how things like Rhodes get overlooked. We plan for a few turns, then ramble on for 8 turns losing focus an forgetting things, like Gmen, hospitals, Rhodes, etc. And we make bad builds, like lh, factories...with only 8 turns left in the game, how can a factory pay off?
I notice Caesar is already interested in talking, tho not capitulate of course; We didn't take any cities yet. What's the rule on that? Are we sure Perc will not "refuse to talk" when we want him to capitulate? Maybe we need to start the Perc war now.
Seems like everyone else would talk pretty quickly.
Once again we've rushed a bit from posting a plan to playing the TS. Balth kindly posted the final cities we need to capture, and I was still working out our attack plan. I try to check this board a couple times a day, but for the past few TS, I've not been able to make one comment between the final plan and the play. Hospitals could've been built faster so RC is not so late. No plan for specialists was laid out either. Delhi should have popped one by now.
And plan didn't include length. I thought a shorter TS, like 3-4 turns instead of 6...instead it was 8 turns! This is how things like Rhodes get overlooked. We plan for a few turns, then ramble on for 8 turns losing focus an forgetting things, like Gmen, hospitals, Rhodes, etc. And we make bad builds, like lh, factories...with only 8 turns left in the game, how can a factory pay off?
To get the GProphet to Rhodes, we'll probably need to get a few rails laid down. It's gonna be close.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
The factory was supposed to go into Engineering before the pentagon. That way there was no lost time and we get the benefit from it.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
As i posted, i played for 6 full turns and some fight in the 7th.
We took a Roman city, i razed it 'cause it was very close to Lahore.
(no time lost on that, i attacked amphibious).
I started the factory, but don't put a single hammer on it.
Some buiding are just to answer to "what we build in this city" i can have choose wealth, but no hammer wasted.
I'm afraid RC was a misclick: i wish to build where is started now, but misclicked to MtRush sorry. I even put a sign there, it was a "perfect" misclick, sorry.
I think win in 8 can be done Diplo, Pericles have a good army, it will be not easy to go after him.
We can probably take the SM city, not Rhodes, not obtain his capitulation in 8 turns.
But we can try and see.
The troops now in positions are enough to take Rome in 2t and safely keep it. Then we need the cannons of our Cumae stack and the excess infantry from Rome to take Antium in 4 turns.
Next turn we should see the results (but a contribution of an expert in Diplo will be appreciated) of the SG vote, and surely win.
When Cumae is about to fall, we can move some troops close to Thebes, to take it in 2t. (the stack in Agra and the healed stack from Rome).
If a diplo vote comes there, we can win at turn 262-263.
We can try to see if revolt to slavery can give us the RC in time.
This can be in 5 from now
Gmen are perfect: if we want Dehli first, just add another specialist, if we want Eng, just remove the priest from Dehli or add another eng in eng.
After it, we can revolt to FR, not for the 10% res, but mainly for the culture bonus in the new continent.
I tied the GG from fascism to a pike and there's a 2nd one on his way to embark.
I suppose we can stop building units in our core and former zulu cities, they will never arrive to the front.
We took a Roman city, i razed it 'cause it was very close to Lahore.
(no time lost on that, i attacked amphibious).
I started the factory, but don't put a single hammer on it.
Some buiding are just to answer to "what we build in this city" i can have choose wealth, but no hammer wasted.
I'm afraid RC was a misclick: i wish to build where is started now, but misclicked to MtRush sorry
. I even put a sign there, it was a "perfect" misclick, sorry.I think win in 8 can be done Diplo, Pericles have a good army, it will be not easy to go after him.
We can probably take the SM city, not Rhodes, not obtain his capitulation in 8 turns.
But we can try and see.
The troops now in positions are enough to take Rome in 2t and safely keep it. Then we need the cannons of our Cumae stack and the excess infantry from Rome to take Antium in 4 turns.
Next turn we should see the results (but a contribution of an expert in Diplo will be appreciated) of the SG vote, and surely win.
When Cumae is about to fall, we can move some troops close to Thebes, to take it in 2t. (the stack in Agra and the healed stack from Rome).
If a diplo vote comes there, we can win at turn 262-263.
We can try to see if revolt to slavery can give us the RC in time.
This can be in 5 from now
Gmen are perfect: if we want Dehli first, just add another specialist, if we want Eng, just remove the priest from Dehli or add another eng in eng.
After it, we can revolt to FR, not for the 10% res, but mainly for the culture bonus in the new continent.
I tied the GG from fascism to a pike and there's a 2nd one on his way to embark.
I suppose we can stop building units in our core and former zulu cities, they will never arrive to the front.
I think you played 8 full turns and part of 9. t250 - t258 is 9 turns. Not that it matters, much, but it just shows how our TS's tend to drift on longer than the plan. Much longer in this case, cus I was only thinking ahead 4 turns. Didn't think we'd be at war or start the GA until next TS.
Example of playing beyond the PPP:
I see you chose Refrig over Combustion. An excellent choice, but this was not discussed at all. In fact, casual lists of the techs we eventually need usually showed Refrigeration last. Once it came time for the combustion/refrig debate, it's pretty obvious that refrigeration was the correct choice. But the point is, no discussion. It was supposed to be out of the scope for this TS.
Similar threads
