SGOTM 08 - One Short Straw

[mdy]

I agree with sending out a pair of caravels to contact the AI`s, but we can do without scouts if we trade worldmaps. We should be able to get a couple of techs from the AI: feudalism,theology, and maybe drama/engineering/guilds depending on how advanced they are. If we gift them the right techs we may be able to trade for more along the democracy/rifling routes later. If we build the Heroic Epic in Ulundi before we start building units there we should have built up enough units to take on Jao at around the same time we discover astronomy so we can delay any decisions on war with Jao till then.


Once we have the spare production capacity I think we should found a marble/cow/clam/floodplains city on the peninsular, as well as a fish/iron/furs one (maybe we can build 2 settlers in the capital?)

I think Llib_rm should take the next turnset if he can.

 

[llib_rm]

I think Llib_rm should take the next turnset if he can.

OK, I will post a plan this weekend.

 

[TDK]

OK, I will post a plan this weekend.

Very good.

If we get Oxford and Optics in 4 turns, the capital should be free to launch a caravel very quickly. I would chop/whip another caravel from Ondini ASAP, sailing in the opposite direction.
I think it might be worth it to whip a Courthouse in Stone City before we switch away from Slavery.
I agree with mdy's settlement plans.

Should we send our army to Kushans and the other southern barb city, sending a Galley as well? Or save it for Portugal/India/?? I'm probably more inclined to go for the latter.

 

[mdy]

I think building an army for the other continent/Jao and founding 2 more cities in the peninsular are more important than taking Kuskans.

I agree with whipping a courthouse in stone city.

 

[ungy]

I tried unsucessfully to get the HOF mode working--I was able to get another account running but for some reason I couldn't get the downloads to work.
I'll try it again once I let my frustration ease a bit.

A few comments on the game:

We definately want to go pretty deep into the tech tree. Most of the modern techs have a wonder and radio and mass media have 3. Maybe we skip the artillery-rocketry bit.
But in any case at this point we are in a tech race vs. time--so whether to build units to take out an AI or infra depends on how valuable the AI lands are.
As for building wonders--we only need to build the ones that'll be worth the investment--at this stage the AI will do it for us.

We can get a very fast conquest late as I'm sure our power will be overwhelming and the AI will cap once we take a few cities.

Since we'll have an abundance of tech to give away, I think we can trade with the AI even keeping a religion--we can gift them to +4 and most of the AI will trade with different religion--we just have to be careful if the AI are warring then the -4 traded with enemies + religion might knock us out of a few.
Have we gotten any of the GG messages?

After astro I'm thinking we might go demo and run emancipation+build SOL.

 

[llib_rm]

Better late than never...

The plan:

Play till capital GP comes in 7 turns then break for new plan.

Go heavy on the whip once golden era ends.

Civics:
No change

Research
Machinery->Compass->Optics

Movement:
Troops near Ondini -> Ulundi; Ulundi Chariot to Ondini

Upgrade CR axes to Mace

Workers:
Cottage spam Iron & Canal cities

Infrastructure:
Captital: Oxford->?
Mine: LH->CH
Stone: Lib->CH
Marble: ?? abandon Missionary->Moai
Canal: Forge->Barrack
Ulundi: CH->Barrack
Nobama: CH->LH or Barrack
Iron: LH->?
Nongomi: CH->Forge
Ondini WB->Granary

 

[TDK]

I thought the consensus was that we switch away from Slavery/OR to Caste System and Free Religion/Pacifism in 3 turns.
I would be very much against staying in Slavery and even more against whipping our cities.

You are not saying what you plan on doing with our Great Merchant and what you plan to do in regards to other things we discuss here, such as Settlement, contacting the others etc.

Optics is 4 turns if we go max science, so what is your plan after that. Or are you thinking of delaying research to after Oxford? Then we might as well go to 0%.

Upgrade CR axes to Mace

I don't like upgrading to Maces before we really need to.

Marble: ?? abandon Missionary->Moai

Why abandon the Missionary? We need one for Portugal.

Stone: Lib->CH

Mdy and I proposed that we whip a Courthouse there first.

Captital: Oxford->?

As I said, a Caravel would be nice there, mdy suggested Six Chapel.

TDK

 

[mdy]

I think it would be worth going to 0% science until Oxford is in. Normally I don`t upgrade axes either but I think our city raider 3 axes might be worth upgrading. After we have Oxford I favour building: settler(for iron/fur/fish)-caravel-harbor-courthouse-settler(maybe for the island with fish north of the capital, the trade routes should make it profitable and it would give us +1 food with Sid Shusi). The settler for cow/marble/clam/floodplains could be built in Nobama before the courthouse.

I think our religion will probably spread to Portugal before we can get a missionary there. Once it does Jao should spread it for us.

I agree with switching civics. Slavery is now counter productive in most of our cities.

Mine city dosn`t really need a courthouse at the moment. I suggest building units there once the lighthouse is in. I would also skip the courthouse and build barracks-Heroic Epic in Ulundi.

Iron city could use a temple and a market to boost the happy cap.

Canal city is more of a commerce city than a production city-a market may be more useful than a barracks.

 

[TDK]

I think our religion will probably spread to Portugal before we can get a missionary there. Once it does Jao should spread it for us.

We are going to stay in OR for 3 turns anyway, so why not finish it? Conf has been very slow in spreading to Portugal and should it spread in a few turns, we can just divert the missionary to one of the caravels.

Mine city dosn`t really need a courthouse at the moment. I suggest building units there once the lighthouse is in. I would also skip the courthouse and build barracks-Heroic Epic in Ulundi.

Iron city could use a temple and a market to boost the happy cap.

Canal city is more of a commerce city than a production city-a market may be more useful than a barracks.

Agreed.

[Edit:] We can irrigate our Rice and Wheat with a few farms.

TDK

 

[mdy]

Woud we be better of cottaging the tiles that would be needed to irrigate the rice? I don`t think the wheat can be irrigated.

 

[TDK]

Woud we be better of cottaging the tiles that would be needed to irrigate the rice? I don`t think the wheat can be irrigated.

We would have to farm one tile to irrigate the Rice, so we gain 2 food instead of a cottage. That's an extra specialist... I don't know.

Can't we irrigate the Wheat by farming south of the river and from there the forest to the north-east.

 

[mdy]

I don`t think you can spread irrigation diagonally. Irrigating the rice might be worthwhile though, espesially after biology.

 

[TDK]

I don`t think you can spread irrigation diagonally.

I think you can, the Rice in Ulundi seems to be irrigated through the city.

 

[Diamondeye]

Irrigation spreads diagonally aswell.

 

[llib_rm]

The REVISED plan:

Play till capital GP comes in 7 turns then break for new plan.

Civics:
Change to Caste FR once Oxford is in.

Research
(0% till Oxford) Machinery->Compass->Optics

Movement:
Troops near Ondini -> Kushcan; Ulundi Chariot to Ondini; Settle Merchant

Upgrade CR axes to Mace

Workers:
Cottage spam Iron & Canal cities. Irrigate Rice by canal city, chop caravel in Ondini

Infrastructure:
Captital: Oxford->Six Chap->caravel->Six Chap
Mine: LH->Barracks->HE
Stone: CH(Whip)->Lib
Marble: complete Missionary->Moai
Canal: Forge->Market
Ulundi: CH->Barrack
Nobama: CH->LH or Barrack
Iron: LH->Temple->Market
Nongomi: CH->Forge
Ondini WB->Caravel->Granary


Attemp to get OB upon first contact. I will break if trades are available.

 

[TDK]

I like the plan.

Change to Caste FR once Oxford is in.

We only have 4 turns left of Golden Age, so make sure to revolt before that to spare us the anarchy, but after the missionary.

I'm wondering if it's worth it to switch to a Lighthouse in Nobama, it seems it's quite low on food.

TDK

 

[mdy]

If we are planning on attacking someone soon after astronomy I think a barracks might be more useful in Nobama. It would be best if Ulundi took over the mine shortly, so after the city has grown to size 10 it will only have relativly poor water tiles to work if it grows further.

I thought the consensus was to build the heroic epic in Ulundi not mine city?

 

[TDK]

I thought the consensus was to build the heroic epic in Ulundi not mine city?

Right, me to.

 

[llib_rm]

Here is the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm8/One_Short_Straw_SG008_AD0900_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Things went pretty much according to plan.

We received a Great Prophet, and I stopped. The capital has a caravel ready to launch. Ondini will have one chopped in 2-3 turns. The HE in Ulundi is due next turn. I started Astronomy even though it was not in the plan.

Shouldn't Ulundi build watermills/farms instead of cottages; it would be better for the HE, no?

 

[TDK]

Good play.

We can probably re-negotiate our Copper deal with Portugal to get 3 more gold/turn.

We should get our Galleys back behind our borders or we will start paying unit upkeep once our Caravels leave our borders.

We should work all the mines we can with Ulundi. I would shift a citizen in Nobamba from the Mine to the grassland Town that Canal City works now.
I still think a Lighthouse is a good investment in Nobamba and Ulundi.

We have an engineer assigned in Iron City and Ulundi.

Why are we building a Barracks in Stone City, it's a 1 hammer city?

Should we build a Settler somewhere?

TDK