SGOTM 08 - XTeam

[Frederiksberg]

The settler in Guimares should come two turns earlier than the one in Coimbra so they could both be picked up by the same galleon NE of Coimbra. Another Galleon could pick up the two other settlers from X-ville and Canalville - and perhaps an extra one from Ulundi if we fail to capture Satricum. Note that all these settler builds should be aborted if we get a Prophet in X-ville.

I don't think we need any MP's for the new cities - we only want to make sure that the settler survives long enough to found the city and we would want to found all 4-5 cities in the same turn. If one is captured later - no big deal since we only want the free Prophet. We could also see if Joao would take some of these cities off our hands - he might do this because he has so few cities.

 

[Frederiksberg]

What about the war plans. Do we need to collect the information and check for coherence?

1. Attack on Antium. 4 galleons with 9 cuirs and 4 cannons are sent to Antium. 3 cannons and 9 cuirs from homeland so one cannon must be picked up near Delhi or Calcutta. We may have to pick up some of our late arriving units NE of Coimbra rather than N of Lagos.
2. Attack on Cumae? Awaits how we handle the defense against the Arpinium stack. If the Roman SOD remains in Arpinium then what?
3. Destruction of Arpinium stack. Follow Cp's idea to draw the stack out in the open near Vijay and then attack with "hidden" cuirs and airships.
4. Defense of Hun/ Attack on Knossos. How do we divide our forces here? And how many cuirs do we send to the Roman war theatre?
5. Attack on Rome. What is size and composition of this force headed directly for Rome. It should include some cannons so that bombarding can start early.
6. Defense of Prague/Aachen. Do we draw some cuirs from Hun to help here?

 

[leif erikson]

Indeed. Nuremburg should maximize hammers. And I don't see much use in building another airship at this point. It's not going to be able to fly any useful sorties. Better to just build wealth there. Same with Prague when it comes out of revolt next turn. The Cuirs being built in Aachen and Bibracte right now should probably be their last. Remember that if we get a GM in X-ville (66% chance), research will be the bottleneck.

OK, I always like having a reserve in my pocket. But it sometimes ends up being bigger than I need.

Leif, remember to gift Nationalism this turn and gift eveything else next turn when war is declared.

Yes, except the Iron and Copper as Fred pointed out, unless we acquire more...

The settler in Guimares should come two turns earlier than the one in Coimbra so they could both be picked up by the same galleon NE of Coimbra. Another Galleon could pick up the two other settlers from X-ville and Canalville - and perhaps an extra one from Ulundi if we fail to capture Satricum. Note that all these settler builds should be aborted if we get a Prophet in X-ville.

I think I need to have the Galleons in the right places but will not be executing this during this turn set as it will end with the birth of the Great Leader in X-ville.

I will try to position Galleons to move Settlers from Ulundi, Lagos and Guimareas area (probably north and west, within one move of the Settler to board), unless SCT wants them somewhere else?

I don't think we need any MP's for the new cities - we only want to make sure that the settler survives long enough to found the city and we would want to found all 4-5 cities in the same turn. If one is captured later - no big deal since we only want the free Prophet. We could also see if Joao would take some of these cities off our hands - he might do this because he has so few cities.

OK, nice perspective. Gain the Great Prophet and then gift the cities away! Nice plan!
Wish I'd thought of it!

Got to run, check the war plan ideas upon return...

 

[ShannonCT]

Attack on Antium. 4 galleons with 9 cuirs and 4 cannons are sent to Antium. 3 cannons and 9 cuirs from homeland so one cannon must be picked up near Delhi or Calcutta. We may have to pick up some of our late arriving units NE of Coimbra rather than N of Lagos.

I dont know that we need that extra cannon. 3 should be enough to capture Antium in the next 11 turns.

Attack on Rome. What is size and composition of this force headed directly for Rome. It should include some cannons so that bombarding can start early.

Defense of Prague/Aachen. Do we draw some cuirs from Hun to help here?

Yes, at least a couple each of cannons, maces, and Cuirs should head for Rome.

New Cuirs from Bibracte and Aachen can help protect Prague.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I dont know that we need that extra cannon. 3 should be enough to capture Antium in the next 11 turns.

It's coming from the discussion on splitting the Antium stack into 4 small stacks with a cannon in each. If we don't need an extra cannon then we need an extra cuir and then we should only split into 3 stacks.

 

[leif erikson]

Satricum is a hill city, so if longbows have replaced the sole HA, then it may prove easier to take Sakae.

There is also the chance that we could get Setia, north of Gaul, in a peace deal?

Can we get our 3-move cuir in Calcutta to the mainland to heal, as it will probably be able to get back into the fray in time to attack Rome, without interfering with other plans?

Yes, he'll be there this turn.

Galleon headed to Ulundi to pick up settlers might check on northern islands to see if barbs have settled any of them. BTW, is capturing Yahoi in the plan? If that's a possibility, let's move the scout and see what's in there now.

Wouldn't at least a tile of those cities show already? I think there is time to sail by for a quick check.

Since Mediolarum and Circei are possible gold resources, the frigates could move in their direction to bombard.

I think we should open to the possibilty that we may need more Roman cities to maintain research, at least until we can get our cities into Wealth.

I dont know that we need that extra cannon. 3 should be enough to capture Antium in the next 11 turns.

It's coming from the discussion on splitting the Antium stack into 4 small stacks with a cannon in each. If we don't need an extra cannon then we need an extra cuir and then we should only split into 3 stacks.

I think we will have to use three stacks as there are only three tiles within a tile of Antium to land on, to its NE.

Those three cats in Antium with collateral damage promotions recommend we don't stack our units when attacking that city.

Although this warns against that action. More stacks will require more time to move to the city?

Yes, at least a couple each of cannons, maces, and Cuirs should head for Rome.

We currently have 11 Cannons with 3 more under production. I was planning on three Cannons, four Maces and a Cuirassier heading directly for Rome. The other five Cannons headed for Vijay and Cumae, plus whatever else presents itself around Vijay?

New Cuirs from Bibracte and Aachen can help protect Prague.

Pleased to see that SCT was right in that Pericles is indeed weak. The WE and 2 cats in Pharsalos will probably attack Hun. Suggest we keep the two wounded cuirs and the three cannons (which will have a hard time getting to the front in time to be of critical help) there to fend off the attack and then take out Knossos and Mycenae to gain some gold and perhaps make Conquest an earlier option. The three healthy cuirs we should send toward Ulm this turn and further east the next before declaring. That will give us reinforcements for Prague and defense against Pericle's wandering We and associated units, and will allow us to send a stack of maces and 2 cannons (with at least one cuir from the Hun area to join them) towards Rome as leif has suggested. It will facilitate this if the two newly captured workers move to the jungle tile 3N of Bombay next turn and road it the following turn, allowing the third mace to catch up.

Looking at this, I had considered that we might send two of the Cuirassier near Hun down towards Prague to intercept whatever Pericles might send that way. Sending three, imho, weakens the Hun area so that I would only be able to defend. The additional Cuir. should allow a limited offensive to try for Knossos and/or Mycenae, in search of Gold for research. Whatever happens, we must hold Hun!

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Looking at this, I had considered that we might send two of the Cuirassier near Hun down towards Prague to intercept whatever Pericles might send that way. Sending three, imho, weakens the Hun area so that I would only be able to defend. The additional Cuir. should allow a limited offensive to try for Knossos and/or Mycenae, in search of Gold for research. Whatever happens, we must hold Hun!" Okay, but would advise getting a stack of 3 maces and two cannons onto the jungle tile nearest Rome (as you suggested earlier) ASAP. You can see what happens with Greece's wandering units and the SOD before proceeding into Roman territory. Would not pre-position cuirs or a third cannon with them, because we might need all other readily available cuirs if our sucker play doesn't work and we have to take hits from the SOD.

Regarding the tactics for Antium: Stacks of four are not good. Four seems to often be a trigger number for siege weapon attack. If past experience is a guide, then one of our stacks would likely be attacked and probably eliminated by Augustus. On the other hand, a stack of three cuirs (including any with melee or seige promotions) will indeed be vulnerable, but if cats, pike(s) and/or WE(s) attack that stack (which should be kept 2 tiles from the city, so any attacking units are unable to heal immediately IBT), then that greatly weakens the city defenses and the rest of our units should be able to approach and take the city. If you are uncomfortable with this, then stack everything together as SCT suggests.

"Yes, he'll be there this turn." Anxious to see how you do that, as I don't think it has any movement left this turn.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looking at this, I had considered that we might send two of the Cuirassier near Hun down towards Prague to intercept whatever Pericles might send that way. Sending three, imho, weakens the Hun area so that I would only be able to defend. The additional Cuir. should allow a limited offensive to try for Knossos and/or Mycenae, in search of Gold for research. Whatever happens, we must hold Hun!

OK. I suppose that the smallest attack force that makes any sense is 1 cuir and one cannon if we go for Knossos or Mycenae. We need to get cultural defenses down before attacking.

 

[ShannonCT]

Regarding the tactics for Antium: Stacks of four are not good. Four seems to often be a trigger number for siege weapon attack. If past experience is a guide, then one of our stacks would likely be attacked and probably eliminated by Augustus. On the other hand, a stack of three cuirs (including any with melee or seige promotions) will indeed be vulnerable, but if cats, pike(s) and/or WE(s) attack that stack (which should be kept 2 tiles from the city, so any attacking units are unable to heal immediately IBT), then that greatly weakens the city defenses and the rest of our units should be able to approach and take the city. If you are uncomfortable with this, then stack everything together as SCT suggests.

I tried out a scenario like the one we would be facing at Antium. If we just had 1 SOD, and were attacked by all three cats, our Cuirs would each expect to lose about 1.5 strength (some would lose 1 more, others 1 less). Cannons would lose no strength because they are immune to collateral damage. If Augustus then tried to attack with pikes or elephants, our cannons would defend (his strength 6 or 8 vs. our 12). If he attacked with maces or praets, our strongest cuirs would defend because their combat2 promos make them stronger than the cannons (his strength 8+ vs. our 11+). Either way, our stack has the upper hand. If we upgrade one of the Cuirs to Medic1, the Cuirs can regain 1.8 strength while waiting one turn for cannons to bombard, so most of them will be at full strength for the attack.

 

[leif erikson]

I tried out a scenario like the one we would be facing at Antium. If we just had 1 SOD, and were attacked by all three cats, our Cuirs would each expect to lose about 1.5 strength (some would lose 1 more, others 1 less). Cannons would lose no strength because they are immune to collateral damage. If Augustus then tried to attack with pikes or elephants, our cannons would defend (his strength 6 or 8 vs. our 12). If he attacked with maces or praets, our strongest cuirs would defend because their combat2 promos make them stronger than the cannons (his strength 8+ vs. our 11+). Either way, our stack has the upper hand. If we upgrade one of the Cuirs to Medic1, the Cuirs can regain 1.8 strength while waiting one turn for cannons to bombard, so most of them will be at full strength for the attack.

Good info, SCT.
Will looks to promote at least one Cuir. per stack to Medic1.

EDIT - Playing now.
@CP - Moved a Galleon into Calcutta and uploaded the 3-move Cuir. (don't need movement points to upload) and dropped him off in Delhi.

 

[DJMGator13]

I've got a few mm'g ideas that can add almost 50 gpt for a few turns.

Marbleville: switch the 5 scientists to merchants for +19gpt (-208 gpt to -189 gpt). Biology still in 3 turns.

Oporto: work the 3f3c water tile, come off 3 of the 1 food high hammer tiles and hire 3 merchants. This will give us gpt in place of the 47 hammer overflow (city is producing 57 but we need 10 to finish the cannon). We'd pick up +12gpt here with the city being stagnant. After the cannon completes and wealth is selected the higher hammer tile will be better off being worked. (-189gpt to -177gpt)

Florence: mm to the 3 high hammer tiles gives us +17 gpt. (-177gpt to -160gpt)

Nuremberg: might want to fire the merchant and work the 1f4h2c tile to speed up that airship since it is close to the front lines. But only if you need the airship. (-160gpt back to -162gpt)

Madras: didn't appear to have anything selected to build.

Research stays at 3 turns and we trade 5 scientists for 8 (or 7) merchants.

 

[DJMGator13]

I forgot to ask about the workboat sitting in Ivoryville. Do we need it?

Also, where are the 3 frigates NE of Yayoi headed? If they aren't helping in the battle with Rome or protecting galleons, do we need them?

Just trying to think of things to keep the gold flowing.

 

[ShannonCT]

I've got a few mm'g ideas that can add almost 50 gpt for a few turns.

Marbleville: switch the 5 scientists to merchants for +19gpt (-208 gpt to -189 gpt). Biology still in 3 turns.

Have to disagree with this one here. Marbleville has library and uni so scientists are better than merchants. Other ideas are good.

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks Gator - Did Oporto, Nuremburg and Florence. Build in Madras is Culture for expansion next turn.

There is only one Frigate NE of Yayoi and it is headed for Satricum.

Work Boat in Ivoryville headed for the Whale SE of Stoneville, which expands its borders next turn. Other Work Boats will be deleted.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Moved a Galleon into Calcutta and uploaded the 3-move Cuir. (don't need movement points to upload) and dropped him off in Delhi." Didn't know you could upload from a city, but appreciate that it's the same logic as chaining. Nicely done.

"Will looks to promote at least one Cuir. per stack to Medic1." Believe SCT is arguing for only one stack, and his analysis suggests that splitting our units is unecessary (unless several additional defenders appear in Antium). Since it's not important to come out of the Antium battle with a maximum number of units ready to go on to the next battle, I see no reason not to take the KISS approach.

 

[DJMGator13]

Have to disagree with this one here. Marbleville has library and uni so scientists are better than merchants. Other ideas are good.

Keeping the scientist gives us a bigger beaker overflow into the next tech which is good, but I wasn't sure how long the gold will last. The FP comes online in 2 turns and there will be a reduction to maintenance costs when that happens. I was trying to max gold until then in cities that were not building Wonders. Rome has 190 gold so we'll get some by taking cities about the same time we run out.

With the plan calling for a few more techs staying with scientists is the better move.

 

[DJMGator13]

There is only one Frigate NE of Yayoi and it is headed for Satricum.

You're right, I had that one shown on the map area but the group of 3 by Calcutta was displaying as the active unit.

 

[leif erikson]

Keeping the scientist gives us a bigger beaker overflow into the next tech which is good, but I wasn't sure how long the gold will last. The FP comes online in 2 turns and there will be a reduction to maintenance costs when that happens. I was trying to max gold until then in cities that were not building Wonders. Rome has 190 gold so we'll get some by taking cities about the same time we run out.

With the plan calling for a few more techs staying with scientists is the better move.

Actually, Gold is not a problem atm. Fred suggested we drop research back to match the discovery of Biology with the birth of the Great Person in X-ville. On the last turn of Biology, I'll crank it up to 100% to maximize beaker overflow into the next tech, determined by the Great Person.

 

[leif erikson]

Its getting late and I'm getting tired. Don't want to make any dumb mistakes, so I'm going to call it a night.

Played to the point of declaring on Rome. As we will be trying to draw out his stack from Arpinum, we will not attack in that area this turn, so I flew a couple of Airship recce missions to the north. There is a Galleon loaded with Cuir. near Satricum that, once war is declared, will cross into Roman territory and, if a HA is present, attack that city while we wait for more units to come up the coast.

As we need three Galleons for the chain for the Great Prophet, I sent a Galleon up to Pharsalos as any ship Pericles might send to attack must come around that peninsula and it can destroy it.

Pericles has a stack 2-tiles SE of Aachen consisting of one Mace, one War Elephant and one Horse Archer. I expect it will be teleported to the Gold tile west of Agra, opinions? We have enough Airships ready to strike if needed and Cuir to destroy them.

No units have been moved into Rome's territory as they would be moved back by the declaration. Plan to move two 9 to 10 strength Cuir out of Vijay, one tile east, as bait. If they take it, there is enough firepower to put a hurt on them!

Once declaration happens, will gift Military Tradition, Optics and Gunpowder to Boudica, Charlemagne and Gandhi.

Save attached. Please remember we are part way through a turn, so some units have moved and others need to be moved, including loading Galleons at Lagos.

 

[ShannonCT]

Pericles has a stack 2-tiles SE of Aachen consisting of one Mace, one War Elephant and one Horse Archer. I expect it will be teleported to the Gold tile west of Agra, opinions? We have enough Airships ready to strike if needed and Cuir to destroy them.

Not sure, but I'm sure you can respond appropriately.

I see several cities that can be MMed for more gold/beakers: Florence, Camul, Prague, Nuremburg, Oporto, Canalville. Remember we want to maximize the function = bpt + 1.35*gpt.