SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

[Sweetacshon]

Are we waiting for a finalised PPP or the TS? Blub's plan is a good one, if a little loose. My main query is: what are the planned build orders? Or have you played already, Mesix?

 

[BLubmuz]

Are we waiting for a finalised PPP or the TS? Blub's plan is a good one, if a little loose. My main query is: what are the planned build orders? Or have you played already, Mesix?

No, he posted my plan was good, so i posted some more hints.
But he should have posted the save some 36 hours ago.
I PMed him yesterday night and sent an email 1 minute ago.

I've seen posts of him in the HoF, so yesterday afternoon he was in CFC.
I'll wait some hour for news, after that i'll freeze him.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Freeze him? Who are you... this guy?

Maybe we've lost.

 

[Mesix]

TS complete. Here is the Save.

I had a minor problem on the inital turn. My new desktop crashed due to an overtemp fault. The heat sync is a little loose. I could use Mr. Freeze. The irony is that I am playing on the desktop because the Vista laptop is prone to crashing in BTS.

I will post details in a minute. I am going to PM Alan H about the crash.

Here is the Autolog of the repeated moves.

Spoiler :

Tech learned: Monarchy
Tech learned: Construction
Blubzville begins: Worker (3 turns)
Research begun: Philosophy (6 Turns)
Research begun: Gunpowder (6 Turns)
Research begun: Liberalism (6 Turns)
Sparta founded
Tech learned: Monarchy
Tech learned: Construction
Blubzville begins: Worker (3 turns)
Research begun: Philosophy (6 Turns)
Research begun: Gunpowder (6 Turns)
Research begun: Liberalism (6 Turns)
Sparta founded

 

[Mesix]

I followed the PPP posted by Blubz.

I founded all three of the new cities. I left the first one with the default name (Sparta) which can be changed if someone has a creative alternative. I named the others Panama City and New York based on location.

I started Graneries in the new cities for growth. They will need Courthouses soon too. After building the required queue in LP, I build an Odeon and a Temple to increase our happy cap.

Our tech rate dropped to 50% due to maintenance of new cities.

I traded with Wang Kon.

Spoiler :

I set up the tech path as instructed.

Spoiler :

We founded Taoism in Panama City. It autospread to Sparta immediately. The missionary is on his way to LP.

Spoiler :

Shaka made an unreasonable demand. I showed him the road to hell. I didn't have anything that I thought was okay to gift Shaka. If we think it is necessary, we can gift later. I'm in favor of letting him rot and then killing him when the time comes.

Spoiler :

 

[Mesix]

Here is the full autolog:

Tech learned: Monarchy
Tech learned: Construction
Blubzville begins: Worker (3 turns)
Research begun: Philosophy (6 Turns)
Research begun: Gunpowder (6 Turns)
Research begun: Liberalism (6 Turns)
Sparta founded
Sparta begins: Granary (40 turns)
A Forest Preserve was built near The Launch Pad
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Pericles(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Stalin(Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Hammurabi(Babylon) towards Wang Kon(Korea), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 85/330 (350 AD) [11-May-2009 15:37:17]
The Launch Pad begins: University (4 turns)
The Launch Pad finishes: Settler
State Religion Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) from 'no State Religion' to 'Hinduism'
Attitude Change: Stalin(Russia) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 86/330 (380 AD) [11-May-2009 15:39:07]
Blubzville finishes: Worker
Sparta's borders expand

Turn 87/330 (410 AD) [11-May-2009 15:40:09]
The Launch Pad finishes: University
Pindus grows: 3
Judaism has spread: The Launch Pad

Turn 88/330 (440 AD) [11-May-2009 15:41:11]
The Launch Pad begins: Odeon (2 turns)
The Launch Pad begins: Confucian Temple (3 turns)
Corinth founded
Panama City begins: Granary (20 turns)
Tech learned: Philosophy
Taoism founded in Panama City
Taoism has spread: Panama City
Sparta grows: 2
Taoism has spread: Sparta
Panama City's borders expand
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Pericles(Greece), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 89/330 (470 AD) [11-May-2009 15:43:22]
Corinth founded
New York begins: Granary (40 turns)
The Launch Pad finishes: Odeon
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Pericles(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Wang Kon(Korea) towards Stalin(Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 90/330 (500 AD) [11-May-2009 15:45:34]
A Forest Preserve was built near Athens
The Launch Pad finishes: Confucian Temple
Blubzville grows: 5
Blubzville finishes: University

Turn 91/330 (530 AD) [11-May-2009 15:46:10]
The Launch Pad begins: Market (4 turns)
Blubzville begins: Forge (7 turns)

 

[Mesix]

Here is your Session Turn Log from 320 AD to 530 AD:

Turn 84, 320 AD: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 84, 320 AD: You have discovered Construction!
Turn 84, 320 AD: Sparta has been founded.

Turn 85, 350 AD: You have trained a Settler in The Launch Pad. Work has now begun on a University.
Turn 85, 350 AD: Huayna Capac converts to Hinduism!

Turn 86, 380 AD: You have trained a Worker in Blubzville. Work has now begun on a University.
Turn 86, 380 AD: The borders of Sparta have expanded!

Turn 87, 410 AD: Judaism has spread in The Launch Pad.

Turn 88, 440 AD: Panama City has been founded.
Turn 88, 440 AD: Taoism has been founded in Panama City!
Turn 88, 440 AD: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 88, 440 AD: Taoism has spread in Sparta.
Turn 88, 440 AD: The borders of Panama City have expanded!
Turn 88, 440 AD: Al-Kindi (Great Scientist) has been born in Évora (Joao II)!

Turn 89, 470 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Panama City!
Turn 89, 470 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Panama City!
Turn 89, 470 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 13 ? for The Launch Pad.
Turn 89, 470 AD: New York has been founded.
Turn 89, 470 AD: You have constructed a Odeon in The Launch Pad. Work has now begun on a Confucian Temple.
Turn 89, 470 AD: Blubzville will grow to size 5 on the next turn

Turn 90, 500 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Panama City!
Turn 90, 500 AD: The enemy has been spotted near New York!
Turn 90, 500 AD: Blubzville has grown to size 5
Turn 90, 500 AD: Pindus will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 90, 500 AD: New York's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 91, 530 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Panama City!
Turn 91, 530 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Huayna Capac, Wang Kon
Turn 91, 530 AD: Joao II has 3 gold per turn available for trade

 

[Mesix]

Our commercial Internet is down at work so I will not likely be online tonight. Last night we had no Internet either.

 

[Mesix]

Alan H replied to my PM and said that the crash would not be a problem.

 

[BLubmuz]

Alright, i thought you were MIA.
Seems good from the autologs, i'll see the save later.
I'll post my comments on your TS and the PPP for mine.

 

[BLubmuz]

Mesix, you settled Panama city 1N of where it was indicated.
It's a crappy city, missing a seafood and 2 hills.
Not to mention the big overlap with Sparta.
I conceived it to block Joao to place a crappy city somewhere, no problem! now we got our crappy city!
And you even placed the Xbow in the right spot!!!
I hope you just misclicked, or maybe you want build a levee for 2 river tiles? BTW that city miss a lot of workshops: it could have been a powerhouse.

Then you built a lot of useless buildings in LP. We need settlers, not odeon.
While building settlers and workers it doesn't grow.
And LP is working a FP instead of a windmill.

Deity EQM? back to settler!!!

To make it nice, a barb city popped in the furry island. Now we need maces to take it.
It was my Taj city, damn.

And where is the city on the Rockies?

I can't believe it! Odeon and temple instead of workers!!!

I'll try to invent something to recover in my PPP. Not that Panama can be better, anything i can do to try to grab that medal. Hope to post it before sleep.

 

[BLubmuz]

I've seen Poly is on the table now, but surely it's not worth one of the techs we have.
I propose to self-research it (half a turn), then trade for Mono with Hammu.
As you know, some techs are always traded by the BtS AI and Mono is one of them.
We can also see if Aestetics is on the table.

Already tested, it works.

We can offer him MC, so he will build some forge for us.

Aside this, the path is clear: finish GP (1 turn), then Lib in 9.

LP will immediately build a settler for the rockies, then a Galley and a couple maces to take the barb city on the furs. Luck it's in the right spot.

As an alternative we can wait for Paras and send a single one there. He will be enough. No need for the Galley. he can jump.
No one can access that island until Astro. Except us, of course.

Then a worker and the market will go in next TS.

Blubz Forge > Granary
Sparta will switch to a CH: it doesn't need a granary.
Panama switch to a forge, we need to build Versailles there.
NY Forge
Athens granary after MoM (1 turn, it's being chopped) then Uni.

If we manage to trade Mono with Hammu, i propose this path after Lib/Rifl:
Theo > DR > Nationalism.
Then the path to Astro, hoping to trade at least for Compass. Maybe even for Optics.
I suppose you know that Having DR we'll have a bonus in researching Nationalism.
But first, we need badly 2 FPs: this is not possible, and Versailles will be the 2nd one.

I want build the HS in LP (5-6 turns) ASA we'll have Theo.
Next GPerson will pop in 2 turns. My thoughts are already posted on #3.

 

[Mesix]

Sorry about the placement of Panama. My wife came home at the end of the TS and started nagging me to get off the computer and come downstairs. I assume that I clicked the settler to move to the location where the crossbow was at the time and then didn't pay attention when his movement was finished, just clicked to settle. Our core cities are up north, so hopefully this one won't affect out outcome too much. Taking apart my heatsync and putting the computer back together also distracted me while playing and may have been a factor.

 

[BLubmuz]

Sorry about the placement of Panama. My wife came home at the end of the TS and started nagging me to get off the computer and come downstairs. I assume that I clicked the settler to move to the location where the crossbow was at the time and then didn't pay attention when his movement was finished, just clicked to settle. Our core cities are up north, so hopefully this one won't affect out outcome too much. Taking apart my heatsync and putting the computer back together also distracted me while playing and may have been a factor.

A misclick then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we try to ask Alan if there's some chance we can repeat this TS?
We carefully planned, i don't think a misclick in found a city can be like a one in battle.

Would you try, or better do you think we can have some - small - chance?

BTW i inserted the * to see how it works in the statistics: they probably show you a certain number of characters, not of rows.

 

[Sweetacshon]

There is no chance of a replay, I'd estimate. We don't deserve one, imo, a mistake ingame is just like a planning mistake, part of the game. Secondly, it'd be opening a can of worms - far too much work policing future mistakes, I doubt the staff would go for it. Feel free to ask, tho.

I've had a busy day or 2, and don't really have time to check the save/PPP now. Blubmuz, plz don't play too soon.

 

[Simon_c]

I'd say no chance too.

 

[BLubmuz]

I'd say no chance too.

Yeah, better keep that mistake and save our face.

But this is not the way to play in team. 2 days of delay, play in bad conditions... now a delay because no one commented my PPP.

I would add that if RL is always first (and it can't be different) a HoF submission can wait.
true, komrade?

This is mainly addressed to Mesix, but all the team lacks presence.
If we continue on this pace we'll not be able to submit on time.

And sincerely, with all the efforts i've put on testing, i'm thinking to ask you this:
if you want finish this game and aim for a medal, be more present in this thread, play on time or inform you are busy by the days you can be up.
Otherwise, I appreciate what Berserks did.
Better few but good and motivated, than people not posting for days.

 

[unclethrill]

Yeah, better keep that mistake and save our face.

But this is not the way to play in team. 2 days of delay, play in bad conditions... now a delay because no one commented my PPP.

I would add that if RL is always first (and it can't be different) a HoF submission can wait.
true, komrade?

This is mainly addressed to Mesix, but all the team lacks presence.
If we continue on this pace we'll not be able to submit on time.

And sincerely, with all the efforts i've put on testing, i'm thinking to ask you this:
if you want finish this game and aim for a medal, be more present in this thread, play on time or inform you are busy by the days you can be up.
Otherwise, I appreciate what Berserks did.
Better few but good and motivated, than people not posting for days.

Well, I can't speak for everyone else but I have felt from the beginning that none of my comments or presence has mattered. This hasn't been a team game since the beginning. You have made all the decisions, shot down anyone whose opinion differed from yours and generally made this not a lot of fun. I know why you have such a good plan (Mesix and I do work together) but that doesn't make it perfect (or right). You seem real full of yourself and are IMO the non-team player.
Why should anyone comment on your PPP? It won't matter. You are going to do whatever you want. In addition to that, we are chastised when, on our turn sets, we deviate from what you've directed us to do. And in response to an earlier comment about being a HOF QM, so am I and an EQM at Deity level to boot so I also "understand how the game works".
So you can take this however you want but the bottom-line is that this was supposed to be a fun team game not a exercise in how well the rest of us can do what their told. BTW this is mainly addressed to Blubmuz.

 

[Sweetacshon]

... now a delay because no one commented my PPP.

It's been just over 24 hours. Be patient.

I'm not really going to comment on the teamwork thing for fear of inflammation. I'm a lover, not a fighter. To Mesix, I say that the city placement is regrettable, but won't break the game. If we lose by 2 turns, tho, we might have to string you up.

My thoughts on the PPP:
We're can run 1gpt at 30%, so I say no to the new city, and delay furry island until paras. We also have only 6 workers for 7 cities, which is a travesty. I recommend at least 3 more this TS.

Why would we want poly or mono?? Just more detours. I'd prefer to keep them for an add on to a future tech deal, as they will already be lopsided. Oh, I see, for the Theo/DR detour. Versailles might be nice in the south, and we can keep the FP for over in Ham's old land. HS is not really necessary, but again, would be nice. TBH, I'd prefer if we stayed closer to the beeline and didn't waste the prod'n in LP. we need workers, obviously, the market, granary!!, and Oxford in there will be huge. Not to mention the fact that we have a war coming up. Chalk up 1 vote against DR etc. I feel all efforts should be made to get courts, (granaries), libraries, unis in our cities to speed Oxford. Forges also, I guess, but that depends on the immediate hammer yield in each city. Feel free to chop gl into these buildings!

A gripe: that f'n road south of LP... why was it ever planned?? 1. We have airports. 2. The road could've been extended from the uranium. 3. The forest has negligible chance of growing back on an improved tile. Now we have roads all over our chopping zone and NP candidate

Just a note, to keep an eye on. Shaka has hands full, and we are his worst enemy, iirc. He can't hit us now, but, well, you know Shaka.

 

[Simon_c]

Er...

I don't even see a PPP here that I can comment on. I can see a post saying what the overall plans are, nothing indicating that post 592.


There's some high level ideas of what the turnset should do. Great, but I didn't see a structured post about what cities were doing, and why.

I can get that for a truly competitive submission we have to plan more so the thinking time is before playing, instead of a turnset taking hours, it's the planning that takes days. But, I don't think BLubmuz is being fair in asking for fine details from everybody else, getting cross when things deviate slightly, and then just submitting an overall outline for his own turnset.

So, are we going to have detailed PPPs. or just post an overview of the ideas ?