SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

unclethrill · Jun 21, 2009

Mesix said:
I left the GS that popped in Pindus sleeping in Pindus. There is no Academy in Pindus yet, but it may be better to bulb with him. The other GS is sleeping in LP.

OMG! I vouched for you. You promised not to screw up any more turnsets! Then BOOM you pop a GS instead of the GM that you were supposed to get. No SUSHI will cost us a bunch of turns. Damn Mesix. Too bad we don't have a GM from earlier in the game available. It was probably you who suggested we settle it. Anyone remember why we did that???

Mesix · Jun 21, 2009

unclethrill said:
OMG! I vouched for you. You promised not to screw up any more turnsets! Then BOOM you pop a GS instead of the GM that you were supposed to get. No SUSHI will cost us a bunch of turns. Damn Mesix. Too bad we don't have a GM from earlier in the game available. It was probably you who suggested we settle it. Anyone remember why we did that???

Don't make me disconnect your Internet connection. Get back to wotk. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

BLubmuz · Jun 22, 2009

trades:
DR for money to Shaka and Stalin
DR+Lib+money to Wang for MT. We don't need it, but we can sign a defensive pact with him.

Broadway will be completed in 3 turns and i'll renegotiate the furs changing to hits.

Are we still goin' for Sushi? if so, a GM can pop in 8-9 turns and i can renegotiate also the fish deals.

Production:
LP will break WS to squeeze an executive for Blubz
Opis: market, not research
Sippar is building research without even a university.

I don't write a complete list of the cities, just this: any city needs a complete sets of buildings, precedence to factories if they can be built in less than 10 turns. After factories, Uni, harbor, market, obs, grocer, lab, bank in this order. You can notice cheaper first.

Terrain improvements:
A worker is building an useless railroad on ice near Athens. Nippur needs watermills and we need a railroad network to improve our few mines and mainly to move fast in case of danger.

Shaka does not yet have Astro, but is better avoid surprises. Sparta and Panama will build drydocks then destroyers/battleships after combustion.

Research:
Finish Industr, then Combustion/plastics, then rocketry

Specialists:
with the exception of LP and Pindus i'll reassign some engineers where production needs them.

I also try to spread Mining to Nippur, Athens, Babylon, Sparta, NY after Blubz. The "rule" can be: right after a city has Mining it will immediately switch to an executive.

I can play any time after i gather enough comments on this.

Mesix · Jun 22, 2009

Get the DP with Wang. Then if Shaka DOW he will have his hands full back home.

NY doesn't have enough :hammers:

to be a good builder for SS components. It doesn't need Mining Inc. After the necessary buildings (Lib, Uni, Obs, Lab) are in place it should build Research.

Opis and Sippar are building Research because it would take too long to build the education buildings. With only 30 or so turns left, cities need to be switched to Research as soon as it is more beneficial than continued building. Mose scientists and less engineers. The +2 :hammers:

is not that important. Newer cities (like the ones we took from Joao) are still running engineers. I carefully considered each engineer that was fired and it was absolutly the best decision for that city. Please do not rehire them without careful consideration becasue it would be a waste. 3 extra raw :science:

is better than 2 :hammers:

in most of our cities.

We only need 5-7 cities building SS parts. The rest should be building research as soon as it is possible. LP, Nippur, Bablyon, Athens, Sparta, and Blubz should all get Mining Inc. Lisbon and Evora may also benefit. The corp maint is too high to justify spreading Mining, Inc. to any city that will not be building SS components.

The useless RR is being built because it was a road that was unfinished before RR was researched. There weren't any improvements left for the workers to build. Now that we have RR, they should be deployed to build a rail networkk...especially on our existing mines.

Lisbon and Evora are good cities to run merchants to support our economy. Build Bank > Market > Grocier in them to get the maximum benefit. Most of the rest of our cities should be running scientists. Research key to victory. 1-2 turns could be the difference between a medal and another wooden spoon.

Sweetacshon · Jun 22, 2009

The defensive pact could be dangerous. What if it drags us into a war? On that note, don't build too many ships yet, just keep an eye on Shaka for his techs and hands full. Every unit not built is money saved.

Prod'n/specialists: I'm sure we have reached the point that buildings aren't worth it any more. Even a 10 turn factory cannot possibly be worthwhile. If you do want buildings, I suggest allocating a city (and pls use signs) as cash or science, depending on what's already there, only build the relevant buildings, and get on to the important stuff, ie cash or science.

Other parts of the loose plan sound fine, including bulbing.

Too bad we don't have a GM from earlier in the game available. It was probably you who suggested we settle it. Anyone remember why we did that???

~~Yar, because we were going to have another one in a few turns by running lots of merchants in Pindus. Do you guys also while you are sitting around at work watching movies?~~ Oh right, I misread the Teutonic piss-take. Carry on. Speaking of, we may as well grab another GM for sushi, at least it'll give us the option.

unclethrill · Jun 22, 2009

I agree with the DP. Since it's a 3 man game right now, a DP with wang guarantees that Shaka has to fight a two pronged war if he gets feisty. If Wang declares on shaka then the DP just goes away. It really is a win win at this point.

Simon_c · Jun 22, 2009

I say go for the DP.

in post 1010 mesix posted a good analysis of what cities need factories. Basically only ones that are going to build space ship parts.
Anything else I guess needs to be worked out if the factory will pay for itself.
One queston though, if you have a city with 10 base hammers, and a 50% science multipluer, a forge and a factory, does it produce 20 beakers ?

BLubmuz · Jun 22, 2009

DP with Wang:
Sweeta is right about we can be dragged into a war.
But i've never seen in my tests Shaka declare on Wang. And Wang wasn't so powerful, with 2 vassals. I guess he must think twice before DoW us if we got a DP with a close neighbour of him.
Conclusion: i think the pros are more than the cons for a DP. But since Wang is friendly and he alway accept a DP, we can see how Shaka's are are before sign it.

You're right about buildings/factories, but there's no point in producing wealth without gold multipliers (market, grocer, bank) or research without beakers multipliers (unis, obs, labs). We can surely avoid factories in the smallest cities, and banks/labs too.

In other words, we can avoid expensive buildings.

We can specialize some city and after cheap unis, build market+grocer then wealth or market + obs then research.
The powerful cities will have any kind of building.

I think the best thing i can do is put research/wealth in queue after the needed buildings. When those will be completed the city will switch automatically to the chosen build and we'll need only to MM it at best for that purpose.

I will mark the map with the needed improvements and the cities as Sweeta suggested for good measure.

I'll go with the trades and keep the DP in standby.

BLubmuz · Jun 22, 2009

Mesix said:
We need to identify cities that can benefit from having Factories since I can add them to the front for the build queue after one more turn. If we assume that the game will be over in about 30 turns, then any city that takes more than about 8 turns to build the Factory wil not get a return on the investment for the spent to build. The exception would be cities that have already finished the necessary infrastructure and which will be building SS components since the +25% bonus to SS production outweighs the lack of getting a ROI for building the Factory.

Any city that will not be building SS components is better off producing either research or gold for the rest of the game (after infrastructure buildings are in place if necessary).

My tentative list of Factory cities includes:

Launch Pad
Blubsville
Sparta
Nippur
Bablyon
Lisbon (maybe, consider after revolt ends)
Evora (maybe, consider after rushing MS)

Are there any other cities that should get Factories?

What Mesix forget is that factories give a 75% production with 3GD except for Greenland.

Thus the list can be expanded to Panama, Athens, NYC and Pindus. Probably also Vancouver. We can build thursters in the less productive cities.

As i already said, Sparta and Panama will build some navy, say 4-6. With a so large empire some units don't make any difference.

unclethrill · Jun 22, 2009

I still don't see a downside to the immediate signing of a DP. If Shaka declares on us without it then we are on our own but with the DP if shaka declares then Wang will attack him. With the DP, if Shaka declares on Wang then we get "dragged in" but shaka will have his hands full with wang either way. There is no downside to this arrangement. I say get it ASAP.

Mesix · Jun 22, 2009

Unclethrill makes a good point...get the DP ASAP.

BLubmuz · Jun 22, 2009

Mesix said:
Unclethrill makes a good point...get the DP ASAP.

Since the pro-DP are the majority, i can't avoid to follow the majority wishes.

vox populi, vox Dei.

I'll play tomorrow, no more to be debated.

Mesix · Jun 22, 2009

Detailed PPP?

unclethrill · Jun 22, 2009

Mesix said:
Detailed PPP?

BLubmuz said:
trades:
DR for money to Shaka and Stalin
DR+Lib+money to Wang for MT. We don't need it, but we can sign a defensive pact with him.

Broadway will be completed in 3 turns and i'll renegotiate the furs changing to hits.

Are we still goin' for Sushi? if so, a GM can pop in 8-9 turns and i can renegotiate also the fish deals.

Production:
LP will break WS to squeeze an executive for Blubz
Opis: market, not research
Sippar is building research without even a university.

I don't write a complete list of the cities, just this: any city needs a complete sets of buildings, precedence to factories if they can be built in less than 10 turns. After factories, Uni, harbor, market, obs, grocer, lab, bank in this order. You can notice cheaper first.

Terrain improvements:
A worker is building an useless railroad on ice near Athens. Nippur needs watermills and we need a railroad network to improve our few mines and mainly to move fast in case of danger.

Shaka does not yet have Astro, but is better avoid surprises. Sparta and Panama will build drydocks then destroyers/battleships after combustion.

Research:
Finish Industr, then Combustion/plastics, then rocketry

Specialists:
with the exception of LP and Pindus i'll reassign some engineers where production needs them.

I also try to spread Mining to Nippur, Athens, Babylon, Sparta, NY after Blubz. The "rule" can be: right after a city has Mining it will immediately switch to an executive.

I can play any time after i gather enough comments on this.

I believe that would sum it up.

Sweetacshon · Jun 22, 2009

Yep.... and I'm not sure I'm willing to check all the items of a detailed PPP anyway, at this stage.

Mesix · Jun 22, 2009

My bad...I guess general overview is all we need. Here I was taking the time to click through the cities and list each of the buildings that I planned for every city before my turn so that the team could discuss it before I play. How silly of me.

BLubmuz · Jun 23, 2009

Mesix said:
My bad...I guess general overview is all we need. Here I was taking the time to click through the cities and list each of the buildings that I planned for every city before my turn so that the team could discuss it before I play. How silly of me.

I did it, but you did what you wanted anyway.

Sweetacshon said:
Yep.... and I'm not sure I'm willing to check all the items of a detailed PPP anyway, at this stage.

And 27 cities are really too much time to write.
I think a general plan like the one i posted (not only for me) is all we need.
Details for the few strategic buildings in important cities.

Sweetacshon · Jun 23, 2009

Mesix said:
My bad...I guess general overview is all we need. Here I was taking the time to click through the cities and list each of the buildings that I planned for every city before my turn so that the team could discuss it before I play. How silly of me.

Awww... come on. :blush:

I was a little cavalier, I admit, but I just thought we'd reached the point where general build orders are appropriate. Surely: if commerce city -> then build bank, market, etc, then wealth... or: put Min Inc and labs into all ss part cities, etc are common sense and natural moves from here. I guess the question is: what more do you want Blubmuz to put in his PPP?

BLubmuz · Jun 23, 2009

TS played, the save

Nothing happened. Just i traded DR to Shaka before trade with Wang and he passed from Friendly to Pleased, so the DP is in red. ANyway Shaka is still far from Astro and we have time to build a decent navy before he arrives. If he will do.

I renegotiated the deals involving furs and copper.
Do NOT renegotiate the deal with Stalin, or we'll lose the silk.

I've found:
- 7 (seven) mines built outside any BFC and without any resource. I spare you my comments.
- 4 frigates, when we need 2.
- 3 wandering work boats. I used a couple to build nets (useful if we found Sushi) and the last one is on his way to build a platform in some 4 turns.

There's still a good number of improvements to be built (logic, if we wasted time improving outside BFCs) and the railroad network is just began.

I recommend to:
- airlift another Para in Greenland.
- spread irrigation to the wheat near Opis.

We're out of GAge next turn and Nippur will be ready to begin the 3GD.

the autolog

Spoiler :

and the turn log

Spoiler :

Mesix · Jun 23, 2009

Again...on my TS I did not have RR yet so there was nothing for the workers to do. I had two choices:

A. Put them to sleep in one of the cities.
B. Build mines on undeveloped hills to have a small chance to pop a resource.

I chose B.

Now that we have RR, there is something for the workers to do.

SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

Why am I up right now?

The Allfather

HoF Quattromaster

The Allfather

In the foetal position

Why am I up right now?

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

Why am I up right now?

The Allfather

HoF Quattromaster

The Allfather

Why am I up right now?

In the foetal position

The Allfather

HoF Quattromaster

In the foetal position

HoF Quattromaster

The Allfather

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