Dynamic
But not hurry
And fast 3d Worker gives Alpha in 1540BC, in other case I got it in 1480BC...
SGOTM 09 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
So looks like Oracle in 1000BC is a reasonable risk. I don't see any point in sacrificing our developement to try to build the Oracle before 1500BC. Lets just play according to Dynamic's plan. Or course if the scout gets killed by animals and doesn't meet anyone we'll have to revise our plans.
Since Dynamic planned the micromanagement for many turns ahead, perhaps he should play a long session, say first 30 turns. And after that we can play 10 turns each as usual, and later maybe switch to 5 turns.
Since Dynamic planned the micromanagement for many turns ahead, perhaps he should play a long session, say first 30 turns. And after that we can play 10 turns each as usual, and later maybe switch to 5 turns.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Plan:
11: Worker starts Farm on the nearest Corn, Building Warrior, Citizen still works on Corn.
12: Scout NW,NW, then go to South.
13: The Wheel, Researching Pottery.
14: Farm is ready, Borders expand.
15: Worker starts second Farm, Capital grows to size 2, second citizen works on Forest 2/1 for sync growth and Warrior without hammer overflow.
18: Second Farm is ready, Capital grows to size 3, produces Warrior, Starts Settler(6 turns), Warrior go NW.
19: Pottery, researching Writing. Worker go to Hill N from Capital.
20: Worker starts Windmill.
23: Windmill ready, reset 3d Citizen.
24: Settler ready, start Worker (3 turns). Worker go E,E on second Hill. Settler go NE,N.
25: Sparta is founded, use Windmill, starts Work Boat. Worker starts Windmill. Science to 0%.
26: Science to 100%.
27: Worker 2 is ready go SW, build next Worker.
28: Worker 2 starts road on Forest, Windmill 2 is ready, reset 3d citizen.
29: Writing, starts Alpha, sign open borders. Worker 1 builds road to Sparta, Worker 2 finishes Road on Forest.
30: Worker 3 is ready starts road to Sparta. Worker 2 go NW. Capital builds Settler (5 turns).
Then shortly Sparta build Library and grow to size 4 (Warrior go back), Set 2 Scientists and got GS in 1240BC - Academy.
Capital build Settler-Granary-Library-Oracle (1000BC).
Marble City build at least 2 Warriors for Capital and itself, then Warrior/Airship/Granary.
Alphabet in 1540BC, then Myst-Medi-Priest-Masonry, I don't know what's possible to trade.
11: Worker starts Farm on the nearest Corn, Building Warrior, Citizen still works on Corn.
12: Scout NW,NW, then go to South.
13: The Wheel, Researching Pottery.
14: Farm is ready, Borders expand.
15: Worker starts second Farm, Capital grows to size 2, second citizen works on Forest 2/1 for sync growth and Warrior without hammer overflow.
18: Second Farm is ready, Capital grows to size 3, produces Warrior, Starts Settler(6 turns), Warrior go NW.
19: Pottery, researching Writing. Worker go to Hill N from Capital.
20: Worker starts Windmill.
23: Windmill ready, reset 3d Citizen.
24: Settler ready, start Worker (3 turns). Worker go E,E on second Hill. Settler go NE,N.
25: Sparta is founded, use Windmill, starts Work Boat. Worker starts Windmill. Science to 0%.
26: Science to 100%.
27: Worker 2 is ready go SW, build next Worker.
28: Worker 2 starts road on Forest, Windmill 2 is ready, reset 3d citizen.
29: Writing, starts Alpha, sign open borders. Worker 1 builds road to Sparta, Worker 2 finishes Road on Forest.
30: Worker 3 is ready starts road to Sparta. Worker 2 go NW. Capital builds Settler (5 turns).
Then shortly Sparta build Library and grow to size 4 (Warrior go back), Set 2 Scientists and got GS in 1240BC - Academy.
Capital build Settler-Granary-Library-Oracle (1000BC).
Marble City build at least 2 Warriors for Capital and itself, then Warrior/Airship/Granary.
Alphabet in 1540BC, then Myst-Medi-Priest-Masonry, I don't know what's possible to trade.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Turn Log:
Turn 12, 3280 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs CFR'sScout (2.45)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Combat Odds: 0.3%
Turn 12, 3280 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: CFR's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!
Turn 13, 3220 BC: The borders of Athens have expanded!
Turn 18, 2920 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 25, 2500 BC: Sparta has been founded.
I have stopped because I receive new offer for MM from Bemep.
Main news are meeting Joao and Confirming of South Continent existing.
Turn 12, 3280 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs CFR'sScout (2.45)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Combat Odds: 0.3%
Turn 12, 3280 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 12, 3280 BC: CFR's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!
Turn 13, 3220 BC: The borders of Athens have expanded!
Turn 18, 2920 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 25, 2500 BC: Sparta has been founded.
I have stopped because I receive new offer for MM from Bemep.
Main news are meeting Joao and Confirming of South Continent existing.
Dynamic
But not hurry
I'll test till 1000BC (50), thanks to Bemep for note, we will have Alpha and Academy 1 turn earlier.
The game considers a workboat to be a military unit, so we get the 25% hammer bonus from police state when building a WB. Also if we have overflow from the WB to library, 1 hammer is lost due to a rounding error. So it is very efficent to let Sparta grow to size 2 ASAP and then build the WB at 4 raw hammers per turn. This way we get the WB and the library completed 1 turn sooner. The downside is that Athens produces the 3rd worker and the settler for the marble city 1 turn later, but the marble city is not so important and Athens doesn't seem to slow down its growth because of the delay, since the granary will be built at the same time or even sooner due to higher overflow.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Current Plan:
25: Science to 50%. Sparta Works on Windmill.
26: Science to 100%. Sparta Works on Corn.
27: Worker 2 is ready, builds road to Sparta. Capital builds Worker 3. Warrior comes back to Sparta.
28: Writing, NOT SIGN OPEN BORDERS, start Alphabet, Science to 0%. Sparta grows to size 2, works on Windmill and Forest. Capital works on 2 Corns and second Windmill. Worker 1 finishes Windmill, Worker 2 finishes Road on NE from Capital.
29: Science to 100%. Worker 1 builds ROad near Sparta. Worker 2 go SW,SW.
30: Road to Sparta is Ready, Worker 2 builds Road on Forest SW from Capital. SIGN OPEN BORDERS!!! It forces trade route between Capital and Sparta on this turn!
31: Work Boat is ready, Sparta builds Library. Capital finishes Worker 3, starts Settler. Worker 1 go S,S. Road on SW from Capital is ready, Worker 3 go SW,NW.
32: Work Boat builds Fishing Boats, Sparta works on Windmill and Fish. Worker 1 builds FP on E from Capital. Worker 2 builds FP on SW from Capital (only 2 turns). Worker 3 builds road on W,W from Capital.
33: Road on W,W from Capital is ready.
34: Sparta grows to size 3, 3d citizen works on Forest. Workers 2 and 3 build FP on W,W from Capital.
35:
36: Settler is ready, go SW,NW,NW. Capital starts Granary. FP on W,W is ready.
37: Science to 90%. Workers 2,3 build road NE form Marble BEFORE FOUNDING CITY, it looks like we got trade way immediately. Settler found Corinth. Corinth works on FP, builds Warrior. Sparta grows to size 4, 4th Citizen works on lake. FP E from Capital is ready.
38: Science to 100%. Capital grows to size 4, 4th Citizen works on E-FP. Workers 2,3 build FP SW from Capital (Worker 2 already worked here before). Worker 1 go S.
39: Sparta finishes Library, starts Worker. 2 Citizens stand Scientists. Corinth finishes Warrior 2, starts Warrior 3. Worker 1 build FP on SE from Capital. Warrior 2 go to Capital.
40: Alphabet, some trading, start Mysticism, Science to 0%. Capital grows to size 5. Worker 2 go to Hill SE from Corinth. Worker 3 go to NW,W form Capital.
41: Science to 100% (25 gold, -4 per turn). Worker 2 build Windmill, Worker 3 build FP.
42: Capital grows to size 6, take FP from Corinth. Corinth works on Sheep.
43: Myticism, starts Meditation. Capital finishes Granary, starts Library.
44: Meditation, start Priesthood. Corinth works on Windmill. Capital grows to size 7, check citizens, they should work on on FP, not ordinary Forests.
45: Priesthood, start Masonry. GS in Sparta, build Academy in Capital. Worker 1 go SW, Worker 2 SE,E on Hill.
46: Masonry, start Math, Science to 0%. Capital grows to size 8, Library, starts Oracle. Worker 1 builds FP, Worker 2 builds Windmill. May be take off Scientists in Sparta for faster Worker. But in this case Math will be in 960BC only.
47: Science to 100%. Worker 3 starts Pasture on Sheep.
48: Capital grows to size 9.
49: Corinth grows to size 2, Pasture is ready, Windmill is ready. Worker in Sparta.
50: Oracle, Capital grows to size 10. May be Math. Corinth finishes Granary.
25: Science to 50%. Sparta Works on Windmill.
26: Science to 100%. Sparta Works on Corn.
27: Worker 2 is ready, builds road to Sparta. Capital builds Worker 3. Warrior comes back to Sparta.
28: Writing, NOT SIGN OPEN BORDERS, start Alphabet, Science to 0%. Sparta grows to size 2, works on Windmill and Forest. Capital works on 2 Corns and second Windmill. Worker 1 finishes Windmill, Worker 2 finishes Road on NE from Capital.
29: Science to 100%. Worker 1 builds ROad near Sparta. Worker 2 go SW,SW.
30: Road to Sparta is Ready, Worker 2 builds Road on Forest SW from Capital. SIGN OPEN BORDERS!!! It forces trade route between Capital and Sparta on this turn!
31: Work Boat is ready, Sparta builds Library. Capital finishes Worker 3, starts Settler. Worker 1 go S,S. Road on SW from Capital is ready, Worker 3 go SW,NW.
32: Work Boat builds Fishing Boats, Sparta works on Windmill and Fish. Worker 1 builds FP on E from Capital. Worker 2 builds FP on SW from Capital (only 2 turns). Worker 3 builds road on W,W from Capital.
33: Road on W,W from Capital is ready.
34: Sparta grows to size 3, 3d citizen works on Forest. Workers 2 and 3 build FP on W,W from Capital.
35:
36: Settler is ready, go SW,NW,NW. Capital starts Granary. FP on W,W is ready.
37: Science to 90%. Workers 2,3 build road NE form Marble BEFORE FOUNDING CITY, it looks like we got trade way immediately. Settler found Corinth. Corinth works on FP, builds Warrior. Sparta grows to size 4, 4th Citizen works on lake. FP E from Capital is ready.
38: Science to 100%. Capital grows to size 4, 4th Citizen works on E-FP. Workers 2,3 build FP SW from Capital (Worker 2 already worked here before). Worker 1 go S.
39: Sparta finishes Library, starts Worker. 2 Citizens stand Scientists. Corinth finishes Warrior 2, starts Warrior 3. Worker 1 build FP on SE from Capital. Warrior 2 go to Capital.
40: Alphabet, some trading, start Mysticism, Science to 0%. Capital grows to size 5. Worker 2 go to Hill SE from Corinth. Worker 3 go to NW,W form Capital.
41: Science to 100% (25 gold, -4 per turn). Worker 2 build Windmill, Worker 3 build FP.
42: Capital grows to size 6, take FP from Corinth. Corinth works on Sheep.
43: Myticism, starts Meditation. Capital finishes Granary, starts Library.
44: Meditation, start Priesthood. Corinth works on Windmill. Capital grows to size 7, check citizens, they should work on on FP, not ordinary Forests.
45: Priesthood, start Masonry. GS in Sparta, build Academy in Capital. Worker 1 go SW, Worker 2 SE,E on Hill.
46: Masonry, start Math, Science to 0%. Capital grows to size 8, Library, starts Oracle. Worker 1 builds FP, Worker 2 builds Windmill. May be take off Scientists in Sparta for faster Worker. But in this case Math will be in 960BC only.
47: Science to 100%. Worker 3 starts Pasture on Sheep.
48: Capital grows to size 9.
49: Corinth grows to size 2, Pasture is ready, Windmill is ready. Worker in Sparta.
50: Oracle, Capital grows to size 10. May be Math. Corinth finishes Granary.
Dynamic
But not hurry
I think you mean Windmill S,SW. 
I'll recheck the way. If I remember right, Worker 2 builds Windmill for Corinth before Windmill for Capital because Athens could work on other improved tiles but Corinth can't. But I should check it. Worker 3 build FP before Pasture for prevent Capital from rebell, I'll also check it.
But on the way of optimization first 50 turns of our development we forget about next steps...
It' more or less clear about expanding: when we got Copper or Archery we can expand safely untill Barbarian Crossbowmens... But what about Science? Now in Minor69 some strong players have switched to Caste System and use GS rush to Biology. They are also building GL for this.
I usually don't use GS rush and GL, but now we have problems with expansion but have Marble, Philo trait and National Park as strategy key... May be we should think a little bit about it...
I'll recheck the way. If I remember right, Worker 2 builds Windmill for Corinth before Windmill for Capital because Athens could work on other improved tiles but Corinth can't. But I should check it. Worker 3 build FP before Pasture for prevent Capital from rebell, I'll also check it.
But on the way of optimization first 50 turns of our development we forget about next steps...
It' more or less clear about expanding: when we got Copper or Archery we can expand safely untill Barbarian Crossbowmens... But what about Science? Now in Minor69 some strong players have switched to Caste System and use GS rush to Biology. They are also building GL for this.
I usually don't use GS rush and GL, but now we have problems with expansion but have Marble, Philo trait and National Park as strategy key... May be we should think a little bit about it...
We have too few coastal cities for LH, I fear (expect 3 so far), and an early WWonder will slow down the expansion.
We can switch to Castes (and Pacifism then), if we want to get Bio faster, but it will require GS for PPress and finishing research ourselves. This will slow us down at the landgrab phase and when we should be building (pop-rushing) Universities for Oxford. Also Optics and Philo will be in the way of GS before Chemistry, and while we're certainly getting Philo for Liber, we need it later (if we're not running Pacifism), and we're not 100% sure we need Optics anyway as it is not necessary once we have Physics and Medicine.
We will get loads of GS after NatPark, and there will be enough techs to lightbulb them without forcing the birth. Early bulbs weigh twice, I know, but still the early phase is not the GP-phase in this game.
And it will be very costly to lightbulb Bio then, as it is below Compass and Astronomy on top of that, and you cannot expect to trade for the latter one fast enough.
To avoid this path alltogether you have to not have Iron Working until Bio.
Edit: I seem to have some outdated GS preference file; actually, Chemistry is more prefferable than Optics, and Bio - more than Compass.
Also, early GS makes chances for non-GS for GAges very low.
I believe in GMinor 69 people had no Natparks from the start and thus did not count much on NatPark, unlike this game.
We can switch to Castes (and Pacifism then), if we want to get Bio faster, but it will require GS for PPress and finishing research ourselves. This will slow us down at the landgrab phase and when we should be building (pop-rushing) Universities for Oxford. Also Optics and Philo will be in the way of GS before Chemistry, and while we're certainly getting Philo for Liber, we need it later (if we're not running Pacifism), and we're not 100% sure we need Optics anyway as it is not necessary once we have Physics and Medicine.
We will get loads of GS after NatPark, and there will be enough techs to lightbulb them without forcing the birth. Early bulbs weigh twice, I know, but still the early phase is not the GP-phase in this game.
And it will be very costly to lightbulb Bio then, as it is below Compass and Astronomy on top of that, and you cannot expect to trade for the latter one fast enough.
To avoid this path alltogether you have to not have Iron Working until Bio.
Edit: I seem to have some outdated GS preference file; actually, Chemistry is more prefferable than Optics, and Bio - more than Compass.
Also, early GS makes chances for non-GS for GAges very low.
I believe in GMinor 69 people had no Natparks from the start and thus did not count much on NatPark, unlike this game.
Dynamic
But not hurry
We already can get some interesting details of other teams playing from the graphs.
For example, Misfits went for early Oracle (1540BC, turn 41).
Remember, in BtS 3.17 Units Power was changed.
I attach file with current version unit-tech-building power.
For example, Misfits went for early Oracle (1540BC, turn 41).
Remember, in BtS 3.17 Units Power was changed.
I attach file with current version unit-tech-building power.
Dynamic
But not hurry
And GS tech preference:
Dynamic
But not hurry
Lexad, Iron Working don't disturb us, realy techs for GS on the way to Biology are:
Education
Printing Press
Philosophy (if we know Meditation)
Chemistry
Paper
Paper and Philo (if needed) are researched ourself, so only Education, Printing Press, Chemistry and Biology are the target for GSs. Of course, it's a lot, but we should check our decision.
Education
Printing Press
Philosophy (if we know Meditation)
Chemistry
Paper
Paper and Philo (if needed) are researched ourself, so only Education, Printing Press, Chemistry and Biology are the target for GSs. Of course, it's a lot, but we should check our decision.
Dynamic said:
Your worker 1 on turn 31 goes S,S. Instead we can use the road and send him to the green hill, so he can build a windmill instead of an FP, which is better (unless we need happiness urgently). I don't know if it is possible to improve sheep sooner without loosing worker turns. You can play the remaining 5 turns up to turn 30, and then I'll try to optimise the worker actions for turns 30-50 a bit.
We cannot build the GL, because we know Scientific Method which obsoletes it. I don't think we should switch to castes/pacifism before we get Oxford built, otherwise building the 6 univercities will take too long. But after Oxford is built, we should propably make the switch. Lightbulbing Chemistry or Biology may be a good idea then.Dynamic said:
Dynamic
But not hurry
I have finished my session, so Obormot is next person. Now we have many points for optimization.
Turn Log
Turn 25, 2500 BC: Sparta has been founded.
Turn 27, 2380 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 27, 2380 BC: The borders of Sparta have expanded!
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs CFR'sScout (2.70)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 27, 2380 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Lion!
Turn 28, 2320 BC: Can Trade Open Borders with: Joao II, Hammurabi
Turn 29, 2260 BC: Hammurabi adopts Slavery!
We have reached Babylon and Joao borders, signed Open Borders.
Last turn shows us very interesting picture - strong promoted Barbarian Galley near Joao Capital...
Turn Log
Turn 25, 2500 BC: Sparta has been founded.
Turn 27, 2380 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 27, 2380 BC: The borders of Sparta have expanded!
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs CFR'sScout (2.70)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 27, 2380 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 27, 2380 BC: CFR's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Lion!
Turn 28, 2320 BC: Can Trade Open Borders with: Joao II, Hammurabi
Turn 29, 2260 BC: Hammurabi adopts Slavery!
We have reached Babylon and Joao borders, signed Open Borders.
Last turn shows us very interesting picture - strong promoted Barbarian Galley near Joao Capital...
Dynamic
But not hurry
Of course, I just forget it...
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