SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

I think he was heading to Cleveland for a few days after he left Chicago. I thought he'd have checked in by now, though.

I was hoping it wasn't all that and grillin' and Cubbies...

Internet on the road can be a funny thing. Hopefully, we shall hear from him soon.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Well done, leif, and appreciate the thorough write up.

Hope to peruse the save (assuming I can play from the one you posted in the thread) and post some ideas tomorrow night. Early input welcome.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Great writeup.

This is lots of fun. Great to see how close the competition is!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Excellent news about the Great Engineer. We had 80% chance of success and couldn't be sure of this. How important is it to get another GE? Is it usually a good idea to build The Space Elevator? The wars also seem to be well under way. Capturing Lisbon and getting the MoM should have priority.

Can we run 100% research until we can found Mining Inc?

This is lots of fun. Great to see how close the competition is!

Yes, we have lost our small lead in score compared to MW - possibly because we had some difficulties caused by the culture bomb in Sippar. Anyway, it looks like we are still in contention for laurels of some kind but so are MW, CRC, CFR and Gypsy Kings.

 

[PaulisKhan]

We don't need a second GE other than what could be used to meet golden age requirements.
There's a free GE at fusion and in my own marathon games I've sometimes made a 1-2 turn detour to facism for the free great spy (however on quick speed this might not be so economical, I'm not sure how beaker overflow works).

I haven't built the space elevator since my very first space colony game. The tech detour isn't worth the minor boost since the production bonus isn't applied after other types of hammer multipliers.

SCT has a better inherent understanding of the best end game tech queue than me though.
For my HoF games I'm usually 30-40 turns ahead of the next competitor so I've rarely payed much attention to the last 1-2 turns that can potentially be saved, against this sort of competition though we can't afford to be so lax.

To get to mining inc we still need something like:

steel->steam power->philosophy*->liberalism->railroad->nationalism->guilds*(?)->banking(?)->economics->constitution->corporation

*can be obtained from HC

philosophy and guilds can hopefully be obtained from HC though.
I really should load up the save so I can check this properly but it's late and I'm headed to bed.

I always get Guilds in my games and yet I can't, for the life of me, remember what it's a pre-req for.

 

[leif erikson]

I always get Guilds in my games and yet I can't, for the life of me, remember what it's a pre-req for.

It is the pre-req for Banking I think. I don't see anything else.

Now that we have our Great Engineer, where do we wish to build Ironworks, which will be unlocked next turn?

As I said in the log, I was a bit disappointed to see that Capac has not built the Buddhist shrine, the Gold would have been much appreciated? We would need a Great Prophet?

I think we should acquire at least the two western cities of Capac, then try to get Philosophy and Guilds from him.

 

[PaulisKhan]

right, I normally trade for all the techs down the guilds->banking->economics line which is why I'm a bit fuzzy on it. At a guess we're 11 turns from mining inc assuming we pick up a golden age along the way and save the free market switch until the last minute.


I agree with the plan for Capac.

Steelworks is a tough one and should potentially go in a city that still has trees (for chopping the second to last, or the last component)
Seoul is the perfect city for it, and we don't have an immediate need for IW now that we have our GE. Can we afford to wait 18 turns to capture seoul and bring it out of revolt though?
Cuzco isn't bad and could swap all of those forest preserves for lumbermills (which won't be too bad once they're railroaded).
Lisbon is tolerable (but low on food), can be somewhat alleviated by sid sushi though.

We're going to need 6 cities with banks in order to build wall street. Which raises the question, where do we want wall street built (Corp headquarters).
If we're going to be running 0% research at any point then our capital makes a strong case for it.
The other standard alternative is to build it in a holy shrine city in order to maximise the return.
Temple of Solomon city is the obvious candidate.

Vassals: If we want to pick up future civs (such as the koreans and russians) as vassals then I think we will have to make sure to completely destroy the incans/portugese/babylonians (to push up the average power rating).

I wonder if the sudden jump in murky waters score reflects them picking up a vassal.

 

[Frederiksberg]

right, I normally trade for all the techs down the guilds->banking->economics line which is why I'm a bit fuzzy on it. At a guess we're 11 turns from mining inc assuming we pick up a golden age along the way and save the free market switch until the last minute.

I suppose we can run 100% tech for about that long. I guess this means that we need to soon put some focus on securing cities with metals or coal. Perhaps we should found a city near near the tripple gold and the corn and liberate to our colony.

EDIT: It's not given that we should make the Free Market switch as soon as we have founded Mining Inc. It will depend on a calculation taking into account the loss of gold from windmills and forest preserves (and the extra trade route gained). Of course, as corporate maintenance starts to mount it will become the better choice at some point in time.

Steelworks is a tough one and should potentially go in a city that still has trees (for chopping the second to last, or the last component)
Seoul is the perfect city for it, and we don't have an immediate need for IW now that we have our GE. Can we afford to wait 18 turns to capture seoul and bring it out of revolt though?

Good question. The alternative is to build it in Athens, so waiting means that we loose something like 25-30 hpt. If we wait 20 turns it amounts to something like 600 hammers. I guess it depends on how many turns we are likely to save on the last component. If we can save more than 1 turn it might be worth it.

By the way, how many turns can be saved by launching an incomplete space ship?

Cuzco isn't bad and could swap all of those forest preserves for lumbermills (which won't be too bad once they're railroaded).
Lisbon is tolerable (but low on food), can be somewhat alleviated by sid sushi though.

Sid's Sushi is probably not profitable and will add tons of unwanted culture. If we want a food corporation I think we are better of with Cereal Mills because it has higher profitability (0.75 food per resource) and due to fewer resources it doesn't yield an excessive amount of food that can't be efficiently converted to gold or hammers.

We're going to need 6 cities with banks in order to build wall street. Which raises the question, where do we want wall street built (Corp headquarters).
If we're going to be running 0% research at any point then our capital makes a strong case for it.
The other standard alternative is to build it in a holy shrine city in order to maximise the return.
Temple of Solomon city is the obvious candidate.

Akkad is the place, I think (Temple of Solomon).

 

[Frederiksberg]

Maybe it's time to slow down building units.

We could reserve Argos and Corinth for building military units and then start building Observatories, Courthouses, banks and settlers in the other cities. I think we should consider researching Guilds+Banking quite soon so that we can get started on the 6 banks required to build Wall Street. Best places for banks are cities that have surplus food and the ability to run many merchants. Good examples are Cuzco, Babylon and Piraeus and of course the Wall Street city Akkad. Athens is another place where a bank might be profitable.

Observatory is the most profitable building in most cities. In Ephesus it's about break even with a courthouse and in our overseas (Inca) cities courthouses should be preferred since colonial maintenance is bound to skyrocket there very soon. Settlers can be used to found new cities in the Asian plains for gifting to our colony. Only cities that has metals in the FC. The tripple gold spot is an example and there is also a place in the middle east where we can get 2 metals in the FC.

We can trade horses with Justinian (no need to demand right now). I think we should give some priority to farm the grassland SE of Borsippa to get some growth back there. Around Nippur it seems best to farm one grassland and put a workshop on the other. The watermill SE of Babylon should be converted to a farm. We want to maximize food in our GP farm. Farming the plains/forest NE of Mycenae can also help this city to grow. Instead of preserving the forest W of Corinth we should consider building a lumber mill now that Railroad will soon be available.

It's tempting to go after Lagos first with 5-6 paratroopers because it will likely fall in one turn and with a little luck the airships there will be destroyed.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Have a little time now, more later tonight. Like some feedback on a few specific questions on matters I'll have to deal with:

Why not trade for horses and start building chariot MPs? Won’t we need a bunch of them in Cuzco?

What about delaying a few new paratroopers (which we are accumulating a great many of) in order to build a second airport to facilitate future unit movement, perhaps in Sparta or Corinth or Mycenae (slower to build, but nearer to Portugal units)?

How do Vandal and Atlantis fit into our future plans?

Who do I need to prepare to attack next (other than Ham)? Korea is the quickest to reach.

I understand the value of Machu Picchu, but why we need any other Incan cities escapes me. HC is already ready to be our vassal. (There is another Incan city somewhere in the fog, BTW.)

Leif, do you have an educated estimate of how many and what kinds of units are defending Dur Kuragalzu? Also, how much additional ww will I encounter when I re-engage with Ham?

How about advancing our 5 unpromoted paratroopers on Lagos (enough to take it the following turn) and thereby force Joao to decide between re-basing them or attacking with them and then losing them? (Would hold the remaining troopers to heal.)

Do we plan to capture and keep Leiria?

Note that PK suggests researching Nationalism after Steam Power and RxR. What about a detour there as soon as we, hopefully, obtain Philosophy, so that we can build the Taj and get a golden age sooner?

PK, you also seem to urge we get RxR from Liberalism. Isn’t that inefficient?

What about starting to build Jewish missionaries in one or two non-barracks cities to convert our captured cities, especially those in which we are producing courthouses and other buildings?

Is the plan to build National Epic in Baylon after the NP?

 

[PaulisKhan]

Note that PK suggests researching Nationalism after Steam Power and RxR. What about a detour there as soon as we, hopefully, obtain Philosophy, so that we can build the Taj and get a golden age sooner?

Nationalism before Steam Power is definitely an option, although I like to get steam power reasonably early so that coal resources can be located and hooked up asap for mining inc.

PK, you also seem to urge we get RxR from Liberalism. Isn’t that inefficient?

RR is the most expensive tech on the way to Mining Inc, the benefits of the corp are usually such that getting it earlier outweighs the additional beakers that could be gained by picking up a more expensive tech later. This is something that can be solved by maths though.

This game is much more complicated and so alot of my suggestions are often misguided, we have a lot more factors to consider such as the loss of switching out of Environmentalism and into free market (lost happy and gpt vs +1 trade route per city) which maybe we should count up). We also have to figure out how best to secure the resources now. I'm a bit annoyed at myself for not having pushed us to more aggressively lock down the worlds resources, everything happens so quickly on quick speed >.<
If australia has 2 metal resources then we should be sending two settlers down there and liberating a new colony.
We still have metals on our home continent that aren't hooked up.
We have that triple gold cluster south of Korea to do something about, we have a cluster of metals in the middle east to secure, we have russia and korea to vassalise/conquer-liberate, we have to figure out the best way to take control of shakas metal.

Is the plan to build National Epic in Baylon after the NP?

I thought we had built NE in Pireaus (shows how much attention I've been paying to certain details >.<)?
If we haven't then Babylon is definitely the place for it.

-edit- grrr, now I'm really annoyed at myself.

Ok we need to do something very important now. We have 8 turns worth of hammers in which to make some gold.
My suggestion
Ephesus puts 3 turns into NE and then removes it from the build queue-Athens finishes its Paratrooper puts 1 turn into courthouse and then puts 2 turns into NE before removing it from the queue - Sparta then puts 3 turns into HE before removing it from the queue - Babylon finishes NP and swaps to NE. Once it is completed then we cash in all the hammers invested in the NE in the 3 other cities.

Once this is completed we then repeat it for the hermitage however instead of completing the hermitage somewhere useful, we complete is in a throwaway city on the other continent and gift the city away with hermitage inside, this then lets us repeat the process all over again for cash at a much more efficient rate than just building wealth

 

[leif erikson]

Maybe it's time to slow down building units.

Believe it or not, I agree with this. We are not losing many of them, so we can slow the number we are producing. The only caveat from me is that I'm not sure what our next moves will be?

Why not trade for horses and start building chariot MPs? Won’t we need a bunch of them in Cuzco?

This perplexed me a bit. Reading the Civlopedia, I expected to have access to them, as when in an alliance. When I did not see them once they were connected, I decided to wait and ask. I think we should trade for them also, perhaps give him some happy and health resources so he can grow.

What about delaying a few new paratroopers (which we are accumulating a great many of) in order to build a second airport to facilitate future unit movement, perhaps in Sparta or Corinth or Mycenae (slower to build, but nearer to Portugal units)?

I'd really like to see an Airport in Argos, as our primary unit production center, there is great advantage in being able to ship that unit anywhere a friendly city exists the turn it is produced.

Not sure I want to give up the two and a half Paratroopers that would be produced there while the Airport is being built.

How do Vandal and Atlantis fit into our future plans?

I don't think they do. Atlantis will be useless to us as far as I can see. Vandal, with Christianity, might be of some use if we have a Great Prophet and build a bunch or missionaries. No city razing is on, we take it, we own it!

Who do I need to prepare to attack next (other than Ham)? Korea is the quickest to reach.

It would be nice if Wang built the shrine in Seoul?

Taking Korea would be the gateway to Russia.

I understand the value of Machu Picchu, but why we need any other Incan cities escapes me. HC is already ready to be our vassal. (There is another Incan city somewhere in the fog, BTW.)

Do we want HC as a vassal?

There are both Iron and Uranium on the island to the south of HC. Do you suppose HC has a city to the south of Ollantaytanbo?

Leif, do you have an educated estimate of how many and what kinds of units are defending Dur Kuragalzu? Also, how much additional ww will I encounter when I re-engage with Ham?

Last time I looked, there were 3 LB's, a Mace and a couple of Swords. The info is from three turns ago.

How about advancing our 5 unpromoted paratroopers on Lagos (enough to take it the following turn) and thereby force Joao to decide between re-basing them or attacking with them and then losing them? (Would hold the remaining troopers to heal.)

That would be OK with me. We can strike Lisbon from there quickly.

Do we plan to capture and keep Leiria?

Yes, it was in the plan to build a city there iirc.

What about starting to build Jewish missionaries in one or two non-barracks cities to convert our captured cities, especially those in which we are producing courthouses and other buildings?

As we have time, why not!

Do we want to convert to Buddhism to make nice with Shaka? Or will it be Free Religion when we take Paya?

Is the plan to build National Epic in Babylon after the NP?

This is what I understood.

HC (Capac) has Divine Right too. We need that to build Versailles. It would help to have that in Capac's old haunt?

 

[PaulisKhan]

Sid's Sushi is probably not profitable and will add tons of unwanted culture. If we want a food corporation I think we are better of with Cereal Mills because it has higher profitability (0.75 food per resource) and due to fewer resources it doesn't yield an excessive amount of food that can't be efficiently converted to gold or hammers.

The problem with Cereal Mills is that it requires an extra tech that is off the tech path (currently 4 turns to research) whereas we already have medicine for Sushi and will pick up the free GM on the way to corps and thus be able to incorporate with out any deviations from our plan (and own a good number of resources for it). This one is a just a straight maths argument though and you may be correct.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Fred, I've noted your worker suggestions and will incorporate in my plan.

"Ephesus puts 3 turns into NE and then removes it from the build queue-Athens finishes its Paratrooper puts 1 turn into courthouse and then puts 2 turns into NE before removing it from the queue - Sparta then puts 3 turns into HE before removing it from the queue - Babylon finishes NP and swaps to NE. Once it is completed then we cash in all the hammers invested in the NE in the 3 other cities." Got it.

"Once this is completed we then repeat it for the hermitage however instead of completing the hermitage somewhere useful, we complete is in a throwaway city (Not sure how fast a throwaway city will produce 200 hammers. Thinking this would only make sense if throwaway city has little else but multiple forests to chop, but that might be hard to find. )on the other continent and gift the city away with hermitage inside, this then lets us repeat the process all over again for cash at a much more efficient rate than just building wealth When you subtract the 200 hammers that we would in effect be gifting, are you sure this is so efficient. Wouldn't it be better to do this with wonders that would eventually be somewhat useful, like Mt. Rushmore and Broadway?


&#8220;I'd really like to see an Airport in Argos, as our primary unit production center, there is great advantage in being able to ship that unit anywhere a friendly city exists the turn it is produced. Not sure I want to give up the two and a half Paratroopers that would be produced there while the Airport is being built.&#8221; I don&#8217;t think that the delay in sending our troops made in Argos to a different airport city will make a great deal of difference after the first two or three get in line, so would argue for the airport elsewhere and maximize use of hammers in Argos by continuously producing units at its accelerated rate.

&#8220;Do we want HC as a vassal?&#8221; The alternative is to eliminate all his cities, and that doesn&#8217;t seem to be optimal use of our forces, or we can make peace and leave him an insignificant civ (at least temporarily). Would that be preferable to vassalage? What problems would be created if he became someone else&#8217;s vassal?&#8220;There are both Iron and Uranium on the island to the south of HC. Do you suppose HC has a city to the south of Ollantaytanbo?&#8221; Seems more likely he&#8217;d have one to the north. If there is an Incan city in southern Australia, I don&#8217;t think we should take time to deal with it now anyway.
&#8220;Do we want to convert to Buddhism to make nice with Shaka?&#8221; What might we gain by strengthening our relationship with Shaka?
&#8220;HC (Capac) has Divine Right too. We need that to build Versailles. It would help to have that in Capac's old haunt?&#8221; Versailles is hammer intensive, not sure it&#8217;s worth it, which makes DR much less desirable than Philosophy or Guilds. One problem with quitting the war after Machu Picchu is that we probably aren&#8217;t going to be able to extort both of them. Would opt for Phil, since we are half way to Guilds already.

 

[PaulisKhan]

When you subtract the 200 hammers that we would in effect be gifting, are you sure this is so efficient. Wouldn't it be better to do this with wonders that would eventually be somewhat useful, like Mt. Rushmore and Broadway?

The reason for doing it with Hermitage rather than Rushmore is the +100% hammer bonus it gets from marble, this is the aspect that really makes it worthile.
We can decide if we need to repeat the process using the gifting method once we've got hammers dumped into it across a number of cities. Rushmore also requires a diversion from the primary tech path.


Regarding HC: If we want to vassalise WK or Stalin then we may need to destroy HC completely (to bring the average power rating up). We shouldn't vassalise him though, not enough to gain and too much to lose.
Remember we can always just gift any of his cities we don't like to Justin who gains an immediate 2 free riflemen to defend it, thus freeing up our troopers for further conquest.

 

[Frederiksberg]

What about delaying a few new paratroopers (which we are accumulating a great many of) in order to build a second airport to facilitate future unit movement, perhaps in Sparta or Corinth or Mycenae (slower to build, but nearer to Portugal units)?

There are a couple of paratrooper builds where we have no hammers invested. I think we should change them to some useful building. A 2nd airport would make sense in Ephesus servicing the Portuguese cities. In general I think we should only build military units in Argos and Corinth from now on. We already have 24 paratroopers.

How do Vandal and Atlantis fit into our future plans?

We don't have any paratroopers with the amphibious promotion so taking Atlantis seems to be out of the question. Vandal could be captured as a part of an attack on some of Shaka's cities.

Who do I need to prepare to attack next (other than Ham)? Korea is the quickest to reach.

Korea is clearly an option with a couple of large cities and if we build the FP in an Inca city the Korean cities will also have a moderate reduction in maintenance.

I understand the value of Machu Picchu, but why we need any other Incan cities escapes me. HC is already ready to be our vassal. (There is another Incan city somewhere in the fog, BTW.)

Not sure that we want any vassals. Their territory counts toward domination. Better to capture the cities we want for ourselves or for our colony and leave the rest. We could perhaps go directly for Korea after Machu Picchu.

How about advancing our 5 unpromoted paratroopers on Lagos (enough to take it the following turn) and thereby force Joao to decide between re-basing them or attacking with them and then losing them? (Would hold the remaining troopers to heal.)

Yes, do this. Perhaps use 6 to be sure of capturing in 1 turn. Note that there is a paratrooper in Ephesus that can help. My guess is that the airships will bomb and then be lost when we capture.

Do we plan to capture and keep Leiria?

Yes, and remember there is no city razing. It may culture flip before the war is over.

Note that PK suggests researching Nationalism after Steam Power and RxR. What about a detour there as soon as we, hopefully, obtain Philosophy, so that we can build the Taj and get a golden age sooner?

I guess he means after we have Mining Inc. available i.e. after Corporation is also researched. I don't see any reason to delay Mining Inc. and it will only take 10 turns to get there if we send the GM from Piraeus on a trade mission.

What about starting to build Jewish missionaries in one or two non-barracks cities to convert our captured cities, especially those in which we are producing courthouses and other buildings?

It's a good question and it really depends on how much longer we will be in OR. At some point Free Religion might be better for the extra happy faces and 10% extra beakers. I think observatories and courthouses and even settlers are more important than missionaries.

Is the plan to build National Epic in Baylon after the NP?

Yes, and we already have a library there.

The problem with Cereal Mills is that it requires an extra tech that is off the tech path (currently 4 turns to research) whereas we already have medicine for Sushi and will pick up the free GM on the way to corps and thus be able to incorporate with out any deviations from our plan (and own a good number of resources for it). This one is a just a straight maths argument though and you may be correct.

I doubt that any of the food corporations are worth a considerable investment like an extra tech. Perhaps it's better to found Sushi then and use it only in our GP farm. Might be a few other cities where it's profitable but in general it seems to be too expensive. And the extra culture from Sushi won't harm us in Babylon.

 

[Cactus Pete]

The reason for doing it with Hermitage rather than Rushmore is the +100% hammer bonus it gets from marble, this is the aspect that really makes it worthile. We can decide if we need to repeat the process using the gifting method once we've got hammers dumped into it across a number of cities. Rushmore also requires a diversion from the primary tech path.Don't follow you here, PK. Rushmore gets 100% from stone and is already available to build.

Regarding HC: If we want to vassalise WK or Stalin then we may need to destroy HC completely (to bring the average power rating up). We shouldn't vassalise him though, not enough to gain and too much to lose. Okay, then the decision is peace or elimination, and peace is much quicker, plus it allows us to extort a tech(s) for peace. I've no idea how average power rating influences vassalage. Can you easily educate me? Also, why are you looking forward to vassalizing Russia and/or Korea but fear the consequences with the Incas?
Remember we can always just gift any of his cities we don't like to Justin who gains an immediate 2 free riflemen to defend it, thus freeing up our troopers for further conquest.

Follow this, but if we capture all the Incan cities we can't extort for tech.

 

[Cactus Pete]

There are a couple of paratrooper builds where we have no hammers invested. I think we should change them to some useful building. Will look at that and post in plan. A 2nd airport would make sense in Ephesus servicing the Portuguese cities. Pk wants NE for the next three turns in Ephesus and I'm inclined to think that may be best use. Portuguese cities won't need much service for a while and will not be building many units. Units there now can be moved to Korea via galleons. Moreover, units produced there right now can be put into action there right now. Like airport elsewhere. Having looked at the save more closely, now strongly favor Sparta for immediate airport build. In general I think we should only build military units in Argos and Corinth from now on. We already have 24 paratroopers. Reluctant to slow troop build up that radically -- we have civs to conquer -- but will look at this when I post plan.

We don't have any paratroopers with the amphibious promotion so taking Atlantis seems to be out of the question. Vandal could be captured as a part of an attack on some of Shaka's cities. Okay.

Korea is clearly an option with a couple of large cities and if we build the FP in an Inca city the Korean cities will also have a moderate reduction in maintenance. Korea will be next, unless dissension is voiced.

Not sure that we want any vassals. Their territory counts toward domination. Better to capture the cities we want for ourselves or for our colony and leave the rest. We could perhaps go directly for Korea after Machu Picchu.That's my thinking, but I've yet to get PK on board. May turn out it's best to first sail some Inca troops to finish off Joao before moving on to Korea, especially if I deploy newly minted paras against Ham in two turns.

Yes, do this. Perhaps use 6 to be sure of capturing in 1 turn. Note that there is a paratrooper in Ephesus that can help. My guess is that the airships will bomb and then be lost when we capture. Will do, unless disagreement is posted.

Yes, and remember there is no city razing. It may culture flip before the war is over. Then perhaps I can take it late in the war.

I guess he means after we have Mining Inc. available i.e. after Corporation is also researched. I don't see any reason to delay Mining Inc. and it will only take 10 turns to get there if we send the GM from Piraeus on a trade mission. Not clear what you're getting at here, Fred. Please clarify.

It's a good question and it really depends on how much longer we will be in OR. At some point Free Religion might be better for the extra happy faces and 10% extra beakers. I think observatories and courthouses and even settlers are more important than missionaries. Would argue that missionaries are cheaper and can be produced in cities that will struggle to produce anything else in a timely manner; plus, their benefits include a happy face. Will try to produce settlers where city growth is minimal. Someone is going to have to convince me that OR won't be optimal for some time, given all the buildings we need and wonders being built or being partially built, not to mention the growing cost of revolution.

Yes, and we already have a library there. Understood.

I doubt that any of the food corporations are worth a considerable investment like an extra tech. Perhaps it's better to found Sushi then and use it only in our GP farm. Might be a few other cities where it's profitable but in general it seems to be too expensive. And the extra culture from Sushi won't harm us in Babylon.

No experience with corporations and really don't understand the arguments. Is there anything here relevant to my turn set?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Need help deciding where and when to build Ironworks.

Tentative build plan:
Athens>paratrooper>courthouse(1turn)>NE(2 turns)>courthouse
Piraeus>Xbow>missionary
Delphi>airship>settler
Sparta>airport> NE(2 turns)>settler
Corinth>NE(3TURNS, SINCE EPHESUS ISN'T CONVERTED)>paratrooper
Thebes>paratrooper>observatory
Argos>paratroopers
Knossos>lighthouse>chariot
Mycenae>paratroopers until converted
Pharsalos>frigate>missionary>observatory(2turns)>NE(1turn)>obs'y
Ephesus>PARATROOPER
Babylon>NP>NE
Akkad>university>missionary
Nippur>granary>chariot
Borsippa>granary>lighthouse
Sippar>forge

 

[leif erikson]

Need help deciding where and when to build Ironworks.

How about in Cuzco? Lots of food, lots of hammers, lots of population and lots of forests.
12 turns to wait and needs a Forge...