SGOTM 10 - FuzzyWuzzy Psycho Bunnies

[gozpel]

Goz --
Denyd --
Sanabas --
Classical Hero-- up
CKS -- on deck
Whomp--

Let's build that curragh in the town by the sheep and York's next warrior can go S to check out the lands there.

London starts granary and should be helped by a couple of chops if possible.

As for the next 50 turns, just spawn and grab land and at the same time push science. Some more workers are always welcome.

Not much else to do at this stage really. But landgrabbing is an artform, so we shouldn't sit back and wait for the granary to happen. When York built warrior/worker, it can start a settler so we can complete the "ring" around London. Together with my last dot, we can fit in another couple of towns there, where of one will be coastal for future shipbuilding.

 

[classical_hero]

I've got it. Will play later today.

Preturn. I finish off the previous turn and I move the settler towards our chosen spot.

IBT. The incans are moving.

Turn one. More explorations and road building.

IBT. More Ai exploration.

Turn 2. I meet the Dutch. We are up Masonry and CB to them.


A warrior found some goats to the south of us.

IBT. :zzz:

Turn 3. I found Nottingham and immediately start to build a curragh for exploration in the other area from the other one.

IBT. More of the same.

Turn 4. More exploration.

IBT. The Sumerians are building the Oracle.

Turn 5. More exploration.

IBT. Nothing

Turn 6. I met the Byzantines. They are the same technologically to us.


IBT. zzz

Turn 7. More exploration.

IBT. Some incans are near an undefended city with a Chasqui Scout.

Turn 8. I send the other curragh out exploring.

IBT. No attack thankfully.

Turn 9. We get Writing and now we are going for CoL.

IBT. The Mayans ar building the Pyramids.

Turn 10. More exploration.

Here is our core as I leave it.


By the looks of it, every nation is on our continent so this creates an opportunity for us. Either we can create a close relationship with our neighbours and get techss quicker, or we can make ourselves so big by eliminating our other nations that we will have the forces to overtake the Barbarian nation. My fellings is that we get faster technologies because we can need help in getiing better techs for eventual invasion of the Barbarian nation.

Also as I have explored the area I have noticed that there are alot of resources for us to use and grow strong. Provided are two screenies of our potential growth areas.
NE


SW


The Save.

 

[CKS]

Things look good. Between the goats and the sheep, we have some nice tiles nearby.

I've got it and will probably play tomorrow, unless I get some time this evening.

 

[gozpel]

Not much going on here and we're losing the spam-race too.

CKS probably play this already, but I have to mention I don't like the look of all mining going on.

We're mining a hill ? By York and we should irrigate the floodplain. And Nottingham is getting a mine too, when (if I'm not wrong) irrigating the sheep would give us 3 food.

And 5 turns left to granary, we need to get that wheat irrigated. 5 food/turn is the best we can wish for, it's time to get in to gear.

And I won't mention the other MM-ing issues I saw in the save....this time.

 

[classical_hero]

It would be better to say what you wanted to say about my MM skill, or the lack thereof.

 

[CKS]

Here is the save. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm10/FuzzyWuzzy_SG010_BC1750_01.SAV

Turn 0: Swap York to the wheat for now. Stop both miners.
IBT: Barbs steal our military plans, we catch their agent.

Turn 1: Worker east to irrigate north of York, bringing water to the sheep. Other worker goes west to the wheat. Swap Nottingham to the oysters for extra commerce. Explore.
IBT: Sumeria asks us to leave, Nottingham finishes warrior, starts barracks.

Turn 2: Fortify the new worker, irrigate the wheat, swap Nottingham back to the sheep, explore.
IBT: Byzantines ask us to leave, Nottingham grows.

Turn 3: Explore.
IBT: London finishes granary, starts settler. Byzantines and Inca learn writing.

Turn 4: Decide not to trade writing; the others don't have iron working either, so I think it is unlikely the AI will trade. Ann goes east to chop the other forest. Explore, see barb camp, but AI will probably disperse it.
IBT: York riots, London grows. I got interrupted on this turn and forgot to fix the happiness problem, sorry.

Turn 5: Lux to 30%. Irrigate sheep, Ann chops. Explore.
IBT: Finish irrigating wheat.

Turn 6: Give wheat to London. Wk goes to floodplain. Explore.
IBT: Dutch start Colossus, Inca start Oracle.

Turn 7: Wk roads floodplain, Explore.
IBT: Booted from Sumeria, Barbs start Colossus.

Turn 8: Explore.
IBT: Chop settler, Maya learn iron working, London starts worker.

Turn 9: Ann roads, Settler and warrior start south, worker goes southwest by Nottingham to road and irrigate.
IBT: Inca start Colossus.

Turn 10: Warrior fortifies in York, worker irrigates FP, settler and warrior go south, Science to 90%, swap wheat to York, Nottingham gets irrigated plains this turn.

The settler is headed one more step south, to the plains one tile west of the lake by both goats.

The Maya will trade iron working or horseback riding for writing. We might want to make this trade.

The Mayflower has found a chain of islands to the south.

Here is a screenshot:

 

[Whomp]

Nice turnset CKS. I got it.

It looks like my turnset will be focused on worker tasks, growth and finding nickels for Goz. I'd lean towards trading for HBR first since there are enough hills around that I'm pretty confident we have iron but would like to find the horses. I plan to focus on workers/settlers and where necessary vet warriors. Upgrade for swords later? Also there's less risk of destructive sabotage from the barbs by building warriors versus swords.

Help me here it's been since SGOTM8 since I played SGOTM (thank goodness no SGOTM9 )

I forgot how the modded bonus resources work clams, sheep, olives etc. Do any of them count for luxs? I can't find a lux on CKS' picture.

Any other thoughts?


To Classical Hero--Always remember "growth is power".

The reason you don't work hills is they don't give any benefits food wise, shield wise in despot and are the hardest tiles to develop. They should be the last items we develop since our cities won't be much larger than 2-6 for awhile and the cities won't use a hill because they'll be working developed food tiles. I'm not even sure if the bonus food hills are a priority since they can't increase the food they generate until we're out of despot so mines are not helpful.

Bonus food tiles are a priority along with river tiles for commerce and the bgs. In fact, hills will likely be developed after some jungles and marshes have been developed because they can be grass (bg and commerce) tiles as well.

 

[denyd]

Wool & Cotton are the luxuries in the med set and I don't see any either. Lots of food & commerce bonus tiles however.

From the look of the map, my thinking would be to expand quickly and then think about taking out the Inca and maybe the Mayans, while helping Sumer boost research.

Is it possible to accidently win via domination before the Barbarians are gone?

 

[CKS]

There are several wine luxes (by Sumer, Tiwanaku, and down to the south), but I don't remember running across any others. It's a pity that we don't have any wool to go along with our sheep and goats.

I expect that we could accidentally win by domination, but I don't think that it will be an issue until we get well into our invasion of the barbs. It looks like they will have a lot of land all to themselves.

 

[Whomp]

Pre-turn: Put the governor on "emphasize production". Check the trade situation out. The Byz and Incans are tech leaders with myst, wheel and IW plus they each have writing so the barbs do as well. Our republic sling looks to be at risk. The Mayans are missing are down writing but have the other 3 techs. The Sums are missing IW and writing and the Dutch are down myst, wheel writing.

Start with the Mayans and trade writing for IW. There's an iron deposit 2S of York. Good.
The only other deposits I see are outside of Sumer and another 5 tiles from Machu Pichu and 6 from a Byz city.
Then trade IW to Gilgamesh for myst and 38g
Then trade myst and 9g to William for wheel. Cool there's a horse 1 NE 1 W of York however it's also right outside the Incan cultural border. The Incans have HBR plus 3 visible horses and one hooked up.
Me may need to either pack in a flippable city or build a temple or lib to cover the horses.

IT
11725 I try a sea square with our curragh and it reveals a few more. Send it two more but it looks like ocean dead ends it.
Sumerians get maths but no deals for writing. London grows so lux to 20%. York and Nottingham will grow next.

IT Our curragh survives
21700 Establish Hastings start a warrior and reveal a barb camp that the Incans are going after. Ann finishes her road, moves to a bg commerce tile at London and starts a mine. The curragh continues across ocean squares heading straight west.

IT The Incan loses but another barb appears out of the fog. London finishes a worker and starts a settler. Our curragh sinks in treacherous waters.
31675 Our new worker Bea moves to a commerce plains tile.

IT barb approaches Hastings some chasquis fly around. Nottingham rax--> warrior
41650 Bea starts a road and Fuzzy finishes his irrigation and starts a road. Bunny finishes the fp work and moves to a grass commerce tile. Bubba moves along the mountains and Willie heads home. Mayflower continues to scout out the islands.

IT barbs face go toe to toe with the AI.
51625 Bunny starts a road since Ann will finish her mine in 3.

IT both the barb and barb camp are whacked by Incans.
61600 London grows and requires 40% lux. Move a couple tiles around since some roads will finish on the IT. Move some warriors around to quell the citizens in London.

IT Nottingham warrior--> warrior Hastings warrior -->worker Mayans start the Oracle
71575 Move a warrior into London. Lux back to 20%. Bea and Fuzzy start irrigation on commerce plains. Incans and Byz gets maths from Sumeria while Sumeria gets HBR from Incans. Incans flushed all the cash and have 185g.

IT See dyes within Nicaea.
1550 London grows and will finish a settler at pop 6 with no waste. Ann and Bunny each start mines.

IT Lots of AI movement including 4 Mayans on a volcano.
1525 Lux back to 30% for York's growth. Bea and Fuzzy finish the irrigation and they move to a commerce grass and a plains tile by York. York gets the sheep since Nottingham will grow and finish the warrior without it.

IT London settler --> settler Nottingham warrior--> worker
1500 Fuzzy starts a road.

SummaryWe can either hire a taxman in York and finish CoL in 1 or keep lux up at 30% for York. The granary is finishing next in York but we may want to switch to a temple since that looks like the only way to get horses inside our borders. I'm not sure the capital is ready yet for 4 turners but it's close. I left a settler who's ready to roll. I'd think to the hill west of the iron.

I thought about this after I posted but moving a warrior to York and a scientist in Nottingam could also work. I'm sure Goz will figure something out.


The Save

A visual..

 

[sanabas]

I would go for the northern of Goz's two red dots first, as it adds a 3 food/2 shield tile, with an irrigated sheep. ... The eastern worker should irrigate to the sheep for the new city.

It would be better to say what you wanted to say about my MM skill, or the lack thereof.

I haven't looked at the save, so no idea what other issues there are. Mining food bonuses is a big one though. +5 food lets us grow every 2 turns with no wastage. The only tiles that can get us above +2 food per turn are food bonuses, and the only tiles we can usefully irrigate in despotism are food bonuses and flood plains. It's even worse as a plains sheep is a base of 2 shields, so after mining it is 3 minus 1 for despotism penalty = 2 again. So the mine has no effect. I'd guess the other MM issues involved wastage of shields & food that could have been diverted to food or commerce.

Pre-turn: Put the governor on "emphasize production".

We all missed that? Oops.

 

[gozpel]

It would be better to say what you wanted to say about my MM skill, or the lack thereof.

Sorry for sounding like a muttering lardass, but what Whomp and sanabas said is true.

Never stop using tiles with food-bonus, it simply slows you down. The best thing that can happen in any game is to get 5fpt and nothing can stop you from there, if you just keep it going.

Second thing is, if we want to try for a slingshot, we want to use commercial tiles as much as possible. Not to the extent that we cripple growth or halt builds, but always try to keep an eye on what tiles are best for us -> every turn.

Sometime I have to fiddle around to get it right myself, but I take my time to check it, sometimes 3-4 times. Per turn.

classical_hero - I didn't want to sound like an expert or anything and making ppl upset for "my wishes" in a team-game, so I thought you would go over your last save again. Next time I will be clear, and believe me, you will hear it.

Good turns after that, but what are you thinking plopping down a town down there. I thought I said we would have a good 3 more towns to squeeze in around London?

Nevermind, who the hell cares about corruption anyways? Not me.

At least we've got the irrigation in place now.

I think we'll lose the slingshot, if so many AI's already knew Writing. With so few towns, we can't make Philo quick enough...1500BC I'm normally up close to 10 towns by this date.

What to do now? It all depends on what I see when I see the save.

 

[gozpel]

Tough luck!

Preturn - Nottingham get the chore to lose their excessive food for a turn or two and we won't even have to use a scientist. York works at 4fpt and granary next turn.

CoL next turn.

Sumeria is ahead in techs and Dutch slightly behind, no major dramas here.

1475BC - Scout a bit. A bunch of AI-troops heads to the west of London, hunting barbs I guess.

Nottingham get a harder job, use a scientist there to get Philo in 9t. No growth at all there, York uses the sheep and builds a settler in 5t.

Swap Hasting from worker to settler, let it work a fish. It's time we get some expansion on.

1450BC - Sumeria completes the Oracle and starts the Pyramids.

Our cities aren't optimized, so a scientist in Nottingham is hired and growth slowed in York. But Philo in 7t, which is more important.

Swap Nottingham to settler btw.

Dutch picked up Writing somehow, so no free gold from them.

1425BC - Theodora wants our troops? (dingy) to leave her shores.

Inca starts Pyramids.

Fuzzy helps Ann to build that darn mine on grass and Ann moves on to connect Hastings.

1400BC - Incan warriors kills 2 barbs threatening Hastings.

Coventry founded - >worker.

1375BC - London settler -> settler. Send him west.

The wife and the daughter kicks me off the computor. They have some match to play.

Restarting - What was the frigging save? I name saves like 111 - 222 and so on, can't find it and have to go autosave. I hate interuptions, especially when I'm tired.

1350BC - Not much, a Hittite archer enters our territory, let him walk freely.

1325BC - The Barbarians start the Great Lighthouse AND The Pyramids!

York settler -> settler. Send settler to marsh and fishes.

Drats, Philo dropped to 1t. We might've lost the slingshot.

1300BC - We learn Philo.....and then nothing when I look for Republic.

And then the Barbs starts MOM.

Now what? Give it 70% on Republic, we want that anyways.

Can't figure out our "settler-factory", the hill need to be mined or at least a plain to get those missing shields. Haven't even started that yet, thought road were better. Ah well. We get a couple of settlers anyways from other towns soon.

I make some deals then:

Sell Philo to Inca for their 231g.
Philo And 116g to Byz for MapMaking. Another crap, thought I could get more for it than that.
Maps to Maya for Maths and their 1g.
Philo to Sumeria for HBR and 21g.
Dutch get HBR for their 35g.

Bugger! I thought I could do better than that, but unfortunately Inca was the leaders with the techs and the gold.

Build embassies in Inca and Sumeria, that will do for now, so the research can keep on going. We got 115g losing 3gpt right now, only Nottingham is the grumpy town and it need another MP. Well after the settler.

1275BC - Nottingham settler -> worker. Send him to grab a spot N by the coast.

Warwick is founded -> warrior.

1250BC - London settler -> settler. Send him to the forgotten hill from my dotmap.

Newcastle founded in the marshes, it has 3 food, so -> worker.

Settler SE of London must settle on that hill next turn and other settler NE of Nottingham walk one more step up and then settle.

Bunny the worker is chopping for another settler from York, we've been dawdling long enough. We need those towns and should've had them already.

So we lost the slingshot, which I don't think many other teams did.

If we want to even think to win this, we can't be sloppy anymore. Every shield, every gold counts...and yeah, so does food.

So how do we win from this situation?

Well, the barbs think they will.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm10/FuzzyWuzzy_SG010_BC1250_01.SAV

 

[denyd]

Nice set - I should be able to play tonight

It looks like my objective for this set should be to add as many new towns as possible. Also to keep research moving along as fast a possible. We can probably use Republic to finish off the AA techs if we get it first. Does anyone want to publish an updated dot map?

We should also consider adding a bit more military to keep the wolves a bay for a while. Sumer is going to run out of space soon and we're a tempting target. I normally don't build any military in the AA except Swords (or warriors to upgrade) & Horses. Do we have any spear, archer or catapult proponents?

Now that we've got Map Making, a galley or two might be nice (though they are restricted to coast/sea tiles) to help explore/settle the SW islands. Any guesses where the Barbarian Nation is located?

 

[Whomp]

I was able to send a curragh across and made it through the sea tiles but sunk in ocean tiles. That last curragh should be used where we see some open sea tiles.

I think we can turn research down a notch, if you need cash, to upgrade vet warriors to swords.

 

[sanabas]

Now that we've got Map Making, a galley or two might be nice (though they are restricted to coast/sea tiles) to help explore/settle the SW islands. Any guesses where the Barbarian Nation is located?

Keep expanding to fill our own island would be first I think. Hopefully missing the sling doesn't cost us too badly, and we can use a republic monopoly to trade for most of the rest of the AA. As for the barbs, we appear to be on a big continent in the East, with all? the other AIs, so I'd guess the barbs have a big western continent to themselves. If we've met all the other AIs, maybe send the dinghies out on suicide missions? If they survive the first turn, they move 5 ocean tiles per turn after that. As for dotmap, I'll do one when I look at the save tomorrow, if nobody else does one first.

 

[gozpel]

If we want to even think to win this, we can't be sloppy anymore.

That quote by myself makes me regret that I bought MapMaking. A few more curraghs would certainly helped us to find the barbs, the AI won't send suicide boats.

Sorry for that oversight.

I think we can start to slot in a couple of barracks any time soon and start to build some military, we don't want to be surprised.

We still have monopoly on CoL (I think) for what that's worth and we've done only 2-3 turns research on Republic. Maybe we want to research Literature instead, so we can build libraries?

 

[Whomp]

That quote by myself makes me regret that I bought MapMaking. A few more curraghs would certainly helped us to find the barbs, the AI won't send suicide boats.

Sorry for that oversight.

No worries. That's an easy mistake to make and really unless there were two curraghs running across the seas together it's pretty tough to keep them afloat.

I think we can start to slot in a couple of barracks any time soon and start to build some military, we don't want to be surprised.

We still have monopoly on CoL (I think) for what that's worth and we've done only 2-3 turns research on Republic. Maybe we want to research Literature instead, so we can build libraries?

Hmm...I guess I don't see any libraries being built soon when we still have expansion needs, rax and units to make. I'd stay on republic but build enough cash for upgrades on a pile of vet warriors to swords.

 

[denyd]

RL is going to delay my turnset for a day - any comments, ideas or suggestions happily received for the next 22 hours.

 

[gozpel]

Whomp, I guess you're right, it's just that I worry about the future research rate. But it's too early to worry about that. Keep the research on Rep.

So continue the expansion, denyd and if you find a suitable town or two for barracks, we can start that.