SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
^ Do we need Pac after the next GP, though? We won't get a 4-GP golden age.
Novgorod has great production, so we shouldn't whip there.
Honestly, I almost don't care what we tech past MT, so I'll go with team consensus on tech. Cossacks should be plenty for now. I'd get going on the conquest, and see where we stand later.
Can anyone play a set today? Otherwise, I can play tmr night.
Novgorod has great production, so we shouldn't whip there.
Honestly, I almost don't care what we tech past MT, so I'll go with team consensus on tech. Cossacks should be plenty for now. I'd get going on the conquest, and see where we stand later.
Can anyone play a set today? Otherwise, I can play tmr night.
shyuhe
Deity
I can't play any more today. I agree that MT + nukes will be all we need until we start tackling the islands.
I don't think we'll get a 4 GP golden age so the question is whether we want slavery or caste. We'll have to start farming over some of those workshops near St. P if we want to put the whip to work.
edit: don't forget that we have military science now, so all GG should be used for academies (especially Moscow and Novgorod).
I don't think we'll get a 4 GP golden age so the question is whether we want slavery or caste. We'll have to start farming over some of those workshops near St. P if we want to put the whip to work.
edit: don't forget that we have military science now, so all GG should be used for academies (especially Moscow and Novgorod).
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
^^ i agree with mdy about civics... I believe xp will be a non factor... actually I like FR more if we want to leave pacifism to limit dogpilling...
Depending on when I finish my other SG, I will try to play some turns, unless mdy wants to take some turns. Otherwise, I am happy to wait for u BBP... I've already planned to not sleep this week end to finish this
edit: please don't touch shops in Moscow/Novgorod...
i wouldn't touch the others too but will go with team consensus.
Depending on when I finish my other SG, I will try to play some turns, unless mdy wants to take some turns. Otherwise, I am happy to wait for u BBP... I've already planned to not sleep this week end to finish this
edit: please don't touch shops in Moscow/Novgorod...
i wouldn't touch the others too but will go with team consensus.shyuhe
Deity
Sorry, I meant the shops near St. P (and not overlapping with Moscow). Although now that I think about it, it may not even be an irrigable tile because of the watermills. And I'm assuming you mean FR, not FS? Free speech would be a disaster. FR is ok - I don't think we'll have much use for GP after the upcoming merchant.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Yeah FR sorry, editing... 
@RRRaskolnikov, I think you should play some turns if you have the time. I'll pick it up tmr night... After having to defend that DOW from Gandhi, I can't hardly wait to nuke the bastard.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I just finished my round in Taxman SG, and I need to be at work in about 6 hours... So I'll let you the honor 
After looking at the save more carefully, I'm not entirely sure about whipping long term. We have pretty decent base production, and lose some by leaving Caste. Quick border pops in new cities are nice, too. If we're agreed on GT in Yaroslavl', btw, that will be the bottleneck. We still need 11t for a GM, and then some time to get GT up. We also can't switch to slavery until after the GM. I would hold the golden age 1-2t, so I can get the GM in time to switch civics at the end. Do we wanna string the two golden ages together? Maybe I can play to the end of the first one, then evaluate civic timing again (figure out the optimal time to start the next golden age).
We get cheap drydocks being AGG, and I think cities like Yekaterinburg and Yakutsk can be quite productive building ships, which we'll need in numbers soon enough.
Tech: MT / Steam / Corp / AL.
I don't feel like talking micro here. I took note of everything you guys have said...
What are your thoughts on our first stack? I was thinking of moving with 15-18 cossacks (should be about 15t, accounting for golden age). How many of his cities do we wanna take in the first wave? Rostov, Delhi and Bombay for sure. Vija is a nice city and close to the AI continent. Pataliputra would free up some more tiles for Novgorod, so I'd say it's a must. Madurai's not that great. Is it worth a nuke early on?
We get cheap drydocks being AGG, and I think cities like Yekaterinburg and Yakutsk can be quite productive building ships, which we'll need in numbers soon enough.
Tech: MT / Steam / Corp / AL.
I don't feel like talking micro here. I took note of everything you guys have said...
What are your thoughts on our first stack? I was thinking of moving with 15-18 cossacks (should be about 15t, accounting for golden age). How many of his cities do we wanna take in the first wave? Rostov, Delhi and Bombay for sure. Vija is a nice city and close to the AI continent. Pataliputra would free up some more tiles for Novgorod, so I'd say it's a must. Madurai's not that great. Is it worth a nuke early on?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
2 small non sense:
temple in vladivostok: waste of hammers... borders pop in 3 turns, it would be more efficient to build a nuke anyway (if you know what I mean -> we don't want to outculture Gnadhi, we want him dead).
Novgorod: changing a shop into a watermill, and supporting that by working a 1f/0h/0c tile...
loosing a pop and putting a shop is better, ie more tile yields. Population isn't a goal, but a mean. my opinion on this can change if we deicde to raze the indian cow city as we'll need to grow again in this case.
felt like saying it, even if it's not important
on other things:
I said some posts ago that I wouldn't whip, my opinion is the same now... As we built the Kremlin anyway, might as well whip the cities with a lot of water tiles (Yeka, Yaku, southern ice cities, seafoods cities). But don't whip shops/mines/farms/watermills (imho).
I believe 15/18 cossacks is a lot. What the other think? I would start asa we have the nukes to take down 2/3 cities.
I would take all 7 inland cities, starting by Bombay, Delhi, Rostov (revenge!!!) as u said.
Moscow shouldn't be growing on desert mills... 5 unhealthy already, health limits both science via specialists and prod via shops, so if you grow to become unhealthy, you are loosing science and prod. Not even talking of the happy cap which will soon explode).
GAs: not strong ideas on that... either right away, either after grabbing india... not sure really
edit: switching in US instead of slavery once we are done with teching is another way of leveraging Kremlin, mdy talked about iirc, I like that more than whipping tbh.
temple in vladivostok: waste of hammers... borders pop in 3 turns, it would be more efficient to build a nuke anyway (if you know what I mean -> we don't want to outculture Gnadhi, we want him dead
).Novgorod: changing a shop into a watermill, and supporting that by working a 1f/0h/0c tile...
loosing a pop and putting a shop is better, ie more tile yields. Population isn't a goal, but a mean. my opinion on this can change if we deicde to raze the indian cow city as we'll need to grow again in this case.felt like saying it, even if it's not important
on other things:
I said some posts ago that I wouldn't whip, my opinion is the same now... As we built the Kremlin anyway, might as well whip the cities with a lot of water tiles (Yeka, Yaku, southern ice cities, seafoods cities). But don't whip shops/mines/farms/watermills (imho).
I believe 15/18 cossacks is a lot. What the other think? I would start asa we have the nukes to take down 2/3 cities.
I would take all 7 inland cities, starting by Bombay, Delhi, Rostov (revenge!!!) as u said.
Moscow shouldn't be growing on desert mills... 5 unhealthy already, health limits both science via specialists and prod via shops, so if you grow to become unhealthy, you are loosing science and prod. Not even talking of the happy cap which will soon explode
).GAs: not strong ideas on that... either right away, either after grabbing india... not sure really
edit: switching in US instead of slavery once we are done with teching is another way of leveraging Kremlin, mdy talked about iirc, I like that more than whipping tbh.
2 small non sense:
temple in vladivostok: waste of hammers... borders pop in 3 turns, it would be more efficient to build a nuke anyway (if you know what I mean -> we don't want to outculture Gnadhi, we want him dead
Sure.
Saw your post yesterday.
I don't have any experience with nukes. I'll definitely worldbuilder a test map and play around for a few hours before I play the set... Will cossacks just plough right through rifles after a nuke?
Agreed. I was gonna take over a tile with St. Pete and starve Moscow at -1fpt while running another Eng. I'd whip it down a few pop after we switch civics. Probably whip a ICBM when convenient.
I think a round of slavery will be necessary, as our happy cap will become a problem. Most of our cities have pop to give. Ideally we do it last turn of this GA, and leave the option open to switch back during the next one, whenever it is.
FR sounds fine, btw. I have no strong opinion on religious civic. Pac is useless after the next GM.
shyuhe
Deity
Nukes will kill almost everything - 15 should be good enough.
You can hire a scientist in Novgorod instead of working the 1/0/0 tile It's an old habit of mine to grow to the happy cap...
Caste may be ok, especially if we go into a golden age. We should have ample production in at least three cities to build cossacks. 15 or so should be more than enough to rampage through Gandhi's core. I would go for the four central ones (skipping the northern one and the southern coastal ones) first. Then see where our nuke situation is.
I was growing Moscow initially because I wasn't sure how much unhealthiness IW would add. We probably need to re-assign some tiles between it and St. P.
As for St. P's temple... go figure. I was getting annoyed that we were losing tiles to Gandhi and wanted a temporary stop gap. It's not really necessary though...
You can hire a scientist in Novgorod instead of working the 1/0/0 tile
It's an old habit of mine to grow to the happy cap...Caste may be ok, especially if we go into a golden age. We should have ample production in at least three cities to build cossacks. 15 or so should be more than enough to rampage through Gandhi's core. I would go for the four central ones (skipping the northern one and the southern coastal ones) first. Then see where our nuke situation is.
I was growing Moscow initially because I wasn't sure how much unhealthiness IW would add. We probably need to re-assign some tiles between it and St. P.
As for St. P's temple... go figure. I was getting annoyed that we were losing tiles to Gandhi and wanted a temporary stop gap. It's not really necessary though...
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
my remark was more for Shyuhe, who removed a farm and a shop for the watermill/fun tile combinaison
It was a comment, I hope nobdy is taking offense of this kind micro discussion .Agreed on the rest...
edit: @Shyuhe, another nice feature of BUFFY for lazy buts like me: when you mouse over a building in the city queue, it will display the actual values of improvments/buildings, ie wealth and happy faces for a market for instance (taking into account the resources you have), and hammers and health decrease for IW.
no pb on the temple, I perfectly get how you felt
Gandhi MUST DIE...shyuhe
Deity
Heck, it may be more efficient to just build culture until St. P's border pops and then just build military.
And no offense taken on micro. Given how many turns I played in a short time, it was probably less than ideal.
So is the play order bbp -- RRR -- mdy? Bbp, Feel free to play until you've had your fill of nuking Gandhi. We're not really in contention at this point anyways so might as well have some fun
And no offense taken on micro. Given how many turns I played in a short time, it was probably less than ideal.
So is the play order bbp -- RRR -- mdy? Bbp, Feel free to play until you've had your fill of nuking Gandhi. We're not really in contention at this point anyways so might as well have some fun
I forgot about the workshop bonus from caste system. It might still be worthwhile to enter slavery for 4 turns during a second GA to mass whip high food low production cities though. In this case there is probably no point moving the globe.
In the first war with Gandhi I think we should just take over his mainland cities. We will need a second fort on the grass hills SW of Moscow to ensure we can hit all his cities with tactical nukes.
In the first war with Gandhi I think we should just take over his mainland cities. We will need a second fort on the grass hills SW of Moscow to ensure we can hit all his cities with tactical nukes.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
BBP -> mdy -> me -> you is the last rotation order iirc
If we run slavery for a quick burst only, I would stop it
shyuhe
Deity
We'll probably only slave 2-3 times, so GT is most likely not worth it.
Ok, I'll just cancel GT then. Just to check - we're agreed on going into FR? I think I'll try and play through the Gandhi mainland conquest tonight. Depends on how long it takes to play.
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