SGOTM 10 - Team Liz

[Andronicus]

Turnlog

1675BC
settle Warwick at red dot -> warrior for mp duty, then rax
Trade CoL to Inca for HBR + 27g
Gift CoL and HBR all around (get a few gp in return)
Minsci run on rep
Est embassies
Inca - horses, 2 lux, 1 defender, building Oracle in less than 20

Sumeria - horses unconnected, no lux, oracle in 24 (will miss), 2 defenders, rax, walls and temple

Maya - no strat resources, 1 lux, colossus in 15, 3 defenders, 100% science

IBT
London settler -> settler

1650BC
Exploring warriorr sees dyes to south

1625BC
Curragh finds archipelago off SW end of continent
Embassy with Dutch - Amsterdam req irrigation , 1 lux, building collossus but will probably lose to all wonder builds

IBT
York warrior -> worker
Hastings warrior -> rax
Nott archer -> archer

1600BC


1575BC
Settle Newcastle on horses
Embassy with Byzantines

IBT
London settler -> settler
Propagander campaign upsets Coventries citizens -> riots

1550BC
mp arrives Coventry in time to quell rioting
settler sent to dark blue dot

IBT
order restored in Coventry

1525BC
exploring and worker moves

IBT
York worker -> warrior
Nott archer -> archer
Coventry worker -> granary
Byz building MoM
Byz complete Collosus in Constantinople
Dutch start MoM
Inca start Pyramids (Tjwanaku)
Sumeria -> MoM

1500BC
Settler arrives dark blue dot to settle next turn
2 workers ready to complete road to horses in next 2 turns (or is it 3?)

 

[Andronicus]

New dot map suggestion

The south
? first priorty the dyes ( unless Byz settler pair SE of game on their way there already)
2nd ? black dot (on the river bend S of Warwick) has strategic importance
3rd Purplr dot helps connect to pink (dyes)

The NW
Settler in place on dark blue spot
This area probably lowest priorty as safest from AI settlement and much jungle to be cleared

The NE
Requires more fogbusting - yellow may move sl NE if better spot found

 

[Andronicus]

Roster
Abegweit
Redbad
juballs2001
Andronicus - just played
markh - UP
Paul#42 - on deck

Handover notes

Cities
London 4turn SF operational (I have varied where I got irr plains from at size 5 depending on need elsewhere
Nottingham - currently size 4 6spt, will build horse in 5 if switch after road connected in 2 turns, alt can work forest -> 7spt and 3 turn archer
Hastings - currently working lake to get commerce as grows this turn and goathill's food and shields is added after growth
Canterbury - 2 turns till granary built, then requires growing to size 4 and getting an extra mp (York producing I think). To work at size 4 it requies 2 irr plains, alt can steal mBG and unimproved grass to start with (although will have excess shields from growing size 2.18 -> 4.10.
Coventry - needs a lot of work, I've put it pretty much on the back burner until Canterbury can provide with a couple of extra workers. A forest chop will speed granary
Warwick - lots of BGs to mine. Builds warrior next turn for mp, then plan rax / horses
Newcastle - has stolen FP when not used elsewhere otherwise BG. May be abandoned in longrun so I suggest just build workers every 10 turns


Science
No new techs researched by AI - Byz building Colossus in size 7 city is promising

Incan situation - 3 small towns, 2 building wonders (Cuzco likely to complete Oracle in 10-12 turns has only 1 spear defending) I wonder about an early strike in about 12 turns - would have to use our archers with only 1 or 2 horses likely by then.

edit
I played a few extra turns to get us back to even numbers (ie its turn 60). We should be right for 10 turns each from here

 

[AlanH]

@Andronicus:
I've cropped your images to remove large amounts of white space that were making the page load *very* slowly and excessively wide. I also reduced them a tad, to 800 width.

The originals are still on the server with .JPG extensions, typically 250 KB to 300 KB each. The replacements have .jpg extensions (lower case), and are 60 KB to 80 KB each, so the page loads faster.

 

[Redbad]

well done Andronicus.

Here's a NOT quick draft of possible new city-sites. Please feel free to critise/improve.

Edit crosspost, makes it all very confusing

 

[Andronicus]

Here's a quick draft of possible new city-sites. Please feel free to critise/improve.

This could get confusing as you have used different colours to me for some cities the same
I count 8 sites the same as mine so I'm not about to critisize too much


edit (also removed alt dotmap to reduce confusion)

 

[Redbad]

This could get confusing as you have used different colours to me for some cities the same
I count 8 sites the same as mine so I'm not about to critisize too much

Yes let's del my pic out of thread.

 

[Andronicus]

@ Redbad
In the south my pink, red and orange correspond with your suggestions. You placed 1N of my purple dot - as it removes a jungle I think your placement better (I was just trying not to crowd Coventry)
NW is essentially the same - the site(s) in the middle of the jungle are a lot of work and low priority
NE you have placed lt blue dot closer to York than I did (S,SE), whilst I placed an additional city in yellow dot (but we dont know whats the other side of it yet so perhaps premature - same goes for your placement where I placed a question mark)

At least as important as sites of towns is the order ( particuarly deciding those to be settled (and sent out) in next turnset
Grabbing dyes would be great - esp if hooked up by time we revolt to rep, but there is a Byz settler pair to the SE (tile immed SE of game) who may be headed that way.
My 2nd vote goes for your black dot for its strategic position with respect to Incans.
After that?

editted to refer to dots on my 3 dotmaps above

 

[Redbad]

Don't worry much about the lux, Andronicus. The Incans have 2 luxes hooked up that surely will be ours when we're republic.

Placing 1 north of your purple dot isn't especially meant to remove the jungle, but to get the goldhill available to Coventry.

I placed my city closer to York in order to share isheep.

I'd say found the eastern cities first, when we're not at war. And when at war found the southern and NW cities

 

[Redbad]

Canterbury - 2 turns till granary built, then requires growing to size 4 and getting an extra mp (York producing I think). To work at size 4 it requies 2 irr plains, alt can steal mBG and unimproved grass to start with (although will have excess shields from growing size 2.18 -> 4.10.

Canterbury could operate at size 3:
floodplain, isheep, bg
floodplain, iplain, iplain
floodplain, iplain, iplain
But I agree size 4 is better, as it:
doesn't need the bg
provides more commerce

 

[Redbad]

Incan situation - 3 small towns, 2 building wonders (Cuzco likely to complete Oracle in 10-12 turns has only 1 spear defending) I wonder about an early strike in about 12 turns - would have to use our archers with only 1 or 2 horses likely by then.

That's quite attractive. We can of course defeat a single spear quite easely and before they can counterattack our forces will be stronger. We have to observe their Oracle build as they're likely to be first. I would prefer to strike just before they complete it. It is a useless wonder and preventing the Inca to build it gives more useless builds available to the other civs

As it is short notice we'll have to order our archers to gather 1 east of Newcastle. From that point they can take Cuzco in 2 turns and don't need to fight across the river.

 

[Redbad]

No sign of any local barbs - this surprises me.

Yes, what has happend to them We know Inca received 3 times 25 gold, so I expect them to have busted three barbcamps. From the NW there ought to have come some barb by now. And I don't recall having seen any barbgalleys. The galleys are regular suppliers of new barbcamps. If I'm not mistaken Gyathaar once mentioned that the barbgalleys don't require mapmaking, but writing or mathematics (don't remember which one) . I don't know what to think of this.

Edit:
Got it: the barbs get galleys when

When someone has writing (not too logical.. I know )

 

[markh]

I got it. Will read everything again and play tomorrow.

 

[juballs2001]

looks good guys... well done andro!

few questions guys... are we going to war aginst the neighbouring civs?
i would assume yes because i would rather it be us against the barbs then a varried AI against the barbs with us.

 

[Andronicus]

few questions guys... are we going to war aginst the neighbouring civs?
i would assume yes because i would rather it be us against the barbs then a varried AI against the barbs with us.

Yes we are going to war against the AI

Reasons include getting more territory for ourselves to speed our research (corrupt areas can be turned into science farms) and reducing the number of civs which will reduce number of beakers required to research each tech.

Sci civs should be kept around at least for their free middle ages tech ( I would suggest keeping them for free IA tech keeps our options open in event we need IA research) Good researchers should also be kept if they are likely to save us a tech or 2 to research.
At present all AIs appear very weak with (IIRC) none with more than 4 (mayan) towns. Byz at least have Colossus and large capital providing some hope there .

If it fit our goals I'm sure we could remove all AI before middle ages (OK, I'm conveniently neglecting barb nation in this)

 

[Paul#42]

Placing 1 north of your purple dot isn't especially meant to remove the jungle, but to get the goldhill available to Coventry.

Funny how different people have different reasons for dot placments:
I would move the purple dot NW to get away from the volcano...

All other dots are fine with me.

On barbs: In a recent Cotm I experienced severe uprisings when I entered middle ages. Those 20-80 barbies really took some breath away pounding my capital from size 9 to 1 in a single turn

@markh: at the end of your set please bring archers and horses not needed for MP to newcastle as Redbad suggested. At best timed with oracle in Cuzco. Should we Investigate during the next five turns to calculate its due date? Maybe calculating on a spreadsheet is precise enough.

 

[Andronicus]

@markh: at the end of your set please bring archers and horses not needed for MP to newcastle as Redbad suggested. At best timed with oracle in Cuzco. Should we Investigate during the next five turns to calculate its due date? Maybe calculating on a spreadsheet is precise enough.

At work so dont have save in front of me, but
in 1675 Cuzco making 7spt (size 3) and Oracle due in 20 - appears to have 60 shields in box, 140 to go (at max) or 146 at min
grew that interturn, I assume it would then use a mGrass next for 8spt (if mBG were still avail then I suspect it would have been asigned before non river mBG already using to increase commerce)
8spt (size 4) for 8 turns till growth -> 64 (max 76 left, min 70)
9spt (size 5) for 8 turns -> 72 and earliest poss build (ie 17 turns from 1675BC, that is 10 turns from now) with 62.5% probability build following turn.

This suggests mark should attack if we want to prevent Oracle build in Cuzco -dow turn 8 and move into territory, turn 9 cross river adjacent Cuzco, turn 10 take Cuzco

 

[Paul#42]

If we get 2-3 horses by then, we could take it immediately after declaration...

I still hope that two turns before finishing it, some other civ (Pirates?) build it and Cuzco switches to Pyramides...

 

[Andronicus]

If we get 2-3 horses by then, we could take it immediately after declaration...

I still hope that two turns before finishing it, some other civ (Pirates?) build it and Cuzco switches to Pyramides...

I think we will only have 1 horse by then (builds in 5 turns at 6spt then has to get from Nott to 1E of Newcastle. The turn before that horse arrives on that tile we can dow, move our 3 archers 1E across the river ready for 3 archers and 1 horse to attack v 1 spear (safe odds I reckon ). After healing any injured units we can then move on Inca's remaining cities (Tjiawau or something further to the east and 1 other town not found yet)
Tj... is building pyramids but I dont fancy its chances in a small town.
Looking at embassies I'd say its pretty certain Cuzco will build Oracle if we let it.
Not sure on the rational for not letting Cuzco build Oracle - sure its worthless, but there is the tourist benefit later. I guess preventing rushing another spear is a benefit.
I checked F7 and barb nation is not building any wonder, only Cuzco and Ur are building Oracle and Cuzco will be first

 

[markh]

0) 1500BC : looks perfect, well, the captain played !

IBT : well there goes the light blue dot in the N. Gilgamesh thought it would be a good site, too.
Warwick : warrior -> rax
Mayas begin work on pyramids

1) 1475BC : found Oxford at dark blue spot
worker movements

IBT : Canterbury : granary -> warrior (MP)

2) 1450BC : horsies are connected

IBT : London : settler -> settler

3) 1425BC : nothing

IBT : zzz

4) 1400BC : the road to Cuzco is built

IBT : uh a first barb appears at Oxford, it is a normal one, checked the stats, you never know
Theodora settles at the dyes
Nottingham : horseman -> horseman
Canterbury : warrior -> worker

5) 1375BC : nothing important

IBT : York : warrior -> warrior
Newcastle : worker -> worker

6) 1350BC : nothing

IBT : London : settler -> settler

7) 1325BC : found Liverpool SE of Hastings at orange dot
horseman kills barb warrior at Oxford

IBT : we can build a new , but smaller palace
Canterbury : worker -> worker

8) 1300BC : not much to do

IBT : Nottingham : horseman -> horseman

9) 1275BC : still not much to do

IBT : nothing

10) 1250BC : just moving units

And on with the game just a few kilometers up the Elbe to Paul. We have two horsemen and an archer at Newcastle. I forgot to check whether there still is only one defender in Cuzco. There are barbs in the area of Oxford. I sent an archer there to find them. a settler and warrior are there, too to found the next city in 2 turns. Save will be uploaded in a few seconds.