As I pointed out earlier in the beginning of my set Gil had about 7-8 swords + some enkidus walking through our territory. After that it slowed down. I think only the freshly produced ones came then. Obviously he has his main force in Byz land at the moment and his core is lightly defended. He will start to move the units from Byz land back now as he signed peace. He lost some units in the fights with Thea, but he still has a considerable force there. If we can get Thea in a war with him again he might keep his units there and continues to crash Thea. If not we will face quite a decent number coming from the mountains. We would need to rush a good number of units to counter that. Horses will not help us there. In that region we will need MDIs and pikes. Horses will be no use in the mountains.
SGOTM 10 - Team Liz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Didn't play yet, I'm still analyzing and counting Gil's forces... 
As I don't like chasing swords with horses too much I'd also like some more preparation. I will try to be a peaceful builder for the first half of my set and then consider an attack again.
I plan to get to 10 MI as a slow task force and ~40 horses before attacking Gil.
I will play tonight.
As I don't like chasing swords with horses too much I'd also like some more preparation. I will try to be a peaceful builder for the first half of my set and then consider an attack again.
I plan to get to 10 MI as a slow task force and ~40 horses before attacking Gil.
I will play tonight.
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
OK it appears most are happy war mongers , at least I gave my opinion.
With warring I think it is very different warring immediately (high risk from Gil's forces in southern mountains but lightly defended core) versus warring in 5 or more turns (we'll have 5-6 MDI to control threat from south but expect pikes in Gil's towns - perhaps a few will be cities).
Either way I think getting units onto his iron whilst rop operational is vital so we can pull the plug on further strong units by pillaging immediately we declare. I would also repeat my previous observation that elite horses should be saved for injured units - gaining armies is the number 1 benefit we will gain from this war.
Regards quickly getting a force together - I recommend getting 5 or 6 cities to 10spt and use shortrushing. ie build 10 shields, rush 30 shield unit for 80gold, then switch to MDI for 2 turn MDI or build 10 shields, rush 20 shield build (wall will be only option once discover invention) for 40 gold then switch to horse. Canterbury, Warwick, London, Hastings and Notts should all fit this very quickly. Coventry should build Leo's. York can short rush duct (buy 60shield build, then 10spt -> duct in 2 turns), then go rax -> military.
6 cities doing 2 turn units gives us 3 per turn. I would build enough MDI for war on this continent, then horses for cav upgrade.
I still feel AI more likely to help us research upper tech tree than lower (when does it ever research chem first?) and getting cavs sooner means we can control our continent sooner, but I admit the argument of reaching barbies earlier has sig merit
, at least I gave my opinion.With warring I think it is very different warring immediately (high risk from Gil's forces in southern mountains but lightly defended core) versus warring in 5 or more turns (we'll have 5-6 MDI to control threat from south but expect pikes in Gil's towns - perhaps a few will be cities).
Either way I think getting units onto his iron whilst rop operational is vital so we can pull the plug on further strong units by pillaging immediately we declare. I would also repeat my previous observation that elite horses should be saved for injured units - gaining armies is the number 1 benefit we will gain from this war.
Regards quickly getting a force together - I recommend getting 5 or 6 cities to 10spt and use shortrushing. ie build 10 shields, rush 30 shield unit for 80gold, then switch to MDI for 2 turn MDI or build 10 shields, rush 20 shield build (wall will be only option once discover invention) for 40 gold then switch to horse. Canterbury, Warwick, London, Hastings and Notts should all fit this very quickly. Coventry should build Leo's. York can short rush duct (buy 60shield build, then 10spt -> duct in 2 turns), then go rax -> military.
6 cities doing 2 turn units gives us 3 per turn. I would build enough MDI for war on this continent, then horses for cav upgrade.
I still feel AI more likely to help us research upper tech tree than lower (when does it ever research chem first?) and getting cavs sooner means we can control our continent sooner, but I admit the argument of reaching barbies earlier has sig merit
Redbad
should have shaved
A detail:
I withdraw my remark about disbanding the archers. Maybe best to sent them to a barracks town and upgrade when invention comes in. Longbows are as good as MI for taking out swords in mountains and can provide some cover when marching with MI.
I withdraw my remark about disbanding the archers. Maybe best to sent them to a barracks town and upgrade when invention comes in. Longbows are as good as MI for taking out swords in mountains and can provide some cover when marching with MI.
three turns into my set I have counted Gil's troops in our hills - it's ~12 swords, 6 Enkidus, 2 archers.
I'd like to have 10 MI before going after him.
Looking at the situation: How about a phony war with Bill to kill time? He might send some archers (all he's got) and provide some nice promotion chances. No need to go straight for his towns however. I would keep most MI back near Gil's forces and only use some light forces.
How does the team like that idea?
After getting invention, I chose Theology. One turn into it, three to go.
Given this key situation, I do not want to hurry things. I thought the upper research path would be okay for most of you. I hope I'm right.
But on the foreign affairs I'd like some vote right now. I stop playing for another day.´
So the questions / options to the team:
a) Attack Gil now (we are average compared to him already)
b) Attack Gil later when we got like 10 MI and 40 horses (9 / 21 right now)
c) keep Gil friendly by gifting lux, delay any hostility till MT
d) Attack Bill now
e) Attack Thea first, get Constantinopel
f) be peaceful at all till MT
I'd like to have 10 MI before going after him.
Looking at the situation: How about a phony war with Bill to kill time? He might send some archers (all he's got) and provide some nice promotion chances. No need to go straight for his towns however. I would keep most MI back near Gil's forces and only use some light forces.
How does the team like that idea?
After getting invention, I chose Theology. One turn into it, three to go.
Given this key situation, I do not want to hurry things. I thought the upper research path would be okay for most of you. I hope I'm right.
But on the foreign affairs I'd like some vote right now. I stop playing for another day.´
So the questions / options to the team:
a) Attack Gil now (we are average compared to him already)
b) Attack Gil later when we got like 10 MI and 40 horses (9 / 21 right now)
c) keep Gil friendly by gifting lux, delay any hostility till MT
d) Attack Bill now
e) Attack Thea first, get Constantinopel
f) be peaceful at all till MT
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
Paul#42 said:
my 2 cents
I think being peaceful until MT is too long if we go upper tech tree first, that was part of my reasoning for suggesting lower tech tree first.
Since most favoured upper first, I think we need to be warring sooner rather than later.
I would favour cutting Gil's iron, then dow - I think we now have enough MDI's to cope with his units coming out of the mountains. Should we find ourselves with a town we cannot defend and are about to lose, I suggest gifting it to Thea for 2 reasons - 1) avoid WW, 2) may drag Thea back into war with Gil.
Removing the town on our western border should also be done at start of war so we are not distracted by units from that direction.
Questions - is Gil building any wonders?, if so in what cities? Is Gil upgrading to pikes? Are his towns still size 6 or smaller?
Constantinople must be in our hands when Leo's is built
Remember the number 1 goal of war against Gil is to get leaders
Redbad
should have shaved
My primary objectives with warring are:
1 to create great leaders for getting armies and
2 to have enough cities to enable 4-turn research
As a secondary goal I think we should capture the Colossus before building Leo.
Primairly wtr to point 1 I'm in favour of warring as early and as long as possible. I'm not really interested in who to attack, though Gil is nearest our core and could cause some inconvenience with a sneak attack. But as I said I don't have strong feelings about who to attack first.
As you said we're capable of doing 4-turn research now. So I guess with moderate expansion we should be able to maintain that pace. I'm in favour of you starting researching the upper path. I have no expectations of the AI in further assisting us in research. So having them beat up eachother is fine by me.
In short I would say: get everyone in war asap and start banging heads of a foe of your choosing. And keep on banging heads until they are all dead or we have to divert our attention to Dr. Evil.
1 to create great leaders for getting armies and
2 to have enough cities to enable 4-turn research
As a secondary goal I think we should capture the Colossus before building Leo.
Primairly wtr to point 1 I'm in favour of warring as early and as long as possible. I'm not really interested in who to attack, though Gil is nearest our core and could cause some inconvenience with a sneak attack. But as I said I don't have strong feelings about who to attack first.
As you said we're capable of doing 4-turn research now. So I guess with moderate expansion we should be able to maintain that pace. I'm in favour of you starting researching the upper path. I have no expectations of the AI in further assisting us in research. So having them beat up eachother is fine by me.
In short I would say: get everyone in war asap and start banging heads of a foe of your choosing. And keep on banging heads until they are all dead or we have to divert our attention to Dr. Evil.
Take off
0) 150 BC
Switched all Newcastle citizens to scientists. rush settler.
MM to Invention in 2 at -21 gpt.
Change some workers, trebs to settlers.
short-rush aqueduct in York. short-rush 3 MI.
Switch London to Sun Tzu (Leo's prebuild). I think we need it fast, maybe even for knights. And Coventry still
needs some time to be set up.
IBT
Hastings, Canterbury, Warwick MI -> horse
Necastle settler -> settler
Liverpool, Norwich barracks -> horse
Lagartero, Berwick, worker -> worker
Quirigua worker -> settler
Gil starts Sun Tzu
Gil's, Bill's and Thea's forces moving back and forth
Lagash has a vet Pike
1) 130 BC
Lots of MM, accompany some of Gil's troops.
IBT
We discover invention.
Coventry, Warwick, horse -> horse
Gloucester barracks -> horse
Barbs start Sun Tzu.
2) 110 BC
Although I really would love to know the salt sources before the AI does (however of course they already do...) I rather start researching the upper tree to be faster to astronomy.
Thea does pay all her money and mono for Invention, yet I give it to Gil, also... For 2 gold...
rush another settler in Newcastle.
Our recent census of Gil's troops: 12 swords, 5 Enkidus, 2 archers in our center and the southern mountains.
Gift wines to Gil - he turns from angry to friendly. That should cool down his temper...
Research Theology in 4 turns at -43 gpt.
IBT
York aqueduct -> barracks
Palanque settler -> settler
Newcastle builds its final settler. Thanks for the horses.
Brighton MI -> horses
Gil starts Leo's.
3) 90 BC
After discussion with (part of) the team I change the plan and prepare an early attack.
switch some builds to Pikes to stand the counter attack.
IBT
Canterbury, Warwick pike -> horse
Hastings horse -> horse
Nottingham MI -> horse
4) 70 BC
IBT
Gloucester pike -> horse
5) 50 BC
Let's party...
horses pillage iron sources, dow.
vet horse kills reg Enkidu and auto-razes Akshak (freshly founded 3S of Berwick) (1-0)
vet horse retreats from reg sword 2/3 (in jungle 2W of Nottingham)
vet MI kills reg Enkidu (2-0), promotes 3/5
vet MI loses to reg sword 2/3 (2-1)
vet horse loses to reg Sword 2/4 (2-2)
vet horse kills 2/4 sword, promotes 5/5 (3-2)
vet MI kills reg sword on mountain, promotes 3/5 (4-2)
IBT
e-sword loses to vet pike 3/4 (5-2)
Theology researched. Now education.
Coventry pike -> horse
Norwich horse -> horse
6) 30 BC
Thea would join us for Theology + 430g. Too expensive. Bill rejects.
e-MI 3/5 kills 2/3-sword in jungle (6-2, 1ev (elite victory))
vet MI loses to reg Enkidu in Isin (6-3)
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 1/4 (7-3)
vet MI kills reg sword 2/4 (8-3)
vet horse retreats from reg sword 3/3
vet MI loses to reg sword 1/3 (8-4)
vet MI kills reg sword, promotes 3/5 (9-4)
MM to Education in 4 at -48gpt.
gift wines to William to make him more expensive for Gil.
IBT
longbow kills pike (9-5)
2 reg archers lose to vet pike, promotes 3/5 (11-5)
reg archer 2/3 kills vet horse (11-6)
Hastings, Warwick, Brighton horse -> horse
Canterbury pike -> horse
Bonampak settler -> settler
7) 10 BC
e-horse kills vet longbow 4/5 (12-6, 2ev)
e-MI kills reg archer 3/5 (13-6, 3ev)
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 1/4 (14-6), captures settler
IBT
2 reg swords lose to 3/5-pike 2/5 (16-6, 5ev)
2 reg swords lose to vet MI, promotes 4/5 (18-6)
vet MI 3/4 kills our e-horse (18-7)
York barracks -> horse
Nottingham MI -> horse
Birmingham worker -> wealth
Bristol harbor -> galley
8) 10 AD
vet longbow kills 3/4 MI, promotes 2/5 (19-7)
4/5 MI kills reg Enkidu 2/5 (20-7)
vet horse retreats from vet sword 2/4
e-horse kills 2/4 sword (21-7, 6ev)
vet horse loses to reg archer 2/3 (21-8)
vet horse kills 2/3 archer (22-8)
vet MI loses to reg Enkidu (22-9)
e-horse kills reg Enkidu 2/5 (23-9, 7ev)
e-horse loses to reg Enkidu (23-10)
ww threatens 10 towns - hire some clowns
IBT
longbos loses to vet pike, promotes 4/5 (24-10)
reg sword loses to vet MI, promotes 5/5 (25-10)
Chichen Itza, The Mumbles worker -> wealth
riots in Coventry - I had checked it
Oxford aqueduct -> barracks
Liverpool horse -> horse
Dover courthouse -> galley
production in London was sabotaged! Black Death strikes, kills people. We shall not bring troops to London while this desease is around, a message told me
We lost one pop but no shields. Hope this won't last too long
9) 30 AD
e-MI kills reg Enkidu 2/5 (26-10, 8ev)
e-MI loses to vet Enkidu on grass 2/4 (26-11)
vet horse loses to vet sword 1/4 (26-12)
2/5-MI kills 1/4-sword 1/5 (27-12, 9ev)
2/5-horse kills 2/4-Enkidu (28-12, 10ev)
battle for Isin
vet horse retreats from reg Enkidu
vet horse retreats from reg Enkidu
vet horse loses to reg Enkidu 2/3 (28-13)
vet MI kills reg Enkidu (29-13)
3/5-MI kills 2/3-Enkidu 1/5 (30-13, 11ev), takes town[2], no resistence, 33% corrupt
vet MI kills reg longbow (31-13)
IBT
Education researched. ToA expired we are back making 4cpt...
Copan, Carlisle settler -> settler
Hastings, Warwick horse -> horse
Canterbury MI -> horse
Ollantaytambo worker -> wealth
riot in Quiriguy
Amsterdam finished Great Library
25 towns are about to riot next turn
Desease in London did not strike again, black birds are gone...
10) 50 AD
vet horse loses to vet MI 2/4 (31-14)
vet horse kills 2/4-MI, promotes 4/5 (32-14)
vet horse retreats from vet sword
Ceasarea
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 3/4 (33-14)
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 1/4 (34-14), takes town[4], 1 resistor.
Smyrna
vet horse retreats from reg Enkidu 2/3
vet horse kills reg Enkidu (35-14)
vet horse kills 2/3-Enkidu (36-14), takes town[2], 1 resistor.
These battles I had decided to fight after I realized my poor progress, they really made my day...
After flight check
War weariness strikes heavily. If we want to keep the tech pace, we have to sign peace.
Gil would give 15gpt for peace but no town
Thea offers 16gpt + 130g for Theology - I saw no reason to trade yet.
11 Elite victories did not net us a leader so far. I had also suffered 3-4 elite losses...
Here is the save
0) 150 BC
Switched all Newcastle citizens to scientists. rush settler.
MM to Invention in 2 at -21 gpt.
Change some workers, trebs to settlers.
short-rush aqueduct in York. short-rush 3 MI.
Switch London to Sun Tzu (Leo's prebuild). I think we need it fast, maybe even for knights. And Coventry still
needs some time to be set up.
IBT
Hastings, Canterbury, Warwick MI -> horse
Necastle settler -> settler
Liverpool, Norwich barracks -> horse
Lagartero, Berwick, worker -> worker
Quirigua worker -> settler
Gil starts Sun Tzu
Gil's, Bill's and Thea's forces moving back and forth
Lagash has a vet Pike
1) 130 BC
Lots of MM, accompany some of Gil's troops.
IBT
We discover invention.
Coventry, Warwick, horse -> horse
Gloucester barracks -> horse
Barbs start Sun Tzu.
2) 110 BC
Although I really would love to know the salt sources before the AI does (however of course they already do...) I rather start researching the upper tree to be faster to astronomy.
Thea does pay all her money and mono for Invention, yet I give it to Gil, also... For 2 gold...
rush another settler in Newcastle.
Our recent census of Gil's troops: 12 swords, 5 Enkidus, 2 archers in our center and the southern mountains.
Gift wines to Gil - he turns from angry to friendly. That should cool down his temper...
Research Theology in 4 turns at -43 gpt.
IBT
York aqueduct -> barracks
Palanque settler -> settler
Newcastle builds its final settler. Thanks for the horses.
Brighton MI -> horses
Gil starts Leo's.
3) 90 BC
After discussion with (part of) the team I change the plan and prepare an early attack.
switch some builds to Pikes to stand the counter attack.
IBT
Canterbury, Warwick pike -> horse
Hastings horse -> horse
Nottingham MI -> horse
4) 70 BC
IBT
Gloucester pike -> horse
5) 50 BC
Let's party...
horses pillage iron sources, dow.
vet horse kills reg Enkidu and auto-razes Akshak (freshly founded 3S of Berwick) (1-0)
vet horse retreats from reg sword 2/3 (in jungle 2W of Nottingham)
vet MI kills reg Enkidu (2-0), promotes 3/5
vet MI loses to reg sword 2/3 (2-1)
vet horse loses to reg Sword 2/4 (2-2)
vet horse kills 2/4 sword, promotes 5/5 (3-2)
vet MI kills reg sword on mountain, promotes 3/5 (4-2)
IBT
e-sword loses to vet pike 3/4 (5-2)
Theology researched. Now education.
Coventry pike -> horse
Norwich horse -> horse
6) 30 BC
Thea would join us for Theology + 430g. Too expensive. Bill rejects.
e-MI 3/5 kills 2/3-sword in jungle (6-2, 1ev (elite victory))
vet MI loses to reg Enkidu in Isin (6-3)
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 1/4 (7-3)
vet MI kills reg sword 2/4 (8-3)
vet horse retreats from reg sword 3/3
vet MI loses to reg sword 1/3 (8-4)
vet MI kills reg sword, promotes 3/5 (9-4)
MM to Education in 4 at -48gpt.
gift wines to William to make him more expensive for Gil.
IBT
longbow kills pike (9-5)
2 reg archers lose to vet pike, promotes 3/5 (11-5)
reg archer 2/3 kills vet horse (11-6)
Hastings, Warwick, Brighton horse -> horse
Canterbury pike -> horse
Bonampak settler -> settler
7) 10 BC
e-horse kills vet longbow 4/5 (12-6, 2ev)
e-MI kills reg archer 3/5 (13-6, 3ev)
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 1/4 (14-6), captures settler
IBT
2 reg swords lose to 3/5-pike 2/5 (16-6, 5ev)
2 reg swords lose to vet MI, promotes 4/5 (18-6)
vet MI 3/4 kills our e-horse (18-7)
York barracks -> horse
Nottingham MI -> horse
Birmingham worker -> wealth
Bristol harbor -> galley
8) 10 AD
vet longbow kills 3/4 MI, promotes 2/5 (19-7)
4/5 MI kills reg Enkidu 2/5 (20-7)
vet horse retreats from vet sword 2/4
e-horse kills 2/4 sword (21-7, 6ev)
vet horse loses to reg archer 2/3 (21-8)
vet horse kills 2/3 archer (22-8)
vet MI loses to reg Enkidu (22-9)
e-horse kills reg Enkidu 2/5 (23-9, 7ev)
e-horse loses to reg Enkidu (23-10)
ww threatens 10 towns - hire some clowns
IBT
longbos loses to vet pike, promotes 4/5 (24-10)
reg sword loses to vet MI, promotes 5/5 (25-10)
Chichen Itza, The Mumbles worker -> wealth
riots in Coventry - I had checked it
Oxford aqueduct -> barracks
Liverpool horse -> horse
Dover courthouse -> galley
production in London was sabotaged! Black Death strikes, kills people. We shall not bring troops to London while this desease is around, a message told me
We lost one pop but no shields. Hope this won't last too long
9) 30 AD
e-MI kills reg Enkidu 2/5 (26-10, 8ev)
e-MI loses to vet Enkidu on grass 2/4 (26-11)
vet horse loses to vet sword 1/4 (26-12)
2/5-MI kills 1/4-sword 1/5 (27-12, 9ev)
2/5-horse kills 2/4-Enkidu (28-12, 10ev)
battle for Isin
vet horse retreats from reg Enkidu
vet horse retreats from reg Enkidu
vet horse loses to reg Enkidu 2/3 (28-13)
vet MI kills reg Enkidu (29-13)
3/5-MI kills 2/3-Enkidu 1/5 (30-13, 11ev), takes town[2], no resistence, 33% corrupt
vet MI kills reg longbow (31-13)
IBT
Education researched. ToA expired
we are back making 4cpt...Copan, Carlisle settler -> settler
Hastings, Warwick horse -> horse
Canterbury MI -> horse
Ollantaytambo worker -> wealth
riot in Quiriguy
Amsterdam finished Great Library
25 towns are about to riot next turn
Desease in London did not strike again, black birds are gone...
10) 50 AD
vet horse loses to vet MI 2/4 (31-14)
vet horse kills 2/4-MI, promotes 4/5 (32-14)
vet horse retreats from vet sword
Ceasarea
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 3/4 (33-14)
vet horse kills reg Enkidu 1/4 (34-14), takes town[4], 1 resistor.
Smyrna
vet horse retreats from reg Enkidu 2/3
vet horse kills reg Enkidu (35-14)
vet horse kills 2/3-Enkidu (36-14), takes town[2], 1 resistor.
These battles I had decided to fight after I realized my poor progress, they really made my day...
After flight check
War weariness strikes heavily. If we want to keep the tech pace, we have to sign peace.
Gil would give 15gpt for peace but no town
Thea offers 16gpt + 130g for Theology - I saw no reason to trade yet.
11 Elite victories did not net us a leader so far. I had also suffered 3-4 elite losses...
Here is the save
Attachments
Redbad
should have shaved
Very well, done Paul.
You've stabilised the front and went in the offensive. If we press on, Gil will soon fall apart. Bummer we still haven't got a great leader, but I'm sure we finally will. The black bird and the skull are another of Gyathaar's little jokes I suppose.
WW still isn't that bad. If we can capture Lagash shortly with the Hanging Gardens, things will improve. And FP next turn will help with corruption and research/income.
But even without those two I have MMed the cities to prevent rioting and get us back to 4 turn research. You can see it in the save below.
I stopped the worker builds. We already have 61 native workers now, costing us an arm and a leg each turn. I'm in favour to join some of them to corrupt towns with 3-food tiles, so we can turn them into scientists. At the moment we already have 16 slaves and those numbers will increase.
I've changed Exeter from a duct to court. It's a fairly corrput town with no food bonusses. Growing beyond size 6 will be a burden on our economy.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad,_50_AD.SAV
So I'd say Abegweit: to you the fair task to further leading the Sumerians on their journey to join our great empire.
Edit: Ooh btw: Thea will pay 4gpt for horse. That sounds good to me.
You've stabilised the front and went in the offensive. If we press on, Gil will soon fall apart. Bummer we still haven't got a great leader, but I'm sure we finally will. The black bird and the skull are another of Gyathaar's little jokes I suppose.
WW still isn't that bad. If we can capture Lagash shortly with the Hanging Gardens, things will improve. And FP next turn will help with corruption and research/income.
But even without those two I have MMed the cities to prevent rioting and get us back to 4 turn research. You can see it in the save below.
I stopped the worker builds. We already have 61 native workers now, costing us an arm and a leg each turn. I'm in favour to join some of them to corrupt towns with 3-food tiles, so we can turn them into scientists. At the moment we already have 16 slaves and those numbers will increase.
I've changed Exeter from a duct to court. It's a fairly corrput town with no food bonusses. Growing beyond size 6 will be a burden on our economy.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad,_50_AD.SAV
So I'd say Abegweit: to you the fair task to further leading the Sumerians on their journey to join our great empire.
Edit: Ooh btw: Thea will pay 4gpt for horse. That sounds good to me.
Redbad
should have shaved
Some stray remarks:
We can see a town of Dr. Evil to the east, New Apache. It must have been there some time, as it's called New Apache and not Neu Apache. I only noticed it now though.
We must expect Bill to get a golden age when we attack him. We would be very lucky to knock out the Swiss in Tikal without loss.
We can see a town of Dr. Evil to the east, New Apache. It must have been there some time, as it's called New Apache and not Neu Apache. I only noticed it now though.
We must expect Bill to get a golden age when we attack him. We would be very lucky to knock out the Swiss in Tikal without loss.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
@Redbad
I will do my own micro-management, thank you very much. As I have spent considerable time analysing Paul's save (and the two are essentially equivalent, since there have been no moves), I plan to work from that. This being said, if you have suggestions to make, you are more than welcome to offer them.
However, the idea that 61 workers is too many for 48 cities is not one that will be considered and you can be assured that we will continue to build more, if for no other reason than to fold into our core cities. I honestly don't understand your strange antipathy to the proper management and feeding of the most important unit in the game. They do not cost an arm and a leg. They always pay for themselves. They do need to be used properly.
Actually what we are short of is cities, not workers. I am considering cash-rushing them.
@Paul
Well done on the war front! All of Gil's cities in our backyard are gone and he feels badly pounded. One comment: cities should not be building wealth at this point in the game. We need workers and settlers not one measly coin.
@Team.
I suggest that it's time to take a peace treaty. We are already suffering war weariness and I do not see how to avoid the loss of Newcastle, which will really make things bad. Gil will give us 15gpt+12g for peace. We should take it.
We could consider war against Theo. She is currently paying us 29gpt but Nicaea-by-the-dyes would be a fine acquisition. Adrianople-with-the-iron is also important but a size 7 city on a hill is intimidating. We need a few trebs for that. I'm thinking that I should build a few and let Redbad find her a new home on some pretty tropical isle when the treaty runs out.
I will do my own micro-management, thank you very much. As I have spent considerable time analysing Paul's save (and the two are essentially equivalent, since there have been no moves), I plan to work from that. This being said, if you have suggestions to make, you are more than welcome to offer them.
However, the idea that 61 workers is too many for 48 cities is not one that will be considered and you can be assured that we will continue to build more, if for no other reason than to fold into our core cities. I honestly don't understand your strange antipathy to the proper management and feeding of the most important unit in the game. They do not cost an arm and a leg. They always pay for themselves. They do need to be used properly.
Actually what we are short of is cities, not workers. I am considering cash-rushing them.
@Paul
Well done on the war front! All of Gil's cities in our backyard are gone and he feels badly pounded. One comment: cities should not be building wealth at this point in the game. We need workers and settlers not one measly coin.
@Team.
I suggest that it's time to take a peace treaty. We are already suffering war weariness and I do not see how to avoid the loss of Newcastle, which will really make things bad. Gil will give us 15gpt+12g for peace. We should take it.
We could consider war against Theo. She is currently paying us 29gpt but Nicaea-by-the-dyes would be a fine acquisition. Adrianople-with-the-iron is also important but a size 7 city on a hill is intimidating. We need a few trebs for that. I'm thinking that I should build a few and let Redbad find her a new home on some pretty tropical isle when the treaty runs out.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
It appeared during mark's turns.Redbad said:
WRT this, what is the staff's policy on crashes caused by taking arties hitting the walls? Are we allowed to re-load? Or is it forbidden to try? Does anyone know?
Thanks for the commendation. Actually I'm not content with my result as I was not focussed the first turns and was not decisive enough to go for Lagash. We should have already taken it. Oh, had I noticed that it had the Hanging Gardens... 
Speaking of wonders: Of course not all unhappiness is due to ww, I did not count in the loss of all those temples after researching education...
I had not MMed the empire as I had expected to make peace. Of course we shoudl take at least Lagash and maybe Sumer to take the iron sources.
It's not that they tried hiding it...
Speaking of wonders: Of course not all unhappiness is due to ww, I did not count in the loss of all those temples after researching education...
I had not MMed the empire as I had expected to make peace. Of course we shoudl take at least Lagash and maybe Sumer to take the iron sources.
You must have been blind not to notice that red spot on the minimap...Redbad said:
It's not that they tried hiding it...
We might take Tikal as our last aim. 2-3 horses should be enough to take care of units coming from that town.Redbad said:
Sorry, nearly overloooked that one...
I'd rather wait another two turns, gift Newcastle to Thea or Bill (whoever we attack next), regroup our forces and take Lagash or Sumer in 2-3 turns (with horses, MI take to long). Gil should not have an extra iron source to trade to Bill...
Abegweit said:
I'd rather wait another two turns, gift Newcastle to Thea or Bill (whoever we attack next), regroup our forces and take Lagash or Sumer in 2-3 turns (with horses, MI take to long). Gil should not have an extra iron source to trade to Bill...
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I like this idea. Agreed. Gift to Theo and press on.Paul#42 said:
I've never encountered it at all; only heard about it. If you're right, then it's good news. As for how many Trebs to build, 2-3 is about right. Just enough to take a point off the main defender. You're right about the MIs, though. Once we've finished taking over this continent, their usefulness is finished.
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
Great job clearing Gil out of the southern mountains Paul
- as far as I can see he only has 3 units left over there
- Gil is building 2 wonders (Sun Tzu in Bad-tibira and Leo's in Ur - plus Umma is building FP) so he wont be building too many to replace losses
re workers - we badly need more in our core to both fold into and mine some of the irrigated tiles, thus improving production (eg London and Coventry). I think we have enough in the boonies and suggest we build more settlers there (we have many settler spots still avail).
Caravels will be avail in Abegweit's turnset - glad to see the galley prebuilds. I suggest that instead of building another rax, Oxford switch to building boats
My recollection of plague in the senarios was very unpleasant. Any thoughts on how to minimise its effects or are they entirely random. One obvious strat is to avoid leaving units in cities, at least where they are not threatened by Gil
Agree with gifting Newcastle to Thea and continuing war to get Lagash - if WW remains not too bad we may want to continue on.
- as far as I can see he only has 3 units left over there
- Gil is building 2 wonders (Sun Tzu in Bad-tibira and Leo's in Ur - plus Umma is building FP) so he wont be building too many to replace losses
re workers - we badly need more in our core to both fold into and mine some of the irrigated tiles, thus improving production (eg London and Coventry). I think we have enough in the boonies and suggest we build more settlers there (we have many settler spots still avail).
Caravels will be avail in Abegweit's turnset - glad to see the galley prebuilds. I suggest that instead of building another rax, Oxford switch to building boats
My recollection of plague in the senarios was very unpleasant. Any thoughts on how to minimise its effects or are they entirely random. One obvious strat is to avoid leaving units in cities, at least where they are not threatened by Gil
Agree with gifting Newcastle to Thea and continuing war to get Lagash - if WW remains not too bad we may want to continue on.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
@Andronics I've already started playing although I haven't even finished the pre-turn yet.
I agree with all your suggestions and, in fact, have started implementing them already
Oxford is doing a boat. London has grown and will put on more weight next turn. 
In studying the situation, my accessment is that we are badly short of workers to the west and southeast while the Mayan lands are overdeveloped and need settlers.
Just for you, I will start building some markets soon. We have about enough military. We need happy people. Rich people are happy people.
I agree with all your suggestions and, in fact, have started implementing them already
Oxford is doing a boat. London has grown and will put on more weight next turn. In studying the situation, my accessment is that we are badly short of workers to the west and southeast while the Mayan lands are overdeveloped and need settlers.
Just for you, I will start building some markets soon.
We have about enough military. We need happy people. Rich people are happy people.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Pre-flight check
Assessment
I took a quick glance at Redbad’s contribution. IMO, starving our entire empire is not the way to go. It will only make things worse in the future. So instead, I up the lux rate to 30% and make assorted changes to speed up production in various cities. Only London has excess happiness anyway and we’ll soon fix that.
To that end, I start by merging a worker into London. Leo’s now due to 24 instead of 26. After they finish building a mine, three more will join in next turn bringing it to size 12. I’m not sure whether the twelfth citizen will be a scientist or a worker. We shall see next turn.
Core builds
York MM’d to get its horse in two and to pass the food to Oxford. Coventry MM’d to get its horse in one. Warwick MM’d to 10 gpt. It has whip penalty. How did that happen? Nottingham switched to a settler to avoid wasting food. Oxford is switched to a caravel pre-build, to be precise a Palace so that the chop goes to help Exeter build its duct. Reading’s settler is cash-rushed as the city is starving. I understand why the whip penalty there; it came from Tiwanaku. Ollantaytambo gets a harbour. This city needs a lot of work. Canterbury switched to MDI in order to not waste the chop. I expect that will be the last one. Dover gets a settler and a scientist. It will need a duct next. Brighton, which is badly overrunning its horse build goes on a diet too. More diets at Leeds; hopefully the FP will help this city.
Cities to move
Yaxchilan and Chichen Itza. There is room for three more cities in this area. Both cities are given starvation diets. Yaxchilan’s settler is cash-rushed.
Bath. Corrupt cities should never be placed on flood plains (wastes food) and the location is bad in terms of future city placement as well. I will start the process of shrinking it down. Its settler is also cash-rushed.
Smyrna is sitting by the volcano and has to get away from it, but that won’t happen during my turns. For my part, I will make sure that it doesn’t grow. Furthermore, if it is moved north-east, there is room for an additional city in that mountain valley.
Corrupt and semi-corrupt cities
Cities building wealth are switched. Two courthouse builds are vetoed. Three others are left as they are too far gone for there to be an alternative. All scientists in size one cities are fired in order to let the towns grow, except for those which would violate Andronicus’ rule about using 1-food tiles. Bonampak is size one and almost finished a settler; switched to a treb.
Other stuff
Astronomy is now due in four. I can’t hold up this science rate because many cities are starving. However, the FP is due next turn and that will help a lot.
I start moving MDIs to Brighton and horses to Portsmouth. Pikes move into position to get Gil down from the mountain tops. As discussed, Newcastle is gifted to Theo. She goes polite. Maybe with luck it will flip back. It is badly culture-squeezed between us and Gil.
There! Press <enter>.
Turn log
[inter-turn]Theo cancels our ROP. I agree. She’s already back to annoyed.
Cuzco FP -> treb
Nottingham settler->duct
Coventry horse->horse
Hasting horse->market
Yaxchilan settler->settler
Brighton horse->horse
Norwich horse->horse
Leeds barracks->horse
Lagartero settler->settler
Reading settler->market
Bath settler->settler
T1 70 AD New London founded->settler
For some reason, war weariness hits big time. It takes 90% lux to calm Manchester and many other cities are unhappy at 30%. The Mumbles is 100% war weary. I decide its time to give up. I take a few potshots on random Sumerian units and then give Gil peace for 15gpt + 8g. Sorry guys. Lux is set back to 30%. The machine will be turned on Theo. Both Adrianople and Constantinople are building wonders and she should be gassed from her war with Gil. They shouldn’t be difficult to take down. Potshots follow.
Vet LB vs reg archer -> 4/4 LB [1-0]
Vet horse vs vet longbow -> 3/4 LB and retreat
Vet horse vs vet longbow -> 4/5 horse [2-0]
Vet horse vs vet longbow -> 3/4 horse [3-0]
London is grown to size 12. Leo’s is now due in 20. After more mining, that should be even better. Switch core builds from military to markets and courts. Rush a settler at Quiriqua.
[inter-turn]
Quiriqua settler->settler.
Resistance in Caesarea ends.
T2 90AD Move military.
New York founded -> settler
T3 110 AD
New Nottingham founded -> settler
New Hastings founded -> worker
Horseman sneaks into spy on Andrianople. On top we find a reg spear!
[inter-turn]
Learn Astro, start Gunpowder.
Dover settler -> caravel
Resistance in Smyrna ends
T4 130 AD
Horse goes back. DoW on Theo.
Battle of Nicaea
Vet horse vs vet spear -> 3/5 horse [4-0]
Elite MDI vs reg spear -> 4/5 MDI [5-0]
The city is taken. Start settler.
Capture 4 slaves in the area.
New Canterbury founded -> settler
[inter-turn]
Machu Picchu Court -> settler
Nicaea riots and will starve
Liverpool horse -> worker
Portsmouth settler -> worker
Barb Nation goes into anarchy!
T5 150 AD
Battle of Andrianople
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 3/3 spear and retreat
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 2/4 horse [6-0]
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 2/3 spear and retreat
Elite horse vs 2/3 spear -> 1/3 spear [6-1]
Elite horse vs 1/3 spear -> 4/5 horse [7-1]
City falls. Starts a settler.
New Coventry founded -> worker
New Warwick founded -> worker
New Oxford founded -> worker
I demand that Gil leave our lands – and he does. Grrr.
London fully optimised. Leo’s now due in 15.
Two workers are merged into Cuzco.
Cash rush settler from Bath.
[inter-turn]
3/3 Archer vs 2/4 horse -> 3/3 archer and retreat
Resistance in Adrianople ends.
Isin worker -> worker
Canterbury Market -> horse
Richmond settler -> settler
Leicester court -> worker
Bath settler -> settler
Dyes are connected
T6 170 AD
Elite horse vs 3/3 archer -> 4/5 horse [8-1]
New Liverpool founded -> Caravel
Vet horse vs 3/3 sword-> 1/4 horse [9-1]
Upgrade galley to carvel
I am surprised to find that the rioters in Andrianople have 0 flip risk
Switch Norwich to a Market
[inter-turn]
Oxford caravel -> market
Liverpool worker -> caravel
Bonampak settler -> worker
T7 190 AD
Merge a worker into Cuzco
New Dover founded -> worker
Elite MDI vs reg LB -> 5/5 MDI [10-1]
Switch Mumbles and Neu Canterbury to workers
Short rush duct at Nottingham and market at Warwick
Caravels from Dover and Oxford head off to explore the world
Switch New Warwick to settler
MM, adding scientists until we can bring in Gun @ 30% science
[inter-turn]
Gunpowder -> Chemistry
Pirate ship spotted!
Hastings market -> horse
Canterbury horse->horse
Leicester worker->duct
T8 210 AD
We have salt One near Warwick and another near Bonampak
New Brighton founded -> worker
Oops. False alarm about the pirate ship; it was just a dromon
Reg LB vs. vet horse -> 2/4 LB and retreat.
Battle of Constantinople
Vet horse vs. vet pike -> 3/4 pike [10-2]
Another vet pike shows up on top
Time to think. I have 13 horses ready. Constantinople is probably defended by 2 pikes and 2 spears. Offa’s dandy little calc tells me that I should win 96% of the time against that. All right. Let’s go for it.
Vet horse vs. vet pike -> 2/5 horse [11-2] Yes man! But another pike shows up on top, this time a regular. That would mean that the spears are regulars too. Offa says 93% now.
Vet horse vs. reg pike -> 2/3 pike and retreat. Another pike shows up. Sheesh.
Vet horse vs reg pike -> 3/3 pike [11-3]
Vet horse vs reg pike -> 3/4 pike [11-4] and another reg shows up. Has she upgraded her spears? I give up before I lose our army.
We’ll take Varna instead.
New Norwich founded -> settler.
I demand that Gil leave our lands and once against he does
Battle of Newcastle
Elite MDI vs reg spear -> 3/5 MDI [12-5]
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 3/3 spear [12-6] I quit, moving other forces in.
Our caravels find Barbaralia
[inter-turn]
Nottingham duct-> market
Warwick market-> horse
Exeter duct -> court
Cambridge court -> settler
T9 230 AD
Battle of Newcastle (round 2)
Vet LB vs reg spear -> 2/4 LB [13-6]
Vet MDI vs reg spear -> 2/4 MSI [14-6]
Elite horse vs. reg LB -> 2/5 horse [15-6]
And Newcastle returns to the fold. Both cits are Byz
New Leeds founded -> worker
[inter-turn]
Barb galleys sink a carvel![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
[16-7]
@ Varna reg LB vs. 3/5 MDI fort on a mountain -> 1/4 LB [16-8]
Cuzco market -> barracks
Hastings horse->horse
Canterbury horse -> horse
Coventry market -> horse
Resistance ends in Newcastle
Gloucester court -> market
Ipswich settler -> settler
Mumbles worker -> worker
Neu Canterbury worker -> worker
Battle of Varna
Vet MDI vs reg pike -> 1/4 MDI [17-8]
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 2/4 spear and retreat
Vet horse vs 2/4 spear -> 5/5 horse and the city is ours [18-8]
Elite horse vs reg LB -> 5/5 horse [19-8]
4/5 horse vs 1/4 LB -> 4/5 horse [20-8]
I’ll stop here. There’s lots of unmoved units and I haven’t MM’d the cities but they should be pretty good. I think I left the horse at New Leeds and the Pike by Old Leeds on goto (heading for Norwich and Portsmouth respectively).
Post mortem
I spent most of my turns building infra - courts, ducts, markets and cities. The economy is now in pretty good shape. Despite this concentration, I was moderately successful with a small war on Theo. I also managed to shave six turns off Leo's and to keep up 4-turn research all the way along.
Note that, because we now have some markets, it's attractive to use scientists for research and the slider for cash. We are currently doing 3.52 on the slider, which is +121gpt. Still 4-turn research and several smaller cities are reaching the point where they can support scientists of their own.
Redbad, you’ll be glad to know that I leave you with fewer workers than I started with.
More importantly, because of the 13 new cities and the growth of old ones, our support costs have now fallen to zero.
Theo is ready to sue for peace. She’ll give us a nice hunk of change but we should press on. I suggest taking one more city and then waiting for cavs to take out Constantinople, leaving her with Heraclea. That’s only 10 turns away (exactly when Leo’s will finish ). In the meantime, you can play with Bill. Our peace treaty with him ends to 6 turns. Next player gets to take revenge on Gil.
I’d recommend cash-rushing Smyrna and Bath to move the cities. We have a bit of cash and are producing plenty more. Cash-rushing settlers pays back very quickly. There are plenty of other cities which could benefit from this as well. Yaxchilan and Chitzen Itza have to be moved as well.
Sorry about the failed attack on Constantinople. I really thought it was no better defended than Arianopolis was. As for the plan to continue with the attack on the Sumerians, I have absolutely no idea why WW suddenly got so bad. They didn’t attack. I didn’t have troops in their territory. All I did was to gift Newcastle to Theo as planned. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
I'm less sure that losing the caravel was a pimp move than I was at the time. Notice the barb galleys in the sea tiles. Does this mean that galleys can travel in the sea? Or that they have Astronomy?
Our culture graph kinda gives away the fact that we learned education
We're still far ahead in all departments though.
Assessment
I took a quick glance at Redbad’s contribution. IMO, starving our entire empire is not the way to go. It will only make things worse in the future. So instead, I up the lux rate to 30% and make assorted changes to speed up production in various cities. Only London has excess happiness anyway and we’ll soon fix that.
To that end, I start by merging a worker into London. Leo’s now due to 24 instead of 26. After they finish building a mine, three more will join in next turn bringing it to size 12. I’m not sure whether the twelfth citizen will be a scientist or a worker. We shall see next turn.
Core builds
York MM’d to get its horse in two and to pass the food to Oxford. Coventry MM’d to get its horse in one. Warwick MM’d to 10 gpt. It has whip penalty. How did that happen? Nottingham switched to a settler to avoid wasting food. Oxford is switched to a caravel pre-build, to be precise a Palace so that the chop goes to help Exeter build its duct. Reading’s settler is cash-rushed as the city is starving. I understand why the whip penalty there; it came from Tiwanaku. Ollantaytambo gets a harbour. This city needs a lot of work. Canterbury switched to MDI in order to not waste the chop. I expect that will be the last one. Dover gets a settler and a scientist. It will need a duct next. Brighton, which is badly overrunning its horse build goes on a diet too. More diets at Leeds; hopefully the FP will help this city.
Cities to move
Yaxchilan and Chichen Itza. There is room for three more cities in this area. Both cities are given starvation diets. Yaxchilan’s settler is cash-rushed.
Bath. Corrupt cities should never be placed on flood plains (wastes food) and the location is bad in terms of future city placement as well. I will start the process of shrinking it down. Its settler is also cash-rushed.
Smyrna is sitting by the volcano and has to get away from it, but that won’t happen during my turns. For my part, I will make sure that it doesn’t grow. Furthermore, if it is moved north-east, there is room for an additional city in that mountain valley.
Corrupt and semi-corrupt cities
Cities building wealth are switched. Two courthouse builds are vetoed. Three others are left as they are too far gone for there to be an alternative. All scientists in size one cities are fired in order to let the towns grow, except for those which would violate Andronicus’ rule about using 1-food tiles. Bonampak is size one and almost finished a settler; switched to a treb.
Other stuff
Astronomy is now due in four. I can’t hold up this science rate because many cities are starving. However, the FP is due next turn and that will help a lot.
I start moving MDIs to Brighton and horses to Portsmouth. Pikes move into position to get Gil down from the mountain tops. As discussed, Newcastle is gifted to Theo. She goes polite. Maybe with luck it will flip back. It is badly culture-squeezed between us and Gil.
There! Press <enter>.
Turn log
[inter-turn]Theo cancels our ROP. I agree. She’s already back to annoyed.
Cuzco FP -> treb
Nottingham settler->duct
Coventry horse->horse
Hasting horse->market
Yaxchilan settler->settler
Brighton horse->horse
Norwich horse->horse
Leeds barracks->horse
Lagartero settler->settler
Reading settler->market
Bath settler->settler
T1 70 AD New London founded->settler
For some reason, war weariness hits big time. It takes 90% lux to calm Manchester and many other cities are unhappy at 30%. The Mumbles is 100% war weary. I decide its time to give up. I take a few potshots on random Sumerian units and then give Gil peace for 15gpt + 8g. Sorry guys. Lux is set back to 30%. The machine will be turned on Theo. Both Adrianople and Constantinople are building wonders and she should be gassed from her war with Gil. They shouldn’t be difficult to take down. Potshots follow.
Vet LB vs reg archer -> 4/4 LB [1-0]
Vet horse vs vet longbow -> 3/4 LB and retreat
Vet horse vs vet longbow -> 4/5 horse [2-0]
Vet horse vs vet longbow -> 3/4 horse [3-0]
London is grown to size 12. Leo’s is now due in 20. After more mining, that should be even better. Switch core builds from military to markets and courts. Rush a settler at Quiriqua.
[inter-turn]
Quiriqua settler->settler.
Resistance in Caesarea ends.
T2 90AD Move military.
New York founded -> settler
T3 110 AD
New Nottingham founded -> settler
New Hastings founded -> worker
Horseman sneaks into spy on Andrianople. On top we find a reg spear!
[inter-turn]
Learn Astro, start Gunpowder.
Dover settler -> caravel
Resistance in Smyrna ends
T4 130 AD
Horse goes back. DoW on Theo.
Battle of Nicaea
Vet horse vs vet spear -> 3/5 horse [4-0]
Elite MDI vs reg spear -> 4/5 MDI [5-0]
The city is taken. Start settler.
Capture 4 slaves in the area.
New Canterbury founded -> settler
[inter-turn]
Machu Picchu Court -> settler
Nicaea riots and will starve
Liverpool horse -> worker
Portsmouth settler -> worker
Barb Nation goes into anarchy!
T5 150 AD
Battle of Andrianople
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 3/3 spear and retreat
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 2/4 horse [6-0]
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 2/3 spear and retreat
Elite horse vs 2/3 spear -> 1/3 spear [6-1]
Elite horse vs 1/3 spear -> 4/5 horse [7-1]
City falls. Starts a settler.
New Coventry founded -> worker
New Warwick founded -> worker
New Oxford founded -> worker
I demand that Gil leave our lands – and he does. Grrr.
London fully optimised. Leo’s now due in 15.
Two workers are merged into Cuzco.
Cash rush settler from Bath.
[inter-turn]
3/3 Archer vs 2/4 horse -> 3/3 archer and retreat
Resistance in Adrianople ends.
Isin worker -> worker
Canterbury Market -> horse
Richmond settler -> settler
Leicester court -> worker
Bath settler -> settler
Dyes are connected
T6 170 AD
Elite horse vs 3/3 archer -> 4/5 horse [8-1]
New Liverpool founded -> Caravel
Vet horse vs 3/3 sword-> 1/4 horse [9-1]
Upgrade galley to carvel
I am surprised to find that the rioters in Andrianople have 0 flip risk
Switch Norwich to a Market
[inter-turn]
Oxford caravel -> market
Liverpool worker -> caravel
Bonampak settler -> worker
T7 190 AD
Merge a worker into Cuzco
New Dover founded -> worker
Elite MDI vs reg LB -> 5/5 MDI [10-1]
Switch Mumbles and Neu Canterbury to workers
Short rush duct at Nottingham and market at Warwick
Caravels from Dover and Oxford head off to explore the world
Switch New Warwick to settler
MM, adding scientists until we can bring in Gun @ 30% science
[inter-turn]
Gunpowder -> Chemistry
Pirate ship spotted!
Hastings market -> horse
Canterbury horse->horse
Leicester worker->duct
T8 210 AD
We have salt
One near Warwick and another near BonampakNew Brighton founded -> worker
Oops. False alarm about the pirate ship; it was just a dromon
Reg LB vs. vet horse -> 2/4 LB and retreat.
Battle of Constantinople
Vet horse vs. vet pike -> 3/4 pike [10-2]
Another vet pike shows up on top
Time to think. I have 13 horses ready. Constantinople is probably defended by 2 pikes and 2 spears. Offa’s dandy little calc tells me that I should win 96% of the time against that. All right. Let’s go for it.
Vet horse vs. vet pike -> 2/5 horse [11-2] Yes man! But another pike shows up on top, this time a regular. That would mean that the spears are regulars too. Offa says 93% now.
Vet horse vs. reg pike -> 2/3 pike and retreat. Another pike shows up. Sheesh.
Vet horse vs reg pike -> 3/3 pike [11-3]
Vet horse vs reg pike -> 3/4 pike [11-4] and another reg shows up. Has she upgraded her spears? I give up before I lose our army.
We’ll take Varna instead.
New Norwich founded -> settler.
I demand that Gil leave our lands and once against he does
Battle of Newcastle
Elite MDI vs reg spear -> 3/5 MDI [12-5]
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 3/3 spear [12-6] I quit, moving other forces in.
Our caravels find Barbaralia
[inter-turn]
Nottingham duct-> market
Warwick market-> horse
Exeter duct -> court
Cambridge court -> settler
T9 230 AD
Battle of Newcastle (round 2)
Vet LB vs reg spear -> 2/4 LB [13-6]
Vet MDI vs reg spear -> 2/4 MSI [14-6]
Elite horse vs. reg LB -> 2/5 horse [15-6]
And Newcastle returns to the fold. Both cits are Byz
New Leeds founded -> worker
[inter-turn]
Barb galleys sink a carvel
[16-7]@ Varna reg LB vs. 3/5 MDI fort on a mountain -> 1/4 LB [16-8]
Cuzco market -> barracks
Hastings horse->horse
Canterbury horse -> horse
Coventry market -> horse
Resistance ends in Newcastle
Gloucester court -> market
Ipswich settler -> settler
Mumbles worker -> worker
Neu Canterbury worker -> worker
Battle of Varna
Vet MDI vs reg pike -> 1/4 MDI [17-8]
Vet horse vs reg spear -> 2/4 spear and retreat
Vet horse vs 2/4 spear -> 5/5 horse and the city is ours [18-8]
Elite horse vs reg LB -> 5/5 horse [19-8]
4/5 horse vs 1/4 LB -> 4/5 horse [20-8]
I’ll stop here. There’s lots of unmoved units and I haven’t MM’d the cities but they should be pretty good. I think I left the horse at New Leeds and the Pike by Old Leeds on goto (heading for Norwich and Portsmouth respectively).
Post mortem
I spent most of my turns building infra - courts, ducts, markets and cities. The economy is now in pretty good shape. Despite this concentration, I was moderately successful with a small war on Theo. I also managed to shave six turns off Leo's and to keep up 4-turn research all the way along.
Note that, because we now have some markets, it's attractive to use scientists for research and the slider for cash. We are currently doing 3.52 on the slider, which is +121gpt. Still 4-turn research and several smaller cities are reaching the point where they can support scientists of their own.
Redbad, you’ll be glad to know that I leave you with fewer workers than I started with.
More importantly, because of the 13 new cities and the growth of old ones, our support costs have now fallen to zero.Theo is ready to sue for peace. She’ll give us a nice hunk of change but we should press on. I suggest taking one more city and then waiting for cavs to take out Constantinople, leaving her with Heraclea. That’s only 10 turns away (exactly when Leo’s will finish
). In the meantime, you can play with Bill. Our peace treaty with him ends to 6 turns. Next player gets to take revenge on Gil.I’d recommend cash-rushing Smyrna and Bath to move the cities. We have a bit of cash and are producing plenty more. Cash-rushing settlers pays back very quickly. There are plenty of other cities which could benefit from this as well. Yaxchilan and Chitzen Itza have to be moved as well.
Sorry about the failed attack on Constantinople. I really thought it was no better defended than Arianopolis was. As for the plan to continue with the attack on the Sumerians, I have absolutely no idea why WW suddenly got so bad. They didn’t attack. I didn’t have troops in their territory. All I did was to gift Newcastle to Theo as planned. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
I'm less sure that losing the caravel was a pimp move than I was at the time. Notice the barb galleys in the sea tiles. Does this mean that galleys can travel in the sea? Or that they have Astronomy?
Our culture graph kinda gives away the fact that we learned education
We're still far ahead in all departments though.Andronicus
Emperor
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- Feb 18, 2005
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Hey things are getting exciting. We can reach the barbs and I can smell the cavs.
Great going on the 4 turn research, it does make sense to maximise our specialists with scientists and boost our generated commerce with markets.
We still need more core work to aim to get all tiles in use.
re draft unhappiness in Nott, I'm afraid thats my fault as I whipped heavily just prior to going into anarchy to get a few more units out. Hastings is also still wearing whip unhappiness, I would hope it will wear off soon as it is 35 turns now!
I note that there are only 2 salt sources on our continent and we control both.
I think we should be able to connect / disconnect allowing us to build horses and upgrade to cavs with help of Leo's and commerce directed at max income. This could most efficiently be done at Bonempak where would only need a pike to pillage at end of turn and 3 workers to road at beginning of each turn prior to upgrading. Therefore I suggest salt at Norwich be disconected once cavs discovered and I suggest we avoid learning chivalry.
London will be able to run as 27spt 3 turn cav producer if it takes the hill off Canterbury in place of the forest - if it does this now it will bring Leo's forward by 1 turn. Other cities can be managed as 10 or 15 spt 3 or 2 turn horses. During our GA this will vary of course
re GA - highest priority for next turnset should be capturing Constantinople before Leo build so we get the benefit of GA on wonder completion. I would suggest ignoring all other Byz towns and bring our full force against the capital. We have the time to get our MDI and LBs there which I think will sig reduce losses (besides horses have value as future cavs, MDI and LBs are expendible)
Great going on the 4 turn research, it does make sense to maximise our specialists with scientists and boost our generated commerce with markets.
We still need more core work to aim to get all tiles in use.
re draft unhappiness in Nott, I'm afraid thats my fault as I whipped heavily just prior to going into anarchy to get a few more units out. Hastings is also still wearing whip unhappiness, I would hope it will wear off soon as it is 35 turns now!
I note that there are only 2 salt sources on our continent and we control both.
I think we should be able to connect / disconnect allowing us to build horses and upgrade to cavs with help of Leo's and commerce directed at max income. This could most efficiently be done at Bonempak where would only need a pike to pillage at end of turn and 3 workers to road at beginning of each turn prior to upgrading. Therefore I suggest salt at Norwich be disconected once cavs discovered and I suggest we avoid learning chivalry.
London will be able to run as 27spt 3 turn cav producer if it takes the hill off Canterbury in place of the forest - if it does this now it will bring Leo's forward by 1 turn. Other cities can be managed as 10 or 15 spt 3 or 2 turn horses. During our GA this will vary of course
re GA - highest priority for next turnset should be capturing Constantinople before Leo build so we get the benefit of GA on wonder completion. I would suggest ignoring all other Byz towns and bring our full force against the capital. We have the time to get our MDI and LBs there which I think will sig reduce losses (besides horses have value as future cavs, MDI and LBs are expendible)
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