SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[scoutsout]

In looking at Gator's analysis (which is awesome ) I see a couple of minor points that we might be able to use to improve on things.

First, there wasn't any discussion of leveraging Theodora. She is not far from getting a free tech, and the AI tend to research Nationalism to the point that it borders on a fetish. We could probably let Theodora learn Nationalism for us, or at least lower our beaker cost if she knows it. There's also another scientific civ we can leverage... though this will probably be the last chance to get anything useful out of Sumeria.

We should probably sell Magnetism to Byzantines. Whether we should take gpt off her hands or let her keep the income for her own research is another discussion. Taking GPT off her hands, and then gifting her into the IA might give us the gold we need to buy her free tech. If it's Nationalism... that'd be great. If it's steam, we can use that too. If it's Medicine... we have a shot at ToE. In short, I'm not sold on self-researching Nationalism. We've got to figure out a way to leverage our scientific neighbors.

On the whole Republic GA discussion... another minor point. The extra GA gold we get will also affect the total amount of gold available for entertainment - meaning this: It will be a lot easier to keep our people happy with the Golden Age Gold. This in turn will make it a lot easier to realize Gator's targets.

Right now I'm wondering if it might be possible for us to snag ToE. The two free techs are just huge for us... considering that we must have those techs to get to Marines.

We should probably take one of our 20spt cities and start the Military Academy. One Infantry Army with a handful of Explorers can be a pillaging terror. We could put a serious crimp in the Barbarian production if we could pull that off.

 

[DJMGator13]

Nice additions, Scout. Three more points to consider:

1) The GA usually lessens the effect of WW. I'd have to say that most of our current WW is from the Barb war and us losing units to them. The Dutch war is too new to be generating that kind of unhappiness. So our GA may help us control the lux slider and research faster.

2) On trading for Nationalism, don't the AI's tend to overvalue that tech? It may take several techs to trade for it or alot of gpt. I think I'd gift both scientific civs to the IA and then see where we can focus our research efforts to find the quickest and best trading scenario for getting us to Communism. I haven't run the numbers yet but I'd even consider making a straight push for TOE, trading for Nationalism along the way and then use our 2 free techs to select Communism and RParts. This would/could allow us to start concentrating on the barbs sooner, but also hinges on being able to consumate the trade for Nationalism.

I'll try to run some more numbers today.

3) Once we gift SUM and BYZ into the IA and can acquire their free techs there may not be any use for them. We do not need to be in the Modern Age to win this game, so there may not be another opportunity to gain a tech from them. By that point in the game we should be nearing the destruction of the Barb Nation (ie, awaiting the arrival of the Marines).

EDIT: (Forgot to add the most important point)
The Barbs were not in the IA at 750AD, so they only reached that age recently. So TOE with a prebuild could still be a possibility.

 

[Mistfit]

How is our worker numbers doing? We will become much happier and with a lot more gold to play with once the land is covered with rails. THis of course will also make it much easier to defend our land once we have a rail system in place.

Is there only the 3 of us playing this right now?

I could have sworn there were more than that when I signed up

I will not be able to get to it before tomorrow night at the earliest.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I'm back, but currently in the middle of my S4otm turn set.
Due to server problems at work, I may have to spend most of tomorrow working. Close to finished, though, should be able to play at least one turn set next week

 

[scoutsout]

The Barbs were not in the IA at 750AD, so they only reached that age recently. So TOE with a prebuild could still be a possibility.

I missed the signal... according to my log (2 pages back! )the Barbarians queue'd up Newtons on the IBT between 790 and 800 AD. That's probably the point they went industrial.

I think we need to use ToE for the Traditional Atomic Theory>Electronics route. I have frequently been able to trade Atomic Theory for Corporation. We might be able to parlay AT for Nationalism, and Electronics for Corporation...or something like that. Hopefully we can get Theodora to research Refining while we go for Steel... or something like that.

Hopefully Theodora won't waste her gold on dead-end MA techs.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Remember that communism also gives us an additional benefit... veteran spies.

 

[leif erikson]

I could have sworn there were more than that when I signed up

There were??

OK Gator, you sold me on Communism. The Secret Police HQ is a good deal.

I also agree that we should consider going straight to Scientific Method and ToE. Atomic Theory and Electronics are not required techs to get to Marines, only Advanced Flight. If we can get to ToE, trade for Nationalism and pick up Communism and Repl Parts, that sounds like the fastest way to Marines and will provide us with units to attack (Artillery) and defend (Infantry)

EDIT - Sorry Scout, I reread your post and you're talking about using AT and Elec as trade bait. Our only trading partner is Theodora, will she have what we need in time? I suppose we can make that decision as we near completion of ToE.

I think if we can launch a small effort to gain at least one of those islands off the Barb coast with Lux's, they will help towards mitigating War Weariness and provide us some more time to get to Communism. We should be able to take Apache2 with enough Cannons and Cavs, raze it and replace it with our own settler. Then we'll have to defend it!!

Nice work...

 

[Mistfit]

Does anyone know for sure if we (MoW) or the Barbs (DoD ~ Dinghy of Death) have Lethal Bombardment with our fleet?

 

[leif erikson]

Does anyone know for sure if we (MoW) or the Barbs (DoD ~ Dinghy of Death) have Lethal Bombardment with our fleet?

I don't know for sure.

But I know that you will be able to find out during your turn set. However, if MoW does have lethal bombardment, that will set off our GA, no?

@Gator - any timing considerations for the GA? Do we set it off as soon as we can or wait until we enter the IA?

 

[Mistfit]

That was one of my concerns as well.

Another issue is that if the Barb's do not have Lethal Bombardment we could settle one of the 2 or 3 tile islands to their SE and give them a target they cannot possibly take. It might give us a breather on our home continent

 

[DJMGator13]

That was one of my concerns as well.

Another issue is that if the Barb's do not have Lethal Bombardment we could settle one of the 2 or 3 tile islands to their SE and give them a target they cannot possibly take. It might give us a breather on our home continent

We could set out a lone unit for a pirate ship to bomb to find out in they have lethat bomb. Remember Gyathaar said the civlopedia may not be accurate, he choose something similar to the units he inserted in the game.

As for the GA, no real reason to hold back on it. We want it under Republic. We want to concentrate on cannons and cavs and ofcourse MoW so we can contol the seas. Do we have enough coastal cities with harbors to crank out a decent fleet during our GA?

I'll take a quick pick before I play my 4SGOTM01 set.

 

[DJMGator13]

Hey Scout, they posted results from recent xOTMs. We both won awards for COTM24. One of my 100K games finally panned out.

 

[scoutsout]

Hey Scout, they posted results from recent xOTMs. We both won awards for COTM24. One of my 100K games finally panned out.

Hey - that's pretty cool! Congrats on your 100k game! I'm quite surprised I got an award after Tao posted in the spoiler about being well on the way to Alpha C. at the point I won the U.N. vote.

 

[DJMGator13]

Triple Post & First potential Hurricane of the week old season
(Scout brokeup the triple play)

Do we have enough coastal cities with harbors to crank out a decent fleet during our GA?

I'll take a quick pick before I play my 4SGOTM01 set.

Nothing like answering your own question.

I estimate that we can build a fleet of 30 MoW during our GA. I'd build 1 asap and trigger the GA. Here's my calculation.

As for researching, we can't get all the way thru Electricity during our GA, if making the TOE run.

@Mistfit - I'd play thru the discovery of TOG (7 turns). Then gift the 2 scientific civs and see what they get for their free techs. Then we can decide if we want to make a TOE run or a Communsim run.

 

[scoutsout]

Do we have enough coastal cities with harbors to crank out a decent fleet during our GA?

Looking back at my analysis on the previous page and comparing it to your analysis (that you posted while I was typing a note that I just deleted...)

• You caught London, which needs a harbor.
• Canterbury can be a shipyard immediately.
• Kish desperately needs its aqueduct.
• I missed the possibility of building ships at Isin.
• Macchu Picchu has a market in the queue that may need a little help to complete.
• Oxford needs some serious worker turns. IIRC, it's stuck at size 4 and working a bunch of forests. It has only one road link, which was cut once during my turns. The harbor kept it connected and probably out of disorder.
• Akskah has an aqueduct in the queue, and a harbor. We have 2 workers there trimming terrain. I think I've got a forest chop or two headed into the bin. That one is close enough to London to be "core city" productive if we can get the plains irrigated and get the population up. One of those workers could be re-tasked to Oxford after getting some roads in.
• Don't overlook Tikal as another city in the east where we could build some ships. Right now it's at Pop3 with 2spt net, and a courthouse in the queue. With a little creative short rushing this town could be brought online and set to building ship.

 

[leif erikson]

Please don't forget some Galleons.

Perhaps we could pound out a Galley or two for upgrade? I really would like to get that island with the Ivory and defend it with 8 or so MoW's. Let's see those Barbs get by that??
Hope I don't have to eat those words??

 

[Mistfit]

@Mistfit - I'd play thru the discovery of TOG (7 turns). Then gift the 2 scientific civs and see what they get for their free techs. Then we can decide if we want to make a TOE run or a Communsim run.

Short recap... I got to ToG (6 turns I think)
Dutch kicked off our island...
Physics sold to BYZ and Maya for close to 100 GPT
No Barb Drop offs but lots of bombardments and I think drop offs will be this next turn...
Barbs planting Propaganda in our cities...

Turn of age...
BYZ gets Steam
Sumer gets Medicine

I figure we will go for Nationalism (6 turns or less dependant on my GA starting MoW 1-2 turns away)

I will play the rest tomorrow night

Good night

 

[leif erikson]

Sounds good Mistfit.

If we can trade for Medicine and Steam, then it appears to me that next tech could be Eletricity and on to Scientific Method and ToE. Hopefully, we can trade Electricity for Nationalism and get Communism and Replaceable Parts for free techs? Or, if it will take some time to build ToE, then research to Communism and see what other techs are available?

The Infantry and Artillery available with Replacable parts would sure make an invasion easier.

 

[Mistfit]

I do btw have a full write up but that was a shortened version. I wanted to discuss the research path before proceeding.

I did start a prebuild for the ToE... somewhere

Edit: neither AI will currently trade for Steam or Medicine btw.

 

[leif erikson]

I do btw have a full write up but that was a shortened version. I wanted to discuss the research path before proceeding.

Shortened version was good enough for me...

I did start a prebuild for the ToE... somewhere

Edit: neither AI will currently trade for Steam or Medicine btw.

Of course they won't trade!!

Then, it looks like it is Nationalism full speed ahead. Is there sufficient time in the pre-build to get Nationalism, Electricity and Scientific Method? Do we think there is time for Communism in there somewhere? How about a pre-build in Tiawanaku for Secret Police HQ?

Sorry, too many questions, wish I had some answers?