SGOTM 10 - Xteam

leif erikson · Sep 8, 2009

rrau said:
Nice job so far. My dad has a 24 hour caregiver now, so I can get some free time. Maybe I can take a turn here and there. Good luck, Leif. Don't forgive the Haka!

Nice to hear from you and it sounds like you are well.

And Haka we go!

<<< THE SAVE >>>

Decided to play through getting our next Great Person and:
We now have a second Great Engineer, located in St. Pete and I think we are ready for peace with Gandhi. In two turns, Moscow will grow to size 8 and we can pop-rush a Settler for Ice City, wherever we choose to place it?

The Log:
Turn 53 – 1545 AD continued
Move LB to take the Great Artist, never took a Great Person before! The Great Artist dies. :thumbsup:

Move the WE to cover the LB now next to Delhi.
Move Caravel south to demonstrate before Delhi, see if G moves his Caravel to counter me?
Move LB near Rostov east.
Knight attacks LB on the Ivory and kills him, also taking 1 HP from the Treb, is now at 5.2/10 and can promo next turn. Move him away from G’s LB, onto the Desert Hill tile.
Move naval units, Work Boats headed north.
Pop-rush Settler in Moscow for 4 pop points.
MM Moscow to work Gold Hills, Corn, Cow and Clam.
MM St. Pete to work the Rice tile.

IBT
Barb Galley attacks our Caravel and dies near Orange City.
Moscow Settler => Theater.
Novgorod Warrior => Wealth.
Moscow’s borders expand, but not in reality.
G’s LB seems to be headed for Bombay, which now holds two Cats and a wounded Treb.
I no longer can see the Fast Worker.

Turn 54 – 1555 AD
Hire a Scientist in St. Pete.
Gandhi and Churchill now have Gunpowder along with Mao, and all will trade. (well, G when we make peace?)
Move Settler north.
Move LB and WE east to look for Worker. Find him building a road on the PH.
Continue my Cat and Mouse game with G’s Caravel. He’s following.
Delhi contains four LB’s and a Galley.
Promote Knight to CBT1 and start healing.
Change production in Orange City to Wealth as it will be awhile before we need this Work Boat. Same thing in Horse City.

IBT
Rostov’s culture expands, change build to a Theater.
G’s Worker moves east.

Turn 55 – 1560 AD
Keep Work Boats moving north and west.
Move Explorer to check Delhi, contains four LB’s, a Galley and a Cat.
Checking techs, Roosevelt now has Education.

IBT
Moscow Theater => Wealth.
St. Pete’s National Epic => Work Boat.

Turn 56 – 1565 AD
Return the Rice tile to Moscow.
MM Horse City for hammers and Gold.
Checking on Delhi, same units in the city.
Found the Fish City, set production to Culture.
We successfully lured away G’s Caravel.

IBT
G’s Worker shows up near Delhi.

Turn 57 – 1570 AD
Rostov’s Clam is netted.
Decide to play one more turn to see what Great Person we get in St. Pete.
Trade World Map to Mao, Churchill and Roosevelt for 5 Gold each.

IBT
Barb Galley attacks our Caravel and dies.
A Great Engineer is born in St. Petersburg.

Turn 58 – 1575 AD
Promote Caravel near Orange City to CBT1 and set to heal.
No other units are moved.

Save and upload to server.

leif erikson · Sep 8, 2009

From the in game log:

Spoiler :

leif erikson · Sep 8, 2009

Roster:
Frederiksburg - UP
Mad Professor - On Deck
ShannonCT
Cactus Pete
leif - Just Played! :beer:

PaulisKhan - Computer on order and awaiting internet! :thumbsup:

rrau - Great to hear from you. Let us know when your ready to grab the mouse.

Grover22 - Bitten by Real Life. :mischief:

Cactus Pete · Sep 8, 2009

Good that you can be back with us, rrau.

Nice turn set, leif.

Suggestions:

Take Moscow citizen off farm and put on windmill.
Need to finish worker in OC, as we're losing hammers. If wish to delay in order for city to grow first, then probably should take citizen off hills and onto coast for two turns, then whip.
Since G is conveniently moving his cat out of Delhi, we may have the option of capturing the worker before he finishes pasturing the cows. Need to move our lb and WE away from cat this turn (but not threatening the worker); move knight 1S next turn and then SSW the following turn (don't think the cat will attack him), then put all three of our units on the silk 2S of Delhi the following turn (with the explorer within range of the cows as well); then we can decide on the ensuing turn whether the worker is worth the potential cost in units. One potential benefit of a successful attack might be G's willingness to trade Gunpowder for peace. Along this line, we might also consider researching a small part of the way to Gunpowder to facilitate that peace trade.
Looks like there is island real estate available to the west. How valuable to us is this?

Frederiksberg · Sep 9, 2009

Sounds like you have made good progress leif :goodjob:

leif erikson said:
We now have a second Great Engineer, located in St. Pete and I think we are ready for peace with Gandhi.

Good news. This means that we can bulb a lot of both Gunpowder and Chemistry. When we have Chemistry and Caste we can start using workshops in many cities.

leif erikson said:
Moscows borders expand, but not in reality.

It's still important because we now get +20 cpt in the FC. Hopefully we can win back the forest from Gandhi.

leif erikson said:
We successfully lured away Gs Caravel.

Excellent! So your idea worked out :goodjob:

leif erikson · Sep 9, 2009

Cactus Pete said:
Take Moscow citizen off farm and put on windmill.

Not sure I agree with this. I think our primary task is to get set up to get into Caste and get those Great People cranking out of St. Pete. We shouldn't delay population growth in Moscow as we can pop-rush the Settler for Ice City in a couple of turns.

Cactus Pete said:
Need to finish worker in OC, as we're losing hammers. If wish to delay in order for city to grow first, then probably should take citizen off hills and onto coast for two turns, then whip.

Concur, sorry I missed this.

Cactus Pete said:
Since G is conveniently moving his cat out of Delhi, we may have the option of capturing the worker before he finishes pasturing the cows. Need to move our lb and WE away from cat this turn (but not threatening the worker); move knight 1S next turn and then SSW the following turn (don't think the cat will attack him), then put all three of our units on the silk 2S of Delhi the following turn (with the explorer within range of the cows as well); then we can decide on the ensuing turn whether the worker is worth the potential cost in units. One potential benefit of a successful attack might be G's willingness to trade Gunpowder for peace. Along this line, we might also consider researching a small part of the way to Gunpowder to facilitate that peace trade.

I'm not sure about this. It is probably worth a try, but I'm not sure that G is going to give Gunpowder for peace. As long as continued war doesn't slow us down any more, then we can keep at it.

Cactus Pete said:
Looks like there is island real estate available to the west. How valuable to us is this?

Yes, and it looks fairly useful. The more cities we can plant, the fewer we have to take later. The question for me is whether we delay the change to Caste to get these city sites?

Frederiksberg said:
Good news. This means that we can bulb a lot of both Gunpowder and Chemistry. When we have Chemistry and Caste we can start using workshops in many cities.

Wish we could speed up Printing Press so we could trade for Gunpowder. Although the delay to Chemistry, and useful Workshops, is probably not worth it.

Frederiksberg said:
It's still important because we now get +20 cpt in the FC. Hopefully we can win back the forest from Gandhi.

Yes, at least we got the Hill back.

Frederiksberg said:
Excellent! So your idea worked out

It worked well. No worries for getting the Work Boat there. In the next set you need to be aware that, unless we make peace, G's Caravel is in the Fog somewhere north of the Copper tile on that little island to the west. Keep your distance...

Cactus Pete · Sep 9, 2009

"This means that we can bulb a lot of both Gunpowder and Chemistry. When we have Chemistry and Caste we can start using workshops in many cities." If we can capture G's worker and kill a couple more units in the process, think there's a chance we can get Gunpowder for peace. Is there an amount of Gunpowder that we can't bulb? If so, suggest we start researching it now to make Gunppowder for peace a more likely happening.

Cactus Pete · Sep 9, 2009

"Not sure I agree with this. I think our primary task is to get set up to get into Caste and get those Great People cranking out of St. Pete. No debating that primacy. We shouldn't delay population growth in Moscow as we can pop-rush the Settler for Ice City in a couple of turns." On a percentage basis, the food loss is not great, and the added hammer is actually two, so the windmill is a much more productive tile at this particular point. Fred can probably micromanage to get the next settler out in the minimum turns needed and still work the windmill most, if not all, of the time.

Frederiksberg · Sep 9, 2009

Cactus Pete said:
"This means that we can bulb a lot of both Gunpowder and Chemistry. When we have Chemistry and Caste we can start using workshops in many cities." If we can capture G's worker and kill a couple more units in the process, think there's a chance we can get Gunpowder for peace. Is there an amount of Gunpowder that we can't bulb? If so, suggest we start researching it now to make Gunpowder for peace a more likely happening.

Yes, I believe we need to do a few turns of research in addition to bulbing. Will look into this. Would be great to get Gunpowder for peace. If this is not possible my 2nd priority would be to push Gandhi out of Caste. And then, of course, to get some gold on top of these deals.

Cactus Pete said:
"Not sure I agree with this. I think our primary task is to get set up to get into Caste and get those Great People cranking out of St. Pete. No debating that primacy. We shouldn't delay population growth in Moscow as we can pop-rush the Settler for Ice City in a couple of turns." On a percentage basis, the food loss is not great, and the added hammer is actually two, so the windmill is a much more productive tile at this particular point. Fred can probably micromanage to get the next settler out in the minimum turns needed and still work the windmill most, if not all, of the time.

Working the windmill is probably slightly stronger. I will look into MM'ing so that the next settler is not delayed.

leif erikson said:
Yes, and it looks fairly useful. The more cities we can plant, the fewer we have to take later. The question for me is whether we delay the change to Caste to get these city sites?

There is also a spot on the barb island to the east with two food resources and some plains where we can build workshops. Now may be the time to plan for the remaining settlers. Ideally we want to whip settlers in both Moscow and St.Pete as the last thing before changing to Caste. And probably also some workers in the other cities.

Cactus Pete · Sep 9, 2009

You've just pointed out that we have a use for more than two settlers. Sure this isn't the time to produce additional ones while the whip is available?

Frederiksberg · Sep 9, 2009

Cactus Pete said:
You've just pointed out that we have a use for more than two settlers. Sure this isn't the time to produce additional ones while the whip is available?

I was talking about the last two settlers and didn't mean to imply that these were the only two.

leif erikson · Sep 9, 2009

Frederiksberg said:
Yes, I believe we need to do a few turns of research in addition to bulbing. Will look into this. Would be great to get Gunpowder for peace. If this is not possible my 2nd priority would be to push Gandhi out of Caste. And then, of course, to get some gold on top of these deals.

Gunpowder costs 1814 beakers and bulbing it yields 1587 beakers, leaving 227.
At 100% research, we can produce 101 beakers per turn.
At our current rate of 50%, we are producing 54 bpt, so 5-turns.

Frederiksberg · Sep 10, 2009

We have a couple of important issues that will influence the next turn set.

Do we finish PP (15 turns) and trade for Gunpowder or do we bulb and research the remainder (4-5 turns).
How many settlers do we want before we switch to Caste and where do we settle.

It's tempting to go for the trade but there is a problem because our continuing expansion will slow down our research and it may take more than 15 turns to get PP unless we can find a way to raise some cash. We will get a little from the peace deal with Gandhi and perhaps we can build wealth in more cities also.

On the settler issue I would suggest we build 2 more or 4 more. If we choose 2 more I suggest to settle the Ice(Is)land city on top the iron and also the sheep+sea food city on the eastern barb island. This city can produce 25 hpt at size 6 (with Chemistry and Caste). If we want 4 more cities I would suggest to also settle the sheep island to the west and the newly discovered island to the NW. Sheep island is necessary in order to be able to reach the NW island with galleys.

Single tile island to the east would make a good secondary GP farm but it's unlikely that we can keep the fish close to NY if the Americans decide to settle a city next to the fish resource (Don't know what the chances are of this happening).

Mad Professor · Sep 10, 2009

We need to minimise the amount of time it takes us to get to Fission. This must remain the principal long term goal. I think it would be good to make decisions about further settlers in that light. Can we think of the delay in cranking out a long list of scientists and extra maintenance costs in terms of payoff on the date to Fission? These cities will help us long term, but how much will they cost meanwhile? I'm sorry I cant' offer an answer to the question. I guess I'm just making sure we don't forget that objective

leif erikson · Sep 10, 2009

I really like the idea of trading for Gunpowder too. What I haven't resolved for myself is what do we get with the second Great Engineer? Is what we get worth the cost of waiting?

Do you think the city to the east will be able to fight Barb culture and, most likely, a stream of Barb units trying to take the city?

Perhaps we can keep the question under consideration until our Caravel "sees" more of the far western island and what resources it may hold for us?

btw, is there anything we need copper for in preparing for nukes? That would be the best argument for settling the western island?

Frederiksberg · Sep 10, 2009

leif erikson said:
Do you think the city to the east will be able to fight Barb culture and, most likely, a stream of Barb units trying to take the city?

Barb cities are rarely making much culture so grabbing some tiles from the barbs should be easy and the barb units can be blocked by 1-2 units posted E or SE of the city. In a way it may help us by getting a unit to level 4 so that we can build the HE.

leif erikson said:
btw, is there anything we need copper for in preparing for nukes? That would be the best argument for settling the western island?

Are you talking about the small sheep island or the bigger island with the fish and some grassland? Sheep island is likely needed for a galley to pass to the bigger island via a culture bridge. A city on the big island would be quite productive (~25 hpt) and should easily pay back the invested hammers.

Don't see any need for copper.

Frederiksberg · Sep 10, 2009

leif erikson said:
I really like the idea of trading for Gunpowder too. What I haven't resolved for myself is what do we get with the second Great Engineer? Is what we get worth the cost of waiting?

PP opens up for Replaceable Parts. So we would bulb Rep. Parts with one GE and Chemistry with the other (Some additional self research required in both cases). Rep. Parts is quite useful giving us 1 extra hammer for our wind mills and water mills.

leif erikson · Sep 10, 2009

Frederiksberg said:
Barb cities are rarely making much culture so grabbing some tiles from the barbs should be easy and the barb units can be blocked by 1-2 units posted E or SE of the city. In a way it may help us by getting a unit to level 4 so that we can build the HE..

I agree, let's do it.

Frederiksberg said:
Are you talking about the small sheep island or the bigger island with the fish and some grassland? Sheep island is likely needed for a galley to pass to the bigger island via a culture bridge. A city on the big island would be quite productive (~25 hpt) and should easily pay back the invested hammers.

Don't see any need for copper.

I was trying to assess the need for these city sites based upon whether copper is needed for doubling the speed of anything we'll need. While I dislike leaving city sites we know will be taken and we will have to conquer later, I'm not sure they are worth our slowing our trip to Biology, Communism and Fission to get them.

Frederiksberg said:
PP opens up for Replaceable Parts. So we would bulb Rep. Parts with one GE and Chemistry with the other (Some additional self research required in both cases). Rep. Parts is quite useful giving us 1 extra hammer for our wind mills and water mills.

This makes it seem a whole lot more worth the effort, if we can keep up the research rate.

Perhaps CP's idea to try to get G's Worker and kill a few units to allow us to get Gunpowder in a peace deal is more worth trying? :drool:

Cactus Pete · Sep 10, 2009

If we're going to build 4 more settlers -- and I'm leaning in that direction -- what about growing SP to size 11 or 12 before whipping so that we can constantly run scientist(s) specialists?

Frederiksberg · Sep 11, 2009

leif erikson said:
Perhaps CP's idea to try to get G's Worker and kill a few units to allow us to get Gunpowder in a peace deal is more worth trying?

As long as Gandhi is not threatening our cities or improvements we should continue the war. Not sure how we can capture the worker since he can only be captured by a unit that is moved right next to him. Anyway, I can try. Perhaps I should move the LB and WE away from Delhi to avoid an attack from the Musketman. Unsure if the LB has been fortified where he is now - it looks like he's not fortified.

If we try to trade for Gunpowder we must focus all beakers on PP so there will be no time for partially researching Gunpowder (also, this makes less sense if we hope to trade.).

Cactus Pete said:
If we're going to build 4 more settlers -- and I'm leaning in that direction -- what about growing SP to size 11 or 12 before whipping so that we can constantly run scientist(s) specialists?

That's one option, but even at size 5 St. Pete can hire 2 scientists and work all sea food available. It might also be possible to let the northern fish city have one of the sea food with the intention of building a settler there as well. If this is feasible we could build one more settler in St. Pete, one in the fish city and two in Moscow.

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